IRS Says 'Lost' Lerner Emails...

[b_dubb]

One of the biggest thing people don't often think about is the opportunity costs, in addition to all the other costs, with our current system. Think of all the smart, or at least clever, people whose whole job is to either find loop-holes, write loop-holes, and file taxes (and come up with tax-dodging schemes.) All those attorneys, accountants, lobbyists, etc are educated and could be put to good use in other arenas that would be productive to the economy. Or made to dig ditches.

By eliminating loop holes we free those smart people up to do something that benefits people and perhaps serve the greater good.  Instead of a corporation's bottom line. And shareholders.

[albrecht]

By eliminating loop holes we free those smart people up to do something that benefits people and perhaps serve the greater good.  Instead of a corporation's bottom line. And shareholders.

Well, we disagree a bit on that part. To me, as a shareholder in some and as a worker, I don't mind if a company succeeds. But by actually producing something, making an honest profit, providing a wanted or needed service. Not by tax code manipulation or on lobbying (or buying) politicians and so by regulatory capture. I have no problem with profit, but want honest profit.

But, you're right, some of all that talent working on taxes (on all sides) will do things in non-profits, charities, businesses, corporations, churches, or even government- or where-ever that will benefit society better.

[b_dubb]

Well, we disagree a bit on that part. To me, as a shareholder in some and as a worker, I don't mind if a company succeeds. But by actually producing something, making an honest profit, providing a wanted or needed service. Not by tax code manipulation or on lobbying (or buying) politicians and so by regulatory capture. I have no problem with profit, but want honest profit.

But, you're right, some of all that talent working on taxes (on all sides) will do things in non-profits, charities, businesses, corporations, churches, or even government- or where-ever that will benefit society better.

When did I say I didn't want company xyz to succeed? I just want them to pay their taxes.

[albrecht]

When did I say I didn't want company xyz to succeed? I just want them to pay their taxes.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood your previous comment about "shareholders and bottom line." Apologies.  Though we have some of the most high corporate tax rates already, hence the desire to manipulate the tax code. We need a new system that will benefit everyone.

[NowhereInTime]

Oh, this is almost too much...

Lois Lerner will most likely not be prosecuted for Contempt of Congress (as if we don't all have ...) because of a legal opinion by Theodore Olsen during his time at the (tee hee) Reagan Administration Office of Legal Counsel!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/19/darrell-issa-contempt_n_5600789.html?cps=gravity

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!! TOO FUCKING MUCH!!!!


The crooked old hand of St. Ronnie reaches out from the Beyond to save... Lois Lerner?!?!?

Love it.

[albrecht]

Oh, this is almost too much...

Lois Lerner will most likely not be prosecuted for Contempt of Congress (as if we don't all have ...) because of a legal opinion by Theodore Olsen during his time at the (tee hee) Reagan Administration Office of Legal Counsel!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/19/darrell-issa-contempt_n_5600789.html?cps=gravity

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!! TOO FUCKING MUCH!!!!


The crooked old hand of St. Ronnie reaches out from the Beyond to save... Lois Lerner?!?!?

Love it.

Lerner was just following orders. Sure she broke the law but the more important thing is to go after the person who gave the order and made the policy. I doubt it was Obama, like Nixon, Bush, Clinton, etc, Presidents like to have "plausible deny-ability" when it comes to enemy lists and dirty tricks. I'm guessing it was chief of staff or someone on the DNC but we may never know since I'm sure all records have been purged, sorry "hard-drive failed", by now.

More importantly though is that we all can use the "hard-drive failed" excuse for any discrepancies in our tax returns, right? Surely if the IRS can use the "dog ate my homework" excuse so often then people and businesses can.

[NowhereInTime]

Lerner was just following orders. Sure she broke the law but the more important thing is to go after the person who gave the order and made the policy. I doubt it was Obama, like Nixon, Bush, Clinton, etc, Presidents like to have "plausible deny-ability" when it comes to enemy lists and dirty tricks. I'm guessing it was chief of staff or someone on the DNC but we may never know since I'm sure all records have been purged, sorry "hard-drive failed", by now.

More importantly though is that we all can use the "hard-drive failed" excuse for any discrepancies in our tax returns, right? Surely if the IRS can use the "dog ate my homework" excuse so often then people and businesses can.

Well, when you're audited for "oppressing the free speech of conservatives" then go for it.

Conservatives had no right to tax free status to smear their screens with political feces.  You want to spout off your horseshit rhetoric?  Pay the piper.  Or fuck off.  No one wants to hear that crap from either side anymore.

[albrecht]

Well, when you're audited for "oppressing the free speech of conservatives" then go for it.

Conservatives had no right to tax free status to smear their screens with political feces.  You want to spout off your horseshit rhetoric?  Pay the piper.  Or fuck off.  No one wants to hear that crap from either side anymore.

I would like to reply but... my hard-drive crashed. See how easy it is!? I'm going to try it on my next speeding ticket also. Sorry, officer, my hard-drive crashed!

[NowhereInTime]

I would like to reply but... my hard-drive crashed. See how easy it is!? I'm going to try it on my next speeding ticket also. Sorry, officer, my hard-drive crashed!

Won't work for you. One peek at your posts on this site and they'll realize you lack credibility.
(sorry, champ, it was there, had to take it... )

[albrecht]

Won't work for you. One peek at your posts on this site and they'll realize you lack credibility.
(sorry, champ, it was there, had to take it... )

Darn it. I guess I'll have to fall back on the "no speakee English" excuse and just tell the officer that I have no id but I'm an illegal. That should get me out of any tickets and maybe even some of that free stuff Obama is giving away to them!

[PB the Deplorable]

Well, when you're audited for "oppressing the free speech of conservatives" then go for it.

Conservatives had no right to tax free status to smear their screens with political feces.  You want to spout off your horseshit rhetoric?  Pay the piper.  Or fuck off.  No one wants to hear that crap from either side anymore.

If the IRS was simply doing their jobs, doing what you claim they were doing, why the cover up?  Why the lies?  Why the destruction of evidence?

[NowhereInTime]

If the IRS was simply doing their jobs, doing what you claim they were doing, why the cover up?  Why the lies?  Why the destruction of evidence?

Cover up?  I still don't see any evidence ($50 million tax dollars later) of cover-up.  Deleted e-mails?  Shouldn't have happened, I agree, but all Congress has come up with on that is a Contempt of Congress charge that Ted Olsen says a federal prosecutor can decide whether or not to pursue.  Lies?  What lies?  That conservative groups were "targeted"?  Lib groups were, too.

It gets back to the premise that conservative (and some lib and labor) groups were trying to be certified tax-free status to fund raise their coffers to substantiate a media blitz.
At no point was any conservative forced to pay extra taxes or denied the right to speak.  They were delayed (and in some cases, ultimately approved) from gaining tax free status under the social service group exemption.

The real crime here is that conservative groups misrepresented themselves to the IRS so they could fund raise tax free and smear our airwaves with their tripe.  The IRS called bullshit (actually, a civic minded Republican in Cincinnati did) and demanded information on these dubious groups.  This delayed their launch and your team is furious they didn't get their way. Now Congress has wasted years and tax dollars on their tantrum.

No outrage from you there, is there?

[albrecht]

"IRS Deputy Associate Chief Counsel Thomas Kane said in transcribed congressional testimony that more IRS officials experienced computer crashes, bringing the total number of crash victims to “less than 20,” and also said that the agency does not know if the lost emails are still backed up somewhere."
http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/21/now-irs-reports-even-more-computer-crashes-doesnt-know-if-emails-still-exist/#ixzz387okV3iA

What if every American didn't file this year and if asked by the IRS just said "I had a hard-drive crash." I wonder how far that excuse would get a citizen facing the IRS? But we are supposed to excuse them with this lame and very suspicious excuse.

[West of the Rockies]

Cover up?  I still don't see any evidence ($50 million tax dollars later) of cover-up.  Deleted e-mails?  Shouldn't have happened, I agree, but all Congress has come up with on that is a Contempt of Congress charge that Ted Olsen says a federal prosecutor can decide whether or not to pursue.  Lies?  What lies?  That conservative groups were "targeted"?  Lib groups were, too.

No outrage from you there, is there?

Well said... I agree, the missing emails raise suspicion as well they should.  The whole thing stinks, but it does not strike me as that different from any number of cover-ups of the last forty years.  SOP, my friends, SOP (from both sides).

[albrecht]

Well said... I agree, the missing emails raise suspicion as well they should.  The whole thing stinks, but it does not strike me as that different from any number of cover-ups of the last forty years.  SOP, my friends, SOP (from both sides).

Yeah, we've had cover-ups for quite a long time and both Parties seem to enjoy them when they get into office. The thing that makes me mad is:
1) the government is very clear what people and businesses need to do with regard for keeping records, email,s etc (see how far you will get with a "hard-drive crash" with the IRS or SEC.
2) the government is supposedly spying on, retaining, and data-mining our emails but they can't even find theirs?
3) we spend millions on workers and outside consultants and IT "experts" to maintain the government computers and storage and yet emails are just "lost?" Where is our money going if even the most basic thing isn't implemented?

[NowhereInTime]

Yeah, we've had cover-ups for quite a long time and both Parties seem to enjoy them when they get into office. The thing that makes me mad is:
1) the government is very clear what people and businesses need to do with regard for keeping records, email,s etc (see how far you will get with a "hard-drive crash" with the IRS or SEC.
2) the government is supposedly spying on, retaining, and data-mining our emails but they can't even find theirs?
3) we spend millions on workers and outside consultants and IT "experts" to maintain the government computers and storage and yet emails are just "lost?" Where is our money going if even the most basic thing isn't implemented?

These are fair points.  I don't know why the IRS "lost" those e-mails; there's nothing actionable in them, anyway.  Congress can fit and fume all it wants, but it really has no case here.

[albrecht]

These are fair points.  I don't know why the IRS "lost" those e-mails; there's nothing actionable in them, anyway.  Congress can fit and fume all it wants, but it really has no case here.

If nothing else they should investigate the IT department and all of our contractors and contracting companies. What the heck are they doing with our money if that can't do the most basic of IT management, retaining data and backing up system?

[FightTheFuture]

These are fair points.  I don't know why the IRS "lost" those e-mails; there's nothing actionable in them, anyway.  Congress can fit and fume all it wants, but it really has no case here.

Now, how do we know there is nothing actionable in them, If we have not seen them? There's been plenty enough lies and obfuscation on behalf of the IRS to, at the very least, warrant a special prosecutor.

[Quick Karl]

Now, how do we know there is nothing actionable in them, If we have not seen them? There's been plenty enough lies and obfuscation on behalf of the IRS to, at the very least, warrant a special prosecutor.

Don't you realize that if an American-hating sociopath says "there is nothing actionable in those emails", it's true? I mean, he knows everything there is to know for chrissakes...

[NowhereInTime]

Now, how do we know there is nothing actionable in them, If we have not seen them? There's been plenty enough lies and obfuscation on behalf of the IRS to, at the very least, warrant a special prosecutor.

1) Welcome back into the Game!

2) Love the new avatar!

3) You couldn't be more WRONG!  Seriously, what could these e-mails possibly contain?  A "conspiracy at the highest levels" to inconvenience the Koch brothers??

[NowhereInTime]

Don't you realize that if an American-hating sociopath says "there is nothing actionable in those emails", it's true? I mean, he knows everything there is to know for chrissakes...

Thanks Karl!  You're a pal!

[Quick Karl]

Thanks Karl!  You're a pal!

You're hallucinating again.

[FightTheFuture]

Well, it`s about time for my homie, Trey Gowdy, to administer another beat-down on Koskinen et al. Enjoy:

http://www.c-span.org/

[FightTheFuture]

1) Welcome back into the Game!

2) Love the new avatar!

3) You couldn't be more WRONG!  Seriously, what could these e-mails possibly contain?  A "conspiracy at the highest levels" to inconvenience the Koch brothers??

1. Thank-you! I did a bit of traveling. Sure missed you....Valerie (LOL)

2. Thank-you, again! Just something I threw together.

3. Well, I would love to know what those emails contained. We already know Lois learner was operating as a high level political hit person, on behalf of the White House. Why else would she do what she did?? I want to know what she is hiding.

[bateman]

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/386277/there-are-no-missing-lois-lerner-e-mails-justice-department-concedes-andrew-c-mccarthy

[The General]

Of course they have them. 
You can fart in a tin can deep in the woods and the gov't has a recording of it somewhere.
They don't even try very hard to fool us anymore.

[PB the Deplorable]

The lying never stops with these people.

[FightTheFuture]

It's a sad note that I am unable to say that I am surprised. This administration has proven itself to be little more than a band of pirates.

[Quick Karl]

It's a sad note that I am unable to say that I am surprised. This administration has proven itself to be little more than a band of pirates.

The voters that support them are America's worst enemies.

[albrecht]

Surprise, surprise!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/09/09/breitbart-news-says-irs-targeted-company-for-audit/