Flight 4U9525 Crash in Southern French Alps (Meolans-Revels)

[albrecht]

Airbus A320, 150 souls, was at cruising elevation (most occur in dissent or take-off), and a distress call was made. No speculation, officially, yet on what happened. Norry will mention because the dead include 2 babies on board. It was one of those "lower price" carriers, Germanwings, in this case an off-spring of Lufthansa.
Sucks and sort of scary because that type of plane is used all the time and those low cost carriers are very popular (I've flown to London less <$20USD before.)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/24/german-a320-airbus-plane-crashes-french-alps
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-latest-germanwings-says-plane-went-into-long-descent/ar-AA9Vt8E?ocid=mailsignout

[Eddie Coyle]

   Believed to be an eight minute descent from 38,000 to 6,000 feet before making contact with a mountain.

   I think being on a plane that simply was blown apart is far more desirable than this 480 seconds of torture.

   *Another form of torture is the coverage by the Ashleigh Banfield types who can relate and connect themselves to the story because she's not only been to Europe, but flown over it in a plane!

[Falkie2013]

Airbus A320, 150 souls, was at cruising elevation (most occur in dissent or take-off), and a distress call was made. No speculation, officially, yet on what happened. Norry will mention because the dead include 2 babies on board. It was one of those "lower price" carriers, Germanwings, in this case an off-spring of Lufthansa.
Sucks and sort of scary because that type of plane is used all the time and those low cost carriers are very popular (I've flown to London less <$20USD before.)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/24/german-a320-airbus-plane-crashes-french-alps
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-latest-germanwings-says-plane-went-into-long-descent/ar-AA9Vt8E?ocid=mailsignout

French authorities are saying no distress call was made & they have found the black box.
Just heard it on KFBK.

German authorities press conference here on Sky News.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2553193403001/#sp=watch-live

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/24/plane-reportedly-crashes-in-french-alps-with-at-least-142-people-on-board/




FRANCE - President Francois Hollande delivers a speech following the Germanwings crash


RAW FOOTAGE: Germanwings Airbus A320 4U 9525 PLANE CRASH SITE

[albrecht]

   Believed to be an eight minute descent from 38,000 to 6,000 feet before making contact with a mountain.

   I think being on a plane that simply was blown apart is far more desirable than this 480 seconds of torture.

   *Another form of torture is the coverage by the Ashleigh Banfield types who can relate and connect themselves to the story because she's not only been to Europe, but flown over it in a plane!

One of the good things was very cheap flights with companies like RyanAir, EasyJet, NorwegianAir, etc. It was awesome compared to the legacy country-based carriers with their high prices and fees. (Though they are really "bare bones" and nickle-and-dime you for everything and often fly to outlying airports.) I might be re-assessing this opinion based on the crash, depending on the findings.

[albrecht]

French authorities are saying no distress call was made & they have found the black box.
Just heard it on KFBK.

German authorities press conference here on Sky News.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2553193403001/#sp=watch-live

Yep. No distress call is now the official statement. ("never declared a distress alert itself" but the lack of radio comms and descent caused an alert to go out by control service.) I wonder what happened.

[Yorkshire pud]

One of the good things was very cheap flights with companies like RyanAir, EasyJet, NorwegianAir, etc. It was awesome compared to the legacy country-based carriers with their high prices and fees. (Though they are really "bare bones" and nickle-and-dime you for everything and often fly to outlying airports.) I might be re-assessing this opinion based on the crash, depending on the findings.

Ryanair although I would never fly with them have an excellent safety record. As do almost all European carriers cheap and expensive. Until the findings are revealed which may take weeks or months, it's too early to speculate, but I very much doubt it will be a cost/maintenance reason. I expect though pilot error. Due either to misreading instruments or poor airmanship. Modern airliners are ridiculously safe. The Airbus series particularly.

[albrecht]

Ryanair although I would never fly with them have an excellent safety record. As do almost all European carriers cheap and expensive. Until the findings are revealed which may take weeks or months, it's too early to speculate, but I very much doubt it will be a cost/maintenance reason. I expect though pilot error. Due either to misreading instruments or poor airmanship. Modern airliners are ridiculously safe. The Airbus series particularly.

I've had some rough landings with RyanAir and often can barely understand the pilot's foreign accent but they are cheap. But one feels like cattle being hustled to and fro to an abattoir. And they are very clever (or used to be) with their legalese about missing a flight, flight cancellations, initially (before people caught on) with dropping you off at some airport actually not really near your intended city, and moving departure terminal #'s so you'd miss a flight and have to pay again. And you are nickle and dimed to death. But for a short, quick trip for fun? Can't be beat.
I agree with you that we would've learned before this incident by earlier ones if that plane had serious problems because they are used frequently.

[Yorkshire pud]

I've had some rough landings with RyanAir and often can barely understand the pilot's foreign accent but they are cheap. But one feels like cattle being hustled to and fro to an abattoir. And they are very clever (or used to be) with their legalese about missing a flight, flight cancellations, initially (before people caught on) with dropping you off at some airport actually not really near your intended city, and moving departure terminal #'s so you'd miss a flight and have to pay again. And you are nickle and dimed to death. But for a short, quick trip for fun? Can't be beat.
I agree with you that we would've learned before this incident by earlier ones if that plane had serious problems because they are used frequently.

I think I'm correct Paddy air uses Boeing 737-400's. The reason I won't fly with them is because of O'Leary.  He's a rude arrogant shit and I would rather drive across Europe than give him the steam off my piss let alone money.

Not that I have any strong feelings about the twat.

[Nick el Ass]

Sad news, and why I think flying is for the birds. Btw, I'm thinking there is a good chance that Dave now has a new story for his next ghostwriter to work on... and the book will be titled something along the lines of Someone is hiding sometheen again.

[albrecht]

I think I'm correct Paddy air uses Boeing 737-400's. The reason I won't fly with them is because of O'Leary.  He's a rude arrogant shit and I would rather drive across Europe than give him the steam off my piss let alone money.

Not that I have any strong feelings about the twat.

Oh come on, you just have an anti-Irish bias . Those stunts (tank, costumes, etc) and comments he says are hilarious! And I've never flown anywhere cheaper (better to drink up before boarding to deal with the riff-raff and high$ for drinks though.)

[Yorkshire pud]

Oh come on, you just have an anti-Irish bias . Those stunts (tank, costumes, etc) and comments he says are hilarious! And I've never flown anywhere cheaper (better to drink up before boarding to deal with the riff-raff and high$ for drinks though.)

I think he gives the Irish a bad name.

[Up All Night]

Alps Plane Crash: Sky News Special Report

[Up All Night]

Could someone please clarify something for me, if they have knowledge of this:

After the flight reached altitude, it began descending, until it tragically crashed.

As the plane descended, and before it was lost on radar, did any air traffic controller (ATC) try and contact the flight?

And please.... do *not* respond by saying something like "I'd assume so". Not interested in assumptions on this question. Simply, did or did not ATC speak to the flight, as it descended.

IF you know something positive, please do respond.

[Up All Night]

From the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?_r=0

"The inquiry has been hampered further, an official said, by the discovery that the second black box, (the Flight Data Recorder) which was found on Wednesday, was severely damaged, and its memory card dislodged and missing."

The memory card was 'missing' or.... it was 'removed'.

There is a lot at stake for the multi-national stakeholders of Airbus.

As a matter National Economic Security, they may not want information from the FDR that could indicate a design flaw, to come to light.

[Yorkshire pud]

Could someone please clarify something for me, if they have knowledge of this:

After the flight reached altitude, it began descending, until it tragically crashed.

As the plane descended, and before it was lost on radar, did any air traffic controller (ATC) try and contact the flight?

And please.... do *not* respond by saying something like "I'd assume so". Not interested in assumptions on this question. Simply, did or did not ATC speak to the flight, as it descended.

IF you know something positive, please do respond.

Apparently (reported this morning on BBC) three minutes after it started descending ATC scrambled fighters to go have a look. Presumably (Not assuming) ATC had tried to contact the flight when they noted it's descent. When they didn't reply ATC will have gone into the procedure to go and take a look.

News on the radio had an investigator saying the voice recorder was inconclusive and it might take weeks or months to sort out what it says...

[Yorkshire pud]

From the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?_r=0

"The inquiry has been hampered further, an official said, by the discovery that the second black box, (the Flight Data Recorder) which was found on Wednesday, was severely damaged, and its memory card dislodged and missing."

The memory card was 'missing' or.... it was 'removed'.

There is a lot at stake for the multi-national stakeholders of Airbus.

As a matter National Economic Security, they may not want information from the FDR that could indicate a design flaw, to come to light.

How would they remove it? The FDR is sealed and the plane crashed into one of the most remote places in the Alps.. It's a bitch to reach, and helis can't land easily going by foot and road is impossible.

Design flaw? There are literally dozens of airlines operating this aeroplane every day.. landing and taking off millions of times a year. If there was a flaw that makes it drop from straight and level flight, it would be found by now and flagged up.

[bateman]

Germanwings Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before Crash

PARIS â€" As officials struggled Wednesday to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in.

A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

[3OctaveFart]

They all have codes to get into the flight deck door.
Depressurization might explain the lack of a distress signal.

[Lt.Uhura]

"The inquiry has been hampered further, an official said, by the discovery that the second black box, (the Flight Data Recorder) which was found on Wednesday, was severely damaged, and its memory card dislodged and missing."

Black box...Memory card!?

This recording technology seems so outdated for modern aviation.  It might be ok for a backup system, but isn't there current technology to send real-time cockpit voice recordings to a centralized computer?  Also, why aren't all planes equipped with GPS?

[Lt.Uhura]

I found an interesting article on my GPS question.

http://www.wired.com/2014/03/malaysia-air/

Coincidently pilot and aviation expert Bill Donaldson is Art's guest tonight on u7

[Faustina]

Now they are saying one pilot was locked out of the cockpit and couldn't get back in.  There is noise of him trying to on the recording that they managed to retrieve from the black box.

I bet the pilot inside the cockpit had a massive heart attack and was dead and couldn't let his co-pilot back in.

[Faustina]

   Believed to be an eight minute descent from 38,000 to 6,000 feet before making contact with a mountain.

   I think being on a plane that simply was blown apart is far more desirable than this 480 seconds of torture.

   *Another form of torture is the coverage by the Ashleigh Banfield types who can relate and connect themselves to the story because she's not only been to Europe, but flown over it in a plane!

Eight minutes of knowing you're probably going to die.  What a dreadful way to go. 

[Yorkshire pud]

Black box...Memory card!?

This recording technology seems so outdated for modern aviation.  It might be ok for a backup system, but isn't there current technology to send real-time cockpit voice recordings to a centralized computer?  Also, why aren't all planes equipped with GPS?

FDR's  work. They work well. They're hard wired into the aircraft so that they're reliable and don't lose data that would be lost by transmission to a remote computer. It's relatively simple doing it the first way; and fraught with problems the second.

[Catsmile]

                              Why Planes Vanish

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/why-planes-vanish.html

...  In the search for answers, we'll reveal how today's planes must fly through vast radar "blind spots," and investigate new technologies that could allow ground stations and satellites to track planes automatically, without pilot intervention, even in remote areas with no radar coverage. What will it take to guarantee that in the future, nothing will ever be 'lost' again?


Why Planes Vanish PBS Documentary on Flight MH370 (HD)

[George49]

A pilot locked out of the cockpit, this is probably what happened to the Malaysian plane, but on a grander scale.

Maybe the same people were behind this situation. But something went really askew.

[Up All Night]

They all have codes to get into the flight deck door.
Depressurization might explain the lack of a distress signal.

I believe they stated the sound of a sudden depressurization was not on the recording.

The code will get you back in, but only if the pilot inside has not locked the door (as in a "dead-bolt" type of locking, that cannot be unlocked from the outside, even with a code).

[Faustina]

It's too bad his body will be too mangled for a post-mortum.  Betcha anything he had a full on coronary and was dead or nearly so.

[Juan]

If the pilot in the cockpit were saying "I place my fate in the hands of Allah", would they tell us? See Egypt Air 990.

[Up All Night]

Pilots 'involved in violent struggle before crash'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/germanwings-plane-crash-live-updates-5401806


The investigation has now turned into a full-blown criminal enquiry today following revelations of a violent struggle on board, reports from France suggest.

Four specialists from Interpol have joined senior French detectives trying to work out why one of the pilots on the plane locked himself into the cockpit on Tuesday morning.

There were two airmen on board and they are said to have been fighting to open and close the cockpit door.

A chair is at one stage used to block the door, as the pilots shouted at each other in German, before the one outside ‘tried to smash the door down’.

Cockpit recordings recovered from the crash site indicated one of the seats was pushed back and the door opened and closed, followed by the sound of knocking on the flight, which had been on its way from Barcelona in Spain to Dusseldorf in Germany.

[Up All Night]

CBS NEWS:

French prosecutor Brice Robin said in Marseille on Thursday that the co-pilot, who has not yet been officially identified, requested control of the aircraft about 20 minutes into the flight. The pilot then left the cockpit, leaving the co-pilot in full control of the plane.

Then, according to Robin, the co-pilot "starts the descent of the plane." He said the co-pilot could only have taken the action "voluntarily," seemingly ruling out dysfunction of the Airbus' automated flight operations systems.

BBC: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32063587