Islamist shooters inside Canadian Parliament...ongoing

[WOTR]

Could be. Though I think it is smarter for police and governments to get ahead of the news instead of trying to cover-up or delay...

Could somebody please tell me why the name of the shooter was released by us authorities to CBS and later confirmed by the CBC in Canada?  how the hell does our government tell the US first, let them pass it through the ranks until they release it to CBS?  Why not tell Canadians the information when it is going to end up in the public sphere?  There was absolutely no excuse for this today and out of everything, this is one of the things that pissed me off the most.  I know that they have to keep secrets for investigative purposes- but then keep secrets and do not force me to get my news from US media if i want to be up to date...

[Yorkshire pud]

News that doesn't support the Left-wing agenda goes unreported all the time. 

We're supposed to think all evil violent Muslims belong to al-Qaeda, and now ISIS, and they aren't really Muslims anyway - the rest are peaceful and wonderful.  Suppressing news that suggests otherwise is nothing new.

You really haven't got a clue have you? Don't answer that, it will confuse you.

[ksm32]

force me to get my news from US media if i want to be up to date...

Art used to have the same complaint from the other direction. Having to get his news first from outside the US.

[PB the Deplorable]

You really haven't got a clue have you? ..

Said the person who insists Mao's China, Stalin's Russia, and Barrack Obama are... right-wing

[Yorkshire pud]

Could somebody please tell me why the name of the shooter was released by us authorities to CBS and later confirmed by the CBC in Canada?  how the hell does our government tell the US first, let them pass it through the ranks until they release it to CBS?  Why not tell Canadians the information when it is going to end up in the public sphere?  There was absolutely no excuse for this today and out of everything, this is one of the things that pissed me off the most.  I know that they have to keep secrets for investigative purposes- but then keep secrets and do not force me to get my news from US media if i want to be up to date...

Is it possible the Canadian services released it to US believing the US wouldn't tell the press? How does it usually work in Canada? Over here they usually don't release the names of the suspects unless a) they've absconded before arrest, and they believe the public can help locate them-but the proviso is the public shouldn't go near them b) arrested c) killed by the police. But all that is usually managed by the police/military liaison officers, and/or the head shed in police command.

[Yorkshire pud]

Said the person who insists Mao's China, Stalin's Russia, and Barrack Obama are... right-wing

Yep. the first two were right wing fascists (because they didn't practice a communal state- Communist, the clue is in the name, no elites; Stalin even had Communist dissidents murdered because he saw them as a threat to the status quo), And Obama isn't left wing, not by any measure. Now, I know you think otherwise, but even compared with Thatcher, he isn't left wing.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

I really hate to argue the point- but i had no problems getting mine (they are legal.)  It was a matter of taking a course, applying for the permit and not having a criminal background nor an ex wife who hated me.  True, I could not just walk in and buy one- but waiting a month or two was not really very difficult.

Then I guess I stand corrected.  My impression was always that very few people could actually own one legally, and only if they could demonstrate need such a public figure who might be particularly vulnerable to threats and attacks.

For my own interest and partially to address MV's question, I looked up Canadian gun laws and got this fairly straightforward definition, in which any handgun that does not fall under the prohibited class is classified as restricted.

Permitted purposes for a restricted firearm

There are a few purposes for which individuals can be licensed to acquire or possess a restricted firearm, the most common being target practice or target shooting competitions, or as part of a collection.

In limited circumstances, restricted firearms are also allowed for use in connection with one's lawful profession or occupation, or to protect life.

Exception: Individuals who have a firearm that is registered to them as a relic under the former legislation may continue to possess it for that purpose. However, they cannot pass that designation on to the next owner. The next owner can acquire the firearm only for one of the purposes referred to above.

As set out in the Firearms Act, a relic firearm is one that is of value as a curiosity or rarity, or that is valued as a memento, remembrance or souvenir.

Criteria for each purpose

Depending on which purpose is claimed, there are specific criteria that must be met, as follows:

Target Shooting Practice and Competition

To be authorized to have restricted firearms for target shooting purposes, an individual must provide proof that he or she practices or competes at an approved shooting club or range...

Collectors of Restricted Firearms

To be authorized to have restricted firearms as part of a collection, an individual must:

    Know the historical, technical or scientific features of such firearms in their collection
    Consent to occasional inspections of the place where their collection is stored
    Comply with regulations dealing with safe storage, record-keeping and other matters related to restricted firearms


Employment Purposes and Protection of Life

In limited circumstances, an individual may be authorized to possess or acquire a restricted firearm for employment purposes or for protection of life.

This is in addition to safety training, registration, and authorization of transportation requirements.

So it seems you must meet a fairly high standard of demonstrating need or competence with a handgun.  I'm not sure what the US regulations are exactly, but I would feel better if everyone who owned one was required to practice with them regularly and develop a respect for the weapon.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

It won't stop anything. We have more guns than people in the US and even if we make it illegal, then it won't work. Pot is illegal here, federally, and, well, half of us smoke it (much of it grown in Canada and Mexico). It will be the same with guns because we culturally will not give them up even if they are illegal. We'll just hoard them and trade them like we do bags of pot. That means that anyone that's hyper-motivated to obtain a gun, will always be able to if they aren't concerned about laws and are persistent. It's like that in Canada, you have your gun nuts willing to do illegal things and if someone thinks God is mandating that they obtain a gun and pursue jihad, they will find a way.

That's a great point.  Guns are so prolific that imposing sudden restrictions wouldn't work.  It would have to be a very slow process of limiting access to specific types of weapons, restricting transport of loaded weapons, improving on accountability of gun owners, offering gun buy back programs, etc. which I guess is exactly what gun advocates fear is happening.  It's certainly a difficult situation and I don't think it's a good idea to suddenly create an imbalance of arms.  I don't really think classifying regional areas as gun-free zones is a great idea for that reason but I haven't taken a good look at the statistics.

We need to rethink culture, whether it be the American gun culture or the openness of the west to accept unbridled immigration regardless of ideology or Mexico's corruption, we need to take a bunch of taboos off the table and talk realistically about how we can solve these problems or we'll all end up worse off for no reason. Our assessment of culture needs to be realistic from now on, whether it's ditching political correctness or rethinking the gun culture, or we're fucked in the modern world.

We certainly need to be prudent.

That said, this week's events have been an awful thing, it's painful for an American to see terrorism in Canada just like it was painful for most Canadians to watch 9/11. I read some articles on Nathan Cirillo and it just pissed me off that a Canadian soldier like that with a family was killed at a war memorial.

Thank you.

[WOTR]

Then I guess I stand corrected.  My impression was always that very few people could actually own one legally, and only if they could demonstrate need such a public figure who might be particularly vulnerable to threats and attacks.

For my own interest and partially to address MV's question, I looked up Canadian gun laws and got this fairly straightforward definition, in which any handgun that does not fall under the prohibited class is classified as restricted.

This is in addition to safety training, registration, and authorization for transportation requirements.

So it seems you must meet a fairly high standard of demonstrating need or competence with a handgun.  I'm not sure what the US regulations are exactly, but I would feel better if everyone who owned one was required to practice with them regularly and develop a respect for the weapon.

That is about right.  My renewal just came and I have to declare myself a collector or a sports shooter.  To obtain authorization to transport I need to belong to a club.  By law, your handgun must remain with a trigger lock in a locked case and unloaded and only be transported from your residence to the range and back.  In theory, you cannot even stop for dinner (though many bend these parts.)

When you apply for the permit in the first place you can never say that you want one for self defense (in Canada, they are never to be used for such... just for target practice at an approved range.)  I can take a non restricted assault rifle into the woods and shoot cans or a 50 Cal (the barrel has to be over a certain length to be "non-restricted.") if I so choose, but not a 9mm handgun.  It is kind of funny.  Prohibited are guns with barrels less than 4 inches (or automatic or???)  Only people who owned them before the became prohibited are allowed to own them.

The right to carry is the one that is almost impossible to get up here.  A brinks guard, a policeman (both only while on duty).  In theory, anybody can apply to the chief firearms officer for a carry permit, but it is never granted.  The thing is that the chief firearms officer almost never sees a need.  I seem to recall that a judge managed to get permission years ago- but it is rare.

[PB the Deplorable]

Then I guess I stand corrected.  My impression was always that very few people could actually own one legally, and only if they could demonstrate need such a public figure who might be particularly vulnerable to threats and attacks...

That sounds like the requirements in many places for a concealed weapon permit - to carry it around with you in public, not gun ownership itself.

Here in California the various county sheriffs and city police depts issue the permits, and they are more difficult to get in some counties/cities (urban, more liberal), and easier to get in others (rural, more conservative)

[VtaGeezer]

No politics...just a touching image from the Halifax Chronicle Herald...

[FightTheFuture]

No politics...just a touching image from the Halifax Chronicle Herald...

Agreed.

[yumyumtree]

Listening to Stephen Harper made me wish we could trade Obama for him, even for a little while.  Maybe throw in a Keystone XL pipeline?

[Gd5150]

Listening to Stephen Harper made me wish we could trade Obama for him, even for a little while.  Maybe throw in a Keystone XL pipeline?

He's going to need a job in a few years, you guys should take him. Beings he has no other experience other than being a politician he'd probably jump at the chance. Soros money is all international so he won't mind. Would also save 25k a plate fundraiser attending Americans a fortune.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Listening to Stephen Harper made me wish we could trade Obama for him, even for a little while.  Maybe throw in a Keystone XL pipeline?

I think a lot of Canadians would take that deal.

[PB the Deplorable]

Listening to Stephen Harper made me wish we could trade Obama for him...

Obama is going to lead the ISIS Caliphate when he gets termed out here. 

[albrecht]

I'm assuming this latest incident by our friendly, and ever peaceful, Muslims will be considered "workplace violence" since soldier killed was on duty? 

[Uncle Duke]

The BBC (and I'm sure many other) website has a series of CCTV views of the shooter as he drives up to the Parliament Building and runs into the building.  The RCMP was in hot pursuit as soon as he got out of the car, Parliament security apparently engaged him almost as soon as he entered.  Looks like he was caught in a cross fire, that likely explains the high number of shots MPs and others reported.  The guy was a dead man as soon as he entered the building with that many officers taking him under fire.  Don't see how there can be any criticism of the officers involved based on the CCTV footage, they appeared to perform very professionally. 

Still unclear what type of weapon the shooter was carrying, saw one photo of him with what looked like a lever action rifle.  The caption for that photo does not say if it was taken yesterday or at some point in the past, however.

[albrecht]

The BBC (and I'm sure many other) website has a series of CCTV views of the shooter as he drives up to the Parliament Building and runs into the building.  The RCMP was in hot pursuit as soon as he got out of the car, Parliament security apparently engaged him almost as soon as he entered.  Looks like he was caught in a cross fire, that likely explains the high number of shots MPs and others reported.  The guy was a dead man as soon as he entered the building with that many officers taking him under fire.  Don't see how there can be any criticism of the officers involved based on the CCTV footage, they appeared to perform very professionally. 

Still unclear what type of weapon the shooter was carrying, saw one photo of him with what looked like a lever action rifle.  The caption for that photo does not say if it was taken yesterday or at some point in the past, however.

I saw news saying it was the sergeant-at-arms who got the "kill shot," sorry Ed Dames on mind, n likely saved others. Which is sort of neat because the position, usually these days,  Is mainly ceremonial.  I cant tell from cctv footage what weapon. Earlier speculation said shotgun but idk. Also early reports said multiple shooters.

[Uncle Duke]

I saw news saying it was the sergeant-at-arms who got the "kill shot," sorry Ed Dames on mind, n likely saved others. Which is sort of neat because the position, usually these days,  Is mainly ceremonial.  I cant tell from cctv footage what weapon. Earlier speculation said shotgun but idk. Also early reports said multiple shooters.

Only place I heard shotgun was a post here early yesterday.  If the soldier who was killed was shot point blank as was reported with a shotgun, hard to imagine there was enough of his upper torso intact on which to perform CPR. 

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Only place I heard shotgun was a post here early yesterday.  If the soldier who was killed was shot point blank as was reported with a shotgun, hard to imagine there was enough of his upper torso intact on which to perform CPR.

It wasn't a shotgun.  According to an RCMP news conference I watched today, it was a .30-30 Winchester lever action rifle.  I don't know what weapon took the suspect down in the end.

I also would like to note he was born a Canadian citizen, with a Libyan father (perhaps step-father) and a Canadian mother.  He appears to have had a host of criminal behaviours and metal disorders, and only to have become radicalized in the past few years.  He was being evaluated for a passport because he had claimed he wanted to go to Libya, but only yesterday police found out from his mother that he wanted to go to Syria.

[albrecht]

It wasn't a shotgun.  According to an RCMP news conference I watched today, it was a .30-30 Winchester lever action rifle.

Great. I guess the grabbers will go after those fine rifles now also.  But not, of course, address Islam or mental health policies. Really does anyone need a 30-30? This isnt the wild west and, after all, killing Bambi is so wrong.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Great. I guess the grabbers will go after those fine rifles now also.  But not, of course, address Islam or mental health policies. Really does anyone need a 30-30? This isnt the wild west and, after all, killing Bambi is so wrong.

No one is sure how he got it.  He was living in a Salvation Army and was banned from purchasing firearms.

[albrecht]

No one is sure how he got it.  He was living in a Salvation Army and was banned from purchasing firearms.

Something so obituqous and, until now, not usually associated with crimes or terrorism would likely be relatively easily obtained from family, private sale, stolen from someone's cabin or home, etc.

[VtaGeezer]

Great. I guess the grabbers will go after those fine rifles now also.  But not, of course, address Islam or mental health policies. Really does anyone need a 30-30? This isnt the wild west and, after all, killing Bambi is so wrong.

If he had access to a typical US gun show, he'd more likely have been armed with semi-auto .223 or an AK with high capacity magazines.  Seems more like an almost spontaneous act with little planning by a man not very familiar with firearms.  Don't worry...you can retrieve Dad's Model 94 from under the floorboards.  Gun safety advocates aren't after lever-action .30-30s. 

[paladin1991]

No politics...just a touching image from the Halifax Chronicle Herald...

I concurr.

[albrecht]

If he had access to a typical US gun show, he'd more likely have been armed with semi-auto .223 or an AK with high capacity magazines.  Seems more like an almost spontaneous act with little planning by a man not very familiar with firearms.  Don't worry...you can retrieve Dad's Model 94 from under the floorboards.  Gun safety advocates aren't after lever-action .30-30s.

But I already buried in slathered in cosmoline in a sealed pvc tube with dessicant due to Obama and this event!! No you tell me the grabbers not coming? Holes arent fun to dig and that grease is a pain to clean off.
Ps: if I had to make the bad choice id rather get shot with the .223 than the .30-.30. Granted for mayhem purposes the lighter, swifter round is better (why NATO uses it for primary weapon where casualties often more important than outright death.)

[pate]

Cosmoline and dessicant...  Why do you hate the Earth?