ISIS

[VtaGeezer]

I've also heard that members of ISIS have been spotted on the Texas border near El Paso.

Scary stuff.

Ten years ago, rural TX sheriffs were seeing Al Qaida infiltrators behind every creosote bush too. Get someone to slap you hard and maybe you'll snap out of it.

[albrecht]

There was no gas used at Brelin, you're thinking of the theater in Moscow.

You're right, I was thinking of the theater. They too afraid to use gas in Breslan n also different building so maybe less effective? What kind of gas was used? And why not develop some gas agent (or mister) that woukd render unconscious people with limited longterm risk? Big Pharma, our chemical warfare knowlege etc could, I think come up with something.

[paladin1991]

One school administrator ever went so far as to tell authorities their schools faced no threat because guns were not permitted in their buildings.

Hahahahah.  This moron doesn't work in the SoCal school systems. 

[Uncle Duke]

You're right, I was thinking of the theater. They too afraid to use gas in Breslan n also different building so maybe less effective? What kind of gas was used? And why not develop some gas agent (or mister) that woukd render unconscious people with limited longterm risk? Big Pharma, our chemical warfare knowlege etc could, I think come up with something.

Don't know if the Russians thought about using gas at Breslan, but considering the size of the school and the fact most of school's windows had been been busted/shot out, it's doubtful it would have been effective. 

There is still a great deal of controversy concerning the use of the gas to end the hostage situation in the Moscow theater.  The biggest problem was the medical first responders and doctors who treated the gassed hostages had no idea they'd been gassed.  Even when they were told, they were not told what compound had been used and therefore did not know how to treat those seriously effected.  I've also read a number of those who died did so as a result of the way the deeply unconscious hostages were positioned outside, on the ground after being pulled from the building by soldiers and other non-medical types.  I don't remember the specific medical details, but it had something to do with them being placed on their backs and their tongues falling to the backs of their throats and blocking their airways, resulting in suffocation.  Had they been positioned on their sides or stomachs, they would have survived apparently.

[pate]

Jeez, putting an unconscious person on their side in the 'recovery position' is a basic deal in Combat Life Saver course.

I hate wiki but here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_position

Sounds like those Russian soldiers and non-medical types were dumbasses

[Uncle Duke]

Jeez, putting an unconscious person on their side in the 'recovery position' is a basic deal in Combat Life Saver course.

I hate wiki but here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovery_position

Sounds like those Russian soldiers and non-medical types were dumbasses

No arguement, but they were under a great deal of duress in trying to get all those people outside as quickly as possible.  There is (or was) video showing rescuers running into and out of the theater multiple times, dropping the unconscious hostages and heading immediately back inside to get others.

[albrecht]

No arguement, but they were under a great deal of duress in trying to get all those people outside as quickly as possible.  There is (or was) video showing rescuers running into and out of the theater multiple times, dropping the unconscious hostages and heading immediately back inside to get others.

After the fact it is easy. In a crisis, especially one so horrible n unexpected. People complain but the training needs to happen. Lots of places here on volunteer fire departments etc. Great and great people but comes a real huge fire or emergency?  Even the best can fail. Coms are key also. Lots of depts use (d) different channels. Also the difference between a fire and terrorism are large. Terrorists often target first responders (more sophisticated ones like IRA who taught Arabs carbombs etc) did. Good news is the more sophisticated ones also have political agenda so try, usually, to control situation, make demands, etc. But the lone psycho or more nihilistic groups hard to stop (lucky lots of times their bombs dont work or blow selves up.) The combo of both like militant Islam is scary tho. Combines tech with almost nihlistic ambitions (die a martyr etc)

[Faustina]

It boggles my mind that ISIS seems to be "calling out" America and its allies by these very publicized beheadings.  Granted, maybe they do want a Holy War, but I can't understand how they can possibly think that they'll prevail in it, against the military of the USA and its allies, once they ramp up.  They'll go down in a few months of strategic bombing, it seems to me.  (Granted, I am no military specialist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night).

Perhaps they're keen to get to those 17 virgins (or is it 67?.... I keep forgetting the number) awaiting them, and want to go to them in a blaze of glory that will make them seem like heroes in the After Life.

[VtaGeezer]

I said this weeks ago:

Every time someone in authority or influence uses "ISIS" or "ISIL", what young Muslim men around the world hear is that the historic Islamic caliphate is being rebuilt by devoted young Muslims warriors. The zealot-murderers' image gets a boost and their recruitment goes up.  The currently used "ISIS/ISIL" reference is akin to officially and universally referring to the invading Nazis as "The Master Race".  They chose their name for the same reason the Nazis chose "reich".  Imagery. Emotion.

I wish Obama would issue an order banning any official reference to an "Islamic State" by name or acronym in reference to the army of psychopaths spreading through Iraq.  He should enlist the media to do the same.   Don't even use word "Islamic" or "Caliphate" in any context associated with them.Call them what they are, an apocalyptic death cult recruited by and from psychopaths.  Fight fire with fire.  Get a successful Arab-oriented ad firm to come up with a new moniker for this bunch of butchers that won't elicit admiration or respect among young Muslims by its mere mention in the world media.

Seems the French govt read my post and, for once, they're correct: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/09/17/france-is-ditching-the-islamic-state-name-and-replacing-it-with-a-label-the-group-hates/

Words do matter. Every time someone in high authority or in the media refers to these murderers as the "Islamic State" by name or acronym, somewhere a jihadi pawns his X-box and buys his ticket to Istanbul to get on the bus to Racca. This isn't trivial in the mind of the sympathizers.

[paladin1991]

After the fact it is easy. In a crisis, especially one so horrible n unexpected. People complain but the training needs to happen. Lots of places here on volunteer fire departments etc. Great and great people but comes a real huge fire or emergency?  Even the best can fail. Coms are key also. Lots of depts use (d) different channels. Also the difference between a fire and terrorism are large. Terrorists often target first responders (more sophisticated ones like IRA who taught Arabs carbombs etc) did.
*snip*

Solid observations.  Or is this your real world experience? 

[paladin1991]

I said this weeks ago:Seems the French govt read my post and, for once, they're correct: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/09/17/france-is-ditching-the-islamic-state-name-and-replacing-it-with-a-label-the-group-hates/

Words do matter. Every time someone in high authority or in the media refers to these murderers as the "Islamic State" by name or acronym, somewhere a jihadi pawns his X-box and buys his ticket to Istanbul to get on the bus to Racca. This isn't trivial in the mind of the sympathizers.

All the more reason to finish this shit.  Finish it in the Biblical sense.  Make them fear ever taking action of this sort again. 
I take a lot of shit at work fm my 'know more than I do 20 something Starbuck Latte Sages' for my 'fascist' viewpoints.  "What about all the innocent ppl that will get caught up in something that horrendous?"
My response, "Oh, you mean they are not caught up in it now?" 

[b_dubb]

Does anyone believe this group is fully autonomous and self supporting? It's obvious they're a proxy for third parties. But who? Russia? Saudi Arabia? Iran? USA?

[Yorkshire pud]

Does anyone believe this group is fully autonomous and self supporting? It's obvious they're a proxy for third parties. But who? Russia? Saudi Arabia? Iran? USA?

Saudi is funding them..but we'll overlook that political minefield.

[paladin1991]

Saudi is funding them..but we'll overlook that political minefield.

I find myself not giving 2 shits who is investing in them.  It's time for the interest dividend.  Blood.  Theirs. 
Finish it.

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

Dear Faustina,

I am really taken aback by this horrible orchestration of their showdown, but we have to take into account the terrible death also of the remaining hostages before they go to hell.

The best for us is to forget this hellborn story, there is nothing, what we can do.

All the best, Rudolf

[VtaGeezer]

Does anyone believe this group is fully autonomous and self supporting? It's obvious they're a proxy for third parties. But who? Russia? Saudi Arabia? Iran? USA?

I believe that it was no coincidence that they launched into Iraq as just as Putin made his move on Ukraine. What they pulled off in their Iraq blitzkreig takes skilled planning and logistical savvy that isn't gained in an insurgent civil war. Russia has a deep network in Syria and Putin is exercising it to play both sides; Russians pass easily as Chechnyans.

SA and Qatar are, as usual, the pious sugar daddies pumping in tens of millions. If the Syrian pipelines ISIL is using to smuggle  oil through Turkey are still operating in two weeks, we'll know who else is calling shots.

[FightTheFuture]

Does anyone believe this group is fully autonomous and self supporting? It's obvious they're a proxy for third parties. But who? Russia? Saudi Arabia? Iran? USA?

ISIL gets most of it`s revenue from the black market by selling ill-gotten oil at a dramatic discount. Estimates range from 2-3 million dollars per day.

[albrecht]

Does anyone believe this group is fully autonomous and self supporting? It's obvious they're a proxy for third parties. But who? Russia? Saudi Arabia? Iran? USA?

Not Iran- but likely Saudi and Qataris, though maybe not "officially" but via various "royals" who support radical Islam where ever it occurs. The US also supports them but, maybe, by mistake when we give weapons and training to Sunni Iraqi army and supported the various Arab Spring radicals in Syria and elsewhere. And when we slapped sanctions on Assad. now Obama wants approval to send even more money and arm to various "rebels", who no doubt, will turn-coat and end up joining IS/ISIS/ISIL.

[Yorkshire pud]

Nope, it isn't that simple. It never was. Jeremy Bowen is a highly respected ME journalist, has been for many years. That's some serious shit people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29260015

[VtaGeezer]

The Republicans are struggling mightily to maneuver Obama into sticking his head (and that of the Democratic Party) in the "ground war against ISIL is on the table" noose.  He's struggling just as mightily to avoid accommodating them.  The degree to which even offhanded remarks are flogged in the media and by opponents would be silly if it wasn't distorting US governance so much.

[Uncle Duke]

The Republicans are struggling mightily to maneuver Obama into sticking his head (and that of the Democratic Party) in the "ground war against ISIL is on the table" noose.  He's struggling just as mightily to avoid accommodating them.  The degree to which even offhanded remarks are flogged in the media and by opponents would be silly if it wasn't distorting US governance so much.

Just curious, how did you feel when the TV networks showed video of anti-war protesters holding up signs that said "Don't support Obama's wars" behind Kerry during his congressional testimony?  You mentioned the Democratic Party, must stick in their craws to see such commentary.

[VtaGeezer]

Just curious, how did you feel when the TV networks showed video of anti-war protesters holding up signs that said "Don't support Obama's wars" behind Kerry during his congressional testimony?  You mentioned the Democratic Party, must stick in their craws to see such commentary.

I think that was the Code Pink bunch; essentially naive pacifists.  Few see them as representative of Dems at-large.  I give them credit for standing up for their convictions. 

[Uncle Duke]

I think that was the Code Pink bunch; essentially naive pacifists.  Few see them as representative of Dems at-large.  I give them credit for standing up for their convictions.

Didn't say they were Dems or representatives of Dems (at large or otherwise), just that seeing signs protesting "Obama's wars" must upset the Dems.  Who was the last Nobel Peace Prize winner with his own war?

[Rudolf Zlabinger]

Does anyone believe this group is fully autonomous and self supporting? It's obvious they're a proxy for third parties. But who? Russia? Saudi Arabia? Iran? USA?

ISLAM itself is sick of these fools, they ruin their reputation in the whole world, they want them send to djehennah. They threatened Putin by the old gun jets found on Syrias militäry airport, the USA is at least setup by 2 beheadings, and the rest of world is not even aware of them. So IS against the world, how long do you believe that these megalomaniacs do survive? Hitler was the last fool, who tried that, but he had best organized forces, and lost in a really wretched manner. They are a crowd of foolish murderers, the core maybe trained fighters but they have no chance even for 3 months I think.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

France, of all people, is taking the lead with name-calling...

"However it's spelled, there's another big factor: The group is reported to hate the moniker.

The Associated Press recently reported that the group were threatening to cut cut out the tongues of anyone who used the phrase publicly, and AFP have noted that the term "Daeshi" has been used a derogatory term in some parts of the Middle East.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/09/17/france-is-ditching-the-islamic-state-name-and-replacing-it-with-a-label-the-group-hates/

[VtaGeezer]

France, of all people, is taking the lead with name-calling...

"However it's spelled, there's another big factor: The group is reported to hate the moniker.

The Associated Press recently reported that the group were threatening to cut cut out the tongues of anyone who used the phrase publicly, and AFP have noted that the term "Daeshi" has been used a derogatory term in some parts of the Middle East.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/09/17/france-is-ditching-the-islamic-state-name-and-replacing-it-with-a-label-the-group-hates/

France conducted their first air strikes on "D'aesh" targets today.

[albrecht]

So Congress has approved this Obama idea of arming and training the "rebels" in Syria (although we have apparently already been doing so covertly.) Big mistake. Just more guns will go to radical groups like ISIL/ISIS/SI. Several of the "rebel" groups have signed agreements with SI and all are Islamic-based and most have connections to the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.

I understand Obama's motivations to attempt to claim Islam is "religion of peace" and all that blather and this idea of claiming "rebels" are moderate, but I doubt it. It will takes months and good intel to determine who is "moderate." And even then they could be lying or defect (or simply run away leaving their weapons.) I would rather let Assad, Kurds, remaining Shite Iraqi army, and even Iran clean out the SI. (I know that would mean Shia winning and appearance of the Shia/Sunni war and Obama support Sunnis for personal reasons.) But I don't care. Let them fight each other and kill each other off. Less Islam=More Peace and the region needs strong leaders to hold down the radicals.

[b_dubb]

I'm glad you've got this figured out. Keep up the good work.

[Quick Karl]

So Congress has approved this Obama idea of arming and training the "rebels" in Syria (although we have apparently already been doing so covertly.) Big mistake. Just more guns will go to radical groups like ISIL/ISIS/SI. Several of the "rebel" groups have signed agreements with SI and all are Islamic-based and most have connections to the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.

I understand Obama's motivations to attempt to claim Islam is "religion of peace" and all that blather and this idea of claiming "rebels" are moderate, but I doubt it. It will takes months and good intel to determine who is "moderate." And even then they could be lying or defect (or simply run away leaving their weapons.) I would rather let Assad, Kurds, remaining Shite Iraqi army, and even Iran clean out the SI. (I know that would mean Shia winning and appearance of the Shia/Sunni war and Obama support Sunnis for personal reasons.) But I don't care. Let them fight each other and kill each other off. Less Islam=More Peace and the region needs strong leaders to hold down the radicals.

The civilized world has been reluctant to criticize Islam for nearly all of our lifetimes and the results should clearly be kicking everyone in their face.

When a person knows their next door neighbor is beating the shit out of his wife and using his daughter as a fuck toy, is it moral to close the window so you don't hear it and mind your own business? When more like him move into your neighborhood should you just sit there and shut the fuck up?

[VtaGeezer]

So Congress has approved this Obama idea of arming and training the "rebels" in Syria (although we have apparently already been doing so covertly.) Big mistake. Just more guns will go to radical groups like ISIL/ISIS/SI. Several of the "rebel" groups have signed agreements with SI and all are Islamic-based and most have connections to the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.

Syria is a country of 23 million; to train 5K troops per year is militarily insignificant. There are about that many rebel combatants killed every month or two. It's is simply window dressing to shut up Cap'n Crunch McCain and the rest of his merry band who are horny for getting the US into the civil war in Syria and want Obama to publish the US daily tactical plan in the WSJ every morning.  This bunch never learns.  Most of the stuff we're seeing from the WH is kabuki to mollify the armchair generals in Congress and hysterical media motor-mouths.  The intent is clearly to use air power to weaken and disorganize the ISIL butchers sufficiently for the Iraqis to roll them up and push them back into Syria and let Assad, with his Iranian support, deal with them.   (If it improves Assad's position, tough shit...he's not killing Americans.)  The US has done over 175 air strikes on ISIS; that means there are almost certainly American FAC eyeballs already on the ground.