ISIS

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

The civilized world has been reluctant to criticize Islam for nearly all of our lifetimes and the results should clearly be kicking everyone in their face.

When a person knows their next door neighbor is beating the shit out of his wife and using his daughter as a fuck toy, is it moral to close the window so you don't hear it and mind your own business? When more like him move into your neighborhood should you just sit there and shut the fuck up?

It's time for you to sack up and admit that this whole ISIS problem is because of you, and those who think like you. 

[albrecht]

Syria is a country of 23 million; to train 5K troops per year is militarily insignificant. There are about that many rebel combatants killed every month or two. It's is simply window dressing to shut up Cap'n Crunch McCain and the rest of his merry band who are horny for getting the US into the civil war in Syria and want Obama to publish the US daily tactical plan in the WSJ every morning.  This bunch never learns.  Most of the stuff we're seeing from the WH is kabuki to mollify the armchair generals in Congress and hysterical media motor-mouths.  The intent is clearly to use air power to weaken and disorganize the ISIL butchers sufficiently for the Iraqis to roll them up and push them back into Syria and let Assad, with his Iranian support, deal with them.   (If it improves Assad's position, tough shit...he's not killing Americans.)  The US has done over 175 air strikes on ISIS; that means there are almost certainly American FAC eyeballs already on the ground.

You could be right. I never understood why we were so gung-ho to go against Assad or even the new, modern Quaddifi (Kaddafi or however it is spelled this decade.) Sure, bad guys but considering other bad guys around the world- not too bad recently. Heck just a few short years ago Assad, and especially his wife, were toasts of magazines etc. And they kept the riff-raff in line. We allow/support the "royals" in Saudi and Qatar to spread virulent Islam everywhere (except their "royal" lands) and accept them dealing very harshly with dissidents and "rebels" but side with radical "rebels" in other countries? (Yes, I understand the desire to destabilize the region and the anti-Russian strategy via Brezenski, et all.)
-McCain never saw a situation in which war wasn't the answer. Odd for a person who experienced war but there it is.
-All things equal, I would rather deal with Persians than the newly rich Bedouin and Arab peasants who became "royal" due to oil and British policy against the Ottoman Empire. At least they had a civilization and culture and education. Yes, there are "crazies" in Iran. No doubt. But there are crazies everywhere. Maybe if not so isolated and sanctioned the "crazies" wouldn't be in power as much?
-Obama, due to his personal history and politics, sides with Sunnis and is hell-bent to make sure Islam is called a "religion of peace." (So did Bush, but,  likely Bush didn't believe it but was just making good with his Saudi buddies.) Obama actually believes it and makes crazy statements and policies like Islam bringing so much for the founding of the US and NASA's mission is for Islamic out reach. And allowing VISA holders to go missing and ignoring threats, like Boston bombers, due to political correctness. Stop with that crap and call a spade a spade.

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

ya know... i've been thinking a lot about this and other related issues. i'm most likely not going to express it very well here. it doesn't matter what anybody does or says about it. you can vaporize hundreds of thousands and shit will start up very soon somewhere else. people are at each others throats everywhere. it is human nature and it has been that way forever. we murder with abandon because human nature hasn't changed. humans are selfish individuals (lacking consideration for others).
i think all the greatest nations that ever became great eventually became another layer of corpses that great nations (in part) are built upon. we've seen an amazing evolution of civilizations over time. people not so much.
other than that... like i said.... i've been thinking a lot about it. i got nuthin. you?

[pate]

Desert Storm - Orbital

I love this one, sound quality could be a bit better though...

[Yorkshire pud]

The civilized world has been reluctant to criticize Islam for nearly all of our lifetimes and the results should clearly be kicking everyone in their face.

When a person knows their next door neighbor is beating the shit out of his wife and using his daughter as a fuck toy, is it moral to close the window so you don't hear it and mind your own business? When more like him move into your neighborhood should you just sit there and shut the fuck up?

Okay, who woke it up?

[albrecht]

Okay, who woke it up?

The British, at least in the modern era, though arguably one could say that Muhammad, peace be upon him, initially woke it up. This was exacerbated by the US, following in the British and Russian tradition, finding various Muslims to support or, to fight, and with awful immigration policies that has resulted in a Fifth column in our cities and a sympathizer with the Sunni side and
radical "rebels" in the White House.

[Yorkshire pud]

The British, at least in the modern era, though arguably one could say that Muhammad, peace be upon him, initially woke it up. This was exacerbated by the US, following in the British and Russian tradition, finding various Muslims to support or, to fight, and with awful immigration policies that has resulted in a Fifth column in our cities and a sympathizer with the Sunni side and
radical "rebels" in the White House.

I should have made myself clear. I meant the author not the content.

[albrecht]

I should have made myself clear. I meant the author not the content.

Yeah, but I couldn't resist pointing out the karmic aspect. If we would've left those backwards Muslims alone in their internecine killings and ignorance and not involved them in proxy wars, relied on them to keep our defense industry afloat in hard economic times, and helped them discover how to make their lands productive for gas and oil extraction we wouldn't be dealing with the problems we have now.

[Yorkshire pud]

Yeah, but I couldn't resist pointing out the karmic aspect. If we would've left those backwards Muslims alone in their internecine killings and ignorance and not involved them in proxy wars, relied on them to keep our defense industry afloat in hard economic times, and helped them discover how to make their lands productive for gas and oil extraction we wouldn't be dealing with the problems we have now.

We have helped them discover how to extract gas and oil. The fact they're so wealthy on it they can afford to pay at great expense Western engineers to do it on their behalf is the crux. Arabs don't have the greatest of indiginous education and the wealthy ones pay at great expense Western schools, colleges and universities to do it for them. You're correct,  the west have done this ( or at least contributed) but since when has any government been entirely altruistic? In round figures.

[VtaGeezer]

The British, at least in the modern era, though arguably one could say that Muhammad, peace be upon him, initially woke it up. This was exacerbated by the US, following in the British and Russian tradition, finding various Muslims to support or, to fight, and with awful immigration policies that has resulted in a Fifth column in our cities and a sympathizer with the Sunni side and
radical "rebels" in the White House.

I figured YP meant QK. I'm afraid the short run of civility in BG's political threads is over.  As for your thought; it all goes back to vast sums of Western oil money flooding into the Arabian Peninsula and financing Saudi Wahhabism's rise to being the dominant evangelizing force in Muslim world.  Eventually, the West will face a reckoning for its apathy in allowing a small, backward culture to hold substantial influence on its affairs by virtue of a fortunate accident of geology. The Cold War played a huge role as well; fear of the Soviets tied the Wests hands in dealing with despots for 50 years; if they played along they got left alone.  Eisenhower's abandonment of our allies in the Suez Crisis was the "awakening"; Nassar showed the Arabs that they could push back.

[Quick Karl]

I figured YP meant QK. I'm afraid the short run of civility in BG's political threads is over.  As for your thought; it all goes back to vast sums of Western oil money flooding into the Arabian Peninsula and financing Saudi Wahhabism's rise to being the dominant evangelizing force in Muslim world.  Eventually, the West will face a reckoning for its apathy in allowing a small, backward culture to hold substantial influence on its affairs by virtue of a fortunate accident of geology. The Cold War played a huge role as well; fear of the Soviets tied the Wests hands in dealing with despots for 50 years; if they played along they got left alone.  Eisenhower's abandonment of our allies in the Suez Crisis was the "awakening"; Nassar showed the Arabs that they could push back.

Tell you what - next time I decide to post a thought I will submit it to you so you can tell me what I should think and how I should express it this way you wont have to be obsessed with me and your fuzzy little ears and tender brain wont have to be challenged...

On second thought, I'm sure you know what I'm thinking... If you're so consumed with being civil maybe you should refrain from sparking a match?

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

maybe you should refrain from sparking a match?

Maybe you should climb a wall of dicks mouth first.  That would make everyone happy, especially you.

[Gd5150]

It's time for you to sack up and admit that this whole ISIS problem is because of you, and those who think like you.

When you need a worthless 5 second explanation of a complex situation that's lasted decades, turn to the ignorant libtard. Back to your xbox.

[Yorkshire pud]

Tell you what - next time I decide to post a thought I will submit it to you so you can tell me what I should think and how I should express it this way you wont have to be obsessed with me and your fuzzy little ears and tender brain wont have to be challenged...

On second thought, I'm sure you know what I'm thinking... If you're so consumed with being civil maybe you should refrain from sparking a match?

I'm afraid you brought it on yourself Karl. If I or anyone goes to default playing the man rather than the ball you've really only to look in the mirror to see the reason why. Might I suggest you look at the world from a point of view that not everyone shares your narrow view of it, and hey, they're right more than you are. And they came to that conclusion because some of us have actually ventured further than their bubble and it's inherent restrictions and seen life from another's point of view in their own environment, yep, even Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Pagans and agnostics. If that seems patronising, hard luck.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

I think the match is sparked by any poster who would start a thread by making vague associations in order to degrade everybody who leans left, or conversely everybody who leans right, rather than considering the complexity of a given issue. Someone who begins multiple threads this way should be prepared for vehement and sustained opposition and in fact is probably searching for it.  That's why I seldom post in politics.  It's usually nothing but a partisan pissing match which, unfortunately, is a microcosm of what America has become.

[Uncle Duke]

I think the match is sparked by any poster who would start a thread by making vague associations in order to degrade everybody who leans left, or conversely everybody who leans right, rather than considering the complexity of a given issue. Someone who begins multiple threads this way should be prepared for vehement and sustained opposition and in fact is probably searching for it.  That's why I seldom post in politics.  It's usually nothing but a partisan pissing match which, unfortunately, is a microcosm of what America has become.

Agreed.  I'll comment on military or diplomatic aspects/impacts of political decisions, but not on the politics of the decisions. 

[albrecht]

I think the match is sparked by any poster who would start a thread by making vague associations in order to degrade everybody who leans left, or conversely everybody who leans right, rather than considering the complexity of a given issue. Someone who begins multiple threads this way should be prepared for vehement and sustained opposition and in fact is probably searching for it.  That's why I seldom post in politics.  It's usually nothing but a partisan pissing match which, unfortunately, is a microcosm of what America has become.

I don't think it is an American problem. Technology and globalization seem to be, rather than bringing modernity or stability, allowing every crackpot, backwards religion, disaffected youth or ethnicity,, sexual perversion, disease, or fringe political ideas to be distributed easily and worldwide- sometimes with violent consequences.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Someone who begins multiple threads this way should be prepared for vehement and sustained opposition and in fact is probably searching for it. 

That person is known as a "troll."  Just fyi.

[Quick Karl]

I don't think it is an American problem. Technology and globalization seem to be, rather than bringing modernity or stability, allowing every crackpot, backwards religion, disaffected youth or ethnicity,, sexual perversion, disease, or fringe political ideas to be distributed easily and worldwide- sometimes with violent consequences.

Right on, brother!

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

I don't think it is an American problem. Technology and globalization seem to be, rather than bringing modernity or stability, allowing every crackpot, backwards religion, disaffected youth or ethnicity,, sexual perversion, disease, or fringe political ideas to be distributed easily and worldwide- sometimes with violent consequences.

So the solution from the right wing is (wait for it) suppression.  Freedom of speech for everyone...who thinks like you.  I am shocked beyond belief to hear this.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Well, at least it's not Yahoo Answers.

[Yorkshire pud]

So the solution from the right wing is (wait for it) suppression.  Freedom of speech for everyone...who thinks like you.  I am shocked beyond belief to hear this.

You spotted it too! I'd have thought the irony would have been easy to see before he posted. Apparently not.

[paladin1991]

Maybe you should climb a wall of dicks mouth first.  That would make everyone happy, especially you.

Wow, babe.  You eat with that mouth too, don't you. 

[albrecht]

So the solution from the right wing is (wait for it) suppression.  Freedom of speech for everyone...who thinks like you.  I am shocked beyond belief to hear this.

I never said that. I'm was making a factual point. Like with the printing press (etc) or any technology it can be used for bad things but, even when used for good things, can disrupt society or the system (this, again, can be good.) I never said anything against "free speech." So far the only ones, at least in power, who advocate such suppression are those leftists who advocate for "hate speech laws" and criticize corporations, considered legal person for centuries but re-affirmed recently, for having "speech." Or sued SOF and Paladin Press etc. Or blamed an author of the Turner Diaries for OKC bombing (recall when Art had author on show?) Of course, I could use the leftist logic and say "internet" is not speech but a vehicle for bullying, sexism, and hate so it needs to be regulated. Or anonymous posting be tracked or eliminated. But I won't. I have no problem with the open internet or free speech but simply point out the facts that they can be used for negative and/or disruptive persons also.

Of course, I also advocate discretion but can't force manners on people. Simply because "I have the right" doesn't mean I need to use it all the time, usually simply to offend or annoy (that "church" that protests the homosexuals and soldier's funerals. Or those who insist on carrying guns into fast food joints, or the homosexual parades, and Occupy trashing out parks and city buildings.)

[albrecht]

You spotted it too! I'd have thought the irony would have been easy to see before he posted. Apparently not.

No irony. I have never been against "free speech" or civil rights In fact it is countries like yours that limit speech (so called "hate speech" laws, elimination of grand juries and even juries for the most part, now allowing "double jeopardy" in criminal cases, and stricter libel laws providing civil remedies against speech in publishing--including with "super secret" proceedings so that the public might not even be aware of the case and the defense cannot defend themselves or plead their case in public. And now the EU is also trying to force ISPs and search engines to "delete data" so that articles or previous information already published about someone can be sanitized, changed, or deleted upon their command--- you know the rich, politicians, and evil corporations will love that!)   

[VtaGeezer]

US strikes on Raqqa, Syria (ISIL Hq) have begun tonight with US aircraft and Tomahawks.  Strikes reportedly have participation of aircraft from the Saudis, UAE, and Jordan. 

[Quick Karl]

No irony. I have never been against "free speech" or civil rights In fact it is countries like yours that limit speech (so called "hate speech" laws, elimination of grand juries and even juries for the most part, now allowing "double jeopardy" in criminal cases, and stricter libel laws providing civil remedies against speech in publishing--including with "super secret" proceedings so that the public might not even be aware of the case and the defense cannot defend themselves or plead their case in public. And now the EU is also trying to force ISPs and search engines to "delete data" so that articles or previous information already published about someone can be sanitized, changed, or deleted upon their command--- you know the rich, politicians, and evil corporations will love that!)

I don't drink but if you lived close to me I would consider it an honor to buy you a drink as a show of respect for your opinions and the manner in which you express them.

[bateman]

US strikes on Raqqa, Syria (ISIL Hq) have begun tonight with US aircraft and Tomahawks.  Strikes reportedly have participation from more than one Arab country. 

First footage:


http://youtu.be/FGVNL7Kg--c

[albrecht]

First footage:


http://youtu.be/FGVNL7Kg--c

Not quite as "cool' as the original Gulf War (recall watching that a bar and all those cruise missiles coming in. Wow. Or even as Gulf II: The Revenge-Shock and Awe.) But, I imagine less "imbedded" reporters with cameras to show the scene. I hope they kill them all. Let Allah, peace be upon him, sort them out. I say also let Assad take more action, it is, after all, still his country legally. (Though I won't be surprised if an errant missile goes wrong to help take care of that little foreign policy problem. Recall Clinton bombing the Chinese Embassy during the opposite campaign in Serbia? Siimilar anti-Soviet motives- in that case supporting the most radical Islamic elements and criminal gangs. whereas here we at least seem to be against the most radical Islamic elements, though Obama's pledge to arm some rebels and radicals is indeed worrying. Recall KLA, Al Qeada, his Muslim Brotherhood support, etc. )

Frankly, I don't understand the big-picture morality issues involved in bombing campaigns (Why nukes ok, but not biological? Why ok Dresden or fire-bomb Toyko but then Muslims, being so much more "peaceful" than Germans or Japs, need such selective, targeted strikes? What difference morally between land-based or submarine nukes? And if you are going to kill lots of people why science methods helping to target are worse: like neutron-bomb, targeted biological, or chemicals, and are those more evil than any type of bombs or just plain throat-cutting civilians? And the whole-thing about hollow-points and dum-dums being illegal in war but DU rounds etc are ok? I can shoot deer with a hollow-point, or a robber, but not some enemy in an actual war trying to kill me?)

[VtaGeezer]

The crucial piece of news is that Obama has convinced Arabs to actually drop bombs on ISIL.  So far the nations participating in the bombing include SA, UAE, Jordan, Bahrain, Qatar.