Author Topic: Ebola  (Read 70651 times)

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Just to clarify: we have periodic epidemic drills in NYC and the surrounding suburbs, usually during the summer months. I wouldn't read too much into this particular one.
Though considering the real ones and others. One might not want to be so cavalier? Who knows? Panic itself can be a test. And we wouldn't want a "Mouse Who Roared" scenario!! Someone like Sellers could take over the city...and country!
http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/bioter/bioweapontests.html
http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/535/nuclear-weapons-testing-in-the-united-states-sacrificing-health-for-national-defense
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Island_Animal_Disease_Center
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014254924

 

Speaking of stereotypes...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/controversial-american-evangelist-morris-cerullo-returns-to-britain-for-one-final-crusade-9643696.html
And your favorite soccer, sorry football, but I will still say soccer because it is technically correct as football is rugby and various other public school sports and soccer is "association football", hence "soccer" in parlance, David Icke would say (renting out Wembley no less) good for him! Will he be able to talk about lizard-people? I like the more local level nut on the street or even in Hyde Park Square but, alas, that place is actually a big bust in recent years. I like the guys on the streets. Free speech at all (although I know you lot have gotten rid of that along with things like juries, guns, and even your own laws and regulations!!) Amazing. Land of Magna Carta and Common Law! Now you seek bureaucrats in places like Brussels and unelected judges in Luxembourg to dictate your life. Good on you mate- as your cousins, who just reversed their "warming" carbon scheme, might say!

And your favorite soccer, sorry football, but I will still say soccer because it is technically correct as football is rugby and various other public school sports and soccer is "association football"
Make it stop!
Take it back. You better take it back or I'm tellin'!

58 minutes later - "Pandemic Alert! Ebola crises". Sounds like that could be bad.


Ebola is very easily controlled. This one doesn't worry me. There's another one out there, however, that does.


Make it stop!
Take it back. You better take it back or I'm tellin'!

58 minutes later - "Pandemic Alert! Ebola crises". Sounds like that could be bad.
I will not take it back, especially after these arguments I've had at bars etc during the new soccer-kick in the USA (next craze since 1973). I stand by my claim that the Americans, Australians, and those (if any haven't fled yet) in the UK stand by that "football" was a low-class sport and the real football was rugby and the various and sundry games of the same sort at various public schools. And "soccer" was "association football" and dubbed "soccer." Which was based on training games and odd and (sometimes awesome) various local sport ball games. But associated with the lesser types.

Though considering the real ones and others. One might not want to be so cavalier? Who knows? Panic itself can be a test. And we wouldn't want a "Mouse Who

Not cavalier, just an observation. NYC subways are potential targets for bioweapons and the city itself is a permanent terrorist target. Apart from that and apart from today's headlines, there always is the potential for a pandemic or biological or nuclear incident, i.e. dirty bomb. The city and surrounding areas prepare for all these potential catastrophes periodically. Ebola may be on responders' minds today; a few years ago it was H1N1 flu. In a densely populated area, it's prudent to be prepared for anything.

Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #96 on: August 02, 2014, 11:28:14 AM »
I do wish the best for the guy, but I think is a very bad precedent.  CNN is showing live the ambulance carrying him is now tooling along the interstate in saturday Atlanta traffic with not so much as a police escort. They're one T-bone wreck or nut job in the hospital neighborhood away from loosing ebola on the Western hemisphere. Fucking oversize trailers require more attention than this. Witnessing the casual ans stupid handling of this potentially catastrophic transport is simply stunning.  Amazing.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #97 on: August 02, 2014, 11:56:59 AM »
Despite all the proclamations that this is perfectly safe, I don't like it one bit. I feel bad for the patients and their families, but I think it was a really bad idea to bring them here. One of my main medical transcription contracts was with Emory. It would have been quite interesting to transcribe this patient's course of treatment.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #98 on: August 02, 2014, 12:27:08 PM »
Despite all the proclamations that this is perfectly safe, I don't like it one bit. I feel bad for the patients and their families, but I think it was a really bad idea to bring them here. One of my main medical transcription contracts was with Emory. It would have been quite interesting to transcribe this patient's course of treatment.

Probably one of, if not the best testing site for diseases. I doubt there is any zombie agenda.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #99 on: August 02, 2014, 12:30:00 PM »
I imagine that officials must have pondered such concerns as traffic accidents and so forth; they aren't knuckleheads.   I'm not being purposefully contentious--just offering another perspective.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #100 on: August 02, 2014, 01:23:22 PM »
Probably one of, if not the best testing site for diseases. I doubt there is any zombie agenda.
I have no doubt that the isolation and treatment resources are top notch.  My concern was seeing the casualness of the transport and transfer; an unaccompanied ambulance cruising along the interstate on live TV for half an hour.  I think there was an SUV following a couple lengths behind, but no cops and no effort whatsoever to keep a buffer with traffic.  At one point I noted a passing sedan one lane away swerved far out of his lane toward the ambulance; distracted I supposed.  On or off the freeway, it operated just another vehicle; not even using its emergency lights.  It even stopped for traffic lights. I wonder how the folks in the red Corolla that were next to next to the ambulance at one stoplight will react when they see it on the news.

To show how f'ing inept the planning was, they allowed the patient to exit the ambulance under his own power in a biosuit and had to be helped down the 2 ft or so from the ambulance door to the pavement by just a single attendant.   If he had slipped or fallen, would his biosuit have ripped on the bumper or pavement?  All with a little group of onlookers gathering a few feet away. With one lone hospital security cop who clearly wasn't interested in getting anywhere near the guys in the biosuits. 

I'm sure once inside the hospital, it was all professional.  The transport phase, though, was either the amateur hour or bureaucrats' hubris.  I'm sure they take far more care handling a half gram of x-ray isotope...or filling the ATM in the lobby.

It would be a helluva "oops" if there was any release of virus in the US.  And this will open the doors for more of this.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #101 on: August 02, 2014, 01:24:16 PM »
I imagine that officials must have pondered such concerns as traffic accidents and so forth; they aren't knuckleheads.   I'm not being purposefully contentious--just offering another perspective.


Stop it now...We know what happens when you do that.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #102 on: August 02, 2014, 01:25:01 PM »
I'm thinking the plan here is both these patients are human guinea pigs for untested clinical treatments. Too risky to fly doctors in, so American citizens were flown out. Rationally I know Emory is a first class treatment center for infectious disease, and that every protocol is in place for quarantine, but emotionally this makes me very uneasy. On the other hand, rudimentary hospitals in Africa don't compare for disease control, so there's that.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #103 on: August 02, 2014, 01:26:38 PM »
I have no doubt that the isolation and treatment resources are top notch.  My concern was seeing the casualness of the transport and transfer; an unaccompanied ambulance cruising along the interstate on live TV for half an hour.  I think there was an SUV following a couple lengths behind, but no cops and no effort whatsoever to keep a buffer with traffic.  At one point I noted a passing sedan one lane away swerved far out of his lane toward the ambulance; distracted I supposed.  On or off the freeway, it operated just another vehicle; not even using its emergency lights.  It even stopped for traffic lights. I wonder how the folks in the red Corolla that were next to next to the ambulance at one stoplight will react when they see it on the news.

To show how f'ing inept the planning was, they allowed the patient to exit the ambulance under his own power in a biosuit and had to be helped down the 2 ft or so from the ambulance door to the pavement by just a single attendant.   If he had slipped or fallen, would his biosuit have ripped on the bumper or pavement?  All with a little group of onlookers gathering a few feet away. With one lone hospital security cop who clearly wasn't interested in getting anywhere near the guys in the biosuits. 

I'm sure once inside it was all professional.  The transport phase, though was either the amateur hour or bureaucrats' hubris.  I'm sure they take far more care handling a half gram of x-ray isotope...or filling the ATM in the lobby.

Yeah, concerning. But from what I have read, it takes body fluid to open wound or moist tissue to spread. I dunno, I think it makes more sense to have the bug here to study.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #104 on: August 02, 2014, 01:30:03 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28610112


Quote
It spreads by contact with infected blood, bodily fluids, organs - or contaminated environments. Patients have a better chance of survival if they receive early treatment.

Initial flu-like symptoms can lead to external haemorrhaging from the eyes and gums, and internal bleeding that can lead to organ failure.

A US relief agency is repatriating two of its American staff who have contracted the virus in Liberia.

A flight carrying the first of the patients - Dr Kent Brantly - landed at and US Air Force base in Georgia at about 16:00 GMT.

Hundreds of US Peace Corps volunteers have already been evacuated from the West African countries.

Separately, US President Barack Obama announced that delegates from affected countries attending a US-Africa conference in Washington next week would be screened.

"Folks who are coming from these countries that have even a marginal risk, or an infinitesimal risk of having been exposed in some fashion, we're making sure we're doing screening," he said.


A Doctor speaks:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28613885

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2014, 01:33:59 PM »
Yeah, concerning. But from what I have read, it takes body fluid to open wound or moist tissue to spread. I dunno, I think it makes more sense to have the bug here to study.
Both of the American victims are medical professionals experienced with Ebola.  Two out of the small number of Western Ebola experts on site in Africa infected...those are odds to give one pause.

And CDC certainly has ample cultures of live Ebola on hand and collects samples from every outbreak. 

I know the chances of an error are miniscule.  But so was 3-mile Island, the Challenger and Columbia losses, the BP blowout, etc.  The number of people casually exposed to possible infection in a mishap between the airport and hospital was insane. You don't need much imagination to visualize a disaster.  Should have been a secured transfer at 3 AM.  Or just build a SOTA research facility in W Africa. Containment should be paramount.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2014, 01:59:16 PM »
There are many other diseases we should worry more about, like all the TB, some resistant, coming over with our friendly illegals since we, or our children, are more likely to catch those. Ebola is scary as hell but, relatively, hard to catch. Especially in countries with a higher standard of living, less population density, and proper medical facilities. You need actual contact with the infected, not like the flu, the cold, or like the Pertussis and TB coming over with our friendly illegals. And the place where these patients are going are world-standard facilities and used to dealing with very nasty stuff. Though I must admit the odd delivery of the patients looked at little amateur. When the President was in town recently they shut down whole highways, screwed up traffic all day, etc. You would think for a very deadly disease they would at least have a roving escort on the route and block traffic. They do that for a basic funeral procession even!

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #107 on: August 02, 2014, 02:07:08 PM »
There are many other diseases we should worry more about, like all the TB, some resistant, coming over with our friendly illegals since we, or our children, are more likely to catch those. Ebola is scary as hell but, relatively, hard to catch. Especially in countries with a higher standard of living, less population density, and proper medical facilities. You need actual contact with the infected, not like the flu, the cold, or like the Pertussis and TB coming over with our friendly illegals. And the place where these patients are going are world-standard facilities and used to dealing with very nasty stuff. Though I must admit the odd delivery of the patients looked at little amateur. When the President was in town recently they shut down whole highways, screwed up traffic all day, etc. You would think for a very deadly disease they would at least have a roving escort on the route and block traffic. They do that for a basic funeral procession even!

We understand TB, getting nations to vaccinate, another story.

Oh hell, not all that long ago we had full on nuclear missles left completely unguarded on an air strip for 36 hours. I understand that things get concerning. All I am saying is this story isn't all that scary. The fact the victim could still walk is either a good sign or a really fuckin bad sign.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #108 on: August 02, 2014, 02:08:25 PM »
There are many other diseases we should worry more about, like all the TB, some resistant, coming over with our friendly illegals since we, or our children, are more likely to catch those. Ebola is scary as hell but, relatively, hard to catch. Especially in countries with a higher standard of living, less population density, and proper medical facilities. You need actual contact with the infected, not like the flu, the cold, or like the Pertussis and TB coming over with our friendly illegals. And the place where these patients are going are world-standard facilities and used to dealing with very nasty stuff. Though I must admit the odd delivery of the patients looked at little amateur. When the President was in town recently they shut down whole highways, screwed up traffic all day, etc. You would think for a very deadly disease they would at least have a roving escort on the route and block traffic. They do that for a basic funeral procession even!

Shall I bother? Yeah go on then...only 22 words in you manged to get 'illegals' in. Then mentioned it again. What is the take up rate for TB vaccination in the USA? 70%? 85%? 90%? As for the Presidents motorcade closing the roads; are you kidding me? Really? When did that start to happen? This year? Don't say since 2008 since black people got in the limo...No!!!

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #109 on: August 02, 2014, 02:17:26 PM »
All things considered, it's amazing that the patient was able to walk out of the ambulance at all when the statistical odds for his death are very high. I don't know much about Ebola, but I remember very well the early onset of AIDs and the response to that, myself included. Scary times. I'm not downplaying the seriousness of this disease in any way because it's one hell of a frightening disease, but there is a world of difference in care, medical equipment, ancillary health aide training and isolation between hospitals in Africa and in developed affluent countries.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #110 on: August 02, 2014, 02:30:59 PM »
We understand TB, getting nations to vaccinate, another story.

Oh hell, not all that long ago we had full on nuclear missles left completely unguarded on an air strip for 36 hours. I understand that things get concerning. All I am saying is this story isn't all that scary. The fact the victim could still walk is either a good sign or a really fuckin bad sign.
And recently someone cleaning out a closet found vial of smallpox! What worries me, a bit, is that the CDC says up to 21 days before symptoms manifest, which is longer than previous outbreaks. That is a little scary meaning people could travel far and also considering air travel, though airports have been alerted- but if a person is not exhibiting symptoms?

ps: according to the CDC: (http://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/factsheets/drtb/mdrtb.htm)
"Is there a vaccine to prevent TB?

Yes, there is a vaccine for TB disease called Bacille Calmette-Guérin (BCG). It is used in some countries to prevent severe forms of TB in children. However, BCG is not generally recommended in the United States because it has limited effectiveness for preventing TB overall."

pps: and we have the C2C, and others, telling people not to vaccinate their children for anything so, for example, the pertussis outbreaks we are seeing again.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #111 on: August 02, 2014, 02:33:35 PM »
Shall I bother? Yeah go on then...only 22 words in you manged to get 'illegals' in. Then mentioned it again. What is the take up rate for TB vaccination in the USA? 70%? 85%? 90%? As for the Presidents motorcade closing the roads; are you kidding me? Really? When did that start to happen? This year? Don't say since 2008 since black people got in the limo...No!!!
A very small population in the US is vaccinated against TB.
Tuberculosis (TB) Vaccination
"BCG is a vaccine for TB. This vaccine is not widely used in the United States"
http://www.cdc.gov/Vaccines/vpd-vac/tb/default.htm
"BCG is a vaccine for TB. This vaccine is not widely used in the United States, but it is often given to infants and small children in other countries where TB is common. BCG vaccine does not always protect people from getting TB."
http://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/faqs/qa_latenttbinf.htm#Latent4

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #112 on: August 02, 2014, 02:42:40 PM »
A very small population in the US is vaccinated against TB.
Tuberculosis (TB) Vaccination
"BCG is a vaccine for TB. This vaccine is not widely used in the United States"
http://www.cdc.gov/Vaccines/vpd-vac/tb/default.htm
"BCG is a vaccine for TB. This vaccine is not widely used in the United States, but it is often given to infants and small children in other countries where TB is common. BCG vaccine does not always protect people from getting TB."
http://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/faqs/qa_latenttbinf.htm#Latent4


That's where the USA falls down.. I was vaccinated against diphtheria, TB, polio and whooping cough as a kid. I had another as a teenager but can't remember what it was. I had measles and so did my younger brother, we were both pretty ill with those, him more so because he was about 4. All kids get chickenpox, so that's done with.

You need a vaccination programme to get immunity; God, magic, angels, and good luck is no substitute. The cost is no cost compared with the alternative.


A Doctor walks...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28625309

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #113 on: August 02, 2014, 02:55:10 PM »

That's where the USA falls down.. I was vaccinated against diphtheria, TB, polio and whooping cough as a kid. I had another as a teenager but can't remember what it was. I had measles and so did my younger brother, we were both pretty ill with those, him more so because he was about 4. All kids get chickenpox, so that's done with.

You need a vaccination programme to get immunity; God, magic, angels, and good luck is no substitute. The cost is no cost compared with the alternative.
The UK doesn't vaccinate for TB except in rare cases, it stopped general vaccination for TB in 2005. It was determined not cost effective vs efficacy of the vaccine and prevalence of TB. Norway stopped in 1995. France in 2007. USA never mass vaccinated for TB but the other stuff you mentioned vaccines are used and suggested. Also there is a vaccine for chickenpox now so more "forcing" your kid to play with an infected friend so they get the disease early.

But, as you say, some people won't have their child take them (usually Hollywood or conspiracy types but also some religious communities.)

With no control in the near sight, and tens of thousands of potential infected people on the loose, is it time to consider this the long overdue
"Big one"?

I think so.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #115 on: August 02, 2014, 03:10:57 PM »
I imagine that officials must have pondered such concerns as traffic accidents and so forth; they aren't knuckleheads.   I'm not being purposefully contentious--just offering another perspective.
They are exactly knuckleheads.

Ebola is very easily controlled. This one doesn't worry me. There's another one out there, however, that does.
As much as anyone would think, this would be easy to control. In reality the people are attacking the hospitals and health workers. The so called control measure used it failing, and the last line of defense are bombs and bullets.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #117 on: August 02, 2014, 03:18:24 PM »
They are exactly knuckleheads.


Yeah, they should have taken a cross section of the average forum user to advise them on their transport strategy.

As much as anyone would think, this would be easy to control. In reality the people are attacking the hospitals and health workers. The so called control measure used it failing, and the last line of defense are bombs and bullets.


Oh come on; why not go straight to bombs and bullets? That way someone will get a hard on.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28560507

I know you're not really interested, but most of the problem is superstition and fear of reporting a case in a family. They're terrified of it being confirmed, so attacking any medical workers isn't the highest of priorities...

But then, Doctors and nurses in US and UK hospitals that have to also cater for the asswipes of the world also get attacked by non Ebola carrying drunken, drugged up fucks. They should get the bullet, but not because they're afraid, but because they're fucks.

Re: Ebola victim brought to Georgia
« Reply #119 on: August 02, 2014, 03:28:59 PM »

That's where the USA falls down.. I was vaccinated against diphtheria, TB, polio and whooping cough as a kid. I had another as a teenager but can't remember what it was. I had measles and so did my younger brother, we were both pretty ill with those, him more so because he was about 4. All kids get chickenpox, so that's done with.
as was i. i got the chicken pox, and measles. the shot you dont remember what it was was probably tetanus, which is usually given after a puncture wound or severe cut.
Quote
You need a vaccination programme to get immunity; God, magic, angels, and good luck is no substitute. The cost is no cost compared with the alternative.

it should be noted that vaccines do not prevent a disease. vaccines only cause the body to recognize the pathogen before it can get established enough to be serious (and usually before symptoms manifest) and destroy it via antibodies . it does absolutely no good in those with very weak or compromised immune systems.