Random Political Thoughts

[NowhereInTime]

Based on what? What benefit do you receive that makes you feel as though the taxes you're paying are justifiable?

The very fact that I am free and secure to write whatever I want here on this forum.  No small thing, especially in China, for example.
I know that there is a very strong, dedicated, patriotic group of people who will go anywhere and do anything to keep this country safe.
I love that we have some semblance of social contract (Social Security/Medicare) that preserves an economic system that, when fully realized, is unparalleled at producing staggering advances in quality of life.
I enjoy the responsibility of choosing my leadership and to publicly advocate on a candidate's behalf.
Do I receive cash benefits or public assistance? No, but I am comforted that people who are in dire circumstance can get some help.

It's not perfect.  Right now our economic system is under assault by wannabe oligarchs/aristocrats.  Right now our politics is tied up in cynicism.  Right now the world is a hot mess with too many Putins and Un's and not enough Mandelas, but we have all seen how great it can be and this nation is the nation to lead this world toward a vision of a greater tomorrow.

All too often, the conservatives here decry liberals for wanting "one world government".  Here's a dirty secret: it's true.  What's different from the conservative demagouguery, though, is that we want the whole world to experience choice in leadership and representation.  We want the whole world to have the right to fair advocacy in court.  We want the whole world to have the right to redress of grievance without retaliatory action.  We want the world to create social contract that permits growth. We want people to focus on ending suffering rather than personal enrichment.  Naive?  No. Hopeful.
Our nation offers better leadership, better potential than any other and can build on that hope.

[SciFiAuthor]

The very fact that I am free and secure to write whatever I want here on this forum.  No small thing, especially in China, for example.
I know that there is a very strong, dedicated, patriotic group of people who will go anywhere and do anything to keep this country safe.
I love that we have some semblance of social contract (Social Security/Medicare) that preserves an economic system that, when fully realized, is unparalleled at producing staggering advances in quality of life.
I enjoy the responsibility of choosing my leadership and to publicly advocate on a candidate's behalf.
Do I receive cash benefits or public assistance? No, but I am comforted that people who are in dire circumstance can get some help.

It's not perfect.  Right now our economic system is under assault by wannabe oligarchs/aristocrats.  Right now our politics is tied up in cynicism.  Right now the world is a hot mess with too many Putins and Un's and not enough Mandelas, but we have all seen how great it can be and this nation is the nation to lead this world toward a vision of a greater tomorrow.

All too often, the conservatives here decry liberals for wanting "one world government".  Here's a dirty secret: it's true.  What's different from the conservative demagouguery, though, is that we want the whole world to experience choice in leadership and representation.  We want the whole world to have the right to fair advocacy in court.  We want the whole world to have the right to redress of grievance without retaliatory action.  We want the world to create social contract that permits growth. We want people to focus on ending suffering rather than personal enrichment.  Naive?  No. Hopeful.
Our nation offers better leadership, better potential than any other and can build on that hope.

Yes, but everything you listed can be expected in any western nation. Sweden has way better of a social contract, for example, and those social contracts themselves don't exactly match up with the founding ideals of the US, thus they can't be considered patriotic.

As far as one world government, I consider it inevitable. However, I have no illusions. You will have to wipe about 60%-80% of the population off the earth to implement your ideas. You're not on the same page as most of the planet, thusly your ideas will never be compatible with tribal mentality or shariah (or any) religious law. Globally speaking, they will always seek to overthrow you, therefore they must go. While you might like the flowery way of thinking of it as some happy united world, I know that it's not that simple and international organizations such as various UN divisions that flirt with the concept of one world government have already found themselves having to do some of the dirty work.

UNFPA, as just one example of many, aided in the forced sterilization of hundreds of thousands of native peoples in Peru under Alberto Fujimori and the WHO praised him for it. It was an attempt at genocide by low birth rate. I urge caution to liberals in this regard, you aren't told by the media what really goes on in your name in this world and thusly you have no idea how damaging your ideas are when it comes down to the dirty work of implementing environmental, social and population 'sustainability'.

Anyway, so where is the line, what's the magic number as far as taxes where you'll say "this isn't worth it anymore"?

[NowhereInTime]

Yes, but everything you listed can be expected in any western nation. Sweden has way better of a social contract, for example, and those social contracts themselves don't exactly match up with the founding ideals of the US, thus they can't be considered patriotic.

As far as one world government, I consider it inevitable. However, I have no illusions. You will have to wipe about 60%-80% of the population off the earth to implement your ideas. You're not on the same page as most of the planet, thusly your ideas will never be compatible with tribal mentality or shariah (or any) religious law. Globally speaking, they will always seek to overthrow you, therefore they must go. While you might like the flowery way of thinking of it as some happy united world, I know that it's not that simple and international organizations such as various UN divisions that flirt with the concept of one world government have already found themselves having to do some of the dirty work.

UNFPA, as just one example of many, aided in the forced sterilization of hundreds of thousands of native peoples in Peru under Alberto Fujimori and the WHO praised him for it. It was an attempt at genocide by low birth rate. I urge caution to liberals in this regard, you aren't told by the media what really goes on in your name in this world and thusly you have no idea how damaging your ideas are when it comes down to the dirty work of implementing environmental, social and population 'sustainability'.

Anyway, so where is the line, what's the magic number as far as taxes where you'll say "this isn't worth it anymore"?

I have never actually stopped to consider that. I don't have a good answer now.

[thexfile]

I can't believe it's not democracy!


The United States is no democracy, but actually an oligarchy.
https://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/04/14

http://www.princeton.edu/~mgilens/Gilens%20homepage%20materials/Gilens%20and%20Page/Gilens%20and%20Page%202014-Testing%20Theories%203-7-14.pdf

Remember what the supreme court of five said.. "money is voice"

[PB the Deplorable]

... The United States is no democracy, but actually an oligarchy...

It's supposed to be a Republic. 

We've allowed the government to get too big, unaccountable, with Big Business and Big Government tied together at the top. 

We are now a Fascist country.  Doing what Fascist governments do - saturation spying on the people, spying on the media, siccing the IRS on political enemies, a President and Atty General ignoring laws they don't like, and simply decreeing others to be changed more to their liking - actions which are now seeping down to various State Atty Generals, the militarization of local police.  Seizing private property and private property rights.  Doling out favors or harassing people depending on whether they support the ruling party.  Everything else a big city political machine does, only on a national scale.

[Lunger]

All too often, the conservatives here decry liberals for wanting "one world government".  Here's a dirty secret: it's true.  What's different from the conservative demagouguery, though, is that we want the whole world to experience choice in leadership and representation.  We want the whole world to have the right to fair advocacy in court.  We want the whole world to have the right to redress of grievance without retaliatory action.  We want the world to create social contract that permits growth. We want people to focus on ending suffering rather than personal enrichment.  Naive?  No. Hopeful.
Our nation offers better leadership, better potential than any other and can build on that hope.

HA!

Since when do liberals have any interest in choice?  Sure a liberal will give you choice as long as you choose what they want. 
A liberal will give you a chance to vote as long as it is for their candidate and then you can vote as many times as you want.
A liberal will give you fair courts especially when those courts can overturn a decision by the people who chose incorrectly.
A liberal will will give you the right to redress a grievance, but if it is against liberalism watch out.  Both barrels will be brought against you.
A liberal will mouth off slogans like 'social contract's to 'ending suffering' and feeling very good about themselves while leaving a path of destruction and pain in their wake.

Fuck Liberals!

[NowhereInTime]

HA!

Since when do liberals have any interest in choice?  Sure a liberal will give you choice as long as you choose what they want. 
A liberal will give you a chance to vote as long as it is for their candidate and then you can vote as many times as you want.
A liberal will give you fair courts especially when those courts can overturn a decision by the people who chose incorrectly.
A liberal will will give you the right to redress a grievance, but if it is against liberalism watch out.  Both barrels will be brought against you.
A liberal will mouth off slogans like 'social contract's to 'ending suffering' and feeling very good about themselves while leaving a path of destruction and pain in their wake.

Fuck Liberals!

Sad.  You work yourself into a lather about your perception of liberals then proceed to embarass yourself with this ignorant and tone-deaf public diatribe.
I understand it may be convenient, but you can't just roll up everything you hate in to a neat package and blame it on liberals.
I hope someday soon you will find someone who can love you.

[FightTheFuture]

Pope Nancy at work. Of course, she loves her some good ol` fashioned baby killin`, so you won`t find her anywhere near the Roman Catholic church.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Pelosi-assists-in-Holy-Week-foot-washing-ritual-5411553.php

[b_dubb]

Pope Nancy at work. Of course, she loves her some good ol` fashioned baby killin`, so you won`t find her anywhere near the Roman Catholic church.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Pelosi-assists-in-Holy-Week-foot-washing-ritual-5411553.php

actually she won't go near the Catholic Church because she's against pedophilia.  Those baby fucking priests.  No wonder they're against abortion.

[Unquenchable Angst]

http://clashdaily.com/2014/04/boom-truth-blm-bundy-ranch-dispute-explained/

I hope one day before too late that the people will realize that  the left-right paradigm is  a divide and conquer tactic used by the oligarchs to keep people from really seeing what is going on before we slip farther into the  neo feudal slavery state  and the culling of the useless eaters commences. The name calling of each other does not advance your futile causes. It throws a wedge  and malignant insult and only proves your slavery to division and your inability to dialog and find common unity. Liberals and Neo-cons are pretty damn similar, They both have been stripping the wealth from this nation in order to gain control of the world and to reduce us all to slavery to our governments.
For you liberals take note Neo-cons are not conservatives. Neo-cons  are Nazi's and Progressives are following the game plan of Lenin. They are all nasty  and use people and discard the useful idiots  that praise them marching to their lies while totally believing they are the righteous inheritors of a great new world. Please quit being deluded by these manipulators. We have not had a president since Kennedy that was not under their control and the control does not matter whether Democrat or Republican. It is all CFR oligarchy and levels above that. That you may be too small minded to understand that it is not a conspiracy theory but an actual conspiracy that has spanned the ages and is now about to invent events that may destroy the planet. You are stuck in the politic-event distraction- hero worship of the false idols of diversion created to keep you from seeing beyond the 'curtain' of delusion they create to keep you blind . Yet they keep sticking your nose in their shit to see if you notice any reality from time to time. People come and go, shine a light on the reality and yet you discuss on this forum how crazy they are and yet you can't even discriminate that there is some truth in those 'negative conspiracy 'theories'.
It  really takes a sick malignant asshole son of a bitch to start calling  another 'cutesy' little mean spirited names. Shows you have lost the argument  and you shoot them a '00' racist or a  'slug' of tea-bagger or some other epithet of small minded meanness and lack of upbringing or rotten genes.
I do not like Republicans and I have known the Bush history going back to Vandever and Prescott . I have been registered in both parties from the time I registered in 1968. But the way all the Democrat shills blow out obscenities when their little brains can't pull off an viable argument or think that their own kind of little mean associates will think they are 'cool'. I will eat dog turds before I ever vote for a Democrat ever again. I am sick of the way Democrat shills have uglied  politics. Act like Nazi SA storm troopers, Intimidate dialog with ugly evil verbal pus and hatred. Nasty tools of destruction of the republic . Useful idiots of  a hateful ism projecting your disease on all.
We will see how things go with IRS being protector of the ideology and  health plans. EPA  shutting coal fired power down , How the nukes will hold up when the coal power isn't there for power when it gets cold again. How the farm produce goes feeding the nation at the time the California fields should be kicking in now since their water was cut off.  Also you think we got all that natural gas? Can not pump it with out power. Can not pump water and sewage without power. No pipeline decision till after the 2014 election another punk-ass political (non) move.. No more A-10's for the airforce, No more cruse missiles, no more hellfire missiles, no more Abrams tanks. All Apache gunships in National Guard use. replaced with troop carry Apaches. Most aircraft carrier fleet all in same port at same time right now. What's up with all this people?

[NowhereInTime]

http://clashdaily.com/2014/04/boom-truth-blm-bundy-ranch-dispute-explained/

I hope one day before too late that the people will realize that  the left-right paradigm is  a divide and conquer tactic used by the oligarchs to keep people from really seeing what is going on before we slip farther into the  neo feudal slavery state  and the culling of the useless eaters commences. The name calling of each other does not advance your futile causes. It throws a wedge  and malignant insult and only proves your slavery to division and your inability to dialog and find common unity. Liberals and Neo-cons are pretty damn similar, They both have been stripping the wealth from this nation in order to gain control of the world and to reduce us all to slavery to our governments.
For you liberals take note Neo-cons are not conservatives. Neo-cons  are Nazi's and Progressives are following the game plan of Lenin. They are all nasty  and use people and discard the useful idiots  that praise them marching to their lies while totally believing they are the righteous inheritors of a great new world. Please quit being deluded by these manipulators. We have not had a president since Kennedy that was not under their control and the control does not matter whether Democrat or Republican. It is all CFR oligarchy and levels above that. That you may be too small minded to understand that it is not a conspiracy theory but an actual conspiracy that has spanned the ages and is now about to invent events that may destroy the planet. You are stuck in the politic-event distraction- hero worship of the false idols of diversion created to keep you from seeing beyond the 'curtain' of delusion they create to keep you blind . Yet they keep sticking your nose in their shit to see if you notice any reality from time to time. People come and go, shine a light on the reality and yet you discuss on this forum how crazy they are and yet you can't even discriminate that there is some truth in those 'negative conspiracy 'theories'.
It  really takes a sick malignant asshole son of a bitch to start calling  another 'cutesy' little mean spirited names. Shows you have lost the argument  and you shoot them a '00' racist or a  'slug' of tea-bagger or some other epithet of small minded meanness and lack of upbringing or rotten genes.
I do not like Republicans and I have known the Bush history going back to Vandever and Prescott . I have been registered in both parties from the time I registered in 1968. But the way all the Democrat shills blow out obscenities when their little brains can't pull off an viable argument or think that their own kind of little mean associates will think they are 'cool'. I will eat dog turds before I ever vote for a Democrat ever again. I am sick of the way Democrat shills have uglied  politics. Act like Nazi SA storm troopers, Intimidate dialog with ugly evil verbal pus and hatred. Nasty tools of destruction of the republic . Useful idiots of  a hateful ism projecting your disease on all.
We will see how things go with IRS being protector of the ideology and  health plans. EPA  shutting coal fired power down , How the nukes will hold up when the coal power isn't there for power when it gets cold again. How the farm produce goes feeding the nation at the time the California fields should be kicking in now since their water was cut off.  Also you think we got all that natural gas? Can not pump it with out power. Can not pump water and sewage without power. No pipeline decision till after the 2014 election another punk-ass political (non) move.. No more A-10's for the airforce, No more cruse missiles, no more hellfire missiles, no more Abrams tanks. All Apache gunships in National Guard use. replaced with troop carry Apaches. Most aircraft carrier fleet all in same port at same time right now. What's up with all this people?

Two things:
1) Please check your CO detector.

2) Its funny how people who claim neither to be Dem or Repub and who decry the adversarial political process invariably still wind up attacking liberals.  Even more obvious than the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing...

Oh, no! Truly You are above the pigslop that is politics yet, somehow, by gosh, its those damn liberals and their "shills" who shout out obsecenities (?) who are sullying the dignity of American discourse and deluding the salt-of-the-earth faithful from the real enemy: (I'm sorry, who again?) Conservatives get a pass?  Really?  Please note my shock and surprise.

Get in line; you sound like a broken record. A broken, scribbled record.

[albrecht]

More tax madness: "Taxpayers Rely On IRS Guidance At Their Own Peril,' Tax Judge Rules"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2014/04/18/taxpayers-rely-on-irs-guidance-at-their-own-peril-tax-judge-rules/

Even in the special US Tax Courts, (which of course according to the Supreme Court is not really a "court" but a regulatory body (Old Colony Trust Co v Commissioner 1929) but then by statute made a court in 1969), where you won't get a jury (and not even a judge "of your peers"), say that following the IRS's guidance and publications is no excuse or defense for breaking the tax laws/regulations. Considering that one could hire several tax attorneys and accountants, give them the same set of books, and come up with different tax filings and that we can't even use the IRS's direction as an excuse it is time to consider a flat tax, national sales tax, or something different!!

[Unquenchable Angst]

Something I can count on  from Nowhere is smug little innuendos and ad homonym  attacks. You sir, are a cheap trick  and a totalitarian narrow minded poser. As W. Reich explained the disorder as; afflicted with emotional plague. You sir, rather than present virtue of your arguments you resort to nasty outpouring of nasty repulsive repugnant filthy invective

[NowhereInTime]

Something I can count on  from Nowhere is smug little innuendos and ad homonym  attacks. You sir, are a cheap trick  and a totalitarian narrow minded poser. As W. Reich explained the disorder as; afflicted with emotional plague. You sir, rather than present virtue of your arguments you resort to nasty outpouring of nasty repulsive repugnant filthy invective

Here are the virtues of my various arguments:
1) Liberals place a higher value on the well being of people than conservatives.  We care that people can get healthy and educated.
2) The blame that is so often assessed to the government in terms of pricing and privacy violation is really a function of private enterprise.   Conservatives will never accept that, but your privacy has been subsumed by the likes of Google, American Express, and the Nielsen ratings long before Uncle Sam started getting curious as to whether you prefer Persian Kitty to Mr Double's.   THe pricing issues you always lay off on taxes are too often the manipulation of consumables by the 1 percent, but somehow that's ok by you.
3) We believe in science.  When lots of scientists say "Manmade climate change is going to destroy lives if left unchecked." I tend not to disagree. they are smarter than me and have studied and studied.
4) We believe in facts.  When conservatives were crying about the sky falling in with Obama's deficit spending and the Fed's money printing we said "Relax, people will still buy US debt"  and they did.  Interest rates have barely budged and, in fact CBO is now projecting a reduced deficit and possible short term surpluses.  There are ways to solve problems that don't require making starving people lay down and die.
5) we are sick of "ad hominem" (boy, do you guys love that term...) attacks from your side that we are "marxists", or "naive" or criminal or whatever else you use to denigrate us. So, have at you.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

More tax madness: "Taxpayers Rely On IRS Guidance At Their Own Peril,' Tax Judge Rules"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2014/04/18/taxpayers-rely-on-irs-guidance-at-their-own-peril-tax-judge-rules/

Even in the special US Tax Courts, (which of course according to the Supreme Court is not really a "court" but a regulatory body (Old Colony Trust Co v Commissioner 1929) but then by statute made a court in 1969), where you won't get a jury (and not even a judge "of your peers"), say that following the IRS's guidance and publications is no excuse or defense for breaking the tax laws/regulations. Considering that one could hire several tax attorneys and accountants, give them the same set of books, and come up with different tax filings and that we can't even use the IRS's direction as an excuse it is time to consider a flat tax, national sales tax, or something different!!

Great catch albrecht.

This case was between the IRS and a tax professional: "Alvan Bobrow, a leader of Mayer Brown’s tax practice and former General Tax Counsel". This guy knows taxes in and out and is a tax lawyer.

As a side note he pulled out 65k and ended up paying 32k (about half of the total) in fines after a 6 year delay. In actuality this is cheaper than most loans. It is extremely clever.

[albrecht]

Great catch albrecht.

This case was between the IRS and a tax professional: "Alvan Bobrow, a leader of Mayer Brown’s tax practice and former General Tax Counsel". This guy knows taxes in and out and is a tax lawyer.

As a side note he pulled out 65k and ended up paying 32k (about half of the total) in fines after a 6 year delay. In actuality this is cheaper than most loans. It is extremely clever.

Thanks but it was the Forbes guy who caught it. Ignoring the sheer costs, stress, and lives this Byzantine tax code causes what about the opportunity costs involved? Imagine all the talent, lobbying, Congressional cloakroom intrique,  and time used to deal with, manipulate, and abide by these tax code if used instead for productive economic use! A national sales tax or flat income tax or almost anything else is needed!!

[NowhereInTime]

Something I can count on  from Nowhere is smug little innuendos and ad homonym  attacks. You sir, are a cheap trick  and a totalitarian narrow minded poser. As W. Reich explained the disorder as; afflicted with emotional plague. You sir, rather than present virtue of your arguments you resort to nasty outpouring of nasty repulsive repugnant filthy invective

Further:
1) I hate Cheap Trick.  Worst. Band. Ever.  Led Zeppelin Rules! Cheap Trick are Fools!
2) "Totalitarian Poser."  What I do with my Mao costume in the privacy of my own home is not your business!
3) "nasty repulsive repugnant filthy invective": because I dared invoke "pigslop"?!? A little sensitive, aren't we? I hope I didn't hit a nerve...

[SciFiAuthor]

Further:
2) "Totalitarian Poser."  What I do with my Mao costume in the privacy of my own home is not your business!

I can totally see that. As soon as everyone leaves, you pull a lever and all the paintings in the house flip around to reveal Marx and Engels and a Lenin bust rises from the floor, a hammer and sickle flag unrolls and a scratchy old recording of the Internationale starts playing.

Of course my own den in the cabin is set up much that way. Cheap Trick starts blasting from the stereo and blow up dolls of William F. Buckley and Barry Goldwater explosively inflate like automotive air bags. Then I get hammered on Gordon's and yell obscenities at whomever looks like a liberal from the window.   

[RealCool Daddio]

I can totally see that. As soon as everyone leaves, you pull a lever and all the paintings in the house flip around to reveal Marx and Engels and a Lenin bust rises from the floor, a hammer and sickle flag unrolls and a scratchy old recording of the Internationale starts playing.

Of course my own den in the cabin is set up much that way. Cheap Trick starts blasting from the stereo and blow up dolls of William F. Buckley and Barry Goldwater explosively inflate like automotive air bags. Then I get hammered on Gordon's and yell obscenities at whoever looks like a liberal from the window.

I bet those Buckley and Goldwater dolls need professional cleaning by the time "The Flame" is done.

[SciFiAuthor]

I bet those Buckley and Goldwater dolls need professional cleaning by the time "The Flame" is done.

Let's just say that the local tire patch industry is booming.

[Quick Karl]

Hey nitwit, you fucking queer, why don't you do society a favor and stand in the middle of a busy intersection somewhere, and blow the feces out of your skull with a .45 in broad daylight?

It would be an act of patriotism, and would restore your mother and father's reputation in the community.

[Yorkshire pud]

Hey nitwit, you fucking queer, why don't you do society a favor and stand in the middle of a busy intersection somewhere, and blow the feces out of your skull with a .45 in broad daylight?

It would be an act of patriotism, and would restore your mother and father's reputation in the community.

Oh dear. You do leave yourself wide open to a counter attack. Especially when it's your bête noire. How is your mate Phil the beard? Sending you fan mail?

[Yorkshire pud]

I bet those Buckley and Goldwater dolls need professional cleaning by the time "The Flame" is done.

They need cleaning when the noses start running.

[West of the Rockies]

Oh dear. You do leave yourself wide open to a counter attack. Especially when it's your bête noire. How is your mate Phil the beard? Sending you fan mail?

He's nothing more than furious invective:  look at me, look at me, pay attention to me!  Waaaaaah!

[NowhereInTime]

Hey nitwit, you fucking queer, why don't you do society a favor and stand in the middle of a busy intersection somewhere, and blow the feces out of your skull with a .45 in broad daylight?

It would be an act of patriotism, and would restore your mother and father's reputation in the community.

I've noticed you only post sporadically and very briefly, instead of your bloviation of yore, so I am assuming part of your sentence prohibits you from accessing the internet.  12 year olds can breathe a little easier.
You must be using your Probation officer's computer while he/she is out of the room. Naughty, naughty, Qunt Karl...

[Yorkshire pud]

He's nothing more than furious invective:  look at me, look at me, pay attention to me!  Waaaaaah!

He also tends to use the implication of being gay as an insult. As Ben (where is that bloke?) said, he'd go to toe to toe with him (Qunt) and I offered to sell tickets. It would be 'interesting' I'm sure.

[Quick Karl]

Pud, stop sucking dick and write something coherent, if you can think anything up.

[West of the Rockies]

^^^ This is one of yours, SciFi.  Please note the quality of the rhetoric and tone.  Next time you think about chastising a lib here, just be aware that shit flows east and west.  (It takes two to tango.)

[Jackstar]

if

I agree with what you said right there.

[West of the Rockies]

Saw this info online... Intriguing:  President Obama would need 15 Benghazi’s to tie the number of dead US Embassy and Consulate personnel under George W. Bush.
Bush â€" 60.
Obama â€" 4.