Author Topic: Ebola  (Read 74304 times)

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The woman at Gatwick didn't have Ebola. Just had a piece on the morning news.


I'm not sure if this is just one of those tests periodically done, related to the Ebola situation or due to the TB- and all the other diseases- currently being spread via illegals coming across our open-border and then being caught and then bussed or flown, with our tax-money, to states (even including Hawaii and Alaska.) Or infected illegals that are undetected moving about the country on their own.

Yeah, isn't just awful the way those "infected illegals" are bringing "TB- and all the other diseases" over "our" open border?!  Are you really that ignorant?

   Smallpox was lethal to many Native Americans, bringing sweeping epidemics and affecting the same tribes repeatedly. Within 1837 to 1870, at least four different epidemics struck the Plains tribes.  When the plains Indians began to learn of the "white man’s diseases" they began to intentionally avoid contact with the whites and their things.  But many tribes enamored with the white man’s things, like metal pots, skillets and knives traded with the whites anyway, and inadvertently spread disease to their villages.

Numerous other diseases were brought to Native American tribes, including measles, scarlet fever, typhoid, typhus, influenza, pertussis (whooping cough), tuberculosis, cholera, diphtheria, chickenpox and sexually transmitted diseases.  Each of these diseases brought destruction through sweeping epidemics, involving illness and extensive death.   Many Native American tribes experienced extensive depopulation, averaging 25–50 percent of tribal life lost due to disease.   Additionally, singular tribes also neared extinction after facing severely destructive spread of disease.  The significant toll that this took on Native populations is expounded upon in the article Population history of indigenous peoples of the Americas.   A specific example of this devastation was Cortes' invasion of Mexico.  Before his arrival, the Mexican population was estimated to have been around 25-30 million.  Fifty years after his arrival, the Mexican population was cut down to 3 million, attributable mainly to infectious disease.  Here we see the main effect of the arrival of Europeans in the new world.  With no natural immunity to help them in their fight against these pathogens, the native Americans died in huge numbers. The eminent Yale historian David Brion Davis says this was "the greatest genocide in the history of man. “Yet it's increasingly clear that most of the carnage had nothing to do with European barbarism. The worst of the suffering was caused not by swords or guns but by germs”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Native_American_disease_and_epidemics

That was a strange Pavlovian non-sequitur.


That was a strange Pavlovian non-sequitur.


I think the implication was that as various populations in the past have been destroyed by imported diseases, it won't be a surprise if it goes around again. The difference being, the bloke in isolation in hospital is unlikely to be spreading his seed the way it was done in  the past with reckless abandon. There's even a possibility he may recover. 



I think the implication was that as various populations in the past have been destroyed by imported diseases, it won't be a surprise if it goes around again.

I got more of a 'white people are evil' vibe.

The difference being, the bloke in isolation in hospital is unlikely to be spreading his seed the way it was done in  the past with reckless abandon. There's even a possibility he may recover.

Let's hope he does.

Pandemic Alert! Ebola crises might be blah-blah-blah
« Reply #185 on: August 04, 2014, 02:29:40 AM »
There's been a lot of discussion of this on Free Republic and I'm sure that some of of the posters are laboring under misapprehensions, but someone there said that it's mutated to become airborne. If this is true or even possible, it's a game-changer.

There is no need for mutation to occur to allow for airborne transmission - it has been known for 19 years that aerosolized virus transmission does occur. One must just be attuned to how scientists and media parse their words.

For my example, I'll use nasal secretions. When a person sneezes, and the droplets become aerosolized, viruses can travel through the air. If you happened to be in close proximity to these secreted droplets, and enough viral material made it to your conjunctiva or mucous membranes (e.g. nasal), well, you've just had a very bad day. Luckily, so far, most medical personnel who work near people who have contracted Ebola virus and are symptomatic, wear protective gear so that droplet transmission probability drops dramatically. However, I can tell you from personal experience, having worn isolation gear when caring for infectious patients (though nothing near as deadly as Ebola), that when there's an itch, one wants to scratch. It is easy to drop "one's guard" when confined to hot, confining, uncomfortable protective gear. So human error is a large risk factor for inadvertent exposure to any pathogen; it's just particularly heightened as making a tiny error in one's routine can be fatal with Ebola.

Additionally, it has been shown that, if Ebola virus is aerosolized down to 0.8-1.2µm, transmission can occur - which is why the CDC and other various US agencies have classified Ebola (among others as well) as category A biological weapons. When aerosolization is achieved at small particle size, transmission is easily transmitted through the air from coughing, sneezing, etc.

It has also been scientifically documented less than two years ago that, non-contact transmission of Ebola can occur from piglets to macaque monkeys. The piglets were purposefully infected via the oro-nasal route. To quote from the study abstract:

Piglets inoculated oro-nasally with ZEBOV were transferred to the room housing macaques in an open inaccessible cage system. All macaques became infected. Infectious virus was detected in oro-nasal swabs of piglets, and in blood, swabs, and tissues of macaques. This is the first report of experimental interspecies virus transmission, with the macaques also used as a human surrogate. Our finding may influence prevention and control measures during EBOV outbreaks.

So while I'd agree that currently, any one individual's chance of contracting Ebola is infinitesimally small, the probabilities increase dramatically as Ebola spreads to every continent, as it inevitably will, and one's choice to avoid contact with infected hosts or vectors decreases.

I do not see Ebola becoming as ubiquitous as colds or flu, as governmental authorities will make extraordinary efforts to contain localized outbreaks, so that an Ebola pandemic is highly unlikely (discounting troublesome mutations). However, I do see the potential for Ebola to appear in places we never thought probable - it's just a matter of time.

Note: the above information is all documented and sourced, but I just really didn't feel like citing every freaking reference.

The body has few ways to cope with stress. Sweating, nausea and vomiting are almost always the most prevalent symptoms to any physiological stress, excluding swelling. Anytime there is a "panic" mode, whatever symptoms present will be linked to the disease of the moment. Considering the person in question was traveling from a country with an outbreak of ebola... well it is gonna happen. And thinking zebras in an area where zebras are common... not that much of a leap.

As far as mutation, ebola and it's cousins are retro viruses, so mutation is to be expected. Ebola is a hearty virus which can live ex situ for up to 5 days. If it is stored in a frozen state (-70F) it can be viable for almost forever.

Yeah, isn't just awful the way those "infected illegals" are bringing "TB- and all the other diseases" over "our" open border?!  Are you really that ignorant?

   Smallpox was lethal to many Native Americans, bringing sweeping epidemics and affecting the same tribes repeatedly. Within 1837 to 1870, at least four different epidemics struck the Plains tribes.  When the plains Indians began to learn of the "white man’s diseases" they began to intentionally avoid contact with the whites and their things.  But many tribes enamored with the white man’s things, like metal pots, skillets and knives traded with the whites anyway, and inadvertently spread disease to their villages.

Numerous other diseases were brought to Native American tribes, including measles, scarlet fever, typhoid, typhus, influenza, pertussis (whooping cough), tuberculosis, cholera, diphtheria, chickenpox and sexually transmitted diseases.  Each of these diseases brought destruction through sweeping epidemics, involving illness and extensive death.   Many Native American tribes experienced extensive depopulation, averaging 25–50 percent of tribal life lost due to disease.   Additionally, singular tribes also neared extinction after facing severely destructive spread of disease.  The significant toll that this took on Native populations is expounded upon in the article Population history of indigenous peoples of the Americas.   A specific example of this devastation was Cortes' invasion of Mexico.  Before his arrival, the Mexican population was estimated to have been around 25-30 million.  Fifty years after his arrival, the Mexican population was cut down to 3 million, attributable mainly to infectious disease.  Here we see the main effect of the arrival of Europeans in the new world.  With no natural immunity to help them in their fight against these pathogens, the native Americans died in huge numbers. The eminent Yale historian David Brion Davis says this was "the greatest genocide in the history of man. “Yet it's increasingly clear that most of the carnage had nothing to do with European barbarism. The worst of the suffering was caused not by swords or guns but by germs”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Native_American_disease_and_epidemics
Sure, diseases have been spread in the past. And especially by "evil whites" and disease spreads effected the native populations in the Americas very badly (or, I guess "good" in the "evil white's" minds.) We all are aware of this. Children probably are taught more in school about that than things like math these days. So the open-border is just a revenge "get whitey" plan? A new Plan of San Diego scheme? Is that what you are saying? Or maybe just revenge on the "capitalists"? So we spread disease in the past, centuries ago, usually inadvertently (and it went both ways in some cases). That means we should be not concerned about disease spread today? Or that we "deserve it?" (What about the Indians, Blacks, Hispanics, and Orientals who might also catch the diseases, or lose jobs, due to the open-border or amnesty scheme- surely they are blameless. Why punish them in your "retribution" plan?) I assume we need to invade Ireland for Typhoid Mary or maybe send millions of "whiteys" to surge across the borders in China because much of the various influenza epidemics started there? I don't understand revenge motives on people whose ancestor's might have done something, usually inadvertently, centuries ago. But, I guess, this could explain the open-border phenomena if more others in charge think as you appear to. It is a way to seek "retribution" in order to "fundamentally transform" the country. I guess.

Folks, Ebola is NOTHING to worry about. Just relax and take a deep breath, for f### sake.
If you are a missionary worker in service to Sierra Leone or Liberia...perhaps you should be a little careful. If you help run an Applebees in Bismark; I`m thinkin` you`re out of the woods. RELAX!

I didn't get an 'evil white vibe' from Lt. Uhura's post. What I took from it was a matter of fact description how an indigenous population was decimated by the introduction of germs for which they had no defense and which did more damage than the inevitable conflict over land and resources. That was no one's fault. It was the result of populations on different continents with no contact and differing immunities intermingling. One day in the future, we'll face the same situation globally when we send manned spaceships to and from other planets and will have to deal with introducing our bacteria/viruses  into their environments and vice versa. What happened in the Americas is a microcosm of what could happen on a global scale, but even so, the old method of quarantine is the tried and true way of dealing with such a crisis, as it is now with Ebola.

I'd worry more about some paranoid follower of Jenny McCarthy or any other antivaxxer not vaccinating their kids and exposing everyone including the elderly, the very young, people with deficient immunities and all of us whose immunities have deteriorated over the years to measles, mumps and whatever else.



I'd worry more about some paranoid follower of Jenny McCarthy or any other antivaxxer not vaccinating their kids and exposing everyone including the elderly, the very young, people with deficient immunities and all of us whose immunities have deteriorated over the years to measles, mumps and whatever else.
This is already happening, especially in places where in the past someone could "get away" with maybe not vaccinate their children due to their paranoid beliefs but with global travel, immigration, population shifts, illegal immigration, etc the anti-vaccine movement is causing problems. Can you imagine being some parent who listened to the like of an "expert" like Jenny McCarthy and their child dies or gets seriously ill that could've easily been prevented?

News reports one of the problems in the current Ebola outbreak was also superstition, mistrust of doctors (especially considering of history of Europeans/Whites and Africa), witchcraft, and also the traditional handling and ceremony with dead bodies.

Sure, diseases have been spread in the past. And especially by "evil whites" and disease spreads effected the native populations in the Americas very badly (or, I guess "good" in the "evil white's" minds.) We all are aware of this. Children probably are taught more in school about that than things like math these days. So the open-border is just a revenge "get whitey" plan? A new Plan of San Diego scheme? Is that what you are saying? Or maybe just revenge on the "capitalists"? So we spread disease in the past, centuries ago, usually inadvertently (and it went both ways in some cases). That means we should be not concerned about disease spread today? Or that we "deserve it?" (What about the Indians, Blacks, Hispanics, and Orientals who might also catch the diseases, or lose jobs, due to the open-border or amnesty scheme- surely they are blameless. Why punish them in your "retribution" plan?) I assume we need to invade Ireland for Typhoid Mary or maybe send millions of "whiteys" to surge across the borders in China because much of the various influenza epidemics started there? I don't understand revenge motives on people whose ancestor's might have done something, usually inadvertently, centuries ago. But, I guess, this could explain the open-border phenomena if more others in charge think as you appear to. It is a way to seek "retribution" in order to "fundamentally transform" the country. I guess.


"get whitey", "retribution" plan, "capitalists"?!   I'm not sure who you are quoting, but it's not me.  My intention was to provide you with some actual historical information about contagious diseases in this country and to point out that your paranoia and attempt to scapegoat "illegals" is unwarranted.
 
"The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices - to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own - for the children, and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone." - Rod Serling

Albrecht, at least in my experience in school, it's our good old homegrown parents who have to be forced to get their kids immunized in order to attend school. In my school, unvaccinated children are no longer allowed in the classroom, and I work in a NYC district that is heavily immigrant based. They listen to this crap from people like McCarthy and that idiot Noory and his guests and choose to not vaccinate.  Meanwhile, the irony of their own good health from years of vaccination goes unnoticed.

"get whitey", "retribution" plan, "capitalists"?!   I'm not sure who you are quoting, but it's not me.  My intention was to provide you with some actual historical information about contagious diseases in this country and to point out that your paranoia and attempt to scapegoat "illegals" is unwarranted.
 
"The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices - to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own - for the children, and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone." - Rod Serling
Than I apologize. There are a lot out there who seem to seek some kind of "retribution" on the USA and Western Civilization for past mistakes or even accidental actions. We all know about disease throughout history. Which is why we should learn from our past and do things like secure borders, monitor immigrants or flights from lands with outbreaks, vaccinate where appropriate, and so forth. One small example, we don't vaccinate for TB in the USA so it makes bad sense to import TB-laden immigrants, some of whom might also have resistant TB, into our populations but to check immigrants if they are carrying this disease. An open-border eliminates that possibility of even a simple chest x-ray or medical evaluation.

"get whitey", "retribution" plan, "capitalists"?!   I'm not sure who you are quoting, but it's not me.  My intention was to provide you with some actual historical information about contagious diseases in this country and to point out that your paranoia and attempt to scapegoat "illegals" is unwarranted.
 
"The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices - to be found only in the minds of men. For the record, prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own - for the children, and the children yet unborn. And the pity of it is that these things cannot be confined to the Twilight Zone." - Rod Serling


Rod Serling should have been President. He was a supremely erudite and subtle man. Sadly the parables have been wasted on most.

Than I apologize. There are a lot out there who seem to seek some kind of "retribution" on the USA and Western Civilization for past mistakes or even accidental actions. We all know about disease throughout history. Which is why we should learn from our past and do things like secure borders, monitor immigrants or flights from lands with outbreaks, vaccinate where appropriate, and so forth. One small example, we don't vaccinate for TB in the USA so it makes bad sense to import TB-laden immigrants, some of whom might also have resistant TB, into our populations but to check immigrants if they are carrying this disease. An open-border eliminates that possibility of even a simple chest x-ray or medical evaluation.

Thank you albrecht, apology accepted.  However your assertion is that diseases might be carried in by immigrants, continues to focus on the politically charged "open-border" issue, which misses the point here.  What about the millions of travelers to the US?   

Michael Savage on the Ebola situation...
(he has a PhD in epidemiology)
http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/ebola-madness-is-epidemic/

Michael Savage on the Ebola situation...
(he has a PhD in epidemiology)
http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/ebola-madness-is-epidemic/


LOL, yeah Mike Savage is the 'go to' on anything.

Perhaps not.

Thank you albrecht, apology accepted.  However your assertion is that diseases might be carried in by immigrants, continues to focus on the politically charged "open-border" issue, which misses the point here.  What about the millions of travelers to the US?
I have a health passport, great idea that the Dutch use, long I no longer live there I still keep it. Basically it is a record of your various immunizations, boosters, etc. Over there I guess it is somewhat official (for example, to gain entry, and re-entry from, a country where yellow fever is endemic I can show the passport to show I have been inoculated.) It also helps you keep track. Our airports and ports do should also. If someone is flying back from, say, Canada or Norway, we can let them through quickly if there are no obvious symptoms of something. If they are flying in from Sierra Leone we should check them for symptoms since there is an outbreak there. I recall HK had temperature gauges at their airport during SARS. Not sure if that is cost feasible or useful. But certainly at minimum some extra scrutiny from travelers coming from countries where there are outbreaks or endemic diseases. The extra costs should be taken from the ridiculous TSA funding. Instead of groping grandma we could be more vigilant on the health-side. No system, excepting a totally close police state of no travel and commerce, and even then birds etc could spread stuff, but we can improve our vigilance.


LOL, yeah Mike Savage is the 'go to' on anything.

Perhaps not.
You just don't like him since he was banned from entry into your country! >:(


LOL, yeah Mike Savage is the 'go to' on anything.

Perhaps not.

Do you have a PhD in epidemiology?
Perhaps not.

You just don't like him since he was banned from entry into your country! >:(


Not at all...but it's fun you bring it up.

Do you have a PhD in epidemiology?
Perhaps not.


Yeah? You said the ones who brought the doc back to Atlanta were knuckleheads; your medical qualifications to overturn that course of action are what exactly?


Yeah? You said the ones who brought the doc back to Atlanta were knuckleheads; your medical qualifications to overturn that course of action are what exactly?


To my knowledge, knucklehead is not a medical term.
Though, in your case, it may be. 



To my knowledge, knucklehead is not a medical term.
Though, in your case, it may be.

I never said it was a medical term; but presumably you have a better idea than the medics who brought the doc back? Based on medical expertise you have.


Do you have a PhD in epidemiology?
Perhaps not.

And neither does Mike Savage - his Ph.D thesis was was called "Nutritional Ethnomedicine in Fiji"


Bloody hell, I agree with something you've posted..this deserves a beer.
Maybe a beer summit with art bell ?

Maybe a beer summit with art bell ?


Steady on; it would need careful planning, by which time (seven weeks later), he'll realise it's his round and pull out.