George Knapp

[expat]

That being said, he's the closest thing to a true academic in the small world of ufology,

Oh no. That would be Richard Dolan.

[b_dubb]

I saw a documentary about Stanton Friedman that really changed my mind about him. I think it was called "Stanton Friedman Is Real".  Apparently the big draw to doing the UFO circuit was more money and praise from adoring fans.  And the credibility balloon did begin to vent and deflate.

[Uncle Duke]

For whatever reason, my "CC Witness" recorded only static instead of Knapp's interview with Lazar.  Anywhere I can listen to this show without having to join "C2C Insider"?

[area51drone]

For whatever reason, my "CC Witness" recorded only static instead of Knapp's interview with Lazar.  Anywhere I can listen to this show without having to join "C2C Insider"?

I smell a conspiracy here.. CJOB's archive is still down.  Gives you the first hour and that's it!

[paladin1991]

Haha, nice!  They cut it off a bit too fast, but still cool he played it.  One cool song from Knapp undoes like 10 lame ones from Noory.   

It's the power of 1.  Ask the numbers lady.

[albrecht]

For whatever reason, my "CC Witness" recorded only static instead of Knapp's interview with Lazar.  Anywhere I can listen to this show without having to join "C2C Insider"?

There is a torrent of the show up on the Pirate Bay site. (Use at your own discretion as I don't know the law and have no personal association with the site or whoever put up the torrent.) Also there might be one somewhere on YouTube by now.

[Nebraska888]

Loved the program with Lazar last night........

[BattyBrooke]

Did Knapp hint a special guest will join in later tonight?
Perhaps Lazar's buddy John Lear?

They mentioned during the show lastnight Lear wouldn't be calling in because he is, and has been, battling some sort of illness. Does anyone know what it is?

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Believe it or not, I almost posted the same comment.  It's a pet peeve of mine since pretty much every time someone gives a google hits stat on a phrase, they've neglected the quotes. 

An an example of why it matters, if I search for "hot dog" without the quotes, I may get a result that says "On a hot day I took my dog to the beach."

I was afraid it was coming off too nitpicky but I knew we wouldn't let Noory get away with something like that.  Or maybe we would because it would be the least of his gaffs.  Thanks for the back-up my squirrel. 

Just to further hit the point home, when I type Area 51 without quotes I get 707 million results but when I only type area I get 505 million.  With 51 I get about 1 million.  You would think they would at least add up to the original 707 million.

[area51drone]

I was afraid it was coming off too nitpicky but I knew we wouldn't let Noory get away with something like that.  Or maybe we would because it would be the least of his gaffs.  Thanks for the back-up my squirrel. 

Just to further hit the point home, when I type Area 51 without quotes I get 707 million results but when I only type area I get 505 million.  With 51 I get about 1 million.  You would think they would at least add up to the original 707 million.

You guys are intentionally missing the point of that comment.   Maybe his methodology was flawed, but he is still accurate that you get a lot more search results for "Area 51" than "Fort Knox". 

[b_dubb]

.. more results ... all garbage ...

[WOTR]

For whatever reason, my "CC Witness" recorded only static instead of Knapp's interview with Lazar.  Anywhere I can listen to this show without having to join "C2C Insider"?

Sent a PM... I will not post it because I doubt that the archive is supposed to allow access to past Coast shows, and you can almost bet that Tommee would be alerting the lawyers for a cease and desist letter...

[zeebo]

I was afraid it was coming off too nitpicky but I knew we wouldn't let Noory get away with something like that. ...

No worries, Knapp's a pro, he can take a hit.  Unlike Noory, who's more like the Pillsbury Doughboy and gets all bent out of shape if someone pokes him even slightly.

While Noory's singing lame doo-wap karaoke songs at the turkee sammich lounge, Knapp's out on a black ops surveilance mission fending off nefarious gov't agents and wild coyotes.

[albrecht]

They mentioned during the show lastnight Lear wouldn't be calling in because he is, and has been, battling some sort of illness. Does anyone know what it is?

Mental?  Kidding, I hope he is doing ok and has no health problems and it is simply, "a home moving problem" like with Hoagland, whose recent, conspicuous absence from C2C was explained as that the other night.

I would like to hear more of the men who visited Knapp, and others, back in the day. Too bad he didn't film any of the encounters of being followed, harassed, interviewed, etc.

[zeebo]

You guys are intentionally missing the point of that comment.   Maybe his methodology was flawed, but he is still accurate that you get a lot more search results for "Area 51" than "Fort Knox".

Yeah the search comparison is iffy but the observation is probably true anyway.  It just makes sense since there's gotta be more cultural interest in alien conspiracies than stodgy gold vaults.

[WOTR]

I was afraid it was coming off too nitpicky but I knew we wouldn't let Noory get away with something like that.  Or maybe we would because it would be the least of his gaffs. 

You can add me to those who agree with you.  While it is not the end of the world, (and his point that there are lots of references to area 51 still holds true) the analysis is very wrong.  I suspect that he is of the generation who can use the internet, but may not have all of the fine points of using a search tool worked out.  I doubt it was done purposely.

Good catch.  I heard the numbers when he gave them and thought they sounded a little "off" but was not close enough to a computer to check.

[DanTSX]

Yeah the search comparison is iffy but the observation is probably true anyway.  It just makes sense since there's gotta be more cultural interest in alien conspiracies than stodgy gold vaults.

Maybe they are hiding the aliens in fort knox now that the gold is all gone to china.

[smitty9999]

Coast To Coast AM - November 23, 2014 Area 51 Update

[Uncle Duke]

Thanks to those who PM'd sources for last night's show. 

Listened to the program, the same old, same old.  Once again Lazar had to have an on-air mouth piece to help keep his story straight.  On the plus side, while Huff clearly isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, at least he's not bat-shit crazy like Lear.  Disappointing was the very limited time left at the end of the show for only a few screened, softball questions from the audience.

Most interesting thing to come out of this show was the answer to the question I asked here a few weeks back........why would/did Lazar agree to do this show if he wanted to put all this behind him?  Answer--Huff and he (and Knapp) are appearing at a UFO conference in a few months.  I'm betting the three of them are going to pocket a fair amount of coin for their appearances. 

[area51drone]

I disagree with you Duke.   I found Lazar's story to be as believable as ever.   Even more details filled in by Knapp and more supporting evidence. 

[b_dubb]

<sarcasm>I disagree with you Duke.   I found Lazar's story to be as believable as ever.   Even more details filled in by Knapp and more supporting evidence.</sarcasm>

Fixed?

[Uncle Duke]

I disagree with you Duke.   I found Lazar's story to be as believable as ever.   Even more details filled in by Knapp and more supporting evidence.

Such as?

How sad is it a guest's on-air handler has to make a preemptive "if he screws up his story, don't let it bother you....that's just Bob" comment early in the program?

Aside from the fact Lazar again couldn't keep his story straight without prompts from his handler and a friendly interviewer, the guy said things that were at best contradictory, at worst just plain goofy.  For example, he talked about how overly restrictive and compartmentalized security was at S4, but then said all nine hanger bays were wide open so he could and did clearly see all nine craft despite not being accessed to eight of them. 

Relatively early in the show, George said something about being sent some Google Earth views of S4 that could show the in-the-mountain hangers Lazar talks about.  Was that something he intended to post on either the C2C and/or new Lazar site he mentioned a couple times?  I wondered if they were sent by the same guy who sent Jimmy Church the Google Earth photos of the undersea base?

[area51drone]

Such as?

How sad is it a guest's on-air handler has to make a preemptive "if he screws up his story, don't let it bother you....that's just Bob" comment early in the program?

Aside from the fact Lazar again couldn't keep his story straight without prompts from his handler and a friendly interviewer, the guy said things that were at best contradictory, at worst just plain goofy.  For example, he talked about how overly restrictive and compartmentalized security was at S4, but then said all nine hanger bays were wide open so he could and did clearly see all nine craft despite not being accessed to eight of them. 

Relatively early in the show, George said something about being sent some Google Earth views of S4 that could show the in-the-mountain hangers Lazar talks about.  Was that something he intended to post on either the C2C and/or new Lazar site he mentioned a couple times?  I wondered if they were sent by the same guy who sent Jimmy Church the Google Earth photos of the undersea base?

I posted that video here on bellgab during the show, and it's also on the C2C website.   Its kind of weak, IMO, but I also linked to very very old BobLazar.com website which is no longer around.   A long time I ago, I looked at Google earth, and I myself found odd circular areas just around where those hangars supposedly are.   There was what appeared to be a dirt road, leading very close to that hillside and turning back around in a large loop, like a bus would take.   

As for the security at S4, Bob has said all along that he was able to see all 9 craft, but he was only able to work on one of them.

As far as the additional evidence, Knapp mentioned a few things about his background checks and that he personally saw the supposed Element 115.  The background check stuff..  some guy's name Bob gave Knapp early on that Knapp followed up on and sure enough the guy did just that in some department that wasn't well known.   There were also comments about the aftermath and the phone tapping stuff that wasn't revealed previously.    Also, I either I forgot or wasn't aware, but Bob did go through numerous lie detector tests, one of which sided with him, one of them against him and two inconclusive if I recall.   Either way, the fact that he did agree to do some lie detector tests and passed or was inconclusive 3/4 times lends credibility to the story as well.

Another unrelated comment...

I have heard the candle story before, but I recall our discussion in the astronomy/cosmology thread here about black holes - that someone entering the event horizon would freeze and just slowly fade away.  That supports Bob's view of the candle, even though he was puzzled about the photons leaving the "frozen" location.  I would have liked to hear someone question him more on that, but my guess is he just saw what he saw for a brief amount of time and wouldn't be able to answer anyway.   It is possible that the candle flame wasn't completely frozen, but time was moving extremely slow such that it was still emitting photons and yet changes to the flame could not be detected visually.    I think from what we're told by physicists that his candle story seems very plausible.

[Uncle Duke]

I posted that video here on bellgab during the show, and it's also on the C2C website.   Its kind of weak, IMO, but I also linked to very very old BobLazar.com website which is no longer around.   A long time I ago, I looked at Google earth, and I myself found odd circular areas just around where those hangars supposedly are.   There was what appeared to be a dirt road, leading very close to that hillside and turning back around in a large loop, like a bus would take.   

As for the security at S4, Bob has said all along that he was able to see all 9 craft, but he was only able to work on one of them.

As far as the additional evidence, Knapp mentioned a few things about his background checks and that he personally saw the supposed Element 115.  The background check stuff..  some guy's name Bob gave Knapp early on that Knapp followed up on and sure enough the guy did just that in some department that wasn't well known.   There were also comments about the aftermath and the phone tapping stuff that wasn't revealed previously.    Also, I either I forgot or wasn't aware, but Bob did go through numerous lie detector tests, one of which sided with him, one of them against him and two inconclusive if I recall.   Either way, the fact that he did agree to do some lie detector tests and passed or was inconclusive 3/4 times lends credibility to the story as well.

Another unrelated comment...

I have heard the candle story before, but I recall our discussion in the astronomy/cosmology thread here about black holes - that someone entering the event horizon would freeze and just slowly fade away.  That supports Bob's view of the candle, even though he was puzzled about the photons leaving the "frozen" location.  I would have liked to hear someone question him more on that, but my guess is he just saw what he saw for a brief amount of time and wouldn't be able to answer anyway.   It is possible that the candle flame wasn't completely frozen, but time was moving extremely slow such that it was still emitting photons and yet changes to the flame could not be detected visually.    I think from what we're told by physicists that his candle story seems very plausible.

I've made the point before, but "supporting evidence" such as you've sited may sound dramatic and convincing to those with no experience in the DoD and/or black programs, but is everyday stuff to those of us with that background.  For example:

1)  The fact Lazar knew the name and agency of a security clearance background investigator means nothing.  He could have met the investigator while being interviewed for a clearance at Los Alamos, or simply had the guy knock on his door seeking information on a neighbor he didn't even know who was undergoing a security screening.  Regardless of whether they are talking to you about your own clearance or that of a friend/colleague/neighbor, they must present credentials showing their name and agency before the interview starts.  Also not impressed Lazar or Knapp was unfamiliar with the agency in question.  I worked for the DoD for a very long time and routinely was introduced to and/or worked with organizations (both within and outside the DoD) I didn't know existed until I had a need to know about or work with them.

2) I have no problem believing the part about phone tapping and surveillance by security types. Knapp was talking on TV about a classified facility where at the time testing of the most significant advancement in military technology (low observables) since the A-bomb was on going. If we believe Knapp/Lazar that Soviet spies were active in the area at the time, and that would not surprise me, all the more reason to want to find out with whom and to whom Knapp was talking to and exchanging information.  That confirms only a concern on the part of security people about Area 51 being compromised, but nothing necessarily about alien craft and Lazar's claims.

3) The point wasn't that Lazar has said all along he got to see all the craft, it was that he claims he got to see craft for which he, within the context of his story, admits he was not in-briefed. Not only does this contradict his comments about the rigid departmentalization of the individual craft, but makes no sense from a real world program security standpoint.  To illustrate the point, consider the various a/c that were being flown at A51 in the mid/late 80s.  Sequestering those not accessed to a specific a/c during ground/flight testing of that a/c was standard procedure until the a/c was buttoned back up in its secure facility.  There is no practical reason to think such a procedure would not have been followed if the facility/craft Lazar claims to have knowledge of did exist.

I don't claim to know much about lie detectors, but I do know lie detector testing is not black/white like matching DNA or fingerprints.  It is only as good as the individual administering the process and analyzing the results.  For that reason, the hodge podge of test results for Lazar, if true, is not surprising.  Going 1-1-2 in four tests isn't that impressive to me in any event. It would be interesting to see the test results however, especially to see if any of the test analysts thought Lazar was being deceptive in his answers. From what I've read, attempting to be deceptive during a lie detector test is a common cause of the results being deemed inconclusive. 

To me, Knapp's claim to have seen a stolen piece of "element 115" was the only really significant aspect of last night's interview.  What he saw, and I'll taken him at his word he saw something, we'll never know.  I think we can agree, however, whatever it was was unique and unknown to Knapp other than what he was told it was. Had he been told it was Illudium PU-36, that's what he would have reported.  Similarly, I don't think Knapp would have had the education or background to make an informed judgement of what he saw or was told he was looking at.  It's also unclear to me what, if any, unusual properties Knapp witnessed relative to the piece.  Bottom line, I'd consider this part of the story to be a data point of unknown significance as opposed to supporting evidence.

[albrecht]

I don't claim to know much about lie detectors, but I do know lie detector testing is not black/white like matching DNA or fingerprints.  It is only as good as the individual administering the process and analyzing the results.  For that reason, the hodge podge of test results for Lazar, if true, is not surprising.  Going 1-1-2 in four tests isn't that impressive to me in any event. It would be interesting to see the test results however, especially to see if any of the test analysts thought Lazar was being deceptive in his answers. From what I've read, attempting to be deceptive during a lie detector test is a common cause of the results being deemed inconclusive. 

On that subject:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20141115/16013429160/feds-indict-another-person-teaching-people-how-to-beat-polygraph-tests.shtml

[Uncle Duke]

On that subject:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20141115/16013429160/feds-indict-another-person-teaching-people-how-to-beat-polygraph-tests.shtml

Good article, thanks.  I wonder if the order of multiple testing/results is significant?  If we assume Lazar was 1-1-2 in four tests, but the order of result were 1) fail, 2) inconclusive, 3) inconclusive, 4) pass, how would that be viewed?  Is it possible with each test he got more comfortable and/or got better at gaming the results?  Other variables to be considered of course, but still a fair question I think.

[albrecht]

Good article, thanks.  I wonder if the order of multiple testing/results is significant?  If we assume Lazar was 1-1-2 in four tests, but the order of result were 1) fail, 2) inconclusive, 3) inconclusive, 4) pass, how would that be viewed?  Is it possible with each test he got more comfortable and/or got better at gaming the results?  Other variables to be considered of course, but still a fair question I think.

I knew someone who was applying for a position with an agency to remain unnamed. Got through the whole CV, job experience stuff, and background check with FBI interviewing family, neighbors, etc. But failed the poly. Examiner questioned if he took drugs, practiced, etc beforehand. (He didn't.) Basically his "levels" were flat-line to questions- even questions to determine the base-line. So, basically, the poly had no practical use because the "known lie" base-line questions were same as "known true" questions. The guy was a nerdy mathematics guy who was sort of socially awkward, so maybe touch of autism? But it was interesting. (He ended up going private company route anyway.)

[zeebo]

...How sad is it a guest's on-air handler has to make a preemptive "if he screws up his story, don't let it bother you....that's just Bob" comment early in the program?

I really enjoyed the show and I'm still open to the whole story, but I did have one of those head-tilt moments when Lazar said something like "I'm just one of those people who isn't great at remembering things." 

[b_dubb]

Bob Lazar done PT Barnum proud

[Nebraska888]

I really enjoyed the show and I'm still open to the whole story, but I did have one of those head-tilt moments when Lazar said something like "I'm just one of those people who isn't great at remembering things." 

Yep, that bothered me too.