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This is absolutely UNCONSCIONABLE!!!

Started by starrmtn001, December 07, 2013, 01:16:04 PM

starrmtn001

I've always been a little apprehensive of posting here in the "Politics" Forum, but this latest travesty (Dec. 6) by the Obummer admin. just left me weeping and shaking my head.  Below is a copy/paste of my thread from another "BellGab Friendly" Forum.

If THIS doesn't snap some of you out of your OBAMA KOOL-AID induced COMA then what, for God's Sake, will???
This is absolutely UNCONSCIONABLE!!!
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...agles-under-wind-energy-plan/article15802556/

U.S. offers 30-year permits for killing eagles under wind energy plan

Under pressure from the wind-power industry, the Obama administration said Friday it will allow companies to kill or injure eagles without the fear of prosecution for up to three decades
>:( >:( >:(



11angeleyes11

Everything that is sacred and patriotic to our American heritage, is being pillared and plundered by the decisions of this charlatan. 

This is just another example.  I look for further miscarriages of our history and symbolism, but the Eagle should be untouched by any special interest.  And the wind lobby. . .

starrmtn001

I hope every American hunter understands what is really going on here and does NOT go on a killing spree.

How cool would that be if American hunters raised their voice in protest through INACTION.  Guess we will find out who the Real Americans are (the ones with balls)!

onan

I think this may be much to do over something not so sinister as being spun by some news sources. Certainly Bald Eagles being killed is an OMG moment for most of us. But the actual story needs a little more explanation.

Simply put, killing a Bald Eagle by choice is a crime. Since 1997, according to the US Fish and Wildlife service estimates a total of 85 Bald and Golden Eagles have been killed by wind farms.

By the looks of the story no one is killing eagles for sport; rather the eagles are dying by flying into the windmills.

To add, the permits have been in existence since 2009 but at 5 year windows. Now the term is being extended to 30. I am not sure there is a great deal of difference in six 5 year permits as opposed to one 30 year permit. Maybe I am missing something.

No doubt this becomes complex secondary to the desire to protect Bald and Golden Eagles and become more diversified in the types of energy we need as a nation.

In 2009 more than 20,000 bird deaths were related to wind farms. Nuclear power plants were responsible foe 333,000 bird deaths. And more than 14 million died due to fossil fueled power plants.

It seems Eagles are more likely to collide with windmills.

This isn't wind farms bringing out there .308's and gunning them down. And it seems the reporting that paints that picture is doing a fair share of manipulation.

Sadly, at least as I read it, wind farms and eagles want to use the same areas. And to take it politically, no one gave a fuck about the snail dart. But with Obama in office and a much more beloved critter in the limelight it's another "frikken Obama" moment.

Honestly, I don't need a feathered icon to motivate some combination of sympathy for an animal and the euphemism of patriotism. I don't want to have Eagles die, I also don't want to continue to use fossil fuels.

I agree, Onan, it sounds like there is more to the story than it appears on the surface...  We need energy.  They all come with some downsides, be it air pollution, so-called viewscape damage, etc.  (By viewscape damage, I am referring to something such as happened locally where I live:  the community college put up some really large solar panels arrays and has been able to actually meet all its energy needs; however, some locals complained that the pristine views they once enjoyed of rolling foothills now were "littered" with ugly solar cells.)

I wonder how many sea birds and other life forms were killed in the Exxon Valdez spill.  We all lamented that, of course, and Exxon was fined.  The bay is still now entirely clean a quarter of a century later.  So, yes, some eagles will be killed if we go with wind power.  Are the numbers so dreadful that the turbines should be removed?  I guess we have to consider the country's energ needs, the cost of doing business, the impact on the environment, etc.  No pun intended, but to make an omlette, you do have to break a few eggs -- sadly, these are essentially bald eagle eggs we're talking about here.

No easy answers....

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: starrmtn001 on December 07, 2013, 01:16:04 PM

Under pressure from the wind-power industry, the Obama administration said Friday it will allow companies to kill or injure eagles without the fear of prosecution for up to three decades
>:( >:( >:(

Not exactly; The companies aren't being allowed to kill eagles. The windfarms will inevitably kill eagles (in the UK, swans, geese, and kites have been killed by the turbine blades). What this means is the turbine owners won't be prosecuted if eagles get killed by a turbine. Birds do get killed, they can hit pylons, aircraft, get hit by trains, I've killed several birds accidentally whilst driving and once riding a motorbike I hit a pheasant. The story has legs because it's the national emblem so it's pandering to patriotism rather than the pragmatism of the policy. Sad but true.

starrmtn001

Quote from: onan on December 07, 2013, 02:11:13 PM
I think this may be much to do over something not so sinister as being spun by some news sources. Certainly Bald Eagles being killed is an OMG moment for most of us. But the actual story needs a little more explanation.

Simply put, killing a Bald Eagle by choice is a crime. Since 1997, according to the US Fish and Wildlife service estimates a total of 85 Bald and Golden Eagles have been killed by wind farms.

By the looks of the story no one is killing eagles for sport; rather the eagles are dying by flying into the windmills.

To add, the permits have been in existence since 2009 but at 5 year windows. Now the term is being extended to 30. I am not sure there is a great deal of difference in six 5 year permits as opposed to one 30 year permit. Maybe I am missing something.

No doubt this becomes complex secondary to the desire to protect Bald and Golden Eagles and become more diversified in the types of energy we need as a nation.

In 2009 more than 20,000 bird deaths were related to wind farms. Nuclear power plants were responsible foe 333,000 bird deaths. And more than 14 million died due to fossil fueled power plants.

It seems Eagles are more likely to collide with windmills.

This isn't wind farms bringing out there .308's and gunning them down. And it seems the reporting that paints that picture is doing a fair share of manipulation.

Sadly, at least as I read it, wind farms and eagles want to use the same areas. And to take it politically, no one gave a fuck about the snail dart. But with Obama in office and a much more beloved critter in the limelight it's another "frikken Obama" moment.

Honestly, I don't need a feathered icon to motivate some combination of sympathy for an animal and the euphemism of patriotism. I don't want to have Eagles die, I also don't want to continue to use fossil fuels.
Thank you onan for bringing calm understanding to an otherwise volatile possibility.  I read this article a couple of days ago but refrained from posting it until I felt I had my emotions under control again.  Instead I got angrier, as though I had been attacked personally.

Your post, onan, has helped me put things back in perspective.  Now my question is, how many other Americans have read this article and reached an instant "flash point" as I did?  Is it intended to emotionally manipulate Americans, or just irresponsible media practices? 

One reason I usually don't read the "Politics" board is that my "hackles raise up" regardless whether I agree or disagree with the thread.  Now, low and behold, I done dood it too.  My apologies to those who read with wisdom.

starrmtn001

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on December 07, 2013, 03:12:34 PM
Not exactly; The companies aren't being allowed to kill eagles. The windfarms will inevitably kill eagles (in the UK, swans, geese, and kites have been killed by the turbine blades). What this means is the turbine owners won't be prosecuted if eagles get killed by a turbine. Birds do get killed, they can hit pylons, aircraft, get hit by trains, I've killed several birds accidentally whilst driving and once riding a motorbike I hit a pheasant. The story has legs because it's the national emblem so it's pandering to patriotism rather than the pragmatism of the policy. Sad but true.
My reply to onan applies to you also.  Don't worry.  It's a GOOD thing. ;)

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: starrmtn001 on December 07, 2013, 03:14:43 PM
Thank you onan for bringing calm understanding to an otherwise volatile possibility.  I read this article a couple of days ago but refrained from posting it until I felt I had my emotions under control again.  Instead I got angrier, as though I had been attacked personally.

Your post, onan, has helped me put things back in proportion.  Now my question is, how many other Americans have read this article and reached an instant "flash point" as I did?  Is it intended to emotionally manipulate Americans, or just irresponsible media practices? 

Yes and sort of: The media need to get your interest, it's how they make money. Bad news sells far more than good news. Now, some will have you believe that Obama has the media in his back pocket. If that were the case can anyone reasonably think that the media wouldn't have put a positive spin on the story? If they'd written it up by suggesting 'Only X number Bald eagles will be killed by latest wind power policies', then yeah, there might be a valid point, but this is pitched to deliberately rise the hackles.

Here's Stanley.. I took the pics..  ;D






Ben Shockley

Quote from: starrmtn001 on December 07, 2013, 03:14:43 PM
...how many other Americans have read this article and reached an instant "flash point" as I did?  Is it intended to emotionally manipulate Americans, or just irresponsible media practices? 
DING DING DING DING  Right the first time!
You saw it working in here today; not to mention any names but some initials are 11angeleyes11.
Now just apply the same attempts at understanding and *gasp* INSIGHT as you hear or read other such "outrageous" politically-themed stories.  95+/100 will be pure attempted manipulation.
Better yet-- just avoid sources where stories like this are found.  "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." (Or as G.W. Bush put it:  "Fool me...fool me..twice... won't get fooled again!")
An old term for it was "yellow journalism."

You're right, starr-- that's what onan is good for: the methodical explanation and calm reason.
Me: I just "go off" and start pointing out what unmitigated mind-scrambled ignoramuses people are --not for them "mentioning" and then being amenable to facts and explanation, but for REPEATEDLY spouting the same totally fictional blatant crap over and over regardless of facts and explanations offered.   I imagine you've seen it.

Starrmtn, I salute your ability to process facts and avoid blind willful dogma.
Angeleyes -- work on it.

Yorkshire pud

Man,  I hate having 'the' mental disorder. 

Here's one swan trying to drown another... and then his missus joins in.

Ben Shockley

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on December 07, 2013, 03:23:10 PM
...Now, some will have you believe that Obama has the media in his back pocket. If that were the case can anyone reasonably think that the media wouldn't have put a positive spin on the story?...
I'll try to not go too far afield:
It's amazing to consider the degree to which people can accommodate totally contradictory bits and trends of information, as long as they can make both fit with --and when both individually support-- beliefs the people already had.
I think it's fairly obvious that the people most likely to believe the dark spin on this story would be those already disliking Obama; those people are also most likely in fact to seek out sources that provide them with anti-Obama-admin. propaganda; many would literally wallow in the stuff.   Yet, being surrounded by anti-Obama media (Fox "News," Beck, Limbaugh, etc.) --being the very people consuming the most of that stuff, and probably consuming a lot more of that than they do of "mainstream media and news"--those are also the very people most likely to say that "the media is in Obama's pocket!"  WHAT MEDIA are they even talking about?  Certainly none that they're wallowing in!
Yet, because it fits together with what they want to believe about the scary, scary half-Kansan, they are willing to believe that "the whole media" (except the anti-Obama propaganda they wallow in 16 hours a day) is pro-Obama propaganda!  Everyone else is brainwashed, they say (and you know the type, don't you Pud?), haplessly having been manipulated to vote for a probable demon from Hell--except them, who are hip to the fact that "the media" is hopelessly biased, having been informed of this by the one-sided media they surround themselves with.
Got that??

Little Hater

Well, at the end of the day, it's just a damned bird, isn't it ?

The fun part of this story is to see the alignment of strange bedfellows. The Audubon Society, staunch supporters of 'green' energy sources, suddenly have to slam on their advocacy brakes when a handful of their feathered pals are killed

NXOEED

Quote from: starrmtn001 on December 07, 2013, 01:16:04 PM
Under pressure from the wind-power industry, the Obama administration said Friday it will allow companies to kill or injure eagles without the fear of prosecution for up to three decades
>:( >:( >:(

I've always kind of wanted to eat one. They've got those thick, meaty legs.

area51drone

It's too bad the eagles are dying, but if there's nothing that can be done about it, what choice do they have?   I don't think they set out to kill them by any means.   If they could put screens up or something to help maybe that's something they should be forced to do, but I don't see why they should have to be held criminally liable for something flying into their device.   There are a ton of bald eagles up here by the way.  I don't think it's a truly endangered species like some might want you to believe.  I'm not saying people should be allowed to hunt them, but losing a hundred a year in these windmill accidents isn't going to destroy the population.

Sambo

That's kinda shitty.

Wind is so controversial. I've seen vertical turbines that look like you you pack in 20 for every propeller looking turbine. Nothing would survive those.

Sambo

Are Balds endangered?  I've seen a lot of them in Ontario and Eastern Canada. I always thought they were coastal birds

wr250

here the bald eagles are dying from disease. theres some footage they had on a local news station of on eagle being rescued. as the guy was wrapping the eagle in a coat, a mountain lion ran behind him, so im sure the lion had the eagle eyed for dinner.

Sambo

Dying of disease......  This entire planet

aldousburbank

Quote from: Sambo on December 27, 2013, 12:54:16 PM
Dying of disease......  This entire planet
Well ok so, as soon as the Obamacares website is good to go, the whole planet should be too, then.

Sambo

I don't care about your obamacare. Just keep your way of doing business and politics out of my country :) We have enough politicians with communications professionals giving us lip service while they get their kickbacks as it is already.

Quote from: Sambo on December 27, 2013, 11:54:11 AM
Are Balds endangered?  I've seen a lot of them in Ontario and Eastern Canada. I always thought they were coastal birds


To me it doesn't matter.  These stupid wind turbines things are killing all the birds that hunt by circling and floating along on the updrafts - hawks, falcons, eagles, turkey vultures, it's a disgrace.

The only reason these things were built in the fist place was to generate tax credits and write-offs, they don't add enough to energy production to justify these bird deaths.

Sambo

So I've heard. The generation and transmission is poor supposedly. Solar seems to do a lot better.

Then again some farmers and people looking to off grid living buy much smaller turbines for their needs.  Do we have any real unbiased numbers and comparisons on wind turbines?

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