Grand Jury decision in "Gentle Giant" or "Thug" police killing made.

[b_dubb]

Sorry it didn't turn out the way you would have liked.

why do you always make shit personal?

[b_dubb]

Did you read the report?

I did. 

[b_dubb]

Now read the gran jury and STFU. Sorry it's not a more impartial source like Bill Maher.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/crucial-pieces-evidence-ferguson-grand-jury/story?id=27163048

I'm going to invoke the Reginald Denny here: STEP ON THE FUCKING GAS! That was all this asshole had to do.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

I did.

Okay.  What I got out of it was that the subject refused to answer any questions about the illegal derelict cars on his property -- probably potentially stolen cars -- and that is why he was being arrested.  He only caught the end of that exchange with his cell phone, making it appear he was being arrested for his video.

[Quick Karl]

Thanks for the non-sequiturs.
What do you think will happen if you punch a cop who tells you not to jaywalk.
What is he going to say? "Sorry, my mistake.  I thought you were black."
Think about it b-dubb.

[The General]

why do you always make shit personal?

Why do you always take shit personally?

[zeebo]

...There's a little drift in your story.  I stand by my statement.

And I stand by mine.  Your bizarre inference of racism from my neutral observation shows that you're the one conflating crime and race, not me.  I was hoping you'd show some class and offer an apology, as I would if I'd made such an off-base accusation.  But looking over your biased, rage-filled posts on this thread I see now you've got a narrative you're determined to stick to, regardless of the facts. 

In two years, this is the first time I've ever posted in the politics forum.  I've stayed away from it because I come to bellgab to get away from these kinds of hostile exchanges that flood our media and the internet.  I only came in to get on record about our exchange because I was kind of blind-sided by your baseless assertion in the chat room.  I also wanted to see if it was as bad in here as I expected, and sadly it is.  On that note, I'm dropping this now and will go back to avoiding politics here unless I have cause again to defend myself.

[DanTSX]

If? Since when has fortune telling been presented as evidence to defend potential murder? If I'd not run him over in the street he may have got in his car later and run me over...and that's my defence. Nope.


You clearly haven't been out in a city centre on a friday or saturday night/early morning when the clubs are throwing out. Trust me, our cops deal with similar every fucking weekend, but they don't get the armed response team out to shoot people, on drugs/ booze or whatever. I'm not saying he shouldn't have been apprehended and dealt with and charged with robbery. But shooting him was suspect.



I never mentioned skin. But the cop also made bad decisions.

Fortune telling?

What the fuck are you talking about?

What makes you think Brown would had stopped hitting Wilson, or worse, if he knocked him out?  A threat doesn't have to be lethal to receive lethal force.   Only need it be likely to result in grave bodily injury or loss of property to another.   A living and functioning officer is too valuable to waste than one recovering in ICU, not to mention his family.


We have plenty of cops here that regularly go hands on with drunk hooligans that would be the match for your best hooligans any day of the week.  No guns used either.   So not sure what your point is here.   There is huge difference between a bar brawl and an unprovoked attack by a giant teenager on bath salts.

And by all means, feel free to come over here, pin a badge on your chest and deal with the crime how you think it should be dealt with.    Several departments are hiring able, intelligent men into their early 40's.   The pay and bennefits are excellent in many of the cities, and the badge-bunny tail that you can get is in the world that most in that pay grade would never otherwise enjoy.  I assure you that you wouldn't think of leaving the station without a sidearm, and that your inner city problems are nothing compared to the simmering hatred and violence in ours.


Your police departments' decision to keep arms out of the hands of front line officers hands is political and only makes your criminals safer, not the officers.   Your police forces are professional and organized and effective for your society, but not for ours.

[b_dubb]

Why do you always take shit personally?

okay. be your cryptofascist self.  maybe we should just start rounding up people in ferguson, put them up against a wall and shoot them

[b_dubb]

And I stand by mine.  Your bizarre inference of racism from my neutral observation shows that you're the one conflating crime and race, not me.  I was hoping you'd show some class and offer an apology, as I would if I'd made such an off-base accusation.  But looking over your biased, rage-filled posts on this thread I see now you've got a narrative you're determined to stick to, regardless of the facts. 

In two years, this is the first time I've ever posted in the politics forum.  I've stayed away from it because I come to bellgab to get away from these kinds of hostile exchanges that flood our media and the internet.  I only came in to get on record about our exchange because I was kind of blind-sided by your baseless assertion in the chat room.  I also wanted to see if it was as bad in here as I expected, and sadly it is.  On that note, I'm dropping this now and will go back to avoiding politics here unless I have cause again to defend myself.

Looking at the exact language you used you don't see any reason why someone might say "you sound kind of racists".  Which isn't an accusation.  It's an observation.  And your statement sounded pretty racist.

[zeebo]

Looking at the exact language you used you don't see any reason why someone might say "you sound kind of racists".  Which isn't an accusation.  It's an observation.  And your statement sounded pretty racist.

To you.  I think maybe you heard what you wanted to hear.

[Yorkshire pud]

Your police departments' decision to keep arms out of the hands of front line officers hands is political and only makes your criminals safer, not the officers.   Your police forces are professional and organized and effective for your society, but not for ours.

Nope; it isn't political, the consensus is that it would make them more of a target to be killed if they were armed-that's the cops saying that, not politicians. And how many of your cops are killed each week?


Mind you, the statistic is academic, you have a country that is savage in it's approach to 'getting along', and it's all the more laughable how some here describe Africa as 'third world'! I assume it's because most are dirt poor and black and will remain so for the foreseeable, but in a supposed 'civilised' country that has all that the world can make, you have deaths on so called 'black friday' because of the unmitigated greed, selfishness and 'fuck you' attitude.

[DanTSX]

okay. be your cryptofascist self.  maybe we should just start rounding up people in ferguson, put them up against a wall and shoot them

Well......

Probably because most of the residents of Ferg are not violent assholes on bath salts with authority identity disorders beating up cops and going for their gun, or burning their city down.

The majority are folks working to get by or get ahead and are probably thankful when they need to call the police and they show up to assist them....

[The General]

okay. be your cryptofascist self.  maybe we should just start rounding up people in ferguson, put them up against a wall and shoot them

More non-sequiturs.

[Bart Ell]

It's gonna be awkward at the BellGab Thanksgiving table this year if this mild slap fight keeps up.

[PB the Deplorable]

We are tolerant, compassionate, etc., etc., But that doesn't give you a free pass to be a racist idiot. You can couch it in all the code words you want - inner city, urban - as you have tried to do in many, many posts here.  And you can try to pre-emptively cover your tracks by decrying "race baiters".


I'm not falling for it anymore.  You can disagree all you want with the facts, but no one deserves to be shot and killed for petty crime.  In your world, it is fair game on blacks, err, sorry inner city residents, but the Clive Bundy's of the world - armed and threatening violence to law enforcement officials - are patriots.  And only because they look and think like you.


Racist.

Aw, Daddio doesn't like me anymore.  I don't agree with him, so I must be a wasist, wah waaah


Speaking of dipshits, Obama is now 0 for 3 meddling in events he's chosen for their racial overtones

1)  "The cop acted stupidly" in the incident with the black college professor breaking into his own home
2)  "If I had a son he'd look like Trayvon"
3)  Ferguson

If you are looking for people who look at everything through the lens of race, look no further than the White House. 

[The General]

If you are looking for people who look at everything through the lens of race, look no further than the White House.

You forgot 'class' and 'gender.'

[Gd5150]

It's gonna be awkward at the BellGab Thanksgiving table this year if this mild slap fight keeps up.

LOL!!! At least there will be plenty of turkeys.

[RealCool Daddio]

Aw, Daddio doesn't like me anymore.

Did I ever say I did?

I don't agree with him, so I must be a wasist, wah waaah

More of the vaunted conservative maturity, I see.  Or maybe just putting the "boy" back in PaperBoy.

Speaking of dipshits, Obama is now 0 for 3 meddling in events he's chosen for their racial overtones

1)  "The cop acted stupidly" in the incident with the black college professor breaking into his own home
2)  "If I had a son he'd look like Trayvon"
3)  Ferguson

If you are looking for people who look at everything through the lens of race, look no further than the White House.

The cop did act stupidly, he was right to express sympathy for Trayvon, and Ferguson - well, watch the news.  As usual, no substance from you, just thinly veiled racism wrapped in standard Fox News talking points.  quite the black and white world you live in, isn't it?

[DanTSX]

It's gonna be awkward at the BellGab Thanksgiving table this year if this mild slap fight keeps up.

Thanksgiving celebrates an invasion of religious radicals who invaded the lands of the Nobel savage, gave them alcohol and disease before killing them off so that he colonizers could bring in African slaves so they could work their farms while selectively breeding them to be large and muscular, so they could shoot them like migratory ducks.


This is the fault of Fox News, Koch brothers, and George bush.

[DanTSX]

Did I ever say I did?
More of the vaunted conservative maturity, I see.  Or maybe just putting the "boy" back in PaperBoy.
The cop did act stupidly, he was right to express sympathy for Trayvon, and Ferguson - well, watch the news.  As usual, no substance from you, just thinly veiled racism wrapped in standard Fox News talking points.  quite the black and white world you live in, isn't it?

How is it thinly veiled racism?

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Thanksgiving celebrates an invasion of religious radicals who invaded the lands of the Nobel savage, gave them alcohol and disease before killing them off so that he colonizers could bring in African slaves so they could work their farms while selectively breeding them to be large and muscular, so they could shoot them like migratory ducks.


This is the fault of Fox News, Koch brothers, and George bush.

In Canada we just celebrate the bounty of the harvest (during October which is when we celebrate Thanksgiving).

[paladin1991]

It's gonna be awkward at the BellGab Thanksgiving table this year if this mild slap fight keeps up.

"YOu don't know what the fuck you're talking about, Bart Ell! Now pass the sweet potatos before this shit gets serious."

[DanTSX]

In Canada we just celebrate the bounty of the harvest (during October which is when we celebrate Thanksgiving).

Yes. You pushed the first nations off their land too so you could celebrate the bounty of your harvests.




And you continue to keep your boots on their necks,

[Bart Ell]

In Canada we just celebrate the bounty of the harvest (during October which is when we celebrate Thanksgiving).

Not true... we also let the slow kids drive the busses for the day.

[RealCool Daddio]

How is it thinly veiled racism?

You could be right, it might be overt racism.

[DanTSX]

You could be right, it might be overt racism.

Or it's neither. 

[bateman]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/078c82ad45ff4ec6aa1c7744dfa7df14/grand-jury-documents-rife-inconsistencies

FERGUSON, Mo. (AP) â€" Some witnesses said Michael Brown had been shot in the back. Another said he was lying face-down when Officer Darren Wilson finished him off. Still others acknowledged changing their stories to fit published details about the autopsy, or admitted that they didn't see the shooting at all.

An Associated Press review of thousands of pages of grand jury documents reveals numerous examples of statements made during the shooting investigation that were inconsistent, fabricated or provably wrong. For one, the autopsies ultimately showed Brown wasn't struck by any bullets in his back.

Prosecutors exposed these inconsistencies before the jurors, which likely influenced their decision not to indict Wilson in Brown's death.

Bob McCulloch, the St. Louis County prosecutor, said the grand jury had to weigh testimony that conflicted with physical evidence and conflicting statements by witnesses as it decided whether Wilson should face charges.

"Many witnesses to the shooting of Michael Brown made statements inconsistent with other statements they made and also conflicting with the physical evidence. Some were completely refuted by the physical evidence," McCulloch said.

The decision Monday not to charge Wilson with any crime set off more violent protests in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson and around the country, fueled by claims that the unarmed black 18-year-old was shot while peacefully surrendering to the white officer in the mostly African-American city.

What people thought were facts about the Aug. 9 shooting have become intertwined with what many see as abuses of power and racial inequality in America.

And media coverage of this aftermath made it into the grand jury proceedings. Before some witnesses testified, prosecutors showed jurors clips of the same people making statements on TV.

Their inconsistencies began almost immediately after the shooting, from people in the neighborhood, the friend walking with Brown during the encounter and even one woman who authorities suggested probably wasn't even at the scene at the time.

Jurors also were presented with dueling versions from Wilson and Dorian Johnson, who was walking with Brown during the Aug. 9 confrontation. Johnson painted Wilson as provoking the violence, while Wilson said Brown was the aggressor.

But Johnson also declared on TV, in a clip played for the grand jury, that Wilson fired at least one shot at his friend while Brown was running away: "It struck my friend in the back."

Johnson held to a variation of this description in his grand jury testimony, saying the shot caused Brown's body to "do like a jerking movement, not to where it looked like he got hit in his back, but I knew, it maybe could have grazed him, but he definitely made a jerking movement."

Other eyewitness accounts also were clearly wrong.

One woman, who said she was smoking a cigarette with a friend nearby, claimed she saw a second police officer in the passenger seat of Wilson's vehicle. When quizzed by a prosecutor, she elaborated: The officer was white, "middle age or young" and in uniform. She said she was positive there was a second officer â€" even though there was not.

Another woman testified that she saw Brown leaning through the officer's window "from his navel up," with his hand moving up and down, as if he were punching the officer. But when the same witness returned to testify again on another day, she said she suffers from mental disorder, has racist views and that she has trouble distinguishing the truth from things she had read online. Prosecutors suggested the woman had fabricated the entire incident, and wasn't even at the scene the day of the shooting.

Another witness had told the FBI after the shooting that he saw Wilson shoot Brown in the back, and then stand over his prone body to finish him off. But in his grand jury testimony, this witness, acknowledged that he had not seen that part of the shooting, and that what he told the FBI was "based on me being where I'm from and that can be the only assumption that I have."

The witness, who lives in the predominantly black neighborhood where Brown was killed, also acknowledged that he changed his story to fit details of the autopsy that he had learned about on TV.

"So it was after you learned that the things you said you saw couldn't have happened that way, then you changed your story about what you seen?" a prosecutor asserted.

"Yeah, to coincide with what really happened," the witness replied.

Another man, describing himself as a friend of Brown's, told a federal investigator that he heard the first gunshot, looked out his window and saw an officer with a gun drawn and Brown "on his knees with his hands in the air." He added: "I seen him shoot him in the head."

But when later pressed by the investigator, the friend said he hadn't seen the actual shooting because he was walking down the stairs at the time, and instead had heard details from someone in the apartment complex.

"What you are saying you saw isn't forensically possible based on the evidence," the investigator told the friend.

Shortly after that, the friend asked if he could leave.

"I ain't feeling comfortable," he said.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Yes. You pushed the first nations off their land too so you could celebrate the bounty of your harvests.




And you continue to keep your boots on their necks,

I'm not responsible for the sins of ancient European settlers who weren't even in my family line.  We're all born as citizens of Canada with the same legal rights and yes, first nations people are largely born into poverty.  But as first nations people they have more latitude than I do -- land use privileges, tax rights, self-governing and self-policing rights, financial stipends, the granting of land titles to first nation communities, and negotiation rights in government land-use decisions.

Anyway, our Thanksgiving isn't about any of that.

[WOTR]

This is not the face of someone who was punched by a 6'4 250 lb man.

I am going to have to disagree.  As a bouncer, I was hit once from behind and to the side (still in the face.)  I had just started and was escorting a jackass out after a fight.  I did not realize that the other guy was a manager and so the other doormen did not hold him.  I started looking behind me just in time to get hit by a 6'1 220 lb blackbelt (yes, he was a blackbelt.)  By the time I regained my footing I was 8 - 10 feet from where I had started and in the end, had only a really small chip in a tooth to show for it.  No bruising, no real marks.


I agree that it seems unlikely that he was hit- but from personal experience, I can tell you  that there needs to be more evidence than a lack of swelling for me to pronounce him guilty.