Cruz and Beck down Mexico way

[yumyumtree]

So now certain nasty mouth parties are hating on Glenn Beck and Ted. Cruz for humanitarian activities with children on the border. They don't believe that you can be staunchly opposed to open borders but still have compassion for young children and other vulnerable people. But Ive been listening to Becks show a lot lately and think he's made a good case for what he's doing. I have all but quit Free Republic because of the ugly stuff on there about this issue, and some others. Yesterday Mark Levin defended Cruz and Beck. Michael Savage, who I seldom listen to anymore, said Cruz had just ruined his political career and Beck is a charlatan.

[albrecht]

So now certain nasty mouth parties are hating on Glenn Beck and Ted. Cruz for humanitarian activities with children on the border. They don't believe that you can be staunchly opposed to open borders but still have compassion for young children and other vulnerable people. But Ive been listening to Becks show a lot lately and think he's made a good case for what he's doing. I have all but quit Free Republic because of the ugly stuff on there about this issue, and some others. Yesterday Mark Levin defended Cruz and Beck. Michael Savage, who I seldom listen to anymore, said Cruz had just ruined his political career and Beck is a charlatan.

I'm not a fan of Beck, the man seems to cry quite easily, but I like the idea of creating your own demand if your views won't cut it on mainstream networks. As for Cruz, I like his stands for 2nd Amendment and most of his views, on paper, but I still get a smarmy lawyer-like feeling from him sometimes.

I'm not sure the agenda but I think they do have a point here. One can care about children (heck even adults) who are diseased, been abused, or are missing their family and still say they need to be deported and that the border should be secure. Simply saying "secure the border" without acknowledging the problem already here or callously saying "no help, just ship back a child and dump him off in Guatemala" is not humane or going to be a popular with most Americans.

[yumyumtree]

I pretty much agree. I'm getting really tired of this idea of condemning people just because they do something once in awhile that you wouldn't. Fortunately some decent people are speaking up on Free Republic but I'm tired of these Internet Tough Guys( a lot of whom I suspect  aren't that tough in real life) jumping to the conclusion that somebody must have been threatened or there's some other conspiracy at work just because somebody doesn't take the position they want. You should have seen the name calling during the Cliven Bundy affair. (Maybe you did if you visit Free Republic.)
Savage in particular is in no position to preach after all the crazy stuff he's done and said.

[Quick Karl]

I've always had the opinion that Glen Beck is a nut-job, even when he has "said things that I agree with" - but I've never believed he was legitimate.

I like Ted Cruz because, according to Cruz's Harvard Law Professor, Alan Dershowitz:

"One of the sharpest students I've had in terms of analytic skills. I’ve had 10,000 students in my 50 years at Harvard. I write all about that in my book “Taking the Stand,” and I write about my great students. He has to qualify among the brightest of the students".

"I think he deeply believes what he's doing. I don't think of him so much as a tactical or strategic thinker. He’s deeply principled. He thinks he's doing the right thing. That doesn't mean it's the right thing, and he’s very hard to get off that principled argument. I saw that years ago when he was a student. He was not a compromiser. He was not somebody who tried to make friends by accepting what was then the political correctness of the day. If you want to defeat Ted Cruz, you have to appeal to his principles not to his tactics".

And lastly, Ted Cruz actually loves America and doesn't want to destroy it...

[VtaGeezer]

Beck and Cruz are transparent panderers.  Beck killed a rising career as a demagogue by overdosing on political extremism as fact, and hosting parias from the fringe political and religious right as authorities. He's is now on a "Oh how sensible I've become" rebuilding tour, but manipulative and ego-driven as ever.  Cruz is just another Joe McCarthy, but more media savvy. His rabidly rightwing old man infected him early.  Both are symptoms rather than cures.

[yumyumtree]

I don't even know where to start with that. Anybody else want to take it?

[pyewacket]

I'm not a Beck fan and I'm lukewarm about Cruz. I'm tired of all the posturing on the right and the left. I don't identify with either party- they've both betrayed the best interests of the country and our people.

No one wants to see anyone suffering or being abused- but this was encouraged on both sides of the border. Handing out teddy bears and soccer balls is a nice photo op but it hardly addresses any of the real issues. I agree that they should be fed and given medical treatment but they need to be sent home ASAP. The law they are exploiting needs to be changed or rescinded. If the Latin American governments will not stop their citizens - then we need to sanction them and withdrawal all monetary aid until they comply and respect our border and our laws.

I've watched Beck over a good number of years and he is always floating a new persona. He's consistent with certain issues- but he always comes off as a smarmy snake oil salesman to me. Just my 2 cents.   

[pyewacket]

I have the radio on for background noise when I'm busy doing other things- Glenn Beck's show used to be really funny before he turned to politics and the ultra religious persona. Moron trivia was a favorite.

Now his show is just one big, ongoing telethon- constantly raising money for many causes. IDK- hard to tell when it stops being all about Glenn and how much he cares or about pushing one promotional tour after another. I end up turning the radio off and playing some music instead.   

[WildCard]

Ted Cruz: Barack Obama using FAA in ‘economic boycott of Israel’
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/ted-cruz-barack-obama-israelfaa-109294.html#ixzz38PGaHviy

Fuck their tourism industry! Maybe if they stopped bombing hospitals and killing brown people the flights would resume.

[yumyumtree]

I've been listening to Beck off and on for 7 or 8 years. I actually dislike the morning zoo schtick but also distrusted him a bit on serious issues. He seemed to have demogoguic tendencies and a mentally unstable vibe. I didnt like his hyping of people like W. Cleon Skousen and David Barton. Like Rush some of the time, his lack of formal education sometimes showed through when he got out of his depth on certain issues. All that being said, I like him better now that he's off FOX. Whether he's matured, found himself or what, I don't know.
Ted Cruz I just instinctively like. I'm not sure why. I know hes not popular with other senators, but I like that he doesn't seem to care. Are you familiar with Alan Dershowitz' comments on Cruz, his old pupil?
Don't be too quick to assume that NOBODY has an inhumane attitude toward the kids on the border. Have you read some of the Free Republic forum posts on this? This is the kind of thing Beck is trying to counteract. Some of the stuff they have to say about him there is pretty unkind. Many of them already were condemning him because he had taken a slightly wrong position  on some issue to do with gays or something. Some( not all, but enough) of these people are meaner than shit. And they live in a fantasy world, where compromise has no place. Some of these people must be ton if fun to be married to or work with.

[Quick Karl]

Ted Cruz: Barack Obama using FAA in ‘economic boycott of Israel’
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/ted-cruz-barack-obama-israelfaa-109294.html#ixzz38PGaHviy

Fuck their tourism industry! Maybe if they stopped bombing hospitals and killing brown people the flights would resume.

I hope all of the neighbors surrounding your house decide that because America once belonged to the Native Americans, you should get the fuck out, and threaten to kill you and your family if you don't, and lob a few homemade bombs at you once in a while when the media is reporting something else and your enemies aren't getting the attention they demand...

Let's see how kind and considerate you are then.

Certainly I am no defender of Jews that manipulate Law, Financial, and Justice Systems, to fuck people out of their money (no mater what color the victims are) - but anyone that thinks the Jews are just going to "move out" of Israel, is a fucking blistering idiot, AND a moron.

I suppose you support female circumcision too? http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/24/us-iraq-security-fgm-idUSKBN0FT1I020140724?feedType=RSS the kind of sick shit you support when you support a stone-aged culture that legitimizes vicious surprise attacks on innocent citizens.

[pyewacket]

I don't know enough about Cruz- I'm interested in what he has to say. Beck is just too wacky for me to take seriously. If he does some good- then I'm glad that he helped some people.

[WildCard]

Certainly I am no defender of Jews that manipulate Law, Financial, and Justice Systems, to fuck people out of their money (no mater what color the victims are) - but anyone that thinks the Jews are just going to "move out" of Israel, is a fucking blistering idiot, AND a moron.

I agree. Nor should they. If a Zionist is someone who believes Jews have a right to a homeland, then color me Zionist.

Would you agree that the Palestinians have a right to a homeland?
Everybody pays lip service to a two-state solution but when the rubber meets the road, it never happens. When it came up for a vote in the U.N., early in Obama's first term, we voted no. Yet another thing I'm pissed at Obama about.

I suppose you support female circumcision too? http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/24/us-iraq-security-fgm-idUSKBN0FT1I020140724?feedType=RSS the kind of sick shit you support when you support a stone-aged culture that legitimizes vicious surprise attacks on innocent citizens.

Yes, I'm aware of female circumcision. There's no basis for that in any of the Islamic scriptures. It's cultural, not religious.

I'd be willing to bet your Islamophobia isn't that much higher than mine. (I don't/can't believe you really want every man, woman and child who enters a Mosque murdered.)

When I was a kid, I read an ad in "Soldier of Fortune" for mercenaries to fight with the Afghans against the Russian invaders. I thought that would just be the coolest thing ever.

Fast forward about thirty years and these filthy, savage animals are destroying Buddhist statues 50 meters tall, dating back to the 11th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan

That's when I started hating Islam. Of the five major world religions, I still believe Islam is the worst, (with the notable exception of Sufism, which is awesome).

But, history doesn't justify your/our Islamophobia. See Saladin, Suleiman or just wiki Islam.

On a personal, anecdotal level, have you ever met a Muslim you hated? I've yet to meet one that I didn't like.

[Quick Karl]

I agree. Nor should they. If a Zionist is someone who believes Jews have a right to a homeland, then color me Zionist.

Would you agree that the Palestinians have a right to a homeland?
Everybody pays lip service to a two-state solution but when the rubber meets the road, it never happens. When it came up for a vote in the U.N., early in Obama's first term, we voted no. Yet another thing I'm pissed at Obama about.Yes, I'm aware of female circumcision. There's no basis for that in any of the Islamic scriptures. It's cultural, not religious.

I'd be willing to bet your Islamophobia isn't that much higher than mine. (I don't/can't believe you really want every man, woman and child who enters a Mosque murdered.)

When I was a kid, I read an ad in "Soldier of Fortune" for mercenaries to fight with the Afghans against the Russian invaders. I thought that would just be the coolest thing ever.

Fast forward about thirty years and these filthy, savage animals are destroying Buddhist statues 50 meters tall, dating back to the 11th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan

That's when I started hating Islam. Of the five major world religions, I still believe Islam is the worst, (with the notable exception of Sufism, which is awesome).

But, history doesn't justify your/our Islamophobia. See Saladin, Suleiman or just wiki Islam.

On a personal, anecdotal level, have you ever met a Muslim you hated? I've yet to meet one that I didn't like.

Salahuddin is a far cry from the Islamist-psychopaths of today -- the Third Crusade is a particularly favored subject of mine.

I worked for a Saudi that gave me my first Qur'an to read - he was a gentleman in every sense, but the Qur'an does indeed call for the murder of non-believers (infidels). Until the Muslims of the world begin to denounce the actions of their bloodthirsty brothers, I'm calling them collaborators. And fuck, they printed their Holy Book bass akwards so what does that tell ya?

Arabs hate the Palestinians even more than most Israelis do...If, God Forbid, The Jews are ever forced to flee Israel, the Arabs will treat the Palestinians worse than dog shit.

Anyone that believes the Jews will leave Israel without turning the Middle East into a glass parking lot, is a fucking blistering fool the likes of which is almost impossible to believe could actually exist without their imploding from stupidity.

[WOTR]

I like Ted Cruz because, according to Cruz's Harvard Law Professor, Alan Dershowitz:

Just have to check here... Harvard is generally considered a university (and I seem to recall that you have a strong dislike of universities..)  Aside from you agreeing with his positions, what makes this Harvard educated lawyer better than the other university educated people you generally dislike?

Harvard and Yale Law Schools, and every other Institute of Higher CorruptionLearning in the America, do not teach Justice, they teach how to win, REGARDLESS of Justice - and in some twisted teacher's empty head, that EQUALS Justice.

Harvard and Yale teach Wall Street titans, politicians, and lawyers, NOT how to do justice, but how to win. That is where the tap-root of our social problems in America is getting its nourishment from.

I ask because there have been quite a number of blanket statements declaring the elite university educated people to be brainwashed, evil leaches.  Suddenly, Allan Dershowitz says this guy was one of his best students and suddenly that is a positive and this guy holds some appeal?

[analog kid]

I don't know enough about Cruz- I'm interested in what he has to say. Beck is just too wacky for me to take seriously. If he does some good- then I'm glad that he helped some people.

Ted Cruz scares the shit out of me. Dominionist, fundamentalist, highly intelligent, yet batshit insane. If there's anyone in the country who can hasten fascism it's this guy. Latino Canadian pretending to be a Southern evangelical. Though I do take comfort in the fact that he's never going to get in the White House. He's way too creepy for middle America and he'll crash and burn before he gets to the primaries.

[pyewacket]

Ted Cruz scares the shit out of me. Dominionist, fundamentalist, highly intelligent, yet batshit insane. If there's anyone in the country who can hasten fascism it's this guy. Latino Canadian pretending to be a Southern evangelical. Though I do take comfort in the fact that he's never going to get in the White House. He's way too creepy for middle America and he'll crash and burn before he gets to the primaries.

I thought he must be very religious leaning by some of the people supporting him. I'm not a religious person but I do think there is a power greater than us- just not as depicted by organized religion. No offence intended to the religious folks.

It pains me to see how badly our political system has been corrupted by special, foreign, and corporate interests. We've veered so far from the original intentions of our once representative republic. We, the people, are no longer a concern of the career politicians. 

[NowhereInTime]

I thought he must be very religious leaning by some of the people supporting him. I'm not a religious person but I do think there is a power greater than us- just not as depicted by organized religion. No offence intended to the religious folks.

It pains me to see how badly our political system has been corrupted by special, foreign, and corporate interests. We've veered so far from the original intentions of our once representative republic. We, the people, are no longer a concern of the career politicians. 

I used to be vehemently opposed to term limits (philosophically still am) but I've completely reversed myself in light of how many political lifers are sticking around in legislatures throughout the country.  You do need experienced people, but not 10 term House or 4 term Senators. 
I think forcing the turnover would limit the comfort and convenience level of lobbyists and give Americans more choice at election time.
That and either abolishing parties or forcing open primaries.

(For the record, I figure 4 House terms and 2 Senate terms should be enough.)

[yumyumtree]

I still don't support term limits, though I certainly understand the frustration. It's similar to the campaign finance regulations--the more onerous they make them, the more the politicians and special interests circumvent them, and it's because of the power government has in people's lives. Think about it. The founding fathers did not have to deal with this. Now as far as primaries go, I used to undecided, but after the disgraceful episode in  Mississippi I'm for closed primaries.

I knew that I had seen the Dershowitz story referenced recently when I referenced it, then realized it was Quick Karl, in the same thread! Forgive me, Ive been under a lot of stress lately. I had heard the story before. Why do those of us who often don't care what Ivy League types think like this? It's because it shows that Cruz gets respect from those who don't share most of his ideology. Dershowitz is considered to be a lot more intellectually honest than most on the left. So maybe it actually says as much about him as it does Cruz.

Now as far as the anti-education thing goes, I won't speak for Quick Karl or anybody else, just me. I was around a lot of people with that attitude growing up, and could see how silly it was, so am not part of that crowd. That being said, I consider the higher education establishment to be to blame for a lot of what's wrong with society. For example, why do people need advanced degrees for jobs that a high school degree used to be adequate for 40 or 50 years ago? Then there's the whole student loan disaster, which may be the thing that finally makes people suspect the emporer has no clothes.

But let's put it this way--if I'm getting open heart surgery, I want the doctor who went to the prestigious school.

[West of the Rockies]

Ted Cruz scares the shit out of me. Dominionist, fundamentalist, highly intelligent, yet batshit insane. If there's anyone in the country who can hasten fascism it's this guy. Latino Canadian pretending to be a Southern evangelical. Though I do take comfort in the fact that he's never going to get in the White House. He's way too creepy for middle America and he'll crash and burn before he gets to the primaries.

He reminds me in appearance of the junior senator from Wisconsin, Tailgunner Joe.  I get a creepy vibe from the guy.  I am sure some here got/get a similar creep factor from Hillary and others.  My point is not to piss on conservatives, but I do believe Ted will be seen as too strange for most voters.  Blame the media if you will, but at least consider Cruz's personality.

[VtaGeezer]

Cruz is scary; brilliant, self-absorbed, and probably more extremist in his positions than any high level American politician in generations.  History shows that intellect is absolutely no measure of decency and morality.  Having Dershowitz's admiration is no badge of honor. Cruz is either a would-be despot with an infallibility complex or a burn-it-all zealot.  Either way, he's going to leave wreckage we'll deal with for a long time.  Texas will regret this slimy character is one of theirs.

[Quick Karl]

Ted Cruz scares the shit out of me. Dominionist, fundamentalist, highly intelligent, yet batshit insane. If there's anyone in the country who can hasten fascism it's this guy. Latino Canadian pretending to be a Southern evangelical. Though I do take comfort in the fact that he's never going to get in the White House. He's way too creepy for middle America and he'll crash and burn before he gets to the primaries.

Yeah but, Obama, or anyone else is more trustworthy, right?...

[Quick Karl]

Cruz is scary; brilliant, self-absorbed, and probably more extremist in his positions than any high level American politician in generations.  History shows that intellect is absolutely no measure of decency and morality.  Having Dershowitz's admiration is no badge of honor. Cruz is either a despot in the making or a burn-it-all zealot.  Either way, he's going to leave wreckage we'll deal with for a long time.  Texas will regret this slimy character is one of theirs.

It's amazing - you just described Obama, Hillary, Pelosi, Reid, Boxer - shall I continue?

[West of the Rockies]

This is what is so confounding!  Those of us on the left genuinely regard Cruz, Louis Ghomert, et al, as dangerous extremists.  Those on the right genuinely regard Obama, Reid, et al, in a similar fashion, with no evidence dissuading either side from their views. 

Before we can find a cure, don't have to identify the cause? Is it argutainment media?  Is it in ability to let go of our own dearly-held beliefs?  Curiouser and curiouser....

[albrecht]

This is what is so confounding!  Those of us on the left genuinely regard Cruz, Louis Ghomert, et al, as dangerous extremists.  Those on the right genuinely regard Obama, Reid, et al, in a similar fashion, with no evidence dissuading either side from their views. 

Before we can find a cure, don't have to identify the cause? Is it argutainment media?  Is it in ability to let go of our own dearly-held beliefs?  Curiouser and curiouser....

Yes, in many cases. I have some serious doubts about Beck and also an odd feeling about Cruz, though I like what he has done and says, on paper at least. But I get your point. We've always had a divided country to some extent or another. We are too diverse for this model of "top-down, one-size fits all" DC mandated solutions. Which was why, originally at least, it was intended to be a Federal system of States with much of the power invested in them and the people. The solution to the divisiveness is to "devolve" power back to the States, County, Local, and people. Let the Federal government run the "big stuff", like defense, securing borders, etc. And let the local people handle schools, school lunches, marriages, social programs, roads, guns, etc. Except for very basic rights (enumerated in the Constitution) the Feds should just stay away. That way some Republican in Texas, who is in DC, isn't telling some homosexual in Massachusetts how to live. Or some commie from California, who is now in DC, is telling some Texans he needs to give up his guns.

[qaddisin]

Still coming up with material for your character? Gotten any calls from Fox News or Comedy Central for a development deal?

Salahuddin is a far cry from the Islamist-psychopaths of today -- the Third Crusade is a particularly favored subject of mine.

I worked for a Saudi that gave me my first Qur'an to read - he was a gentleman in every sense, but the Qur'an does indeed call for the murder of non-believers (infidels). Until the Muslims of the world begin to denounce the actions of their bloodthirsty brothers, I'm calling them collaborators. And fuck, they printed their Holy Book bass akwards so what does that tell ya?

So, when Jehovah called for the annihilation of entire nations of people in the Old Testament, that was alright? By your reasoning it was, because it was the Christian God giving the execution order.

If a Christian doesn't follow the laws of Leviticus, are they still a true Christian? By your reasoning they are not, because to be a member of the club, you have to adhere to all the rules laid out in the membership charter.

And I've met a number of Muslims here in the U.S., and they denounce the extremist acts of their own here and in other parts of the world. They're good people, and (as far as I can tell*) don't bear their fellow human beings any ill will. The way you (and a few other people on this forum) view the world, all Texans are J.R. Ewing, all Democrats are Barack Obama, and all brown people want you dead. You attack an entire group of people for the actions of a few, then pule and whine when that same method is used against your "white Christian male hegemony".

* I cannot purport to know what truly lies the hearts of every person I meet. I'm not foolish enough to think that everyone is completely honest all of the time. But I do take people at their word until given a reason not to, and what book they decide to live by is not an immediate strike against them.

[Quick Karl]

Still coming up with material for your character? Gotten any calls from Fox News or Comedy Central for a development deal?

So, when Jehovah called for the annihilation of entire nations of people in the Old Testament, that was alright? By your reasoning it was, because it was the Christian God giving the execution order.

If a Christian doesn't follow the laws of Leviticus, are they still a true Christian? By your reasoning they are not, because to be a member of the club, you have to adhere to all the rules laid out in the membership charter.

And I've met a number of Muslims here in the U.S., and they denounce the extremist acts of their own here and in other parts of the world. They're good people, and (as far as I can tell*) don't bear their fellow human beings any ill will. The way you (and a few other people on this forum) view the world, all Texans are J.R. Ewing, all Democrats are Barack Obama, and all brown people want you dead. You attack an entire group of people for the actions of a few, then pule and whine when that same method is used against your "white Christian male hegemony".

* I cannot purport to know what truly lies the hearts of every person I meet. I'm not foolish enough to think that everyone is completely honest all of the time. But I do take people at their word until given a reason not to, and what book they decide to live by is not an immediate strike against them.

I'm not a Christian.

But the people that take their books literally, and want to cut your head off based on what their book says, are the people you should be worried about...

[NowhereInTime]

I'm not a Christian.

Really?  Couldn't tell.

[Quick Karl]

Really?  Couldn't tell.

Well you're an asshole so it doesn't surprise me.

[WildCard]

And fuck, they printed their Holy Book bass akwards so what does that tell ya?

I gotta admit, that was pretty funny. Maybe they're Satanists. And the Chinese?! Fuggedaboutit!