Cuba

[PB the Deplorable]

Well, what did you expect when you chose to live in Berkeley, the spiritual center of the extreme fringe Left?  It sounds like you've been there so long surrounded and greatly outnumbered by your perceived enemies that you think everyone in the country who is to your left is in lockstep with them.  That just ain't the case, Sunshine, and you seem to be equating the loud noises a few people in your little part of the country make with a terrible power and influence they clearly don't have in any kind of measure.  Maybe you should try living in a place like Nebraska or Indiana for awhile to get a different perspective.

You also need to put down the crack pipe if you're seeing endless parades of Leftists making pilgrimages to Cuba to kiss Fidel's ring.  That's pure fantasy.

I'm glad you understand that there is an 'extreme Left'.  You are the first non-'right-winger' I've ever heard admit that.

So I guess there is one set of actions and beliefs that make a person an extreme Leftist, and a completely different and unrelated set of actions and beliefs that make a person a regular Leftist?


Gee, I wish I'd written down every nut who's been to see Castro, and praise him - mostly from Hollywood or Congress.  And Hugo Chavez.  I didn't realize I'd be called on one day to present the list.  Of course you realize the term 'never ending parade' was a figure of speech.  I guess it depends on one's definition of a 'parade'. 

Clearly as a hero of the Left and a famous person with an island prison to run, someone like Castro isn't going to be available to see just any commoner who shows up.  I personally know someone who goes down there annually to innocently 'string pianos', who then returns to spread the joy of La Revolution.  Being a peon, he doesn't get an audience with Fidel, but I imagine he'd certainly like one.  In real life he sounds almost exactly like NowhereInTime here at Bellgab

Are you really claiming to be unaware of the Jane Fonda types who visit Fidel?  You haven't been on the receiving end of propaganda about how great the educations and medical systems in Cuba are, then the unfavorable comparison to our systems here the US?  No?   

The truth is this has been going on a very long time.  Walter Duranty was a Left-wing New York Times 'journalist' stationed in Moscow during the 20s and 30s, serving as an apologist for Stalin.  Even the NYT has called his articles some of the worst writing to appear in their newspaper.  And this will be of interest of some here who attribute truth and value these things:  he won a Pulitzer Prize

Then there were people like Edgar Snow who did much the same on behalf of Mao's China

Same with Malcolm Caldwell for Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.  Even Noam Chomsky helped with the propaganda and denial


I could go on, but I'm not going to convince those who have spent their entire lives under the impression those who lead Leftist thought are simply well meaning folks trying to help the poor of anything different

[NowhereInTime]

You are remarkably gullible for Left-wing crap.  Try questioning some of it sometime


Yeah, where would anyone get that idea

From you and other bitter, selfish people who feel it's important to have station and class.

[NowhereInTime]

In fact Brittan itself is not speaking German today due to our military intervention and support.

I think you historically underestimated the resources of the British Empire, the achievement in cracking Enigma, and the resolve of the British people.


Plus, you overestimated the military prowess of a Wehrmacht led by an Austrian economist paperhanging conservative.


Our intervention via lend lease sustained the war effort for the British Army, but the Germans had already lost the air war before our first soldier hit the beaches in North Africa.


But, as you've demonstrated time and again, neither history nor truth factor much into your narrative.

[NowhereInTime]

Gee, I wish I'd written down every nut who's been to see Castro, and praise him - mostly from Hollywood or Congress.  And Hugo Chavez.

Why don't you google it, if its such an impressive list? Oh, because it really isn't.

I didn't realize I'd be called on one day to present the list.  Of course you realize the term 'never ending parade' was a figure of speech.  I guess it depends on one's definition of a 'parade'.

In your case, exceptionally overblown hyperbole to try to score a point.

Clearly as a hero of the Left and a famous person with an island prison to run, someone like Castro isn't going to be available to see just any commoner who shows up.

You really have no clue what you're talking about.  "hero of the Left"?  Get a grip.

I personally know someone who goes down there annually to innocently 'string pianos', who then returns to spread the joy of La Revolution.  Being a peon, he doesn't get an audience with Fidel, but I imagine he'd certainly like one.  In real life he sounds almost exactly like NowhereInTime here at Bellgab

You mean intelligent, insightful, articulate, and factually correct?  I am humbled by your generosity.

Are you really claiming to be unaware of the Jane Fonda types who visit Fidel?

You are claiming there are but not naming one name.

You haven't been on the receiving end of propaganda about how great the educations and medical systems in Cuba are, then the unfavorable comparison to our systems here the US?  No?

You mean where they treat people's illnesses but don't bankrupt them for it?  MONSTERS!   

The truth is this has been going on a very long time.  Walter Duranty was a Left-wing New York Times 'journalist' stationed in Moscow during the 20s and 30s, serving as an apologist for Stalin.  Even the NYT has called his articles some of the worst writing to appear in their newspaper.  And this will be of interest of some here who attribute truth and value these things:  he won a Pulitzer Prize

....  Let's all pause while Uncle Papes finishes his gin and tonic fueled stories...

Then there were people like Edgar Snow who did much the same on behalf of Mao's China

Same with Malcolm Caldwell for Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.  Even Noam Chomsky helped with the propaganda and denial

And there it is:  CHOMSKY !!

I could go on, but I'm not going to convince those who have spent their entire lives under the impression those who lead Leftist thought are simply well meaning folks trying to help the poor of anything different

Yet they are. 


You conflate them with opportunists like Castro or Mao who are corrupted with power, like good little conservatives.  They wear a mask of freedom and justice, by they are really wolves in sheeps' clothing; dwon deep they are selfish, "self-interested" dirtbags who love to control other peoples' futures.  You know, like conservatives.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

I'm glad you understand that there is an 'extreme Left'.  You are the first non-'right-winger' I've ever heard admit that.

So I guess there is one set of actions and beliefs that make a person an extreme Leftist, and a completely different and unrelated set of actions and beliefs that make a person a regular Leftist?

It's called nuance, and you seem to live in a world of eternal absolutes where it doesn't exist.  Most people don't fit into tidy political categories no matter how much you may wish for that to be true.

Gee, I wish I'd written down every nut who's been to see Castro, and praise him - mostly from Hollywood or Congress.  And Hugo Chavez.  I didn't realize I'd be called on one day to present the list.  Of course you realize the term 'never ending parade' was a figure of speech.  I guess it depends on one's definition of a 'parade'. 

Clearly as a hero of the Left and a famous person with an island prison to run, someone like Castro isn't going to be available to see just any commoner who shows up.  I personally know someone who goes down there annually to innocently 'string pianos', who then returns to spread the joy of La Revolution.  Being a peon, he doesn't get an audience with Fidel, but I imagine he'd certainly like one.  In real life he sounds almost exactly like NowhereInTime here at Bellgab

Are you really claiming to be unaware of the Jane Fonda types who visit Fidel?  You haven't been on the receiving end of propaganda about how great the educations and medical systems in Cuba are, then the unfavorable comparison to our systems here the US?  No?   

The truth is this has been going on a very long time.  Walter Duranty was a Left-wing New York Times 'journalist' stationed in Moscow during the 20s and 30s, serving as an apologist for Stalin.  Even the NYT has called his articles some of the worst writing to appear in their newspaper.  And this will be of interest of some here who attribute truth and value these things:  he won a Pulitzer Prize

Then there were people like Edgar Snow who did much the same on behalf of Mao's China

Same with Malcolm Caldwell for Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.  Even Noam Chomsky helped with the propaganda and denial


I could go on, but I'm not going to convince those who have spent their entire lives under the impression those who lead Leftist thought are simply well meaning folks trying to help the poor of anything different

You certainly know how to extrapolate with the best of them.  You excel at cherry picking a handful of dupes, extremist nitwits, and people you don't like and then portraying them as being representative of an imaginary movement of millions who think just like they do.  Again, you greatly exaggerate the power and influence these people have over those on the so-called Left.  There are very few people in this country who sincerely want destroy it, or who admire dictators and totalitarian societies, and even fewer who will ever do anything more than just talk about it or stage a rally here and there.  Again, don't mistake noise for power and influence.  Your enemies are not ubiquitous or anywhere nearly as numerous as you seem to fear.  Happy Pancake!

[PB the Deplorable]

... You mean intelligent, insightful, articulate, and factually correct?...

No

...  They wear a mask of freedom and justice, by they are really wolves in sheeps' clothing; dwon deep they are selfish, "self-interested" dirtbags who love to control other peoples' futures...

So you DO understand the Left.  I knew it!

[PB the Deplorable]

... a handful of dupes, extremist nitwits, and people you don't like and then portraying them as being representative of an imaginary movement of millions who think just like they do.  Again, you greatly exaggerate the power and influence these people have over those on the so-called Left.  There are very few people in this country who sincerely want destroy it, or who admire dictators and totalitarian societies, and even fewer who will ever do anything more than just talk about it or stage a rally here and there.  Again, don't mistake noise for power and influence.  Your enemies are not ubiquitous or anywhere nearly as numerous as you seem to fear.  Happy Pancake!

I do realize that the hard-core-Leftist-America-haters are a small percentage of the population, and that the rank and file people who self identify as being on the Left don't actually agree with them on their true (intentionally hidden) ideals.  As I mentioned before, most claiming to be on the Left have been duped

... Again, you greatly exaggerate the power and influence these people have over those on the so-called Left...

There lies the problem.  Because of the number of followers they have, because they've been able to infiltrate and control too many of our organizations and even the Democrat Party, they do have power and influence. 

One of them even managed to get elected President.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

I do realize that the hard-core-Leftist-America-haters are a small percentage of the population, and that the rank and file people who self identify as being on the Left don't actually agree with them on their true (intentionally hidden) ideals.  As I mentioned before, most claiming to be on the Left have been duped


There lies the problem.  Because of the number of followers they have, because they've been able to infiltrate and control too many of our organizations and even the Democrat Party, they do have power and influence. 

One of them even managed to get elected President.

Don't forget to check under the bed and in the closets before retiring.

[NowhereInTime]

So you DO understand the Left.  I knew it!

Laughing Idiot Deepak tilli

[paladin1991]

The only reason the U.S. invaded Grenada was to distract attention from the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut that resulted in the deaths of 241 U.S. military personnel who Reagan had sent there as "peacekeepers" without giving them a clearly defined mission.  It was not a coincidence that it took place two days later, nor did the OAS call for it.  The leaders of a few tiny Caribbean nations were pressured into requesting the invasion in much the same way much of the Iraq invasion's "Coalition of the Willing" was cobbled together by the Bush administration through a combination of brow beating and bribery, such as admission to NATO.  The OAS was sharply divided over Grenada, and Margaret Thatcher was furious at Reagan for invading a Commonwealth country without notifying her.  Also, since there was no time to plan the invasion, a lot of the operation wound up being a big mess, but don't take my word for it.  General Norman Schwarzkopf, who was one of the commanders, was especially harsh in his assessment of the action.

I concurr.  As my first time abroad, there was a bit of 'hurry the fuck up we'll worry about it later.'   But as a newly minted Lance Corporal, my opinion was not requested.

As for Maggie being a bit bothered.  Well, I'm not sure the British 'Empire' has been particularly relevant for say the, ooooh, last century.  Why should we ask them anything?  Don't we just tell them what to do now?  "We are going to invade another soverign nation.  Saddle up, Tommy Atkins, you're going with us."

[paladin1991]

I think you historically underestimated the resources of the British Empire, the achievement in cracking Enigma, and the resolve of the British people.

I read that some Polish folk were instrumental in jumpstarting if not creating the British efforts in cracking enigma.

[NowhereInTime]

I read that some Polish folk were instrumental in jumpstarting if not creating the British efforts in cracking enigma.

Wouldn't dispute it.  The Poles fought fiercely in exile.  Everyone discredits them because they were overrun so quickly and had primitive equipment.  Not fair; having the Soviets and Nazis carve you up.
Thank you for the insight - I need to read up on this.

[paladin1991]

Wouldn't dispute it.  The Poles fought fiercely in exile.  Everyone discredits them because they were overrun so quickly and had primitive equipment.  Not fair; having the Soviets and Nazis carve you up.
Thank you for the insight - I need to read up on this.

Roger that, NIT. 

[albrecht]

Wouldn't dispute it.  The Poles fought fiercely in exile.  Everyone discredits them because they were overrun so quickly and had primitive equipment.  Not fair; having the Soviets and Nazis carve you up.
Thank you for the insight - I need to read up on this.

Tragic location and often caught between empires and tyrants. Lest we forget that Poland saved Europe from Muslims way back in 1683.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

  I concurr.  As my first time abroad, there was a bit of 'hurry the fuck up we'll worry about it later.'   But as a newly minted Lance Corporal, my opinion was not requested.

As for Maggie being a bit bothered.  Well, I'm not sure the British 'Empire' has been particularly relevant for say the, ooooh, last century.  Why should we ask them anything?  Don't we just tell them what to do now?  "We are going to invade another soverign nation.  Saddle up, Tommy Atkins, you're going with us."

I saw an interview with a Ranger who said they didn't even have accurate maps and showed the one he'd been given.  It was a cartoon map drawn nowhere close to scale that mostly showed tourist attractions.  Did you get stuck with one of those?

And while the British Empire is no longer relevant, she and Reagan were BFFs at the time and seemed to lust after each other, so it must have really stung when he went behind her back.  Seems like she got over it, though.

[Yorkshire pud]

Wouldn't dispute it.  The Poles fought fiercely in exile.  Everyone discredits them because they were overrun so quickly and had primitive equipment.  Not fair; having the Soviets and Nazis carve you up.
Thank you for the insight - I need to read up on this.

Three Polish scientists broke the initial Enigma code using brute force, and in utmost secrecy passed on their findings to the British and French security services. In the UK, Churchill got very very worried that the Germans were making a lead on intelligence gathering and we weren't. The inspirationally named; Code and Cipher school was set up in London, and tasked with finding the most brilliant mathematicians from Oxbridge, cross word experts, and other disparate experts who would establish the goings on at Bletchley Park. Through the war, over 10000 people worked there, and not one spoke about it. Churchill described them as the Golden Geese who didn't cluck. Historians claim their work shortened the war by at least two years, some claim as many as seven. If you ever find yourself in the UK, head for Milton Keynes and Bletchley Park, it's well worth the day out.


It's worth remembering most of the personnel were under 25, many only teenagers. It was also instrumental in changing attitudes towards women in the workplace; women at Bletchley were treated as equals. Women leaving university then weren't allowed honorary degrees because they were female! Unthinkable now.

[Catsmile]

Speaking of code cracking & Enigma herez a pair of hours on the subject.


(1/12) World War II Mind of a Code Breaker

[Kelt]

None of this sound historically accurate.


From what I've gathered, Enigma was captured by a team of highly motivated Americans, featuring the voice talents of Jon Bon Jovi God Bless America.


Same with D-Day.  All Americans.

[NowhereInTime]

None of this sound historically accurate.


From what I've gathered, Enigma was captured by a team of highly motivated Americans, featuring the voice talents of Jon Bon Jovi God Bless America.


Same with D-Day.  All Americans.

At least he didn't buy the Buffalo Bills and move them to Toronto.

[Yorkshire pud]

None of this sound historically accurate.


From what I've gathered, Enigma was captured by a team of highly motivated Americans, featuring the voice talents of Jon Bon Jovi God Bless America.


Same with D-Day.  All Americans.

That was the German navy Enigma- four rotors rather than the standard three. Rescued by Tommy Brown as the U boat was sinking (having just been depth charged by his ship). He was sent home when it was discovered he had lied about his age ( was 15)..but re enlisted when he turned 16.

The film made about this event was shameful Hollywood bullshit.

[Kelt]

Regardless... does this mean I can now legally travel; to Cuba, smoke their cigars, charm their wimminfolks, and drink... whatever the fuck it is those Commie bastards throw down their necks to forget what a filthy shithole their island is?


Can i do that?

[Yorkshire pud]

Regardless... does this mean I can now legally travel; to Cuba, smoke their cigars, charm their wimminfolks, and drink... whatever the fuck it is those Commie bastards throw down their necks to forget what a filthy shithole their island is?


Can i do that?

Yes. Pina Colada's by the pint. (Imperial pint, naturally)

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Regardless... does this mean I can now legally travel; to Cuba, smoke their cigars, charm their wimminfolks, and drink... whatever the fuck it is those Commie bastards throw down their necks to forget what a filthy shithole their island is?


Can i do that?

Bring bars of soap.  You can use them for barter or as gratuities.  My brother and his wife went a couple of years ago and were advised to do that.  You can also just hang around the beach resorts and never be aware of the poverty faced by the average Cuban.

[paladin1991]

Gee Georgie, why would you go anywhere else than the resorts?  the rest of the country is smelly.

[DanTSX]

Breaking the enigma code is a very interesting topic, as was far more important to modern computing than most people realize. 


Back to Cuba.  I'm hoping that at least for a brief period, tourism to US tourism to Cuba highlights how inefficient and damaging a planned economy can be to an otherwise beautiful nation with a cultured and educated people.  Of course the know-it-all liberals will blame any command economy failure on Yankee doodle imperialism, even if the Cuban citizens are brave enough to relay their experiences.


But it will probably end up like Jamaica or Cancun, and we can marvel at how nice it is (within the confines of the contained, walled-in resort areas.)