Trolling as "performance art"?

[Tarbaby]

Trolling as "Performance Art"?

Trolling has long been discouraged and is usually disallowed becauseIMO it contributes to a gradual erosion of healthy social integrity and trust. When trollers treat people as objects, foils, and strawmen to be ridiculed or knocked down it's a blatant form of sociopathism. With no concern for the feelings of others.

Do you think trolling should be allowed on a social milieu under the guise of "performance art"?
(I should add that this issue has its origin yesterday on the latest "SpecSheet podcast where a banned member pleaded this case.)

[Yorkshire pud]

Trolling as "Performance Art"?

Trolling has long been discouraged and is usually disallowed becauseIMO it contributes to a gradual erosion of healthy social integrity and trust. When trollers treat people as objects, foils, and strawmen to be ridiculed or knocked down it's a blatant form of sociopathism. With no concern for the feelings of others.

Do you think trolling should be allowed on a social milieu under the guise of "performance art"?

No, it should be disallowed and met with disemboweling with prejudice. If that isn't a deterrent, then dropping into a lake (in winter) from a helicopter from 200 feet..if they can swim ashore they can keep their router.

[albrecht]

Trolling as "Performance Art"?

Trolling has long been discouraged and is usually disallowed becauseIMO it contributes to a gradual erosion of healthy social integrity and trust. When trollers treat people as objects, foils, and strawmen to be ridiculed or knocked down it's a blatant form of sociopathism. With no concern for the feelings of others.

Do you think trolling should be allowed on a social milieu under the guise of "performance art"?

No, because as Homer would say: "Everyone hates art, that's why they lock it up at museums where no one will ever visit." Kidding. But I do hate the word "milieu." Had it heard it over-used in some class decades ago and ever since associate with a pompous, know-it-all grad student teaching assistant.
But I don't mind trolling. You can always ignore people or just not read, as if there is any healthy social integrity and trust left, except maybe locally, anyway.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

IMO

When you see this "tell," it's a sure tipoff that what follows is coming from somebody who has no game.

[yumyumtree]

When you see this "tell," it's a sure tipoff that what follows is coming from somebody who has no game.

Seriously? I will have to stop using this acronym, maybe. I suppose IMHO is worse.

But in answer to the original question, no. There's too much performance art around anyway, most of it bad, and they'll want NEA funding.

[West of the Rockies]

A thousand times NO.  We don't sign up here to read your not so clever crap.  You want to start your own blog or forum where you can share your wit and wisdom and disdain for everyone who isn't you or in your special club, go for it.  It's like putting shitty graffiti on someone's house.  Do that crap to your own place. ("You" here refers to trolls.)

[Tarbaby]

Albrecht,Sometimes"milieu" is the word that comes to mind. Once I learn all the words you don't like I can try to avoid them. ;-) "

YP: I don't think disemboweling is involved. It's just a question of reinstatement or not.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Seriously? I will have to stop using this acronym, maybe. I suppose IMHO is worse.

I meant in the context of talking about trolling, and more specifically, denouncing it.

The problem is that most people DO consider it an art form, or something similar.  It isn't; it's a sport, like gladiatorial combat with condemned criminals.  Once you realize that, you can choose which group suits you best: gamer, gamee, or spectator.

Once trolling is elevated to its proper place in the pantheon of professional sports, and MB and I get our fuck-you money contracts, sports jerseys, and endorsement deals, all will be right in the world.  Oh, I forgot about the groupies.  Rest assured they will not be denied.

[Tarbaby]

When you see this "tell," it's a sure tipoff that what follows is coming from somebody who has no game.

care to elaborate? On impulse Iadded IMP because I didn't want MV to think I was usurping his milieu. Again, as with Albrecht, if you submit a list of words to me that you would like me to eschew I will consider placating you. I don't live in the Zona Roja  so don't know what "baby got game" means. ;-)

[Kelt]

As someone who has done quite a bit of Trolling in the past, there's a definite art to it.

Sure,you could just respond to someone's post with, "You're a fucking idiot."  and you'll be guaranteed a ragepost in response, but where's the craft?  Where's the subtlety? Where's the leading of a victim along a cunningly paved path to complete emotional and mental breakdown?

It used to be you would routinely see some incredible feats of Trolling, where the easily upset were were preyed upon by Trolls who took some pride in their work. 

These days Trolling is largely kids posting, "U fukin suck." to which the victim will respond, "no u fucin suck. I banged your mom." Absolutely no art whatsoever.

I blame the internet.

[Tarbaby]

A thousand times NO.  We don't sign up here to read your not so clever crap.  You want to start your own blog or forum where you can share your wit and wisdom and disdain for everyone who isn't you or in your special club, go for it.  It's like putting shitty graffiti on someone's house.  Do that crap to your own place. ("You" here refers to trolls.)

May I ask if you are referring to me… or Jackstar? I am keeping track of where people stand.;-) :-)

[West of the Rockies]

Maybe I am not reading your posts closely, TB--I get no troll vibe from you.  Maybe you're doing it wrong! 😉

[Tarbaby]

I ain't got me no game! (sob)

[onan]

You guys suck.

[West of the Rockies]

My beef with Jackstar was the volume of stuff:  fifty posts in two days, comments on every bloody thread. Were he especially fascinating, that would be great.  He was ninety percent smug snark.

[Tarbaby]

You guys suck.

where were you yesterday, young man?

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

As someone who has done quite a bit of Trolling in the past, there's a definite art to it.

As there is in all sports that are played skillfully.

Here's the distinction: in art, success is measured by the esteem that the viewers have for your work.  In a general sense, the more approval, the more successful is your effort. 

In sports, you measure success by approval of those that like you, and the hateration of those who don't.  In both cases, the magnitude of those sentiment rises as you perform more skillfully.  And so it goes with trolling.

[Tarbaby]

Yes, I do somewhat understand your perspective. You didn't get much chance to elaborate or clarify it on the podcast yesterday. But do you see my side?[A sociopath never seems to glimpse his own lack of empathy. Not saying you… I mean jackster  is one but the sweeping social reaction seems to suggest it. IE, he is perceived that way. And if both sides are not feeling the humanity in each other well, I guess your "game" is deficient.  quote author=DigitalPigSnuggler link=topic=6446.msg280756#msg280756 date=1406138937]
As there is in all sports that are played skillfully.

Here's the distinction: in art, success is measured by the esteem that the viewers have for your work.  In a general sense, the more approval, the more successful is your effort. 

In sports, you measure success by approval of those that like you, and the hateration of those who don't.  In both cases, the magnitude of those sentiment rises as you perform more skillfully.  And so it goes with trolling.
[/quote] yes, these dynamics I already knew. I guess I've just been too isolated to notice if/when trolling became the least bit honorable.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Yes, I do somewhat understand your perspective. You didn't get much chance to elaborate or clarify it on the podcast yesterday. But do you see my side?[A sociopath never seems to glimpse his own lack of empathy. Not saying you… I mean jackster  is one but the sweeping social reaction seems to suggest it. IE, he is perceived that way. And if both sides are not feeling the humanity in each other well, I guess your "game" is deficient. 

I don't know if this was supposed to be directed at me, but I was not on the podcast yesterday.  It's really difficult to follow your thoughts with that messed up formatting.

I guess I've just been too isolated to notice if/when trolling became the least bit honorable.

So was that the point of starting this thread, to find a way to make trolling "honorable"?  Or were you just trying to create an excuse for bashing it?  Is it "honorable" to create a thread with such deceptive intent?

In addition to "IMO," another tell is when the person who can't compete in the trolling game takes the sour grapes approach of making it a matter of morality, with said no-gamer assuming the role of the elevated being. 

It's really quite simple: if you can't compete, then don't play.  And so long as you keep it to yourself, nobody will know.

[Kelt]

Yes, I do somewhat understand your perspective. You didn't get much chance to elaborate or clarify it on the podcast yesterday. But do you see my side?[A sociopath never seems to glimpse his own lack of empathy. Not saying you… I mean jackster  is one but the sweeping social reaction seems to suggest it. IE, he is perceived that way. And if both sides are not feeling the humanity in each other well, I guess your "game" is deficient.  quote author=DigitalPigSnuggler link=topic=6446.msg280756#msg280756 date=1406138937]
As there is in all sports that are played skillfully.

Here's the distinction: in art, success is measured by the esteem that the viewers have for your work.  In a general sense, the more approval, the more successful is your effort. 

In sports, you measure success by approval of those that like you, and the hateration of those who don't.  In both cases, the magnitude of those sentiment rises as you perform more skillfully.  And so it goes with trolling.
yes, these dynamics I already knew. I guess I've just been too isolated to notice if/when trolling became the least bit honorable.

While I've a few issues with your theories, I'll raise the final sentence there as one of the more salient, and easily addressed, issues.

Stormfront, for example, is a racist, anti-semitic site, populated by shaven-headed goons who have gathered together for the express purpose of denigrating 'Those Not Like Them'.

Hot topics include things like, "When will we got our own Gleichschaltung", "Ask a Klan Member".. that kind of thing.

Tell me, then, that it wouldn't be honorable to log in under a pseudonym and Troll the piss out of them.

Back in my student days there was a meeting of Combat 18, to explain their 'philosophies' and goals to anyone with a strong enough stomach to listen to their racist bullshit. Trolling was done in person, but I assure you much, much Trolling was done in that hall. 

Trolling of Stormfront would merely be the digital equivalent of disrupting a Town Hall meeting.

I say it's not only honorable, it's absolutely essential.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

I say it's not only honorable, it's absolutely essential.

You're just falling for his troll. 

Professional sports is about demonstrating your superiority over your opponent at a particular moment in time.  It's the same thing with trolling.  Yet no one would seriously argue that professional sports should be eradicated or banned from certain venues because they aren't "honorable."  You'd be laughed right out of the fuckin ballpark, even though pro sports are not in any way honorable.  The salient objective is winning, not showing what a morally superior person you are.  If that's what moves you, there's always the clergy.

No, all of this hokum about "honor" is just sour grapes from those who can't compete, or who aren't interested in the first place.

[FightTheFuture]

Professional sports is about demonstrating your superiority over your opponent at a particular moment in time.

Not exactly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fy8t3HYZp4

[MagnificentBastard]

Do you think trolling should be allowed on a social milieu under the guise of "performance art"?
(I should add that this issue has its origin yesterday on the latest "SpecSheet podcast where a banned member pleaded this case.)

When I was a baby, my daddy used to take me trolling on his boat, but he never did nothing mean to me. Then on the interweb trolling started to mean being rude to people. I never liked that because people think I'm stupid before they get to know me, so I get bullied a lot. I learnt that people troll people that they are stupid, so I tried it once but I met the guy in real life to try and troll him and he showed up with a gay friend and a Filipino who had me slipping around in a puddle of duck poo with a bunch of Mexicans and then he tried to get me addicted to drugs. I found out later that he was a tranny sexual that had spent a lot of years in prison. After that I didn't troll anymore.

[FightTheFuture]

When I was a baby, my daddy used to take me trolling on his boat, but he never did nothing mean to me. Then on the interweb trolling started to mean being rude to people. I never liked that because people think I'm stupid before they get to know me, so I get bullied a lot. I learnt that people troll people that they are stupid, so I tried it once but I met the guy in real life to try and troll him and he showed up with a gay friend and a Filipino who had me slipping around in a puddle of duck poo with a bunch of Mexicans and then he tried to get me addicted to drugs. I found out later that he was a tranny sexual that had spent a lot of years in prison. After that I didn't troll anymore.

That`s 30 seconds I`ll never get back again.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

I met the guy in real life to try and troll him and he showed up with a gay friend and a Filipino who had me slipping around in a puddle of duck poo with a bunch of Mexicans and then he tried to get me addicted to drugs. I found out later that he was a tranny sexual that had spent a lot of years in prison.

And that's when you created the Craigslist post advertising advertising as ladyboy escort ("bodybuilders free") using the phone number that he innocently and honorably provided to you in case you got lost trying to find the bar.

As if you would ever get lost looking for a bar.

[Kelt]

That`s 30 seconds I`ll never get back again.

Relax... when George is Pres you can just pop through a portal and get back as many hours in the day as you require.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

That`s 30 seconds I`ll never get back again.

Good point.  Better to spend one's time looking at a youtube video of Al Davis saying "Just win baby" as a rebuttal to the notion that sports is about winning.  That's unquestionably a good use of everyone's time.

[Yorkshire pud]

While I've a few issues with your theories, I'll raise the final sentence there as one of the more salient, and easily addressed, issues.

Stormfront, for example, is a racist, anti-semitic site, populated by shaven-headed goons who have gathered together for the express purpose of denigrating 'Those Not Like Them'.

Hot topics include things like, "When will we got our own Gleichschaltung", "Ask a Klan Member".. that kind of thing.

Tell me, then, that it wouldn't be honorable to log in under a pseudonym and Troll the piss out of them.

Back in my student days there was a meeting of Combat 18, to explain their 'philosophies' and goals to anyone with a strong enough stomach to listen to their racist bullshit. Trolling was done in person, but I assure you much, much Trolling was done in that hall. 

Trolling of Stormfront would merely be the digital equivalent of disrupting a Town Hall meeting.

I say it's not only honorable, it's absolutely essential.

Is that strictly tolling though? Maybe more goading the fuckwit?

I take exception to CT's who dump their shit on forums about (insert latest disaster) being caused by numbers, NWO, Aliens, etc...those pricks who do it, and take it further as in one case going to Sandy Hook and telling a mother she didn't lose her daughter should be disemboweled. Publically, with prejudice.

I've been accused of trolling when I told a fuckwit on YT that his photograph of 'two suns' wasn't. He went on to say he was a graduate in cinema photography..Which throws up two and not mutually exclusive probabilities: 1) The standard of graduate in his year wasn't that high, and secondly he's just an idiot who laid his tutor. Apparently I was still a troll after pointing out in technical terms why he was wrong about it being two suns on his video.

[FightTheFuture]

Good point.  Better to spend one's time looking at a youtube video of Al Davis saying "Just win baby" as a rebuttal to the notion that sports is about winning.  That's unquestionably a good use of everyone's time.

Yes...by God, I think you`ve got it!

Welcome home.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

I've been accused of trolling when I told a fuckwit on YT that his photograph of 'two suns' wasn't. He went on to say he was a graduate in cinema photography..Which throws up two and not mutually exclusive probabilities: 1) The standard of graduate in his year wasn't that high, and secondly he's just an idiot who laid his tutor. Apparently I was still a troll after pointing out in technical terms why he was wrong about it being two suns on his video.

I feel your pain, buddie.  I did more than my share to rid this august forum of excessive box-fanning.  Does anyone appreciate it?  Fuck no.  Instead of hosannas I got a six month vacation to Getthefuckoutofhereville.

A prophet is not without honor except in his own land.  I think that's from the bible, so don't try to argue with it.