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Obama's Going Full-on Mussolini After the Mid-Terms

Started by Ruteger, October 27, 2014, 08:43:40 PM

albrecht

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on October 29, 2014, 09:10:57 AM
Does it? I'm not sure it would be nice. We're as a species selfish, all of us. Culture and convention has modified us over the centuries but if we were cavemen and women, we'd be looking after ourselves only. I think deep down we'll all revert back in the case of a major catastrophe.

Exactly; The principle has no leaders of any focus..Sure you'd have various people who had areas of expertise helping the collective, but hey wouldn't carry any status above anyone else. And it hasn't and can never work because of the corrupt nature of despots.

Stalin told the people of the USSR that what they had was Communist utopia; Our western leaders told us that Stalin had a Communist state. Neither was true. Which is why many educated dissidents tried to escape from the USSR. They know it wasn't utopia. The poor peasants who worked in chronically inefficient factories building crap tractors that no-one would use outside the USSR and broke, and lived in abject poverty didn't know any better; all the time being told they had utopia. Looking on as Zils drove down  the separate roads in Moscow carrying 'comrades' who were more equal than they were.
Right or Left, in more modern terms is relatively meaningless. Just as many Party labels. It is more about control over your life, business, property (more or less) and the relationship between individuals (and corporations) and government. In many aspects both Parties (at least here) go for a symbiotic relationship with select corporations (they get contributions, news programs, etc and the select companies get benefits by regulatory capture, government contracts, etc.) The main difference being which corporations are the beneficiaries, though, some- like bankers and insurance companies- are usually a beneficiary no matter who wins (this applies to our national politics mainly.)

What goes for "left" in the USA, barring some true believers in places like Berkeley, is more "right" than say in much of Continental Europe. And what is "right" in the USA is nothing like what it mean in Europe (support for royalty, strong central authority, or even stuff like neo-NAZI, etc.) And, of course, the now term in the USA for "liberal" means far differently. Likewise "conservative" (our conservative, traditionally would be more like the liberal.)

In any event we agree  :o about communism and attempted utopias of any type.

paladin1991

Quote from: Georgie For President 2216 on October 28, 2014, 03:41:33 PM
According to the right he's a complete oxymoron.  They've linked every possible evil to Obama no matter how the diatribe comes to contradict itself.  It becomes like a child's fairytale with the virtuous conservatives fighting the big bad wolf.  That's all I was trying to illustrate.
So, they finally linked the big bad O to the incessant conflict btwn Clowns and Mimes.  Well, I guess I'm satisfied with O's vilification.

albrecht

Quote from: paladin1991 on October 31, 2014, 11:58:02 AM
So, they finally linked the big bad O to the incessant conflict btwn Clowns and Mimes.  Well, I guess I'm satisfied with O's vilification.
It is the Kenyan's fault!
Clowns Vs Mimes

paladin1991

that's what I'm talking about, Albrecht.  You saw the tranny clown pumping it's boobs at the mimes.  It's well documented and it's alright as long as the clown violence is restricted to the friggin mimes.
Friggin O!

SciFiAuthor

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on October 28, 2014, 01:49:56 AM
Oh bless. QK, P.B and Sci Fi author's gym buddy is back. Still crazy after all this time.

Actually, you really are seeing a blatant fast one. Obama just wants to increase the amount of likely Democrat voters in the United States by not enforcing the borders. He's creating a voting block and one that he hopes will make the presidency exclusively one party from here on out. Well, how is that not misuse of power? How is that not subversion? For the record, I think it's going to backfire in the case of the Mexicans, but it's just really bad form on Obama's part. Right out there in the open, quasi-illegal subversion of the interests of the American people.

You guys do it too, well, actually, your overlord the EU forces you to do it now. It's a symptom of a serious problem in western nations, this idea of trying to affect and control politics by importing voters. But that's never had a good outcome in the past, the Roman Empire fell because of it. We really should be opposing things like this because we may end up with something we didn't expect, such as British citizens heading to fight with ISIS and posing a threat to society when they come back. That signals that they were never British in the first place, they were a fifth column to both the right and left. Right? Well, you know, your political system imported people like Captain Hook and created that ass that beheads people in Syria. Obviously, you've had a failure. It might be a good idea to examine just how that failure occurred. We should do it too, we have our own traitors. Not that we can call them that anymore, it's not politically correct, but it's the same problem across the western world.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on November 01, 2014, 12:00:32 AM
Actually, you really are seeing a blatant fast one. Obama just wants to increase the amount of likely Democrat voters in the United States by not enforcing the borders. He's creating a voting block and one that he hopes will make the presidency exclusively one party from here on out. Well, how is that not misuse of power? How is that not subversion? For the record, I think it's going to backfire in the case of the Mexicans, but it's just really bad form on Obama's part. Right out there in the open, quasi-illegal subversion of the interests of the American people...

The Left doesn't believe in democracy, self rule, individual liberty, the consent of the governed, or any of the rest of it.  They never have.

It's why they've managed to write out huge parts of the Constitution, claim other parts as exclusive for their use, abuse it by interpreting things to favor their policies and erode the rights of others.

It's why Obama and his supporters have no qualms about exercising power not granted to the executive branch, why they don't mind ignoring court decisions, or abusing power.

The Left believe in total power for themselves, period.  If they have to import voters, so be it.  Whatever it takes.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Paper*Boy on November 01, 2014, 01:26:58 AM
The Left doesn't believe in democracy, self rule, individual liberty, the consent of the governed, or any of the rest of it.  They never have.

Actually, that's exactly what 'the left' believe in. I know you truly believe they don't, but then your definition of left isn't the reality.

Quote
The Left believe in total power for themselves, period.  If they have to import voters, so be it.  Whatever it takes.

Yes, the left do, because the left are the people who advocate the people being in control of the economy and means of production.  With no overall elite telling them what to do. Look it up yourself.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on November 01, 2014, 12:00:32 AM
... That signals that they were never British in the first place, they were a fifth column to both the right and left. Right? Well, you know, your political system imported people like Captain Hook and created that ass that beheads people in Syria. Obviously, you've had a failure. It might be a good idea to examine just how that failure occurred. We should do it too, we have our own traitors. Not that we can call them that anymore, it's not politically correct, but it's the same problem across the western world.

Even before this, we've had people immigrate here, become citizens, and continue to agitate on behalf of issues and causes back in their homeland.

I've always been a bit bothered by this.  Sure, as Americans they're free to do so, but I believe immigrants should assimilate and become Americans, or go somewhere else - not continue on with their former political lives.

Living on the West Coast, I guess it makes sense that the examples I'm familiar with involve people from East Asia - places like Vietnam, China, Laos, even Korea.  Sometimes they get arrested there and want us to bail them out. 

I'm not saying the issues themselves aren't valid or that I don't support them, but it seems like taking advantage, an abuse of their new citizenship.

Another example is Salmon Rushdie.  He leaves Pakistan for the West, then writes a book deeply insulting and offensive to Moslems.  When he gets the expected response, our taxes are supposed to be used to provide security to protect him. 

These people put our countries in lousy situations that are not of our doing.


Moslems heading off from the West to fight on behalf of ISIS is more of the same, except they are clearly the enemy and a danger to us.


Quote from: Yorkshire pud on November 01, 2014, 01:35:30 AM
Actually, that's exactly what 'the left' believe in. I know you truly believe they don't, but then your definition of left isn't the reality.

Yes, the left do, because the left are the people who advocate the people being in control of the economy and means of production.  With no overall elite telling them what to do. Look it up yourself.

There is nothing to look up. 

I see the people who claim to be The Left, and others who agree those folks are on The Left.  I hear what they say, I read what they write, and I see what they do.  That's reality, not some paragraph someone wrote in a book somewhere.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Paper*Boy on November 01, 2014, 01:45:25 AM
There is nothing to look up. 

I see the people who claim to be The Left, and others who agree those folks are on The Left.  I hear what they say, I read what they write, and I see what they do.  That's reality, not some paragraph someone wrote in a book somewhere.

Really? You selectively call people Marxists but don't know what Marx wrote or advocated? Using your logic someone claiming they can live without oxygen is sufficient to prove they can. The 'left' isn't anything but people power for the people by the people.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on November 01, 2014, 02:01:15 AM
Really? You selectively call people Marxists but don't know what Marx wrote or advocated?...

I've corrected you many times on this.

You are the one who has read little to nothing of what Marx wrote.  Please educate yourself

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on November 01, 2014, 02:01:15 AM
... The 'left' isn't anything but people power for the people by the people.

The Left is ever Bigger Government continuing to seize as much freedom and liberty from the citizens as it can, any way it can.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Paper*Boy on November 01, 2014, 02:12:52 AM
I've corrected you many times on this.

You are the one who has read little to nothing of what Marx wrote.  Please educate yourself

You've corrected no-one; It's you who shoe horns your errornous beliefs into a convenient target. Please show us where a famed advocate of socialism has stated that the state should over lord the people with said people not determining their own destiny. 

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Paper*Boy on November 01, 2014, 02:15:00 AM
The Left is ever Bigger Government continuing to seize as much freedom and liberty from the citizens as it can, any way it can.

It isn't. You truly want to believe it, but like so much you believe, you're wrong.

Quote from: Paper*Boy on November 01, 2014, 01:45:25 AM
There is nothing to look up. 

I see the people who claim to be The Left, and others who agree those folks are on The Left.  I hear what they say, I read what they write, and I see what they do.

It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.  Thanks for stepping up!



Quote from: Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost on November 01, 2014, 02:33:16 AM
It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.  Thanks for stepping up!

Living in and around Berkeley CA my entire adult life, I was curious to understand how so many people living here could be so Anti-American.  Un-American.  Why? 

It's fun to tell them that here, I am the radical. 

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Paper*Boy on November 01, 2014, 02:51:03 AM
Living in and around Berkeley CA my entire adult life, I was curious to understand how so many people living here could be so Anti-American.  Un-American.  Why? 

It's fun to tell them that here, I am the radical.


Look; I bitch about Britain almost every day over one thing or another. There are regs and rules and laws that date back to before WW1 that frankly are obsolete, and there are things that you'd say were anti Britain to complain about. They're not.

It's just that the species has evolved, and the people who decided things several generations ago had an average lifespan in the 40's and 50's,  and couldn't conceive of a time when, god forbid women, black men and women would choose their politicians, let alone be allowed to drive cars or hold high office.

People who although may have truly had the best intentions (Most didn't), but compared to today, were not able to imagine the changes that would evolve in the 20th and 21st centuries.

What do you actually mean when you say 'Anti American'? Opinions that differ from yours? Those who think that there are aspects of a rampant capitalist based economy that have proved to be catastrophically flawed for the majority but leave the ones who made it that way richer and more prosperous? Those who think wars declared on the basis of lies are illegal and the ones declaring them should be held to account and put on trial? Facts you feel uncomfortable knowing? All anti American?


People who just absolutely despise this country.  Of course they won't say that.  Being mostly sheep, they might not even realize that's what it boils down to.   

No doubt they think they have the best of intentions - so what, so did bin Laden, so did Stalin - if everyone would just do what they think we should be doing, everything would be great.  It's called a Totalitarian Mindset.

Yes, the economic system.  And the system of government.  Our history, our culture.  The fact that we still have individual automobiles and don't all eat organic, local, 'fair'-trade food - and don't use the right bag to bring it home in.

Every single issue is found to nave a racial angle, and the reason things they don't like are the way they are is due to 'racism'.  Or sexism.  Or 'homophobia'.

Someone asked why I had never written a letter to the editor.  I don't want to look out the window one day and see a mob.  People can't put a bumper sticker for the wrong candidate on their car, or it will likely get scratched or worse.  Or put a sign in their yard advocating for the wrong vote. 

Better not say the wrong thing at work, or even at a party

I could go on.  And on.  And on.

Yes, these are the fascists.  Yes, they are Left-wing

I think Un-American is the perfect description.



When you ask about "opinions that are different from mine", you're asking the wrong person. 

It's these people who have problems with the opinions of others.  You know, the people who claim to be 'liberal', 'progressive', tolerant, enlightened, open-minded.  They are none of those things, yet they've been told they are.  They believe they are.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Paper*Boy on November 01, 2014, 07:02:57 AM
People who just absolutely despise this country.  Of course they won't say that.  Being mostly sheep, they might not even realize that's what it boils down to.   

No doubt they think they have the best of intentions - so what, so did bin Laden, so did Stalin - if everyone would just do what they think we should be doing, everything would be great.  It's called a Totalitarian Mindset.

Yes, the economic system.  And the system of government.  Our history, our culture.  The fact that we still have individual automobiles and don't all eat organic, local, 'fair'-trade food - and don't use the right bag to bring it home in.

Every single issue is found to nave a racial angle, and the reason things they don't like are the way they are is due to 'racism'.  Or sexism.  Or 'homophobia'.

Someone asked why I had never written a letter to the editor.  I don't want to look out the window one day and see a mob.  People can't put a bumper sticker for the wrong candidate on their car, or it will likely get scratched or worse.  Or put a sign in their yard advocating for the wrong vote. 

Better not say the wrong thing at work, or even at a party

I could go on.  And on.  And on.

Yes, these are the fascists.  Yes, they are Left-wing

I think Un-American is the perfect description.



When you ask about "opinions that are different from mine", you're asking the wrong person. 

It's these people who have problems with the opinions of others.  You know, the people who claim to be 'liberal', 'progressive', tolerant, enlightened, open-minded.  They are none of those things, yet they've been told they are.  They believe they are.

And when it's stated that Stalin wasn't a liberal or followed the ideals of Communism you disagree. What you said in bold is correct. By definition if they don't follow the ideals of what they espouse they're not what they say they are. Therefore they're something else. Whatever it is, it isn't liberal.

A dog with a tag on it saying it's a cat doesn't make it so. But it might suit both cats and dogs to perpetuate the myth for different reasons.

Quote from: Paper*Boy on November 01, 2014, 07:02:57 AM



Someone asked why I had never written a letter to the editor.  I don't want to look out the window one day and see a mob. 

Oh, please.  When was the last time you heard of that happening?  You would probably get a few hate letters from people who don't have the courage to sign their names, but that's about it.

QuoteYes, these are the fascists.  Yes, they are Left-wing

Except when they're intolerant right-wing extremists who send anonymous hate letters to people who express opinions that differ from theirs in letters to the editor.  I'd be happy to tell you about some of the more colorful and barely literate ones I've received over the years. 



[/quote]

Gd5150

Quote from: Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost on November 01, 2014, 11:44:04 AM
Oh, please.  When was the last time you heard of that happening?  You would probably get a few hate letters from people who don't have the courage to sign their names, but that's about it.

Except when they're intolerant right-wing extremists who send anonymous hate letters to people who express opinions that differ from theirs in letters to the editor.  I'd be happy to tell you about some of the more colorful and barely literate ones I've received over the years.

Remember when protestors moved in on Bush's driveway? Or sat outside Romneys house? Or an "objective" member of the media moved in next door to Sara Palin. Or when Wall Street CEOs had occupy protestors protesting outside their houses? Yep the left would never show up at someone's home.

How bout the zillion times they decided to destroy other peoples property because they were unhappy that the law and courts didn't agree with the version of a story they'd been spoonfed by the objective media.

Leftwing losers aren't the only ones that will abuse these tactics. Their noble leaders will do similar tactics. In CA if you register and vote as a republican you'll be forced to go to jury duty within 90 days and also have a really good chance at being audited. I magically received jury duty 3 times after the last 3 elections and also won 2 tax audits from the IRS. Good times living in the most "tolerant" state.

albrecht

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on November 01, 2014, 03:52:48 AM

Look; I bitch about Britain almost every day over one thing or another. There are regs and rules and laws that date back to before WW1 that frankly are obsolete, and there are things that you'd say were anti Britain to complain about. They're not.

It's just that the species has evolved, and the people who decided things several generations ago had an average lifespan in the 40's and 50's,  and couldn't conceive of a time when, god forbid women, black men and women would choose their politicians, let alone be allowed to drive cars or hold high office.

People who although may have truly had the best intentions (Most didn't), but compared to today, were not able to imagine the changes that would evolve in the 20th and 21st centuries.

What do you actually mean when you say 'Anti American'? Opinions that differ from yours? Those who think that there are aspects of a rampant capitalist based economy that have proved to be catastrophically flawed for the majority but leave the ones who made it that way richer and more prosperous? Those who think wars declared on the basis of lies are illegal and the ones declaring them should be held to account and put on trial? Facts you feel uncomfortable knowing? All anti American?
A country that covers up vast pedo scandals and whose sovereignty has been given up to be decided upon by often unelected judges and bureaucrats in places like Brussels, Strasbourg, and Luxembourg doesn't have much say. Who has, for the most part, eliminated such grand institutions such as grand juries. Who no longer has double-jeopardy protection. Whose speech can be curtailed and punished if deemed "hate" (or the stifling defamation and libel, civilly.) Juries? Don't need them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_Act_2003)? Even basic rights of self-defense of self or property (defence to you lot) will get you jailed (gaoled) often these days. Why not simply throw out ALL the grand tradition of Common Law, Magna Carta, etc? Simply bow to your masters in the EU.
Lest I be considered an apologist the US is going your route also, unfortunately. Too much centralization, government power, unfettered immigration, foreign wars, etc.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: albrecht on November 01, 2014, 12:24:07 PM
A country that covers up vast pedo scandals

Stop you there; Some tried to cover it up. The vast majority weren't aware, and now they are, there's a groundswell of anger and dismay to track down and bring to book those who not only committed offences, but those who covered it up.


Carry on...

Quote
and whose sovereignty has been given up to be decided upon by often unelected judges and bureaucrats in places like Brussels, Strasbourg, and Luxembourg doesn't have much say. Who has, for the most part,

Yep; sooner we're out of the EU the better


Carry on...

Quote
eliminated such grand institutions such as grand juries.

We never have had grand juries. Although there was talk of having a core pool of professional jurors a few years ago, but I don't think it came to anything..

Carry on...

Quote

Who no longer has double-jeopardy protection.

And rightly so in my opinion; If a defendant can appeal against a conviction, why should the prosecution be denied the same privilege if they believe the evidence is there to secure a conviction? Surely if your (for example) relative had been murdered and the evidence pointed overwhelmingly to the guilt of the defendant but he or she was acquitted, you'd like the right to appeal? Or would you take the view of hard luck?


carry on...

Quote
Whose speech can be curtailed and punished if deemed "hate" (or the stifling defamation and libel, civilly.)

If it can be shown to be causing or likely to cause undue stress or even be used to encourage or instigate violence. You'd be okay with someone outside your home demanding your death and encouraging same from others?


carry on...

Quote

Juries? Don't need them

Yes we do; I've sat on jury service twice in my life. Both time in my twenties. The cases you're referring to involve complex fraud trials whereby in teh past cases have collapsed because basically the jury was so confused and exhausted with the vast reams of documents they were unworkable..The other cases usually are where there's a risk of jury tampering...Going back to your relative who may have been murdered by (example) a gang member of a local drug baron... You'd be okay with the jury being threatened  to arrive at the 'right verdict' by the said drug baron?


carry on..

Quote


(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_Act_2003)? Even basic rights of self-defense of self or property (defence to you lot) will get you jailed (gaoled) often these days. Why not simply throw out ALL the grand tradition of Common Law, Magna Carta, etc? Simply bow to your masters in the EU.

Wrong again; self defence isn't illegal. Pursuing someone for retribution is.

carry on...

Quote
Lest I be considered an apologist the US is going your route also, unfortunately. Too much centralization, government power, unfettered immigration, foreign wars, etc.

Carry on...

albrecht

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on November 01, 2014, 01:08:05 PM
carry on
Shameful that you don't even know your own history!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/11-12/58/contents
Grand juries were eliminated iin the CJ Act of 1948. You HAD them for centuries prior. Now (circa 2002) you don't even have a committal procedure.
Double-jeopardy protection was eliminated more recently (2003)
We will see the outcome once your masters on the Continent rule but statutorily you still have a right of self-defense.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/section/76
But try using it, especially since your 1689 rights have been taken away ("no royal interference in the freedom of the people to have arms for their own defence as suitable to their class and as allowed by law")

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: albrecht on November 01, 2014, 01:26:32 PM
Shameful that you don't even know your own history!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/11-12/58/contents
Grand juries were eliminated iin the CJ Act of 1948. You HAD them for centuries prior. Now (circa 2002) you don't even have a committal procedure.
Double-jeopardy protection was eliminated more recently (2003)
We will see the outcome once your masters on the Continent rule but statutorily you still have a right of self-defense.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/section/76
But try using it, especially since your 1689 rights have been taken away ("no royal interference in the freedom of the people to have arms for their own defence as suitable to their class and as allowed by law")

Yadda yadda I think the phrase is the colonials use.

Carry on

Out of curiosity, after 2016 comes and goes and Obama hasn't gone "full Musolini," will anyone here bother to say, "Damn, guess I was wrong"?

Nah, didn't think so.  Instead, we'll hear about Hillary wants our guns!  She wants to turn all our cheerleaders into lesbians and our young men into eunuchs!  Quel horror!

Quick Karl

Quote from: albrecht on November 01, 2014, 12:24:07 PM
A country that covers up vast pedo scandals and whose sovereignty has been given up to be decided upon by often unelected judges and bureaucrats in places like Brussels, Strasbourg, and Luxembourg doesn't have much say. Who has, for the most part, eliminated such grand institutions such as grand juries. Who no longer has double-jeopardy protection. Whose speech can be curtailed and punished if deemed "hate" (or the stifling defamation and libel, civilly.) Juries? Don't need them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_Act_2003)? Even basic rights of self-defense of self or property (defence to you lot) will get you jailed (gaoled) often these days. Why not simply throw out ALL the grand tradition of Common Law, Magna Carta, etc? Simply bow to your masters in the EU.
Lest I be considered an apologist the US is going your route also, unfortunately. Too much centralization, government power, unfettered immigration, foreign wars, etc.

People have become pussies.

Quick Karl

Quote from: West of the Rockies on November 01, 2014, 02:45:14 PM
Out of curiosity, after 2016 comes and goes and Obama hasn't gone "Full Mussolini," ...

;D ;D ;D Hilarious!



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