Man tased for walking while black

[RealCool Daddio]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/08/29/minnesota_taser_video_christopher_lollie_of_st_paul_tased_in_front_of_children.html

Must be the liberal media's fault.

[FightTheFuture]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/08/29/minnesota_taser_video_christopher_lollie_of_st_paul_tased_in_front_of_children.html

Must be the liberal media's fault.

I don`t know, just sounds like another idiot with a chip on his shoulder, going out of his way to initiate a confrontation with police for the sole purpose of attempting to illustrate some nonexistent ingrained racism with the police department of that particular municipality. It`s painfully contrived, and it certainly comes across as such, but far be it from me to impede you from wallowing in your white guilt. Wallow at will.

[SciFiAuthor]

Appears to be a much more legitimate case of police abuse than Ferguson. But since there wasn't a death and the charges were dropped, it's much less likely that the media will spin the narrative and turn it into something it wasn't. If he'd have been shot, they'd have started up the "gentle giant" narrative and incited a violent riot. But this won't get that attention. That's a shame, really, because the police in the video should have listened, asked the man questions, tried to calm the situation down and resolved it instead of flagrantly escalating it. Since they didn't, they should all be canned and the man should file civil suits and we should look at it and recognize it as the real problem with US police; they're heavy-handed, unreasonable and militant. Andy Taylor and Barney Fife they are not. 

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

But since there wasn't a death and the charges were dropped, it's much less likely that the media will spin the narrative and turn it into something it wasn't.

And therefore white America is mostly unaware of what black America already knows.  Completely unprofessional behaviour from the 2nd cop, who provoked a confrontation. 

Call the police!  There's a nigger sitting outside my store!!  He's actually kind of lucky that he didn't get shot.  Which is a really fucked up thing to be lucky about, if you think about it.

[Gd5150]

Dudes skin color was irrelevant, if you refuse to give a cop your id and challenge their authority you're gonna have a problem. It's a shame too, he was polite and well spoken for a colored boy.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

if you refuse to give a cop your id and challenge their authority you're gonna have a problem.

"Challenging authority" is kind of vague, but there is no legal requirement to provide ID to the police unless you are arrested.  The man was doing what he had every legal right to do in those circumstances: walk away calmly and decline to submit to search. 

I realize that you didn't talk about what's legal, but rather what will actually happen in a world where white policemen abuse their authority and harass black people.  I don't know why it is the responsibility of black people to relinquish their rights as citizens to compensate for bad behaviour by cops.  In a particular incident, it may be the best choice.  To demand or even suggest that they system work that way, though, is wrong.

[Foodlion]

I think since the whole Ferguson thing went off, the media is trying to keep some stories going for ratings purpose. I just found out that the VMAs gave Michael Brown a moment of silence. What does Michael Brown have to do with Video Music Awards? Reminds me of post 9/11 fake patriotism. I hate it when this country turns phony during a dramatic national event. I guess during these "sensitive" times, everyone MUCH chose their sides, or either be labeled as racist, or subhuman. What a bunch of bullshit in my opinion. I want no part of it.

[FightTheFuture]

The guy was trespassing in a private area for some time. Eventually the security guard politely asked him to leave. He refused. The female police officer was summoned. She was unable to get any cooperation from the individual as he was quickly walking away.She received backup from two other officers. They had every right, & I would argue, an obligation, to find out who this gentleman was, and why he was not cooperating. He continue to resist, and was subsequently taken to jail and charged with criminal trespassing, obstructing, and something else.

The government was kind enough to drop all the charges. However, the whole incident could have easily been avoided if Mr. Lollie would have exercised a little bit of common sense and just offered the minimum of co-operation by answering a couple of questions, which he was legally obligated to do.That's it, a couple of questions and he would have been on his way.  But, he had to be a real jerk, and the rest is history.

[Foodlion]

Dudes skin color was irrelevant, if you refuse to give a cop your id and challenge their authority you're gonna have a problem. It's a shame too, he was polite and well spoken for a colored boy.

Well, if I didn't commit a crime I won't give them my ID. If my friend is driving a car and I'm passenger, they will ALWAYS try to ID me, and usually I give in. I think next time they try that I'm going to look them in the face and say Sorry, I'm not the driver, and committed no crime, now I'd like to enjoy my right to silence and pursuit of happiness..

Is this unreasonable thing for me to do?

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Is this unreasonable thing for me to do?

You have the right to remain silent in that situation.  You should voice, calmly, that you intend to remain silent.  You may ask the police if you are free to leave, and if they say that you are, you can walk away.  Not sure what good that would do you since the driver and car are still being held, but that is the rule.  As for declining to show your ID, you are not compelled to do so if you are not under arrest, BUT, under those circumstances your status is entwined with that of the driver and it becomes more complex.  If you refuse to provide ID, the police can easily lie about it later, say that he felt you were behaving suspiciously, and your refusal compelled him to escalate the situation.  Remember that the law can't possibly protect you absolutely; it mainly allows you the opportunity for redress after the fact.  To use a golf analogy, your ball is sitting in the woods.  Are you going to punch out to the side, or try to thread it through those pines?  Personally, I would accept the fact that I am already in a troublesome situation and try to get out of it as smoothly and painlessly as possible, rather than standing on a point of principle.  Nothing good is going to come of that; you'll not change the world at all, and it could turn out quite badly for the wrong reasons.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

The guy was trespassing in a private area for some time. Eventually the security guard politely asked him to leave. He refused. The female police officer was summoned. She was unable to get any cooperation from the individual as he was quickly walking away.She received backup from two other officers. They had every right, & I would argue, an obligation, to find out who this gentleman was, and why he was not cooperating. He continue to resist, and was subsequently taken to jail and charged with criminal trespassing, obstructing, and something else.

The government was kind enough to drop all the charges. However, the whole incident could have easily been avoided if Mr. Lollie would have exercised a little bit of common sense and just offered the minimum of co-operation by answering a couple of questions, which he was legally obligated to do.That's it, a couple of questions and he would have been on his way.  But, he had to be a real jerk, and the rest is history.

Like nearly all conservatives, you're an ignorant motherfucker.  First, there is no trespassing from a legal standpoint unless there is notice clearly posted at the boundary line, which there was not (at least according to the victim and undisputed by the police).  Second, the security guard did not "politely" ask him to leave.  Why do you neocons need to make up shit like this?  If the story is compelling enough, why must you ALWAYS lie about the details?  Third, the officers had NO legal right to "find out" who this person was.  They either told him to move, or he was already moving, but either way he had not violated any laws and was not under arrest.  Fourth, they never tell him that he is under arrest.  They order him to physically submit and tase him because they were "afraid" of him, even though he makes no threatening moves or gestures, and asks them repeatedly to not escalate the situation.  Oh, and tells them about a billion times WHY he is there and where he is going -- to pick up his fuckin children.  Pretty sinister, eh?  Everyone knows black people eat their children or give them heroin, not take them to school.

Fifth, the government was not "kind" enough to drop the charges.  The charges were never valid in the first place.  It was a clear and undeniable act of abuse of authority.  Sixth, your silly assertion aside, he was under NO legal obligation to answer their questions.  You DO know about that thing called the Constitution, don't you?  There's other parts to it besides the Second Amendment -- you should try reading up on that sometime.

See how wrong you are?  Factually wrong?  No?  Figures.  Not all neocons are mouth-breathing ignorant retards, but it seems that most every mouth-breathing ignorant retard is a neocon.

[Gd5150]

Seems these days it's a great idea to leave your phone recording whenever having a confrontation with authorities. Also one might be smart enough to just show their ID, bite their tongue, and go about their business after 2min. Nope gotta throw attitude. And it's not a color thing, because if a stupid white person did this they'd have been treated the same way. Because stupid is stupid. Doesn't matter if the cops had the legal rights, that's life.

Maybe next he can challenge the constitutionality of the IRS.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

And it's not a color thing, because if a stupid white person did this they'd have been treated the same way.

Great!  Then it should be easy for you to back up this assertion by showing us a video of a similar circumstance involving a white man.

Or maybe you're just talking out of your ass.

[Yorkshire pud]

The guy was trespassing in a private area for some time. Eventually the security guard politely asked him to leave. He refused. The female police officer was summoned. She was unable to get any cooperation from the individual as he was quickly walking away.She received backup from two other officers. They had every right, & I would argue, an obligation, to find out who this gentleman was, and why he was not cooperating. He continue to resist, and was subsequently taken to jail and charged with criminal trespassing, obstructing, and something else.

The government was kind enough to drop all the charges. However, the whole incident could have easily been avoided if Mr. Lollie would have exercised a little bit of common sense and just offered the minimum of co-operation by answering a couple of questions, which he was legally obligated to do.That's it, a couple of questions and he would have been on his way.  But, he had to be a real jerk, and the rest is history.

Cute; for someone who comes on here banging on and on about how Obama is the antichrist and taking away your Constitutional rights, all of a sudden those gubberment storm troopers are all squishy benevolent teddy bears. You even take time to dress up the bullshit and imply the guy was a criminal having to prove his innocence! A US citizen is legally obligated to answer questions? Really? Where did you get that nugget from? Why didn't you just say he wasn't white and had it coming?

[PB the Deplorable]

I was pulled over for no reason just once in my life. 

My passenger was Puerto Rican.

The cop wanted to know what we were doing and to see our IDs.  It was BS.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

I was pulled over for no reason just once in my life. 

My passenger was Puerto Rican.

The cop wanted to know what we were doing and to see our IDs.  It was BS.

Interesting.  I used to drive through Beverly Hills on my way to a dance club nearby.  The only time that I got pulled over by Beverly Hills Finest was when I had a passenger with me.  A black female.

He checked out my license and registration, and her ID, and left without explaining why he pulled us over in the first place.

I'm SURE it had nothing to do with skin color, though.

[FightTheFuture]

Like nearly all conservatives, you're an ignorant motherfucker.  First, there is no trespassing from a legal standpoint unless there is notice clearly posted at the boundary line, which there was not (at least according to the victim and undisputed by the police).  Second, the security guard did not "politely" ask him to leave.  Why do you neocons need to make up shit like this?  If the story is compelling enough, why must you ALWAYS lie about the details?  Third, the officers had NO legal right to "find out" who this person was.  They either told him to move, or he was already moving, but either way he had not violated any laws and was not under arrest.  Fourth, they never tell him that he is under arrest.  They order him to physically submit and tase him because they were "afraid" of him, even though he makes no threatening moves or gestures, and asks them repeatedly to not escalate the situation.  Oh, and tells them about a billion times WHY he is there and where he is going -- to pick up his fuckin children.  Pretty sinister, eh?  Everyone knows black people eat their children or give them heroin, not take them to school.

Fifth, the government was not "kind" enough to drop the charges.  The charges were never valid in the first place.  It was a clear and undeniable act of abuse of authority.  Sixth, your silly assertion aside, he was under NO legal obligation to answer their questions.  You DO know about that thing called the Constitution, don't you?  There's other parts to it besides the Second Amendment -- you should try reading up on that sometime.

See how wrong you are?  Factually wrong?  No?  Figures.  Not all neocons are mouth-breathing ignorant retards, but it seems that most every mouth-breathing ignorant retard is a neocon.

Whew! There's some serious hatin' goin' on right there! (LOL)

No, seriously though, I'm absolutely right on every point. He was in a private area, it does not have to be marked, but once the security officer, acting on behalf of the business, or proprietor, informs the individual that it is a private area and he needs to move, he is, in fact,  trespassing if he refuses. I'm sorry ma'am, that's the law.

Oh, my assertion that the security officer politely asked him to leave? That's based on many years of interacting with people in that field, under very similar circumstances. Also, I've interacted with police officers for many years. They generally are very polite the first time they ask you to do something. Like, 99.99999% of the time. They generally don't want any trouble, and they just want to get through the day, or night, or what have you, and go home just like everybody else.


Now, once the police are summoned, they have every right in the world to stop you,  and ask you questions, and ascertain your identification. Again, that's the law. You don't have to like it, you just have to live with it, or get tasered and put in jail ( assuming you resist and are uncooperative, which this individual was).  I guess you can always petition lawmakers and have the law changed.


Beyond that, let's see.....oh, yeah, the guy was a real jerk, AND an idiot with a chip on his shoulder.

Now, turn that frown upside down, and have yourself a  lovely day.

[albrecht]

I've been pulled over twice due to racial profiling. In both cases it was when I was driving in the black part of town visiting a friend who had bought a house there and started the gentrification. Both times it was a night and I was asked "what I was doing in this neighborhood" (since obviously a white guy driving in the black part of town is looking for either hookers or drugs.) But I just showed my license, insurance, and wasn't mouthy so I didn't get tasered or beat up. But I was profiled. And, guess what? I didn't mind because probably >50% of the time the white guy in their 20s driving in that part of town at night IS looking for drugs or hookers. And that is the reason why the neighborhood is unsafe. Just as I would expect my police to give a once over to a black teenager driving in my neighborhood at night. Chances are there might be something going down.

[FightTheFuture]

Cute; for someone who comes on here banging on and on about how Obama is the antichrist and taking away your Constitutional rights, all of a sudden those gubberment storm troopers are all squishy benevolent teddy bears. You even take time to dress up the bullshit and imply the guy was a criminal having to prove his innocence! A US citizen is legally obligated to answer questions? Really? Where did you get that nugget from? Why didn't you just say he wasn't white and had it coming?

You're grossly misinformed on so many levels, I haven't even time to list them all. But, good try.

[RealCool Daddio]

Whew! There's some serious hatin' goin' on right there! (LOL)

No, seriously though, I'm absolutely right on every point.

...

Now, once the police are summoned, they have every right in the world to stop you,  and ask you questions, and ascertain your identification. Again, that's the law. You don't have to like it, you just have to live with it, or get tasered and put in jail ( assuming you resist and are uncooperative, which this individual was).  I guess you can always petition lawmakers and have the law changed.


Beyond that, let's see.....

Well, beyond that, you are just plain wrong.  Minnesota is NOT a Stop and ID state:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

But keep on telling yourself you know things, and stuff, and have a wonderful afternoon!

[Gd5150]

"police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion"

Someone refusing to show ID provides reasonable suspicion. By refusing they are also forcing police to waist their time when they could be doing something more productive. The solution is STFU and do as they say and save yourself the trouble.

The alternative is for no perceivable reason you secretly turn on your phone to record all audio/video because you couldn't possibly have a motive and try to bait the police for a bs civil lawsuit. CNN and MSNBC will happily slip the video into their 24/7 popnews cast and wala, you have the lemmings rioting in no time. Then some idiot will come to your defense on belgab and of course claim racism.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

He was in a private area, it does not have to be marked, but once the security officer, acting on behalf of the business, or proprietor, informs the individual that it is a private area and he needs to move, he is, in fact,  trespassing if he refuses. I'm sorry ma'am, that's the law.

By the Police department's own statement on the matter, Lollie had already left the area by the time of the arrival of the first officer..  The video shows him walking away and towards the school where his children are waiting.  So what is the violation of the law, again?  That he didn't leave quickly enough?  Yeah, that certainly justifies the way he was treated.  I hope he sues the socks off of those fascist motherfuckers.

Oh, my assertion that the security officer politely asked him to leave? That's based on many years of interacting with people in that field,

So you guessed, and presented it as a fact.  Thanks for your honesty, and we'll just let my characterization of "making up shit" stand.

Now, once the police are summoned, they have every right in the world to stop you,  and ask you questions, and ascertain your identification. Again, that's the law.

Perhaps where you live, but not in Minnesota, where this incident took place.  Minnesota doesn't have a 'stop and identify' law that would give police the right to arrest someone for identifying himself.  That's the law, cupcake, at least where, you know, all of this took place.

Beyond that, let's see.....oh, yeah, the guy was a real jerk, AND an idiot with a chip on his shoulder.

Damn, wouldn't you just know it?  There's no law in Minnesota against that either.  But never fear.  The Brownshirts you support tased him, left his children alone at the school, took him to jail, and confiscated his cell phone for six months.  They were afraid that he would run away, you see, and god only knows how many people would have been harmed if THAT happened.  No, tase that fucker and lock him up for backtalking.  That'll teach the uppity nigger, amiright?

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Someone refusing to show ID provides reasonable suspicion.

Jesus fucking Christ, do you neocons ever listen to yourselves?  He has every fuckin legal right under MN law to refuse to show ID!  How can his very refusal, which is legal, create a situation where he is demonstrating probable cause? 

You guys just slay me.  The party of law and order and personal liberty, that doesn't give two fucks for any law or any liberty that conflicts with the world the way you want it to be.

[Quick Karl]

I can't wait to see the YouTube of digitalpigmoron asserting his rights and getting pummeled for resisting arrest...

God I want to see that YouTube!

I had a falling out with a girlfriend once and I requested Police presence while she came to retrieve her belongings, and the dispatcher asked me if I owned guns, and I said yes, and when the Police arrived they asked me where my guns were, and I showed them my safe, and the Police were absolutely polite to me once they realized I was not their enemy.

I even wound up a shooting buddy with one of the officers that always wanted a Benelli M1 Super90, just like the pristine example in my safe, which he was drooling over!

8-rounds of 3" magnum 00 is just the thing for America-hating assholes!

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

the Police were absolutely polite to me once they realized I was white.

Fixed.

[Quick Karl]

Fixed.

I'm not white, asshole.

[FightTheFuture]

Well, beyond that, you are just plain wrong.  Minnesota is NOT a Stop and ID state:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

But keep on telling yourself you know things, and stuff, and have a wonderful afternoon!

Folks, this is a prime example of folks (him, and quite possibly, Mr Lollie) who think they know what they're talking about, vs. folks (me) who really do know what they are talking about.



The fact that Minnesota is not a, so called, ''Stop and ID'' state, has nothing at all, I repeat, nothing at all, to do with this case. In every state in this union, if the police have reasonable suspicion (which, in this case, they did), they can stop you (a Terry stop), detain you, and ascertain your  identification. If you refuse, you can be charged with obstructing.

Again, if you don't like the law, you can get your people together and form a petition and get with your law makers and try and change it. That's how the Constitution works.

[NowhereInTime]

I'm not white, asshole.

You just have a white asshole.  From all the pig fucking.

[Quick Karl]

In every state in this union, if the police have reasonable suspicion (which, in this case, they did), they can stop you (a Terry stop), detain you, and ascertain your  identification. If you refuse, you can be charged with obstructing.

Great post FTF, as always!

The problem here is that you are debating children that believe they know Constitutional law, just because they want to make-believe they do.

I'd love to see one of these morons arguing their case in a court room...

[FightTheFuture]

**Addendum to previous post**

Add the pig person to those that think they know what they're talking about.