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ISIS

Started by Quick Karl, June 10, 2014, 04:34:29 PM

paladin1991

Quote from: VtaGeezer on September 30, 2014, 05:20:05 PM
Probably ran back to Baghdad and kept heading S.  I also read an interview with an Iraqi soldier who, when asked if he felt obliged to fight ISIL, said that he was not...it was just a job.  What's astonishing is that I'm now looking at another story about ISIS fighters being in a firefight just two miles from Baghdad city limits.
Unbelievable. 

VtaGeezer

My Gurkha bit:  I recall reading somewhere that US embassies in the ME employ a lot of Gurkha security guards.

Uncle Duke

Quote from: albrecht on September 30, 2014, 04:31:55 PM
Technically, according to International Law, the Gurkhas are not "mercs" per the Tripartiade Agreement. They swear allegiance to the Crown so although they are not "common wealth" members they (Nepalese, Indian) can serve properly and obey same regulations etc as regular British troops. FFL is under a French Flag and likewise to the Gurkhas according to various Geneva Conventions, not mercenaries. I can't resist because I don't like throwing those august organizations under the same bus with any random "gun for hire." (Having said that- one could quibble on the foreign policy and war decisions of the UK or the French in history.)


I toured the FFL Museum in France several years ago, our guide was a retired regular French Army officer who had served with the Legion. He was asked if Legionaries were mercenaries.  He replied they were, but they (and the Gurkas) were also exempt from the Geneva Convention rules concerning mercenaries despite meeting the GC's criteria for being a mercenary.  He added the Legionaries long fostered that mercenary mystique, along with that of being a force made up of violent criminals on the run and ne'er-do-wells, to make enemies fear them.  He also said Legionaries were under no illusion they'd be treated as per the tenets of the GC if captured, but then jokingly added in this day and age, he doubted few military types would be regardless of what nation they served. 

The most interesting thing I learned about the Legion that day was they do not swear an oath to France, only to the Legion.  (This as opposed to the Gurkas serving in the UK who swear an allegiance to the Crown.)  Back in the 1960s when the Legion mutinied against the French government over Algerian independence, the Legionaries who took part were not punished by the French government as mutineers if they were following the orders of their FFL superiors.  French officers of the Legion were court martialed for mutiny, however, as their oath was sworn to France.

It would be interesting to determine the GC status of the hundreds of former US military, mostly Vietnam vets, who joined the Rhodesian military post UDI. 

Bottom line, take your pick on whether you think the Legion and/or Gurkas are mercenaries.  Probably the Legion more so than the Gurkas meet the criteria for mercenary as defined by the GC, but they both get an exemption by the organization that wrote those criteria.

albrecht

Quote from: Uncle Duke on September 30, 2014, 08:07:07 PM

I toured the FFL Museum in France several years ago, our guide was a retired regular French Army officer who had served with the Legion. He was asked if Legionaries were mercenaries.  He replied they were, but they (and the Gurkas) were also exempt from the Geneva Convention rules concerning mercenaries despite meeting the GC's criteria for being a mercenary.  He added the Legionaries long fostered that mercenary mystique, along with that of being a force made up of violent criminals on the run and ne'er-do-wells, to make enemies fear them.  He also said Legionaries were under no illusion they'd be treated as per the tenets of the GC if captured, but then jokingly added in this day and age, he doubted few military types would be regardless of what nation they served. 

The most interesting thing I learned about the Legion that day was they do not swear an oath to France, only to the Legion.  (This as opposed to the Gurkas serving in the UK who swear an allegiance to the Crown.)  Back in the 1960s when the Legion mutinied against the French government over Algerian independence, the Legionaries who took part were not punished by the French government as mutineers if they were following the orders of their FFL superiors.  French officers of the Legion were court martialed for mutiny, however, as their oath was sworn to France.

It would be interesting to determine the GC status of the hundreds of former US military, mostly Vietnam vets, who joined the Rhodesian military post UDI. 

Bottom line, take your pick on whether you think the Legion and/or Gurkas are mercenaries.  Probably the Legion more so than the Gurkas meet the criteria for mercenary as defined by the GC, but they both get an exemption by the organization that wrote those criteria.
I agree with that assessment. (And actually that mercenaries are not, necessarily, a bad thing. It depends on the cause...or the victor, to be more cynical, on how they are treated personally and historically.) By the way, there are some amazing books about the "bush wars" in Rhodesia and Mozambique, and elsewhere in Africa during the post-colonial time period- like SW Africa etc . Algeria most people write about and most famous. But the other stuff is quite interesting. Written by the people involved and have a different take than how the media says today. But no matter the politics, proxy wars, etc some amazing stuff. And it was not simply a black/white- literally-issue.

ps: my contribution to dethread from ISIL/ISIS/SI, sorry for that. So, back on thread, let's get them, but more importantly divide and conquer (or at least render all of them incompetent of hurting us or our economy.) My opinion the whole lot is, pretty much bad, Shia, Sunni, etc. Pick a strongman/tribe/clan, support them with limited arms, once he starts bad pick an insurgent group, and start over. Worked before. Just get them out of the USA, Europe, etc. And protect our borders and people first. If the Saudis and Qataris refuse to assert their $$ and military we paid for (via interesting treaties and kickback deals) then seize their assets they have here and play hardball. Don't buy their oil/gas (USA just topped Saudi as No.1 producer of oil and we have plenty of natural gas) and see how long they last against the "radicals" they funded without our military sales, treaties, and oil/gas income!  Haha.

Quick Karl

Quote from: albrecht on September 30, 2014, 09:09:04 PM
Just get them out of the USA, Europe, etc. And protect our borders and people first. If the Saudis and Qataris refuse to assert their $$ and military we paid for (via interesting treaties and kickback deals) then seize their assets they have here and play hardball. Don't buy their oil/gas (USA just topped Saudi as No.1 producer of oil and we have plenty of natural gas) and see how long they last against the "radicals" they funded without our military sales, treaties, and oil/gas income!  Haha.

The problem is - the self-interested greedy mother-fuckers in DC that don't give a fuck what happens to you or your children - only what makes them richer and entrenches them in power, in the immediate term...

How long do you think geologists have known how much crude rests under North America? It's all been about buying Saudi crude, cheap, to keep the Chinks and Reds from getting it, until most of it was gone, and leaving what we have alone, until they could bend us over and charge more for it.

And it all continues to happen throughout history, because people are useless eaters. In America's case, it is because the population has been dumbed down intentionally, by America's system of public dis-education.

WOTR

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on September 30, 2014, 12:10:42 PM
About 15 minutes in: Definition Bravery; see that man. Astonishing.
I'm pretty certain that George sucked (and he really never is worth listening to.)  Thanks for finding that- it was well worth watching. 

The Vicar of St. George church in Baghdad is interviewed by Megyn Kelly. It`s a little upsetting. I hope everyone keeps this brave man in their prayers/thoughts.

http://therightscoop.com/must-watch-megyn-kelly-interviews-baghdad-christian-priest-warning-of-imminent-isis-attack/

Uncle Duke

Quote from: albrecht on September 30, 2014, 09:09:04 PM
I agree with that assessment. (And actually that mercenaries are not, necessarily, a bad thing. It depends on the cause...or the victor, to be more cynical, on how they are treated personally and historically.) By the way, there are some amazing books about the "bush wars" in Rhodesia and Mozambique, and elsewhere in Africa during the post-colonial time period- like SW Africa etc . Algeria most people write about and most famous. But the other stuff is quite interesting. Written by the people involved and have a different take than how the media says today. But no matter the politics, proxy wars, etc some amazing stuff. And it was not simply a black/white- literally-issue.


Yeah, I've read a good number of books about Rhodesia and South Africa, the books on Portugal's colonial wars in Africa have only recently started appearing in English.  What I never realized was Portugal created a great deal of strife in NATO with their colonial wars because they unilaterally transformed their military into a counterinsurgency force at the expense of the conventional capabilities NATO counted on in Europe.  Like the US in Vietnam and the French in Algeria, the Portuguese military won their battles in the field but lack of support for those wars at home doomed them.





VtaGeezer

My opinion is that, to Muslims anyway, the media image of ISIL is that of fucking gods.  Guns blazing, flags waving, marching in triumph, pride, courage.  Invincible. I have yet to see a wounded or dead ISIL fighter on TV.  I have yet to see them even hunkered down taking cover.  These guys run to the sound of the guns.  Conversely, vids of their butchery are taken down instantly as too just brutal for nice civil society to be exposed to. In fact, most of it gets virtually no coverage. A split-second grisly shot of those men beheaded; then gone--oh dear--too shocking.  But we get hours of the guy in slow motion with the fucking black flag on his shoulder, or the ones doing donuts in the captured APC, or the guy on foot chasing after the retreating Iraqi trucks with his AK blazing away. 

Muslim kids are as mush-headed as any teens, so it's not surprising that many would feel at least a twinge of admiration for Muslims that are winning for a change. They're being fed "ISIL the Video Game" level shit daily. ISIL leadership are proving to be media geniuses. And the Western media directors are their best recruiters.

I fully expect to wake up to the news that they've taken Baghdad any day now.  Un-fucking-believable.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on October 01, 2014, 08:42:53 AM
Yeah, I've read a good number of books about Rhodesia and South Africa, the books on Portugal's colonial wars in Africa have only recently started appearing in English.  What I never realized was Portugal created a great deal of strife in NATO with their colonial wars because they unilaterally transformed their military into a counterinsurgency force at the expense of the conventional capabilities NATO counted on in Europe.  Like the US in Vietnam and the French in Algeria, the Portuguese military won their battles in the field but lack of support for those wars at home doomed them.

Rhodesia?  Dude, please, the preferred nomenclature is Zaire.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: West of the Rockies on October 01, 2014, 02:16:09 PM
Rhodesia?  Dude, please, the preferred nomenclature is Zaire.

Sorry buddy..Zimbabwe. Robert Mugabe's tyranny.

Quote from: West of the Rockies on October 01, 2014, 02:16:09 PM
Rhodesia?  Dude, please, the preferred nomenclature is Zaire.

That was (and now is) the Congo, cuzz.

pate

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on October 01, 2014, 02:17:47 PM
Sorry buddy..Zimbabwe. Robert Mugabe's *a* tyranny tranny.

fixed it for ya!

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: pate on October 01, 2014, 02:44:29 PM
fixed it for ya!


Only on fridays; when he's called Mary.

pate

Quote from: VtaGeezer on September 30, 2014, 02:46:45 PM
I don't buy it.  I live in AZ, with a hard core right wing govt.  If Joe Arpaio or any of the dozen rightwing AZ sheriffs could produce illegal middle easterners they claim are so common, they'd put them in a parade.  Again, where are these potential Muslim terrorists that are leaving a trail of prayer rugs and "Muslim" leading to the border?

Wow, sounds like you hate it there, why not move the retirement villa to CA or MA (that's massachusettes, bosstawn area...) or is the federal gubermint not yet powerful enough to stomp out the differences from state to state yet and you need to do your part to even it out and level the field for all big Demos everywhere? (I mean by voter fraud voting, in case you can't read between the lines...)

I'm a bit hungover from a crazy AL wildcard game last night (I tried to type gasm but autocorrect moderated me there...) so forgive my spurious comments...

pate

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on October 01, 2014, 02:46:55 PM

Only on fridays; when he's called Mary.

Just know that God loves you, even if you don't believe in him, or it, you godless commie!

Uncle Duke

Quote from: West of the Rockies on October 01, 2014, 02:16:09 PM
Rhodesia?  Dude, please, the preferred nomenclature is Zaire.

No dude, you're confusing your African nations.  The former Rhodesia is now Zimbabwe, Zaire was the former Congo. Lost track of the latter, think they are the Congo (or some form of the name) again.

Sorry about my geographic faux pas, folks.  Is Congo now The People's Republic of Congo?  I should Czech on that!

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: West of the Rockies on October 01, 2014, 06:03:59 PM
Sorry about my geographic faux pas, folks.  Is Congo now The People's Republic of Congo?  I should Czech on that!

I saw what you did there..


I don`t always agree with Charles Krauthammer, but on this occasion, he nails it:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/10/06/krauthammer_on_isis_obama_seems_to_want_to_contain_the_situation_until_the_end_of_his_term_and_then_hand_it_off.html


On a side note, I predicted that more and more books will be coming out painting Obama as incompetent. Of course, the big names of his administration (Gates, Panetta, etc.) will do it with a silk glove, but the criticism is no less devastating. And more to come.

Quick Karl

Quote from: FightTheFuture on October 07, 2014, 07:51:54 AM
I don`t always agree with Charles Krauthammer, but on this occasion, he nails it:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/10/06/krauthammer_on_isis_obama_seems_to_want_to_contain_the_situation_until_the_end_of_his_term_and_then_hand_it_off.html


On a side note, I predicted that more and more books will be coming out painting Obama as incompetent. Of course, the big names of his administration (Gates, Panetta, etc.) will do it with a silk glove, but the criticism is no less devastating. And more to come.

In hindsight, it must be humiliating to have voted for him.

Yorkshire pud

It's okay, she's currently arranging a flight (and parachute drop) into northern Iraq to report first hand how staged they are. Her 'pretend' parents are rehearsing their angst and distress at this moment.

paladin1991

Perfect Pud.  If only...

Obama has no intention of defeating ISIS, 'degrading' them, or anything else.

He is going through the motions, doing the least possible ahead of the elections but just enough to be able to claim he is doing something.

If he isn't one of them, he may as well be.

albrecht

Quote from: Paper*Boy on October 07, 2014, 06:52:00 PM
Obama has no intention of defeating ISIS, 'degrading' them, or anything else.

He is going through the motions, doing the least possible ahead of the elections but just enough to be able to claim he is doing something.

If he isn't one of them, he may as well be.
Give the poor guy a break. It is not like we aren't all aware of his Sunni upbringing and sympathies for Islam, and indeed friendship with radicals of all bent, and lest we forget, he faces also great pressure from the Kissinger/Brzezinski types to allow ISIL/ISIS/SI (maybe even arm them via some gun smuggling through Libya and Turkey) to degrade Assad as proxy war against Iran and Russia. His only, possible, regret is that he allowed his "rebels" to go a little too far and, maybe, he was surprised when his Sunni radicals pivoted toward Iraq and started killing others besides Christians and Shites-who Obama could care less about- and didn't just focus on Assad. Hence the limited intervention now, only after they have seized so much territory and killed so many.

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