Labelling Meat

[albrecht]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-18/wto-rejects-u-s-appeal-of-meat-labeling-in-canadian-win
And Obama wants fast-track and all these new secretive "trade" deals, this is one example of how they are a bad deal. No courts or international agencies should over-ride our laws. Why shouldn't consumers be allowed to know where their food comes from?

[136 or 142]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-18/wto-rejects-u-s-appeal-of-meat-labeling-in-canadian-win
And Obama wants fast-track and all these new secretive "trade" deals, this is one example of how they are a bad deal. No courts or international agencies should over-ride our laws. Why shouldn't consumers be allowed to know where their food comes from?

1.Maybe because meat is meat. (At least I guess so, I'm a vegetarian.) As far as I know, when it comes to regulations on meat, Canada and the U.S have virtually identical regulations.

2.Even with country of origin you wouldn't actually know as Canadian born and raised cattle is routinely sold to American ranchers and vice versa.

3.I agree that I'd prefer to see the courts decide these matters rather than these secretive panels, but while I'm no lawyer, given the wording of NAFTA there is no doubt in my mind that even a U.S court would have struck down these provisions as being anti the spirit of free trade and with no other basis other than to attempt to restrain trade.

[albrecht]

1.Maybe because meat is meat. (At least I guess so, I'm a vegetarian.) As far as I know, when it comes to regulations on meat, Canada and the U.S have virtually identical regulations.

2.Even with country of origin you wouldn't actually know as Canadian born and raised cattle is routinely sold to American ranchers and vice versa.

3.I agree that I'd prefer to see the courts decide these matters rather than these secretive panels, but while I'm no lawyer, given the wording of NAFTA there is no doubt in my mind that even a U.S court would have struck down these provisions as being anti the spirit of free trade and with no other basis other than to attempt to restrain trade.

1. meat is not meat. There are different breeds of animals, different feed, different butchering techniques, differing rules of drugs, etc. And it could simply me wanting to know what/who I'm buying from? (Maybe I WOULD rather support my local ranchers then give money to, say, Mexico?) Or maybe I think Canadian beef tastes better due to the climate or less anti-biotic use. Whatever.)

2. Sure and I recall the problems with BSE back then and various bans.

3. Maybe so but it should be up to the people and country's laws- not foreign, unelected people or organizations. I'm for free trade, which means voluntary, but not trade deals in which sovereignty is given up for it. Free trade is done between businesses and people, these secretive trade deals are ways to control people, profit large international corporations, and make jobs for lawyers and politicians.

[chinaclipper]

best beef in the world= Argentina/Uruguay. (also decent wines)

[albrecht]

best beef in the world= Argentina/Uruguay. (also decent wines)

Yeah, though it is more about how you cook it (less) I think. Plus beef from SA is not politically correct as it supports deforestation, corrupt regimes, and 1%ers due to their income disparity and large land holdings. I prefer my N.Korean beef, and ALWAYS leave the bark on, like one would due grilling salmon- if one actually did that and hurt the ecosystem with the warming and pollution from a grill and the depredation of the fish 

[136 or 142]

1. Maybe so but it should be up to the people and country's laws- not foreign, unelected people or organizations. I'm for free trade, which means voluntary, but not trade deals in which sovereignty is given up for it. Free trade is done between businesses and people, these secretive trade deals are ways to control people, profit large international corporations, and make jobs for lawyers and politicians.

There are a fair number of small business, especially internet businesses that engage in international trade.

[albrecht]

There are a fair number of small business, especially internet businesses that engage in international trade.

Good for them. Trade has been happening ever since we climbed down from trees. It doesn't need to entail secretive international agreements or organizations that over-ride hard fought-for progress for societies. Or punish the successful ones for the sake of "international agreement" or fairness. And, at least, in my country, the Senate should ratify and the public should know the details. The fast-track and secretiveness is enough for me to be against it. Despite what Obama or Republicans say.

[paladin1991]

Okay, what would we lable falkie?  Offal?

[ItsOver]

Make mine a midwestern prime porterhouse, medium rare, with sliced beefsteak tomatoes with roquefort, and lyonnaise potatoes.  That's my "happy meal."

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

...No courts or international agencies should over-ride our laws....

If that were true, there would be no purpose to any international agency as they would have no clout.  That would make it impossible to legislate basic standards of living and safety for world populations, and we would have to watch even more people everywhere subject to things such as child labour, rampant use of carcinogic sprays in crop production, and milk and grains cut with poisonous fillers.

[paladin1991]

Make mine a midwestern prime porterhouse, medium rare, with sliced beefsteak tomatoes with roquefort, and lyonnaise potatoes.  That's my "happy meal."

I'll have what you're having.

[albrecht]

If that were true, there would be no purpose to any international agency as they would have no clout.  That would make it impossible to legislate basic standards of living and safety for world populations, and we would have to watch even more people everywhere subject to things such as child labour, rampant use of carcinogic sprays in crop production, and milk and grains cut with poisonous fillers.

Sure. Assuming, that we would import or deal with those countries. Or that international organizations have any value except a facade of morality due to a consensus (even in coerced.) I sort of like whats-his-name Forbes that run a while back's idea of trade deals between decent countries. Let the others fail and block from trade there, and control immigration. Let the others sort out their mess and use military superiority and natural attrition, since they tend to like internecine conflicts and warfare, to deal with the others. Grow up and then you get trade. Harsh? Sure. But not as harsh as those countries deal with themselves on a daily basis. Let the fake "royals" deal with the Islam they promote. Let the communist Middle Kingdom deal with their bubbles and ethnic and class issues. Unfortunately our international organizations and crazy political correctness and guilt ideas have allowed others to gain power and technology that now backwards countries can be a threat. Thus ends the rant....

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Sure. Assuming, that we would import or deal with those countries. Or that international organizations have any value except a facade of morality due to a consensus (even in coerced.) I sort of like whats-his-name Forbes that run a while back's idea of trade deals between decent countries. Let the others fail and block from trade there, and control immigration. Let the others sort out their mess and use military superiority and natural attrition, since they tend to like internecine conflicts and warfare, to deal with the others. Grow up and then you get trade. Harsh? Sure. But not as harsh as those countries deal with themselves on a daily basis. Let the fake "royals" deal with the Islam they promote. Let the communist Middle Kingdom deal with their bubbles and ethnic and class issues. Unfortunately our international organizations and crazy political correctness and guilt ideas have allowed others to gain power and technology that now backwards countries can be a threat. Thus ends the rant....

I guess I just think American values like equality and the right of every individual to be able to seek basic living standards are a bunch of meaningless hot air unless we do what is within our ability to see that they are applied universally.  Part of that means being a good global citizen and respecting the laws and organizations we expect others to respect.

[onan]

Not to be trite... if anyone wants to be absolutely sure of the "quality" of meat they consume, they had best raise their own livestock and grow the feed as well. I am not usually a fatalist, but we haven't had control of our meat industry for decades. And it is due to the "free market" and the "free hand" of capitalism. We have antibiotics and hormones in our food chain due primarily to our insatiable desire for cheap hamburgers. Mcdonalds, in what I would guess was a good intention started buying only beef that had been given antibiotics. Americans alone consume more than a billion pounds of beef a year... just from Macdonald's. That kind of demand isn't going to be managed by any legislation. Policies being put into place are well meaning, but slow to be enforced. Whether corporations and or governments are evil or well meaning... meh. My suggestion, stop eating at Macdonalds. Get your burger fix at a local eatery... even then it will be decades if ever before a significant change in meat production takes place.

[Gd5150]

Just tell libtards McDonald's supports it and their heads will explode.

[VtaGeezer]

The other night I watched a little bit of that "River Monster" show with the Brit fisherman who chases killer and strange fish.  He was in Argentina, speaking with a local cattle "rancher" on a river bank. The guy's herd was scrawny as hell and there was a dead rotting steer on the river bank, half underwater, in the frame. 

We used to have an Argentinian couple as neighbors who extolled Argentinian beef every time we ate together.  Guess what mental image I'll have from now on when I hear "Argentine beef".

[chinaclipper]

lived in B.A. some years ago and then it was undeniably some of the best in the world.

[136 or 142]

Republican controlled House committee (Agriculture committee?) votes overwhelmingly and bipartisan 38-6 to repeal not only this law, but all country of labeling laws effecting all animals.  Bill sent to full U.S House.

One of the few times I agree with the Republicans.

[ksm32]

I am an accomplished chef. I can turn shit into ice cream. I don't care where its from.. I mean BEEF.

[albrecht]

Republican controlled House committee (Agriculture committee?) votes overwhelmingly and bipartisan 38-6 to repeal not only this law, but all country of labeling laws effecting all animals.  Bill sent to full U.S House.

One of the few times I agree with the Republicans.

I don't. Despite the politicians and unelected international tribunal's efforts I think the consumer should be able to know where their produce or meat comes from. Although, I could be ok with not having a law saying "it must", which is what, from what I can gather the unelected, international tribunal said, it should still be allowed to state 'country of origin' and/or methods. I wonder what would happen if the WTO, or any other unelected body, or even elected bodies, would go against the various Kosher labels ('tax' according to some theorists- but even if not really would be interesting?) Or maybe N.Korean could sue and demand that N.Korean 'beef' should be sold as such in our stores. Heck you can get some build-in tooth-picks from the tree bark and so the dentists group could claim some benefit for our gums. Certainly the fiber from that 'beef' is beneficial and should be sold along, or mixed into hamburgers, with ours?

[WOTR]

The fact of the matter is that nobody is disallowing labeling.  There is a store in town where I can buy beef tracked to a specific cow raised on a specific farm (and yes, you pay through the nose for that.)  This law concerns the forced labeling.

Also important to note is the fact that the US is not forced to remove the law.  The law can remain- but there will be a mechanism for Canada to impose tarrifs on US products to make up for the the amount of damage that the law causes Canadian industry.

You cannot decide that the the US can use the WTO to prevent dumping of commodities or prevent subsidized goods from harming the US economy while saying that you want to ignore any ruling that you may disagree with.

The WTO was set up to replace some other commission that had been in place since around WWII and is there to protect economies from dealing with dumping and laws that hurt free trade and go against agreements.  I believe that the NAFTA panel can overrule the WTO- but as this one has never been appealed with NAFTA, I am going to guess that it was considered a lost cause (I seem to recall several appeals to NAFTA after WTO rulings on the softwood lumber issue years ago.) Yes, there is a panel that rules on issues- but it rules based on international trade agreements.  Again, if a country dislikes the ruling they can appeal.  If they loose again, they can ignore the ruling and just pay the penalty...

If it is safety you worry about, the FDA exists for that.  There are rules that the packers, feedlots and slaughterhouses have to follow to meet US standards.  Canadian cows have been shipped south for many years to be processed.  When the BSE scare was on, the boarder closed.  This law was not about safety- forcing a slaughterhouse to identify each cow and keep ground beef separate and jump through hoops was stupid.

On the other hand- reduced US demand might lower the domestic price... I kind of wish the law would have stood...

Anyhow, if you want to know where your beef was raised, buy at a small market, buy from the farmer, or find a little shop who can tell you that they only buy from "Jim Smith" out of Dakota.

[136 or 142]

The WTO was set up to replace some other commission that had been in place since around WWII and is there to protect economies from dealing with dumping and laws that hurt free trade and go against agreements. 

It Replaced GATT. The General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade.

[SredniVashtar]

Congrats to the forum member who thought up this thread title. Both boring and oddly erotic at the same time.

[Unquenchable Angst]

don't label the meat and the hams from China could be long pork and hamburger could be anything. I rather like going to my local stores and I have a choice of regular, grass fed, organic certified , Angus. I like to be able to choose or I can also (in my area buy ) meats produced by the local Land Grant School (Clemson University).

[DanTSX]

The other night I watched a little bit of that "River Monster" show with the Brit fisherman who chases killer and strange fish.  He was in Argentina, speaking with a local cattle "rancher" on a river bank. The guy's herd was scrawny as hell and there was a dead rotting steer on the river bank, half underwater, in the frame. 

We used to have an Argentinian couple as neighbors who extolled Argentinian beef every time we ate together.  Guess what mental image I'll have from now on when I hear "Argentine beef".

Legitimate use of logic

[DanTSX]

Consumers should have a choice of what grade of meat they want to buy, and it's origin.

Consumers should be able to obtain information suited to making theor choices freely and easily.

Government should only be involved in ensuring the basic validity of origin, grade, and safe handling during distribution process.

Not sure what is broken in the system that this secret bill is trying to fix, but I don't think it's unreasonable not to trust it.

[WOTR]

It Replaced GATT. The General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade.

I missed this post.  Thanks, that was it.  I also should look for an interesting article on historical unintended consequences of some tariffs that I recall reading some time ago...

[akwilly]

Argantine beef is good becouse of how it's cooked. Other than that I won't eat meat from other countries. I don't trust that they have any food safety. A texas limosine cow is as good as you can get and you won't die of crazy south american diseases

[136 or 142]

Argantine beef is good becouse of how it's cooked. Other than that I won't eat meat from other countries. I don't trust that they have any food safety. A texas limosine cow is as good as you can get and you won't die of crazy south american diseases

Meat is murder, mmmkay.

[paladin1991]

Meat is murder, mmmkay.

Then maybe your bovine brothers should take up arms and defend themselves.

Whoops!

No opposable thumbs.  Guess it's back to the grill for your bros.