Author Topic: Missing Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation  (Read 48464 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #240 on: March 20, 2014, 01:19:17 PM »
Like I siad earlier, I would love to see all the ATC logs and Radar Data, something is not making sense, I am wondering if someone in the Malaysian ATC is playing CYA.
Since this began, I've wondered about the calibration of the time stamps on data from such disparate sources. 

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #241 on: March 20, 2014, 01:25:47 PM »
That's based on Malaysian ATC; and seeing the  performance of Malaysian organizations to date, I wouldn't believe anything they've said without a 2nd source.  Accept their hand-off msg time and NOTHING makes any sense.  Ignore it, and assume the message was before the turn and EVERYTHING makes perfect sense.

Why would the plane fly thousands of miles to the farthest reaches of the IO? makes zero sense.

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #242 on: March 20, 2014, 01:46:00 PM »
 I think they are not going to find anything.....then 3 months from now something is going to wash ashore somewhere and be found and linked to the plane.
 I just think its been too long for a centrally located debris field and any large fuel/oil patch has probably been spread to far out.
Maybe a Sub will hear the beacon from the Black boxes


Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #243 on: March 20, 2014, 04:10:29 PM »
I have to say I really love reading all these theories and learning all of the information some of you "top secret" types have shared here.  I'd like to see this story come to a bit of closure but it's also entertaining to watch the media trying to "cover" it.


Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #244 on: March 20, 2014, 04:15:16 PM »
Here's a thought I had...then dismissed as nuts:  Maybe Putin zapped it with their laser satellite as diversion from Ukraine.  If so, it worked...most people are much more concerned with MH 370 than the Russians grabbing Crimea.

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #245 on: March 20, 2014, 04:22:02 PM »
Why would the plane fly thousands of miles to the farthest reaches of the IO? makes zero sense.
Planes today pretty much fly themselves where ever they're pointed unless there's crew command/intervention to change the course.  It's happened before...google "Payne Stewart Crash".

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #246 on: March 20, 2014, 04:43:02 PM »
I think they are not going to find anything.....then 3 months from now something is going to wash ashore somewhere and be found and linked to the plane.
 I just think its been too long for a centrally located debris field and any large fuel/oil patch has probably been spread to far out.
Maybe a Sub will hear the beacon from the Black boxes


Would a sonar buoy, like those dropped by anti-submarine a/c, be able to pick up the beacons from the boxes?  Between the P-3s and the P-8 they could seed a huge area and search more effectively than conducting a surface search.

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #247 on: March 20, 2014, 04:49:51 PM »


Would a sonar buoy, like those dropped by anti-submarine a/c, be able to pick up the beacons from the boxes?  Between the P-3s and the P-8 they could seed a huge area and search more effectively than conducting a surface search.

Good Question, I was thinking the same thing.  I think you would have to know if there is a thermocline and if you could get the mic from the bouy low enough. I dont know how loud the pinger is on the box.
I am thinking best bet would be an Attack Sub just drifiting and listening.

Here is what I found its from ABC news take it for what is worth:
 a plane crashes into the water, an underwater locator beacon sends out an ultrasonic pulse that cannot be heard by human ears but can be detected by sonar and acoustic-locating equipment.

There is a submergence sensor on the side of the beacon, and when this sensor touches water the beacon activates.

The beacon then sends out pulses at 37.5 kilohertz (kHz) and can transmit sound as deep as 14,000 feet (4267m).

Once the beacon begins “pinging,” it pings once per second for 30 days. In rare and severe crash instances, the beacon may get snapped off during a high-impact collision.

Search teams must be about 25km in range of the beacon to locate it. Underwater terrain such as deep trenches could also affect how easily the beacon’s signal can be detected.

Here is something better from NPR:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/11/289189214/what-would-it-take-to-destroy-a-black-box

So Its needle in the haystack time....Like I said I dont think they are going to find it, something is going to wash ashore somewhere.

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #248 on: March 20, 2014, 05:26:53 PM »
If Oz or the US can get a sub in the area, it's towed array sonar would detect the ELB from a long distance.  Their sensitivity is outrageous.

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #249 on: March 20, 2014, 06:45:49 PM »
Oh I betcha there is one or two in the area....or enroute

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #250 on: March 20, 2014, 08:43:57 PM »
If Oz or the US can get a sub in the area, it's towed array sonar would detect the ELB from a long distance.  Their sensitivity is outrageous.

Can't this type gear be towed by both surface ships and helos as well?  Regardless of what's towing it, I assume there is a limit to the tow speed to cut down on ambient noise caused by dragging it through the water.  The effective range of the unit is probably classified, but even if it's 100 miles, could one sub or warship cover the total amount of ocean the RAAF's searching in the 20 +/- remaining days the boxes are supposed to operate? 

If this is the way to go, and the gear can be towed by a helo, the most efficient way forward would seem to be to deploy a carrier or LPD/LHP with anti-sub helos and put multiple birds in the air simultaneously.  Of course that solution limits the nations who could effect such an effort to a handful, probably only the US, China, India, and Thailand in the region.  No reason a combined multi-national helo force couldn't be used, helos do cross deck opeations with other navies in exercises all the time.

Yes, I know I'm talking about a very large and expensive effort for what is now clearly a recovery (vice SAR) mission, but it the world wants to get serious about this, and helos can tow the gear, seems the best approach with the effectivity of the pining of the boxes due to end in less than three weeks.

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #251 on: March 20, 2014, 08:44:52 PM »
If the heavy was flying that low, it could not maintain high speed.  The VNE  (Velocity-Never Exceed) for a 777 is A LOT slower at low altitude than it would be at say FL 32- FL 39.  If the pilot tried to go fast at low altitude, 3 things would happen.  1.  You would burn fuel like CRAZY.  2.  You would also burn up the fuselage from the friction.  3.  Your engines would overheat pretty damn quickly (minutes).   

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #252 on: March 20, 2014, 09:06:22 PM »
Can't this type gear be towed by both surface ships and helos as well?  Regardless of what's towing it, I assume there is a limit to the tow speed to cut down on ambient noise caused by dragging it through the water.  The effective range of the unit is probably classified, but even if it's 100 miles, could one sub or warship cover the total amount of ocean the RAAF's searching in the 20 +/- remaining days the boxes are supposed to operate? 

If this is the way to go, and the gear can be towed by a helo, the most efficient way forward would seem to be to deploy a carrier or LPD/LHP with anti-sub helos and put multiple birds in the air simultaneously.  Of course that solution limits the nations who could effect such an effort to a handful, probably only the US, China, India, and Thailand in the region.  No reason a combined multi-national helo force couldn't be used, helos do cross deck opeations with other navies in exercises all the time.

Yes, I know I'm talking about a very large and expensive effort for what is now clearly a recovery (vice SAR) mission, but it the world wants to get serious about this, and helos can tow the gear, seems the best approach with the effectivity of the pining of the boxes due to end in less than three weeks.
Towed from a ship yes, but it slows everything down and would cost more in fuel.  The Helios use a dipped style sonar system, and I think with that you have to be really close. But it all comes down to cost.
 It's easy to fly around and do a visual search, but when you start dropping soon buoys and such it gets really expensive.
I mean right at this moment in time we don't even have a clue were the plane went in I mean from the latest reports, they are still looking everywhere for it.
CNN is reporting that Mayalasia is sending 2 a/c to Kazakhstan to search...what's up with that? Do they know something we don't??  Like maybe better radar or ATC data?
This shit gets stranger and stranger each day.

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #253 on: March 20, 2014, 10:05:03 PM »
Towed from a ship yes, but it slows everything down and would cost more in fuel.  The Helios use a dipped style sonar system, and I think with that you have to be really close. But it all comes down to cost.
 It's easy to fly around and do a visual search, but when you start dropping soon buoys and such it gets really expensive.
I mean right at this moment in time we don't even have a clue were the plane went in I mean from the latest reports, they are still looking everywhere for it.
CNN is reporting that Mayalasia is sending 2 a/c to Kazakhstan to search...what's up with that? Do they know something we don't??  Like maybe better radar or ATC data?
This shit gets stranger and stranger each day.

Did you get to see the press conference from Oz at 0030 EDT (US) this morning?  Two men ran it, a civilian who headed up the Australian maritime safety organziation and a RAAF one star.  They were both very forthcoming, and after it was over, there was no doubt in my mind the one star knew the satellites had found the a/c and they were mobilizing serious assets to go recover whatever was left of the plane.  I expected to get up this morning to read they were conducting initial recovery operations with the help of a commercial vessel the Aussies requested to divert to the scene.  Very surprised they have found nothing, although admittedly they had a short day one (its's a four hr flight just to get to the site for the Orions and Hercs) and bad weather. I know they launched before first light this morning (local time) to be on station as early in the day as possible. Just looked at a news site out of Perth, still nothing so far on day two.


Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #254 on: March 20, 2014, 11:09:24 PM »
A possible murder/suicide theory would be that the (crazy) pilot killed his co-pilot, disabled the transponders, etc, and programmed the plane on a flight path to nowhere in the Indian Ocean, that included going to an altitude that would kill everyone, including the pilot early on. The plane would eventually run out of fuel, and drop into the ocean, along with all of the (now dead) passengers.

The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #255 on: March 21, 2014, 01:10:06 AM »
I'm really surprised that neither George Noory, nor Jimmy Church have brought up the fact that there were 20 people on the Malaysian plane that disappeared who were all from Freescale a semi-conductor company that was working on cloaking technology. This is for real! Why has nobody brought this up? Do people not do their research? At the very least it's a fun topic to explore! Remember when there was a guest on Art Bell many years back that was getting a patent on cloaking technology? Could the pilot have been trying to get the people from this company to tell them how it works? Could this be the greatest marketing ploy in our current history? What do you guys think about all of this? 8) 8) 8)

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #256 on: March 21, 2014, 01:42:40 AM »
What do I think? I think it's adding two and two, and getting 5. The (amongst others) flaw is that the pilot doesn't have access to passengers' occupation details.

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #257 on: March 21, 2014, 02:11:30 AM »
A possible murder/suicide theory would be that the (crazy) pilot killed his co-pilot, disabled the transponders, etc, and programmed the plane on a flight path to nowhere in the Indian Ocean, that included going to an altitude that would kill everyone, including the pilot early on. The plane would eventually run out of fuel, and drop into the ocean, along with all of the (now dead) passengers.

Why is there a belief that flying higher than a normal cruising altitude will kill the passengers? Concorde used to fly much higher than 50000 feet at Mach 2.

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #258 on: March 21, 2014, 03:30:03 AM »
I should add to the above (because it seems to have escaped the OP); just because an individual works in an organisation doesn't automatically mean they're involved in any project that suits the conspiracy theory. Such a company (if it's making as is being suggested) is compartmentilised. An employee can work on the next desk or in the next office and not have a clue what his or her neighbour is working on. So on that alone, the supposition is outlandish to say the least. You ask if people do their research?....Clearly not.

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #259 on: March 21, 2014, 03:58:41 AM »
Shredder, have you seen these videos?

http://bellgab.com/index.php?topic=4967.0

I think your conspiracy theory is as good as any, maybe better than most.

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #260 on: March 21, 2014, 06:20:12 AM »
I still  don't think the plane went down out there in the middle of nowhere. It defies all logic.

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #261 on: March 21, 2014, 06:26:04 AM »
... were all from Freescale a semi-conductor company that was working on cloaking technology. This is for real! Why has nobody brought this up? Do people not do their research? ...

One of our users, Mrs C, brought it up several times on the main thread for the MA Flight 370.

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #262 on: March 21, 2014, 06:49:39 AM »
The cargo was said to contain Li-Ion batteries.  What if they caught fire, the captain, having no way to put out the fire in the hold, then ascended to 45000ft and depressurized the cabin/hold to extinguish the fire.  Maybe the damage was too severe or maybe they just didn't re-pressurize in time..

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #263 on: March 21, 2014, 06:51:57 AM »
The (amongst others) flaw is that the pilot doesn't have access to passengers' occupation details.
Oh, Yorkie, you're not thinking widely enough.  The pilot doesn't need to know the occupation details.  He's merely a pawn who is doing what he is told.  "They" know the occupation details and give appropriate orders.

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #264 on: March 21, 2014, 06:57:48 AM »
The cargo was said to contain Li-Ion batteries.  What if they caught fire, the captain, having no way to put out the fire in the hold, then ascended to 45000ft and depressurized the cabin/hold to extinguish the fire.  Maybe the damage was too severe or maybe they just didn't re-pressurize in time..

You'd think if there was a fire, they'd report a mayday.   

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #265 on: March 21, 2014, 06:59:48 AM »
Oh, Yorkie, you're not thinking widely enough.  The pilot doesn't need to know the occupation details.  He's merely a pawn who is doing what he is told.  "They" know the occupation details and give appropriate orders.

"They" even have the capability to make one of the pilots look like he was responsible.

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #266 on: March 21, 2014, 07:11:36 AM »
You'd think if there was a fire, they'd report a mayday.

What if the comms were taken out by the fire (unlikely that they wouldn't have a window for an sos though).

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #267 on: March 21, 2014, 07:20:55 AM »
What if the comms were taken out by the fire (unlikely that they wouldn't have a window for an sos though).

That was my thought.

Re: The Real Malaysian Plane Conspiracy No One Talks About
« Reply #268 on: March 21, 2014, 09:19:43 AM »
Jimmy Church raised an interesting question last night.  What happens when a 777 runs out of gas?  Does it drop like a rock, or does it glide down?

Re: Crashed Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation
« Reply #269 on: March 21, 2014, 09:51:58 AM »
Why is there a belief that flying higher than a normal cruising altitude will kill the passengers? Concorde used to fly much higher than 50000 feet at Mach 2.

Because if you dump the Cabin pressure, everyone not on O2 goes night night.

Did you get to see the press conference from Oz at 0030 EDT (US) this morning?  Two men ran it, a civilian who headed up the Australian maritime safety organziation and a RAAF one star.  They were both very forthcoming, and after it was over, there was no doubt in my mind the one star knew the satellites had found the a/c and they were mobilizing serious assets to go recover whatever was left of the plane.  I expected to get up this morning to read they were conducting initial recovery operations with the help of a commercial vessel the Aussies requested to divert to the scene.  Very surprised they have found nothing, although admittedly they had a short day one (its's a four hr flight just to get to the site for the Orions and Hercs) and bad weather. I know they launched before first light this morning (local time) to be on station as early in the day as possible. Just looked at a news site out of Perth, still nothing so far on day two.


No I havent seen that one yet, will have to play catch up.  I just hought it was weird that the Mayalisians where in Kazakhstan looking.
I talked to my dad about P3 Operations (Retired  Flight Engineer on P3) He said that if they got out to the area, they can shut down 2 engines and extend the time on target for a little bit more.