Author The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread  (Read 79139 times)

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Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2011, 02:44:59 AM »

can you link to articles that support these assertions?

Just to add to what Ale said...

- I'm expected to believe some 20-something year old camel jockeys were able to hijack a plane, subdue 100+ people with box cutters, navigate the NY Skyline perfectly and hit a pinpoint target not once but twice with less then ten hours in a Cessna? Also hitting the Pentagon was an absolute aeronautic feat of a master pilot.


they didn't have to perform a take off or a landing. just point it.  as for the Pentagon hit, there are posts on this forum that feature video and computer models that counter your assertion


- Larry Silversteen taking out insurance on the WTC buildings right before the attacks. The owner of the WTCs made an absolute killing off the insurance money


i'm sure ... like anyone ... he has to re up on his policies occasionally.  can you link to some articles?


- The irregularities on Wall Street during this time frame


wall street is always irregular.  otherwise we'd all be rich


- The corporationization of our culture which is directly linked to the "war on terror"


can you be more specific?  our culture has been becoming increasingly corporatized for about 100 years


- The way we've fought the "War on Terror" has been an absolute sham. All we've really accomplished in Afghanistan is for the world's opium/heroin trade to flourish after being threatened by the Taliban's religious ideology. And we attacked Iraq for absolutely no tangible reason. Our response to 9/11 has been a convoluted mess of corruption.


you can thank Don Rumsfeld for this.  he's an idiot

- A neo-con think tank featuring several members of Bush's inner circle called Project for the New American Century outlined every thing that happened in the months leading up to Bush's election. Including a "Pearl Harbor like event to galvanize American support"


no clue what you're talking about here.  please provide supporting links

There's several more but those are the ones off the top of my head. I really don't like to get into discussions on 9/11 because most people are closed minded and emotional about it. However these are my thoughts. I don't know what really happened but there's way too many questions for me to buy anything about the official story. Especially with how 9/11 has been used to push modern America into a bizarro land unrecognizable from the version we knew on 9/10/01.


i used to think some of the "Truther" theories were credible.  but now i'm more inclined to think 9/11 was a confluence of bad luck, bad planning, and a poor choice for president


Also Art's close-mindedness on this subject is disturbing but I guess I understand. The thing that really irritates me is when he has security or civil rights experts on who express concern about the government's encroachment on our rights and how Art will automatically go against them hard no matter what.


i don't think our government agencies / agents have the capacity to pull off something like this without leaving some really obvious pieces of evidence




Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2011, 04:14:34 AM »
can you link to articles that support these assertions?


they didn't have to perform a take off or a landing. just point it.  as for the Pentagon hit, there are posts on this forum that feature video and computer models that counter your assertion

I didn't say it was impossible, I'm saying I find it to believe a bunch of guys with no experience except flying a Cessna for a few hours were able to make three pin-point strikes in a row. Here's just one of the sites that has sprung up to talk about this element of the attacks.

http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/

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i'm sure ... like anyone ... he has to re up on his policies occasionally.  can you link to some articles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Silverstein#Insurance_dispute

And if you google around you can find more info on this aspect.


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wall street is always irregular.  otherwise we'd all be rich

True enough, I certainly think the vast majority of high level corruption originates on Wall Street. However there were strong irregularities that day just before the attacks in most of our high level financial institutions. It could be just a coincidence but it was another thing that made me go  :o

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can you be more specific?  our culture has been becoming increasingly corporatized for about 100 years

In terms of the outright collusion of certain government contractors and the Bush Administration. The frightening rise of companies like Halliburton and they're protection by the government from seemingly any oversight. Also how the military industrial complex capitialized on the panic of the time to evolve itself into several public sectors our of fear of the terrorists.


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you can thank Don Rumsfeld for this.  he's an idiot

Completely agree, however we're fighting wars with literally no objectives and no enemies. I mean can the government really fail this miserably? I find it hard to believe there weren't several other motives.

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no clue what you're talking about here.  please provide supporting links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

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i used to think some of the "Truther" theories were credible.  but now i'm more inclined to think 9/11 was a confluence of bad luck, bad planning, and a poor choice for president

I'm not sure what to think of 9/11 but I've felt strongly from 9/12/01 that the official story was crap.



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i don't think our government agencies / agents have the capacity to pull off something like this without leaving some really obvious pieces of evidence

Yeah I'm not sure what to think about this.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2011, 04:20:09 AM »
Just to add to what Ale said...

- I'm expected to believe some 20-something year old camel jockeys were able to hijack a plane, subdue 100+ people with box cutters, navigate the NY Skyline perfectly and hit a pinpoint target not once but twice with less then ten hours in a Cessna? Also hitting the Pentagon was an absolute aeronautic feat of a master pilot.


And, sir, I'm expected to believe that you've never been on numerous flights like that as I once did?

Buddy Boy, that's exactly what happened. As far as "perfect accuracy," I can assure you it wasn't. Both flights almost missed their targets. I cannot waste my time describing what happened, because it makes too much sense.

I've been on many of those flights. Never before had anyone not needed the flight crew. Under airline policy, they were to go along with what was going on. So don't tell me about "overpowering" people with box cutters. People on the first three flights didn't resist because they either didn't know what was going on, or were lied to over the public-address system by the hijackers ("we are going back to airport").

Have you ever rode coach -- as poor people like me did -- on American or United? Back there, you have no idea what's going on up front. Please get that straight.

I hear many fools say our government did it. Baloney. I lived in South Russia years ago. And the common people told me something: These Al-Qaeda F*cks needed to be stopped. Before they harm the USA. Which they did.

I respect your views, however. But, I have lived and I know better. Sure, blame the U.S. Government if you want. But I never will.

Understand that losers like Alex Jones get fame and fortune for pitching their nonsense. And such get ratings, and get followers. And, to those supposed patriots, that's all that matters.

Basically, the U.S. Government can't find its own butt with both hands. Yet, we're to be convinced they carried out an overwhelming complex conspiracy -- and it went off without a hitch? And involved thousands of people? Get real.

What happened that day happened. I get tired. Enough of the conspiracy nuts. Get out in the world as I have, and maybe such will see the light.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2011, 04:24:48 AM »
See this is where it gets emotional and virtually every 9/11 conversation breaks down.


Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2011, 05:46:03 AM »
James I think you were a tad harsh in your tone but generally I'm right there with you regarding your position.  The conspiracy theories are far too complicated to be believed.  I feel like someone needs to post links to the videos regarding the plane that hit the pentagon and the computer simulation that explains the evidence at the pentagon crash site


Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2011, 07:54:53 AM »
James I think you were a tad harsh in your tone but generally I'm right there with you regarding your position. 

Thanks for your reply. Like I said, I've been on a lot of those flights. I'm not being harsh, but real. Those rotten Al Qaeda hijackers were more than being "harsh,' "blunt" or whatever when it came to taking those craft -- and what they did to people.

Life can be harsh, all. And blunt.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2011, 11:05:45 AM »

Barbarians in caves didn't make NORAD stand down for the first time in it's 50 year history 4 times on one day. 

They didn't change the laws of physics so that buildings fell at the speed of gravity following the path of MOST resistance. 

They didn't convince 6 out of the 10 NIST report commissioners to announce that the government had coerced them into excluding things like WTC7 from their consideration and that they had been "bullied". 

They didn't make the U.S. spend a third of the money on the investigation into the most horrible crime scene in our nation's history than we spent trying to find out if Slick Willy fooled around with some intern.
i see you people incessantly repeating things of this nature, but you don't provide evidence to prove or even substantiate your claims.  rather, you speak in talking points like a chatty cathy doll.




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It's especially hurtful to those of us who lost someone close in those attacks...
lots of people lost someone in the 911 attacks.  you're not special in that regard.  also, i'd be willing to wager most of them don't think the way you do on this subject.  furthermore, i've grown fatigued of people mentioning the death of a friend or family member in 911 discussions as if it bolsters their credibility or shields them from criticism.  i'm here to tell you it does neither.

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I registered here because I just had to comment, after a long train of comments on that show that just got me so down, I really started contemplating not listening to any show anymore if Art is on it.
you talk about potentially being dismissed as a nut and you criticize art for his supposedly closed mind, but here you are considering dismissing art ENTIRELY because he doesn't see your world view on this one... specific... controversial... topic.  this is the HEIGHT of closed-mindedness.  you're an all-or-nothing kind of guy/gal, eh?


i hate arguing with 911 "truthers" becuase you have so few answers to MY questions, and you refuse to listen to any evidence that fails to fit your preconceived jigsaw puzzle of purported facts.  it's just a shame the word "truther" has been applied to your belief system, because as i see it, you are peddling anything BUT the truth.


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You can dissmiss me as a nut or some heathen if you wish, but there are a LOT of folks out here that feel as I do...
there are also a lot of folks out there who believe in female circumcision.


you might feel wounded, persecuted, or just downright scolded as a result of my response to you here, but you need to remember that when you go into ANY message board and post the 911 pap you posted here, there is going to be some blow back.


i'm getting tired of posting these fucking videos for you people.  however, the repetition is probably necessary due to the fact that none of you watch them:






and now, watch the stupidity of typical 911 truthers IN ACTION:







Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2011, 11:58:03 AM »
Thanks MV your posting of those videos actually cleared up a question that I have had for some time.

9/11 nine and 1/4 years ago and this is the debate of the issue. I am more befuddled that there are still no buildings replacing the towers. If that doesn't paint a pretty clear picture of what we have become in this country I do not know what would.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2011, 12:32:58 PM »
I am more befuddled that there are still no buildings replacing the towers. If that doesn't paint a pretty clear picture of what we have become in this country I do not know what would.
you said it, brother.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2011, 12:54:16 PM »
I am more befuddled that there are still no buildings replacing the towers.

There is a new one being built.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_World_Trade_Center

http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/index.html

It's actually pretty far along.  I'd like to see the insurance price tag on this thing.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2011, 01:12:28 PM »
- Larry Silversteen taking out insurance on the WTC buildings right before the attacks. The owner of the WTCs made an absolute killing off the insurance money


The OP mentioned this early on in his post and that's where I stopped reading.  The idea of that is just insane.  Think of how stupid it would be to take out a life insurance policy on your wife and then off'ing her the next weekend.  Then multiply that stupidity by a million.  No one who seriously wanted to commit to a conspiracy on this level would throw up a red flag so obvious.  One could assume prior to the act that this would result in an investigation the likes of which this country has never seen.  I suppose after the fact this is debatable but prior to it? 

MV put my thoughts into much better words than I could do. 

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2011, 12:57:11 AM »
- Larry Silversteen taking out insurance on the WTC buildings right before the attacks. The owner of the WTCs made an absolute killing off the insurance money


The OP mentioned this early on in his post and that's where I stopped reading.  The idea of that is just insane.  Think of how stupid it would be to take out a life insurance policy on your wife and then off'ing her the next weekend.  Then multiply that stupidity by a million.  No one who seriously wanted to commit to a conspiracy on this level would throw up a red flag so obvious.  One could assume prior to the act that this would result in an investigation the likes of which this country has never seen.  I suppose after the fact this is debatable but prior to it? 

MV put my thoughts into much better words than I could do.

Not to mention that the several buildings had just been purchased in July of the same year. Of course they were insured.
I too am delighted that MV reposted. I guess what i had to say is now lost on the Radio Trainwreck site since it's change. Shame, since I had a great fact sheet on WTC 7 with links showing the extensive damage to the building. No biggie since MV supplied all that was needed. Well done.  8)
 
PS i know i wasn't going to reply to this 911 dreckitude again. sorry, consider it a fault.  8)

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #72 on: January 22, 2011, 03:47:08 PM »
And, sir, I'm expected to believe that you've never been on numerous flights like that as I once did?

Buddy Boy, that's exactly what happened. As far as "perfect accuracy," I can assure you it wasn't. Both flights almost missed their targets.

What are you saying here?  You have been on multiple flights that were hijacked by Al Qaeda attackers, so you can imagine how it went down?  What possible life experience could you have that would bring any bearing on this?

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #73 on: January 22, 2011, 03:50:25 PM »
They didn't change the laws of physics so that buildings fell at the speed of gravity following the path of MOST resistance. 

This is a bogus claim.  I once used my knowledge of physics to demolish this claim to a Truther, but do you think I was able to budge him at all?  It's like a religious belief for some people.

In fact on one BBS, I was accused of not knowing physics because I didn't believe in the conspiracy.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #74 on: January 22, 2011, 08:06:41 PM »
I think it's best just to let this thread go man.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #75 on: January 22, 2011, 09:20:25 PM »



this should help


Truthers.  lick your screen.


Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2011, 12:24:42 AM »
Wow, I really love how people are just labeled "truther" and thus easily dismissed.

The fact that I have seen many reasonable questions arise regarding 9/11 and that I'd like to see the answers to them would probably instantly label me as a truther.
However, I also recognize that there are slick people on both sides of the argument and thus I don't simply believe anything I hear.


But I would be interested in knowing what the explanation is for the free fall speed of the towers.
I don't have alot of time to research all these angles these days, and perhaps you may consider it a waste of your time to repeat it here, but I'd really like to hear it, "Do you think it was angels?"


Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2011, 04:01:51 AM »



this should help


Truthers.  lick your screen.

Why the venom? Honestly, it's coming across like this is very emotional and personal to you when it's really just conversation about a moment in history. I personally don't like to get into these conversations with Americans (especially over 30) but there's really been nothing in this thread (aside from the OP) to warrant these types of aggressive comments. I mean no one in this thread has claimed to be a truther yet you label and ridicule people who have different views or have questions about something. Think about how closed-minded and fearful that comes across. Also it just promotes a response of people wanting to get venomous on you.

I have questions about 9/11 and I don't believe the official story. That doesn't mean I think the government did it, that doesn't mean I'm a Truther. For all I know it's plausible the government hid the true story because they didn't know what the hell was happening at the time as what happened with Libya during the Reagan years or the Gulf of Tonkin incident. But you guys should really ask yourself why you feel so aggressive on this subject when it's been rather innocent so far.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2011, 07:50:12 PM »
i don't think anyone is criticizing questions.  what is being criticized are assertions.


Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2011, 08:13:59 PM »
the giant gaping assertions. that's what's being criticized

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2011, 11:16:21 PM »
But I would be interested in knowing what the explanation is for the free fall speed of the towers.
I don't have alot of time to research all these angles these days, and perhaps you may consider it a waste of your time to repeat it here, but I'd really like to hear it, "Do you think it was angels?"

Burning plastics might drive the temp above that of steel. The fire causes a multi-floor region to melt.

Once the region melts, the top half falls several floors onto the bottom half. This shock cracks all the supports of the bottom half, and the top & bottom fall at freefall speed.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2011, 11:30:58 PM »
Burning plastics might drive the temp above that of steel. The fire causes a multi-floor region to melt.

Once the region melts, the top half falls several floors onto the bottom half. This shock cracks all the supports of the bottom half, and the top & bottom fall at freefall speed.

Right on. The towers pancaked due to the lack of fireproofing. Floor supports gave out at the rivet points at the corners, and caused the collapse.

Those 9/11 Truthers are among the most ignorant people I've known.

America, all, is a country with freedom. Sometimes, unfortunately, it allows for people to make up ridiculous, ludicrous stories, then get publicity and make money from such nonsense.

Remember U.S. History as I do, all. Even Mr. Richard Nixon and his henchmen couldn't even carry out a half-ass, small-time, two-man break in and burglary of a obscure hotel room without leaving a paper and evidence trail the size of Mt. Everest.

Something these supposed truthers forget when it comes to conspiracies: It isn't easy. As they make it appear.

We are not that dumb.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2011, 02:52:36 AM »
sad that they removed the asbestos from the building for health concerns.  that would have probably saved the towers.  there has to be a replacement fire retardant that's available commercially, right?

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2011, 05:00:40 AM »
Ever see a human pyramid? When one of the performers loses balance, strength, or both the whole "structure" falls. Momentum and overstressed supports will cause a collapse everytime... mebbe not as (fortunately) precise as the towers collapse but collapse they will.

I think the most bothersome part of this whole conspiracy theory to me is that for a few weeks I had started to buy into it.

My level of distrust towards the political ilk of rumsfeld, wolfowitz, Irving Kristol et. al. being lead by Leo Strauss made it very easy for me to consider 9/11 as an inside job. I was wrong... hit me with a rock.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2011, 07:54:05 AM »
Quote from: James G.
Remember U.S. History as I do, all. Even Mr. Richard Nixon and his henchmen couldn't even carry out a half-ass, small-time, two-man break in and burglary of a obscure hotel room without leaving a paper and evidence trail the size of Mt. Everest.

And yet we managed the Manhattan Project, a monumental endeavor, done in secrecy, to perfection. I myself do not believe that 9-11 was perpetrated by the US gov't, HOWEVER, I do not discount the possibility of a conspiracy of silence. It is a simple matter to sit on information, requires no planning, needs absolutely no effort, and is quite common in the US gov't. This is as disturbing a thought as the Gov't planning it itself,  if not worse, as it demonstrates a blatant disregard for the mandate our government works upon, namely to protect the citizens of this country.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2011, 12:25:33 PM »
And yet we managed the Manhattan Project, a monumental endeavor, done in secrecy, to perfection. I myself do not believe that 9-11 was perpetrated by the US gov't, HOWEVER, I do not discount the possibility of a conspiracy of silence. It is a simple matter to sit on information, requires no planning, needs absolutely no effort, and is quite common in the US gov't. This is as disturbing a thought as the Gov't planning it itself,  if not worse, as it demonstrates a blatant disregard for the mandate our government works upon, namely to protect the citizens of this country.

I wish we had 20 million Woodwards and Bernsteins.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #86 on: January 24, 2011, 12:43:28 PM »
And yet we managed the Manhattan Project, a monumental endeavor, done in secrecy, to perfection. I myself do not believe that 9-11 was perpetrated by the US gov't, HOWEVER, I do not discount the possibility of a conspiracy of silence. It is a simple matter to sit on information, requires no planning, needs absolutely no effort, and is quite common in the US gov't. This is as disturbing a thought as the Gov't planning it itself,  if not worse, as it demonstrates a blatant disregard for the mandate our government works upon, namely to protect the citizens of this country.


the Manhattan Project was conducted in an isolated area under the strictest of security protocols.  9/11 conspiracy theory would have us believe that thousands of worker bees conducted a clandestine operation involving thousands of civilian bystanders and 4 commercial jet airliners in the full light of day.  that's a pretty big bite to chew on

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #87 on: January 24, 2011, 04:16:51 PM »
And yet we managed the Manhattan Project, a monumental endeavor, done in secrecy, to perfection.

The Soviets had a man on the very team!

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2011, 04:37:31 PM »
Some 9/11 conspiracy theory would have us believe that thousands of worker bees conducted a clandestine operation involving thousands of civilian bystanders and 4 commercial jet airliners in the full light of day.  that's a pretty big bite to chew on

I agree on the most common truther claims, however, not everyone who believes there was fault beyond the hijackers believes it was arranged by the us government. That's my only point. A conspiracy doesn't need to be thousands of worker bees doing anything, it just takes someone shutting their mouth, for a temporary amount of time, to bring down three buildings, and kill thousands of Americans, as well as leading to the deaths of millions in the middle east. Should I find that contemptible? or should I consider it laughable that our government is so inept that it cannot put information like the fact that it was getting planned itno the right hands? Either way, shame on them.

Re: HOW 9/11 WAS DONE
« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2011, 09:06:52 PM »
there's a Nova special called "The Spy Factory" about 9/11 and failure of the intelligence community.  there's a bit on there where an analyst from the NSA basically takes ownership of failing to raise the flag about the attacks even though he had all the intel he needed to prevent it.

i'd bet the deed to my condo that guy is NOT the analyst that fucked that up.  no way in hell