Grand Jury decision in "Gentle Giant" or "Thug" police killing made.

[albrecht]

I am going to have to disagree.  As a bouncer, I was hit once from behind and to the side (still in the face.)  I had just started and was escorting a jackass out after a fight.  I did not realize that the other guy was a manager and so the other doormen did not hold him.  I started looking behind me just in time to get hit by a 6'1 220 lb blackbelt (yes, he was a blackbelt.)  By the time I regained my footing I was 8 - 10 feet from where I had started and in the end, had only a really small chip in a tooth to show for it.  No bruising, no real marks.


I agree that it seems unlikely that he was hit- but from personal experience, I can tell you  that there needs to be more evidence than a lack of swelling for me to pronounce him guilty.

With regard to that. I wonder how soon the pictures were taken after his was hit by the "gentle giant?" Sometimes bruises, swelling, discoloration can happen many minutes or even hours afterwards, especially if he immediately, say, put ice on it or medic treated him at scene.

[b_dubb]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/078c82ad45ff4ec6aa1c7744dfa7df14/grand-jury-documents-rife-inconsistencies

... Falkie?

[coaster]

Nancy Grace acting like whe was about ready to cry while interviewing Brown's parents was the most nauseating thing ever. Such a dumb fake bitch.

[Yorkshire pud]

Just so you know; some fuckwits in London have decided they'll join in the demo. I hope you're all satisfied it isn't just hoola hoops and Mc D you've exported.

[coaster]

I saw  security cam footage on CNN of one of the stores they looted. I didn't see one white person looting that store. I wonder how these looters feel knowing they were shown on world news looting beer and orange soda. talk about living up to the stereotype. And they are the ones who want "justice". Where is the store owner's justice?

[Yorkshire pud]

I saw  security cam footage on CNN of one of the stores they looted. I didn't see one white person looting that store. I wonder how these looters feel knowing they were shown on world news looting beer and orange soda. talk about living up to the stereotype. And they are the ones who want "justice". Where is the store owner's justice?

^  This

[AZ/CO]

I'm an open-minded person and enjoy learning new things, hence the Art Bell fan in me.  I want to understand the Brown family's viewpoint, but when the family and their supporters say that the grand jury report is full of lies, where do I go with that?  I feel that if Darren Wilson had been indicted, riots still would have occurred in some sort of 'celebration'.  There isn't any way to learn where the "other side" is coming from because I now believe it to be cultural; too deep seeded to learn about in a single conversation.

Happy Thanksgiving!!!

[albrecht]

Just so you know; some fuckwits in London have decided they'll join in the demo. I hope you're all satisfied it isn't just hoola hoops and Mc D you've exported.

Isn't globalization, unfettered immigration, and diversity great?! Malcontents and minorities around the globe can share in the mayhem instantly. "Gentle Giants" of the world unite! All you have to lose are your chains!
-Enoch was right.

[pyewacket]

I wasn't going to comment on this but the whole thing is beyond the pale. Not all of us know each other personally so I have no idea if any of you are in law enforcement or not or have friends/relative in service.

A young man posted this video well before this happened and he has explained a source of the problems better than any of those in so called "leadership" positions.

http://madworldnews.com/black-man-advice-black-people/



Fredrick Wilson II is one smart young man!

[paladin1991]

If I was in my car and Brown charged me I would be required to flee to safety. By law. Even with a concealed carry permit.


I'm betting that textbook police procedure would have Wilson retreat, wait for backup and THEN apprehend Brown and accomplice without bloodshed.





This is not the face of someone who was punched by a 6'4 250 lb man.

Hmmmm.  Does it look like he was punched by a 6'4" 250  man?  140 lb man?   

I don't know how many fights you have been in (here is where you can tell me that you are a 40 year vet of MMA) but I was in quite a few.  Often times, with soft tissue injuries, it's not very dramatic when you catalogue injuries.  I had to often times take pictures of my suspects immediately after arrest to doc my use of force.  Even while they are being trussed up for transport to the hospital.  Bruising is at it's most kodachrome brilliant 2-3 days later.  Often when defense attorneys would take their photos to doc use of force.

[zeebo]

I'm an open-minded person and enjoy learning new things, hence the Art Bell fan in me.  I want to understand the Brown family's viewpoint, but when the family and their supporters say that the grand jury report is full of lies, where do I go with that?  I feel that if Darren Wilson had been indicted, riots still would have occurred in some sort of 'celebration'.  There isn't any way to learn where the "other side" is coming from because I now believe it to be cultural; too deep seeded to learn about in a single conversation.

Good post az/co.  I agree and I think sadly you'll see all that ugliness right here on this thread.  People who are so committed to their world view, the narrative they want this case to represent, that they'll ignore the facts, slander those they disagree with, and would happily condemn this cop to life in prison or public execution just to make themselves feel they were right.

There are problems in the system, there are bad cops.  These problems should be rooted out and dealth with.  But that does not mean this is the case that exemplifies those issues.  As for those who insist it is, I wonder how can we ever get anywhere with such ingrained biases?

And I agree that you'd think people on this particular forum would be more open-minded, less rigid in their thinking, and not so quick to make moral judgements about others. 

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Good post az/co.  I agree and I think sadly you'll see all that ugliness right here on this thread.  People who are so committed to their world view, the narrative they want this case to represent, that they'll ignore the facts, slander those they disagree with, and would happily condemn this cop to life in prison or public execution just to make themselves feel they were right.

There are problems in the system, there are bad cops.  These problems should be rooted out and dealth with.  But that does not mean this is the case that exemplifies those issues.  As for those who insist it is, I wonder how can we ever get anywhere with such ingrained biases?

And I agree that you'd think people on this particular forum would be more open-minded, less rigid in their thinking, and not so quick to make moral judgements about others.

This politics forum:  it... changes people.

[attachimg=1]

[FightTheFuture]

I wasn't going to comment on this but the whole thing is beyond the pale. Not all of us know each other personally so I have no idea if any of you are in law enforcement or not or have friends/relative in service.

A young man posted this video well before this happened and he has explained a source of the problems better than any of those in so called "leadership" positions.

http://madworldnews.com/black-man-advice-black-people/



Fredrick Wilson II is one smart young man!

I believe the kids call that...keepin` it real.


Great post. I hope this kid doesn`t get too much grief for this.






Happy tofurkey day!

[Gd5150]

I wasn't going to comment on this but the whole thing is beyond the pale. Not all of us know each other personally so I have no idea if any of you are in law enforcement or not or have friends/relative in service.

A young man posted this video well before this happened and he has explained a source of the problems better than any of those in so called "leadership" positions.

http://madworldnews.com/black-man-advice-black-people/



Fredrick Wilson II is one smart young man!

Awesome! Guys like this man Fredrick Wilson II are going to change the world. Not cliche politically correct politicians who exploit those in "the hood".


#Responsidammbility

[b_dubb]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/us/ferguson-missouri-town-under-siege-after-police-shooting.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=3

Wilson's SUV. 50 ft later Brown's flip flops. Brown's body surrounded by bullet casings.

Looks like some shit went down near Wilson's car. Then Brown tried to get away. Wilson closed in and then emptied his clip.

Unless these were magic bullets were the casings follow along to where the bullets wound up.

I bet if Wilson was a better shot he would've shot Brown in the back.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/us/ferguson-missouri-town-under-siege-after-police-shooting.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=3

Wilson's SUV. 50 ft later Brown's flip flops. Brown's body surrounded by bullet casings.

Looks like some shit went down near Wilson's car. Then Brown tried to get away. Wilson closed in and then emptied his clip.

Unless these were magic bullets were the casings follow along to where the bullets wound up.

I bet if Wilson was a better shot he would've shot Brown in the back.

Wilson's statement is right here that explains all that:


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/11/24/ferguson-evidence/assets/interviews/interview-po-darren-wilson.pdf

Other witnesses support it.  You many not believe his version of events but it doesn't require any magic bullets.

Crime scene detective photos are on this site, along with all the testimony and evidence.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/11/25/us/evidence-released-in-michael-brown-case.html?_r=3

[zeebo]

I bet if Wilson was a better shot he would've shot Brown in the back.

You seem to make alot of assumptions about people you don't know.  Fortunately we have a legal system that, while imperfect, attempts to focus on actual evidence, not preconceptions.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

What do you think this shooting will end up costing?

$10 million? $20 million? $40 million?

[b_dubb]

You seem to make alot of assumptions about people you don't know.  Fortunately we have a legal system that, while imperfect, attempts to focus on actual evidence, not preconceptions.

And you seem eager to accept Wilson's ridiculous explanation for why he shot an unarmed man 6 times.


Wilson has the greatest motivation to lie in this scenario and not sure why anyone should accept what he says at truth when it conflicts with evidence and common sense.

[zeebo]

And you seem eager to accept Wilson's ridiculous explanation for why he shot an unarmed man 6 times.

Nope, not eager.  It's just where, on the whole, I ended up with this particular case. 

And you may be surprised to know that I'm not exactly ok with how cops often conduct themselves, how they routinely push the limits of our civil rights, and how judges uphold their infringments all the time.   

On that note, I'm outta this thread.  Happy Thanksgiving all.  Peace.

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

What do you think this shooting will end up making?

$10 million? $20 million? $40 million?

fixed it



don't report me 

[WOTR]

On that note, I'm outta this thread.  Happy Thanksgiving all.  Peace.

Happy Thanksgiving...


I find that I am just glancing at this thread now- there is nothing new.  I feel like the only one who really has no opinion one way or the other on this case.  My gut tells me that there is probably something more to it than just "he was a thug" and deserved to be shot.  At the same time, I remain unconvinced that it was cold blooded murder.


If I had the time I would listen to all 60 hours of testimony- but why bother?  If I concluded that he was innocent, people would claim that I was a racist bastard.  If, after actually looking at all of the evidence I thought that it was murder I would simply be labeled a "leftard."  And, regardless, it would not make one bit of difference in my life to feel like I held the truth of what happened.


At this point, I think you almost have to conclude that unless there was evidence purposely not provided to the Grand Jury, their decision is the best we will get.  It does not mean that the officer was innocent- only that there is not enough evidence to say it warrants a closer look.  One of the ideas put forward by Franklin is "that it is better that 100 guilty persons should escape than one innocent person should suffer" (increased by him from Blackstone's original 10...)  If we accept that, and we accept that there may well not have been enough evidence (regardless of the officers innocence or guilt) to ruin his life, I think we need to find a way to move forward...

[DanTSX]

You could be right, it might be overt racism.

Let me see here if I understand you correctly.....what you are saying that if Brown was a white man beating Wilson in the head, Wilson would not have shot him?


Do I have that right?

[DanTSX]

And you seem eager to accept Wilson's ridiculous explanation for why he shot an unarmed man 6 times.


Wilson has the greatest motivation to lie in this scenario and not sure why anyone should accept what he says at truth when it conflicts with evidence and common sense.

He also has the greatest motivation to tell the truth, as any damage to his credibility, even over a minor detail, would put all of his credibility into question.


While I that know you guys are going to suggest that he has no credibility to start with, you really don't have any evidence that he isn't telling the truth.  If you have any evidence or information that he is lying, or has lied, please by all means, let me know........I'll be waiting patiently.   The only evidence or proof regarding his credibility that I have seen here so far is people saying essentially what boils down to "he must be lying, because I don't like what happened".  So it's not really his credibility in question, but rather yours........

[DanTSX]

What do you think this shooting will end up costing?

$10 million? $20 million? $40 million?

Even a small ghetto liquor store going up in flames will easily have anywhere from a quarter to one-half of a million dollars of inventory.  Roughly the same amount for the building if it is free-standing.  Then you can add in any business interruption insurance, and if there were any other commercial or residential tennents in the building, the number can go up even more.  Then you have to figure in the administration and investigation of the claims, legal costs, etc, etc.    Shit can get expensive FAST and can get drawn out for over a decade if there is any dispute over the payments.  Now if there are any personal injury or death claims, things get even more ridiculous.


And every single burned building and every dollar spent in insurance claims or rebuilding, and every dollar in lost tax revenue is white man's fault for their insidious racism. 

[Quick Karl]

He also has the greatest motivation to tell the truth, as any damage to his credibility, even over a minor detail, would put all of his credibility into question.

While I that know you guys are going to suggest that he has no credibility to start with, you really don't have any evidence that he isn't telling the truth.  If you have any evidence or information that he is lying, or has lied, please by all means, let me know........I'll be waiting patiently.   The only evidence or proof regarding his credibility that I have seen here so far is people saying essentially what boils down to "he must be lying, because I don't like what happened".  So it's not really his credibility in question, but rather yours........

Human instinct is to project one's own nature onto others.

[WOTR]

Human instinct is to project one's own nature onto others.

you have to know that i cannot resist... May I find some of the things that have been said about Obama? 

[Quick Karl]

you have to know that i cannot resist... May I find some of the things that have been said about Obama? 

You mean things like Obama is "the one"? Or that he is "not a racist"?

[SciFiAuthor]

Even a small ghetto liquor store going up in flames will easily have anywhere from a quarter to one-half of a million dollars of inventory.  Roughly the same amount for the building if it is free-standing.  Then you can add in any business interruption insurance, and if there were any other commercial or residential tennents in the building, the number can go up even more.  Then you have to figure in the administration and investigation of the claims, legal costs, etc, etc.    Shit can get expensive FAST and can get drawn out for over a decade if there is any dispute over the payments.  Now if there are any personal injury or death claims, things get even more ridiculous.


And every single burned building and every dollar spent in insurance claims or rebuilding, and every dollar in lost tax revenue is white man's fault for their insidious racism.

What's really interesting is to imagine who profits from something like this. Agitators and protest movements. There's actually a significant amount of money to be made off the activism biz and no one ever seems to recognize that angle but it's completely true. The media makes a fortune off of narratives like the "gentle giant" and people like Sharpton make an excellent living by agitating. I'll bet the media industry made more off of this case than was lost by other sectors to the looting.

[pyewacket]

What's really interesting is to imagine who profits from something like this. Agitators and protest movements. There's actually a significant amount of money to be made off the activism biz and no one ever seems to recognize that angle but it's completely true. The media makes a fortune off of narratives like the "gentle giant" and people like Sharpton make an excellent living by agitating. I'll bet the media industry made more off of this case than was lost by other sectors to the looting.

How true! Contrast this with the tepid reaction to the Fort Hood shootings of unarmed military personnel.

And here they go: <snip>Oscar-nominated documentary filmmaker Amy Berg, actor Nate Parker and writer-director Matthew Cooke have teamed up to make a documentary about what they're calling "the black male crisis," focusing on the shooting death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., and the deaths of other unarmed black men over the past few years, including Trayvon Martin, Ramarley Graham and Eric Garner.</snip>

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ferguson-decision-amy-berg-working-752712