Malaysian Air MH17 crash

[PerfectTommy]

New evidence of shrapnel damage looks pretty compelling:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/1d6a9ac2-10e3-11e4-b116-00144feabdc0.html#axzz387cQkALB

Shrapnel damage is indicative of a fragmentary warhead which are designed to explode near a target and pepper it with projectiles--exactly like the kind carried by the SA-11:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/21/world/europe/wreckage-offers-clues-on-why-flight-17-went-down.html?emc=edit_th_20140722&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=25300769&_r=0

There's nothing concrete yet, but there is lots of evidence pointing to the separatists being the most likely culprits.

The facts are it's the military hardware capable of hitting the plane, the rebels bragged about having one on social media days before the incident, they've been the ones shooting planes down since June, and a convoy with one was seen entering and leaving the country.

Add to this the intercepted communiques and the Russians' farting around with the evidence--it just doesn't look good for the rebels.

[Chaim]

Well yes it does. You said the Ukrainians shot it down with fighters. Or is it aliens now?

It also explains overflying the country (MA17 was one of many overflights that week). It wasn't known it was an airliner because those with the system didn't have the data (and were probably drunk)..They saw an aeroplane overhead and assumed it was a Ukrainian transport aircraft...once launched you can't bring them back.

No it doesn't. No I didn't say that. Learn to read, dumbo.
The rest of your statement is purely made up fiction.

I don't know who shot it down. I could have been the planes, could have been Ukrainian SAM or Rebel SAM (not sure they have Buks), or even a bomb on board.
The Rebels might have shot it down, but  Kiev deliberately (under oder from US intelligence) did everything they could to make them shoot it down.
Why? - Because a tragedy like this is exactly what the US needs to get EU to boycott Russia even more.

The Ukrainian figher-jets near the plane hint towards this. They could have lured a Rebel SAM to fire, or maybe just used the plane as some sort of cover, bomb some targets in the east and get the SAMs to fire at the next plane that comes through.
OR
The Ukrainian Army shot it down with their own Buk - coldblooded - actually this is even more likely, since a US plan to kill that plane does not depend on Rebel participation this way.
OR
The planes shot it down. It's probably hard to find out which type of missile did the kill, and easy to cover up and blame a Rebel Buk (haven't seen any evidence they even have such a system and not just shoulder fired missiles).

[Yorkshire pud]

No it doesn't. No I didn't say that. Learn to read, dumbo.
The rest of your statement is purely made up fiction.

I don't know who shot it down. I could have been the planes, could have been Ukrainian SAM or Rebel SAM (not sure they have Buks), or even a bomb on board.
The Rebels might have shot it down, but  Kiev deliberately (under oder from US intelligence) did everything they could to make them shoot it down.
Why? - Because a tragedy like this is exactly what the US needs to get EU to boycott Russia even more.

The Ukrainian figher-jets near the plane hint towards this. They could have lured a Rebel SAM to fire, or maybe just used the plane as some sort of cover, bomb some targets in the east and get the SAMs to fire at the next plane that comes through.
OR
The Ukrainian Army shot it down with their own Buk - coldblooded - actually this is even more likely, since a US plan to kill that plane does not depend on Rebel participation this way.
OR
The planes shot it down. It's probably hard to find out which type of missile did the kill, and easy to cover up and blame a Rebel Buk (haven't seen any evidence they even have such a system and not just shoulder fired missiles).

Made up fiction...

[PerfectTommy]

The Ukrainian figher-jets near the plane hint towards this.

What jets?

http://whoisstrelkov.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/russian-atc-lesson-101-the-phantom-su25/

Keep in mind that the fabled jet placed at the scene is identified as the Su-25, which is primarily a ground-pounder, much like our A-10 Warthog. Unladen, it can reach about 23,000 feet. With a full weapons compliment it can only reach 16,000. The notion that this craft could magically appear from nowhere after the Boeing is hit at 33,000 feet, hover in place for 5 minutes, then disappear is ludicrous.

To be high enough and on correct vector to engage the 777 at that height, knock it down with its small missiles, while maintaining invisibility... this just isn't possible.

More likely, as suggested by the piece, what can be seen on Russian radar is the cloud of debris from the explosion and decompression of the 777 at that altitude.

[onan]

My take on this is: the whole Ukraine situation is a planned Op by western Intelligence.
Right from the "Maidan revolution" up to the shooting down of this plane.

My theory is you are a nutball.

[Chaim]

What jets?

http://whoisstrelkov.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/russian-atc-lesson-101-the-phantom-su25/

Keep in mind that the fabled jet placed at the scene is identified as the Su-25, which is primarily a ground-pounder, much like our A-10 Warthog. Unladen, it can reach about 23,000 feet. With a full weapons compliment it can only reach 16,000. The notion that this craft could magically appear from nowhere after the Boeing is hit at 33,000 feet, hover in place for 5 minutes, then disappear is ludicrous.

To be high enough and on correct vector to engage the 777 at that height, knock it down with its small missiles, while maintaining invisibility... this just isn't possible.

More likely, as suggested by the piece, what can be seen on Russian radar is the cloud of debris from the explosion and decompression of the 777 at that altitude.

I watched that part of the video now, have to admit what they show with this commercial radar video and what they explain is total bollocks. Looks like they have total morons running their Ministry when they let a guy give a presentation that you can only believe if you don't watch it and rely on summaries given in the media about it. If that is their only proof of a Sukhoi I don't buy it myself now.

[Yorkshire pud]

I watched that part of the video now, have to admit what they show with this commercial radar video and what they explain is total bollocks. Looks like they have total morons running their Ministry when they let a guy give a presentation that you can only believe if you don't watch it and rely on summaries given in the media about it. If that is their only proof of a Sukhoi I don't buy it myself now.

Whilst we're on aeroplanes; did you look up NOTAM and flight plans?

[Chaim]

Whilst we're on aeroplanes; did you look up NOTAM and flight plans?

come to your point if you have one.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

come to your point if you have one.

Point: You're a hopelessly paranoid retard.

[Yorkshire pud]

come to your point if you have one.

If you haven't a clue about either (and you don't), you won't know why MA17 (As did other flights) overflew eastern Ukraine. Your default attitude is look for CT links and not what real world events are. You will insist you're open minded and critical in thought; if you were you'd already know about NOTAMS and flight plans. But you're not so you don't. Variously you've said I'm a moron, stupid, deceiving worm, bitch, retard and idiot; If I'm all of those, what are you, when you haven't even done any background research on how airlines operate their fleets?

Incidentally; do you seriously think using insults like confetti furthers any credibility you might have in persuading others to your point of view?
Do you do that in real life? Somehow I think you probably don't.

[Chaim]

If you haven't a clue about either (and you don't), you won't know why MA17 (As did other flights) overflew eastern Ukraine. Your default attitude is look for CT links and not what real world events are. You will insist you're open minded and critical in thought; if you were you'd already know about NOTAMS and flight plans. But you're not so you don't. Variously you've said I'm a moron, stupid, deceiving worm, bitch, retard and idiot; If I'm all of those, what are you, when you haven't even done any background research on how airlines operate their fleets?

Incidentally; do you seriously think using insults like confetti furthers any credibility you might have in persuading others to your point of view?
Do you do that in real life? Somehow I think you probably don't.

I reply to you this way, because you asked for it multiple times and right from the start, asshat.
I know Notams and what flight plans are. It's fascinating how morons like you believe they possess some kind of secret knowledge about things just because you overheard some real pilots talking while you were driving your cab to the airport or brought your crashed rc plane to the repair shop.

[Yorkshire pud]

I reply to you this way, because you asked for it multiple times and right from the start, asshat.
I know Notams and what flight plans are. It's fascinating how morons like you believe they possess some kind of secret knowledge about things just because you overheard some real pilots talking while you were driving your cab to the airport or brought your crashed rc plane to the repair shop.

Default to abuse? The level of your discussion.

I know about such things because I've been involved with such things. Your knowledge is limited to what you find on a CT website. Period. As I've told others, don't think calling me names in any way makes me feel bad, it doesn't. You'll still be bereft of knowledge.


Or as DPS said:

Point: You're a hopelessly paranoid retard.

[Chaim]

Default to abuse? The level of your discussion.

Moron, you came into my thread with insults and namecalling, and now you complain like a hypocrite butthurt bitch.
I even begged you to behave civilized but you refused. I guess this way of talking is what you need.
You're the typical low-IQ moron who picks up a few words and believes he's now in a position to talk down to people instead of just a pitiful jerk.

[Yorkshire pud]

Moron, you came into my thread with insults and namecalling, and now you complain like a hypocrite butthurt bitch.

[attachimg=1]

I even begged you to behave civilized but you refused. I guess this way of talking is what you need.
You're the typical low-IQ moron who picks up a few words and believes he's now in a position to talk down to people instead of just a pitiful jerk.

I think it was Dyer who said that the highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you know nothing about. That about sums your critical thinking skills nicely..

Or as Onan might say:

My theory is you are a nutball.

[Chaim]

[attachimg=1]

you're lucky this forum doesn't require an IQ test to participate or you would not be able to write your dribble here.

[b_dubb]

you're lucky this forum doesn't require an IQ test to participate or you would not be able to write your dribble here.

You have that backwards. 

[Catsmile]

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

write your dribble here.

It's spelled "drivel," genius.

[Chaim]

It's spelled "drivel," genius.

English is not my mother tongue, I use words sometimes that I just picked up in some conversation. Maybe we can see what a "genius" you are by continuing this boring cock-fight conversation in German? Otherwise I'd prefer if the threads would stay on topic and not turn into these "you suck" "you're dumb" "you're a CT" banter. It is really boring as hell.

[Catsmile]

[Chaim]

http://youtu.be/Bi-2nV-I1B0
OSCE observer: "there are pieces of fuselage that have been pockmarked, it looks like Machinegunfire, very very strong."

question is - if that is the case, was it of the type used in Ukrainian Army jets?

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

http://youtu.be/Bi-2nV-I1B0
OSCE observer: "there are pieces of fuselage that have been pockmarked, it looks like Machinegunfire, very very strong."

question is - if that is the case, was it of the type used in Ukrainian Army jets?

Cool, it's Canada's Peter Mansbridge.

Wouldn't there be a lot of shrapnel since the missile explodes 60 feet out?  Couldn't an untrained observer mistake that for machine gun fire pockmarks?

The warheads might even be loaded up with ball bearings or shot.  I'll have to check that out.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

The punctures seen in the photograph are relatively uniform in size,” said Reed Foster, manager, military capabilities at IHS Jane’s. “ This would potentially be consistent with a fragmentation-type warhead employed upon a number of modern and legacy surface-to-air missile systems.”

High-explosive fragmentation missiles of the kind thought to have been fired at Flight MH17 are designed to detonate short of the target, maximizing the weapon’s destructive power by flinging thousands of pieces of shrapnel across a wide area, said Doug Richardson, missiles and rockets editor at Jane’s.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-22/warhead-that-downed-flight-mh17-will-have-left-widespread-traces.html

Mystery solved.  Next?

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

continuing this boring cock-fight conversation in German?

No, thank you.  IMO, we should have simply exterminated the German swine as retribution for WWII.  I'm certainly not going to have a conversation with you in that gutter language.

It is really boring as hell.

There's little that is more boring than reading some conspiracy retard's masturbatory fantasy.  You guys are like clones in your style, personalities, and behaviour.  None of us feel like going through this chicken dance for the umpteenth time, so we are looking for a silver lining, and that is found in the mild satisfaction of pointing out that you are, indeed, a paranoid retard.

[Chaim]

None of us feel like going through this chicken dance for the umpteenth time, so we are looking for a silver lining, and that is found in the mild satisfaction of pointing out that you are, indeed, a paranoid retard.

if you dont like to debate stay out of the thread and don't spam it with insults.
your silver lining line is no excuse because the people you consider "conspiracy retards" probably consider you as dounce who's unable and unwilling to look outside your tiny mental box you're living in, or something like that, and reading the forum is not very enjoyable when most content is dumb ego fights.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

if you dont like to debate stay out of the thread

Oooo, careful there Adolph.  If you are going to 86 anyone you disagree with, this will be a lonely conversation for you.  May I suggest finding a like-minded group of retards who will accept one of your stripe?  There are no shortage of them on the web, just as there are no shortage of warehouses for mentally ill people.

[Chaim]

Oooo, careful there Adolph.  If you are going to 86 anyone you disagree with

there's a slight difference between disagreeing and name calling, asshole.

[Chaim]

IMO, we should have simply exterminated the German swine as retribution for WWII.  I'm certainly not going to have a conversation with you in that gutter language.

If you want retribution for WW2 you need to nuke England, because they sabotaged every Germany attempt to come to peaceful terms with Poland over the Danzig corridor. Or you could just nuke Poland itself for creating the situation. They were conducting ethnic cleaning of Germans in the occupied German Territory from WW1.
And finally, if you think we should exterminate folks who start wars - why not nuke the US? The most hated country on the planet, constantly engaged in mass-murder of civilians and theft of natural resources. Basically a parasitic nation full of fat blobs who can't even find Europe on a worldmap.

And - I am not surprised that you ignorant about foreign languages.

[Yorkshire pud]

OSCE observer: "there are pieces of fuselage that have been pockmarked, it looks like Machinegunfire, very very strong."

question is - if that is the case, was it of the type used in Ukrainian Army jets?

Hmmm, only they're not air accident investigators. The investigators only got there yesterday. Essentially they're (OSCE observers) not experts in determining the difference between machine gun fire and projectiles fired from an exploding warhead. Keep going son, you'll get there eventually.

Incidentally; have you had a conspiracy theory where you've proved yourself right with peer review from proper experts who actually know what they're talking about rather than simply know how to copy and paste links and YT vids? 

[Chaim]

Hmmm, only they're not air accident investigators. The investigators only got there yesterday. Essentially they're (OSCE observers) not experts in determining the difference between machine gun fire and projectiles fired from an exploding warhead. Keep going son, you'll get there eventually.

Incidentally; have you had a conspiracy theory where you've proved yourself right with peer review from proper experts who actually know what they're talking about rather than simply know how to copy and paste links and YT vids?

I didn't post the video to proof a conspiracy but because it might be of interest to people who are interested in the subject, asshat.