Behave, slave, or your government will kill you, your wife, and your children.

[MV/Liberace!]

The story of the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas is one of the wholesale extermination of innocent human life by a government that invades other nations for the purpose of "spreading freedom and democracy."  I think everybody needs to know exactly what happened in Waco that day, and I'd like to make a video recommendation.  It's Waco: The Rules of Engagement. 

This is one of the most depressing historical records I've seen in recent memory.  I always knew Waco was an attack on American liberty and personal freedom, but I never knew the extent to which our own government went in the course of keeping "order" in Waco.  The federal government's Waco siege was simply tragic, both in terms of the loss of life, and in terms of what it represented:  the loss of our republic as constituted by generations of American thinkers, soldiers, philosophers, and leaders. 

As Americans, if we are going to expose the slaughter of innocent human life elsewhere by the tyrants and thugs of this world, then we must also be willing and prepared to study and expose government sanctioned murder when it occurs here on our own soil.  Failure to do so erodes and undermines the continued existence of our basic human rights as Americans.  Individual freedom, liberty, and a limited, decentralized government can not continue to exist if we don't protect what was entrusted to us.  We must expose murder regardless of the political party in power, and regardless of who leads that party.

Those who oppose the right of American citizens to own guns should take note of what this documentary illustrates.  Waco is precisely why our Constitution provides us that right.  Forget your political party affiliations or who you don't listen to on the radio or what cable news outlet you don't like to watch.  The Constitution's assertion of our right to own guns is unambiguous.  But for a few lawyers and self-serving politicians who simply don't like the Second Amendment, it's not a point of debate.  The right to arm yourself can not and should not be abridged just to accommodate a cultural climate or societal whim.  Government is an inherently evil force upon the lives of those who live under it.  Ours is no different.  A citizenry must never be left without the ability to dismantle an oppressive government that abuses and subjugates its citizens.  Human oppression has happened in many places and at many times throughout history, and it will unquestionably happen again.  Will we be prepared to stop it when it happens?  Or will we conveniently disarm ourselves and play the odds?  If you are in favor of the disarmament of the American citizen, then disarm yourself.  Just don't ask me to join your suicide club.  No government should be allowed to sleep comfortably at night knowing such an abridgment of basic human freedom has been allowed to occur.

You are not free, slave.  Shut up, go back to your $8 per hour service sector job, and keep consuming alcohol.  By the way, don't be smoking pot, because that might actually cause you to engage in critical thought on levels the government would rather you steer clear of.  Remember:  pot will kill you.  Remember:  pot is a gateway drug.  Remember:  pot funds terrorism.  Remember:  to have fun, you must drink Budweiser and become a loud, inarticulate, obnoxious, brain damaged tool of the state.  Beautiful women will love you for it.  After all, you've seen the beer commercials, right? 

Now, back on topic...

These poor people in Waco were simply trapped and then butchered like cattle.  I hate to think there are people who have no idea what happened in Waco, Texas.  Please watch the documentary I've embedded below.  God bless America.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4298137966377572665#


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1755692679103175934#

[Aletheum]

What makes it worse is, whether by accident or no, all the ATF agents that got shot and killed (from behind by "friendly fire" BTW) except one were, at one time or another, part of the personal security team for the Clintons.

[fabucat]

David Koresh had a crap load of guns and that didn't save him from government oppression. 

There are many good reasons for gun ownership, but using them to fight against the government isn't one of them. 

I can't tell you how I know all of this stuff, as I was peripherally involved in the investigations of Ruby Ridge and to a much lesser extent, Waco, but the ATF screwed up big time here.  The ATF could've arrested Koresh when he made an excursion into town.  The FBI was left with the task of cleaning up the mess.  They too screwed up.

Also to blame was David Koresh, who essentially signed a death warrant for himself and many other people by refusing to surrender. 

Nowadays the FBI has people in its ranks who are familiar with how to deal with religious extremists.  At the time of the Waco disaster, the FBI was great with dealing with secular criminals and psychopaths, but not religious criminals and psychopaths.

[MV/Liberace!]

What makes it worse is, whether by accident or no, all the ATF agents that got shot and killed (from behind by "friendly fire" BTW) except one were, at one time or another, part of the personal security team for the Clintons.

wow!  i have never heard this before.  are you sure it's true?  it's very hard to believe.

[onan]

As Americans, if we are going to expose the slaughter of innocent human life elsewhere by the tyrants and thugs of this world, then we must also be willing and prepared to study and expose government sanctioned murder when it occurs here on our own soil.  Failure to do so erodes and undermines the continued existence of our basic human rights as Americans.  Individual freedom, liberty, and a limited, decentralized government can not continue to exist if we don't protect what was entrusted to us.  We must expose murder regardless of the political party in power, and regardless of who leads that party.[/size]

remember Matewan?

it doesnt take much of a search to see USA government thuggery in the US and outside the US. The thing to remember is that it isn't liberal versus conservative but apathy versus gluttony. We in the US have allowed the exploitation of people all over the world. Anytime a foreign nation restricts their resources from us the pattern of criminality is pretty easy to see.

It is a fools dream however to believe the days of rescuing the country from the ne'er-do-wells is possible.

I agree with you that crimes need to be exposed but who are we kidding? The american people dont't give a rats ass; they have their cell phones and microwave pancakes. Don't bother their beautifull minds with atrocities to quote babs bush. As long as we can be lead into hating each other, the masters win. And we have all been picking their cotton for years.

We don't care about justice in this country, we care about what matters: who gave a blow job to whom and it had better not have been two men. Screw me bloody we went to war with Iraq because of 9/11. We tortured people that were in prison. But are we concerned? no because those weren't really people, and they have our oil. We all want justice but so few of us want it enough to do a frikken thing about it. And no, bumper stickers don't count.

Forgive my screed, but I have watched this country belly up to the trough since Viet Nam. We will swallow any lie to go to war.

[Silent]

"Listening to the comedians who comment on political, social, and cultural issues, I notice most of their material reflects an underlying belief that somehow things were better once and that with just a little effort we could set them right again. They're looking for solutions, and rooting for particular results, and I think that necessarily limits the tone and substance of what they say. They're talented and funny people, but they're nothing more than cheerleaders attached to a specific, wished-for outcome. I don't feel so confined. I frankly don't give a fuck how it all turns out in this country - or anywhere else, for that matter."

-George Carlin

I miss the man.   

[Gabor Sweden751110]

I saw on television BEFORE ,  3 TO 5 YERS

That you found the unknown history of U.S. army slaughtered many mortals.

Totally unnecessary to shoot people who did not have weapons. INNOCENT PEOPLE

It was one of 1800's
Newly discovered images to be edited.

I am not surprised that there is, similar situations usa.
Which was kept secret silence

I will not remember if it was the New York
---------

it was not difficult to hide events. disguise for the future

before the computer and basic summary of technical things

U.S. power system has the most developed, culture to hide. for that by bringing it not seem reasonable

----

there is no true democracy government
As reported all of its citizens, what is happening. what power do
No country in the world that manage to be honest with its citizens

where we need to expose the reinforcement,

if voters have the power to the arm to follow orders voters' Not the secrets that may control the power behind the voters back

Wikipedia
Is it best to overbuild democracy to reveal.
------
It has shown that more secrets leads to equally good results. unnecessary war.

That power may be too many opportunities to commit errors, but be put in question.
There for we have problems in the days since the terror war was clearly

---------------

[Gabor Sweden751110]

Sweden has no full right to defense themselves.
Defence's own life,
To be punished.

It is a human right to have defense
If you had to kill to defense itself

It has hidden away the right to protect decisions about your own life. against someone who wants you ila

When people need help. it is difficult to get a real means of power to be represented civil protection

Is not it good to have police authority.

But today's police agencies are unable to live out to protect the innocent

There is much corruption in the U.S. that in Sweden

systems create new systems
It becomes harder it is to live in democratic states,
No one who manage to be honest policy, which benefits the population.

[onan]

"Listening to the comedians who comment on political, social, and cultural issues, I notice most of their material reflects an underlying belief that somehow things were better once and that with just a little effort we could set them right again. They're looking for solutions, and rooting for particular results, and I think that necessarily limits the tone and substance of what they say. They're talented and funny people, but they're nothing more than cheerleaders attached to a specific, wished-for outcome. I don't feel so confined. I frankly don't give a fuck how it all turns out in this country - or anywhere else, for that matter."

-George Carlin

I miss the man.   

Me too. me too.

[MV/Liberace!]

"Listening to the comedians who comment on political, social, and cultural issues, I notice most of their material reflects an underlying belief that somehow things were better once and that with just a little effort we could set them right again. They're looking for solutions, and rooting for particular results, and I think that necessarily limits the tone and substance of what they say. They're talented and funny people, but they're nothing more than cheerleaders attached to a specific, wished-for outcome. I don't feel so confined. I frankly don't give a fuck how it all turns out in this country - or anywhere else, for that matter."

-George Carlin

I miss the man.   

actually, i remember hearing him say this, but i don't remember WHERE i heard it.  do u know?

[Silent]

actually, i remember hearing him say this, but i don't remember WHERE i heard it.  do u know?

It's the intro to his Brain Droppings book.  I didn't want to post the entire thing before but if it's interesting to you here it is.

"For a long time, my stand-up material has drawn from three sources. The first is the English language: words, phrases, sayings, and the way we speak. The second source, as with most comedians, has been what I think of as the "little world," those things we all experience every day: driving, food, pets, relationships, and idle thoughts. The third area is what I call the"big world": war, politics, race, death, and social issues. Without having actually measured, I would say this book reflects the balance very closely. The first two areas will speak for themselves, but concerning the "big world," let me say a few things. I'm happy to tell you there is very little in this world that I believe in. Listening to the comedians who comment on political, social, and cultural issues, I notice most of their material reflects an underlying belief that somehow things were better once and that with just a little effort we could set them right again. They're looking for solutions, and rooting for particular results, and I think that necessarily limits the tone and substance of what they say. They're talented and funny people, but they're nothing more than cheerleaders attached to a specific, wished-for outcome. I don't feel so confined. I frankly don't give a fuck how it all turns out in this country - or anywhere else, for that matter. I think the human game was up a long time ago (when the high priests and traders took over), and now we're just playing out the string. And that is, of course, precisely what I find so amusing: the slow circling of the drain by a once promising species, and the sappy, ever-more-desperate belief in this country that there is actually some sort of "American Dream," which has merely been misplaced. The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you are emotionally detached from it. I have always viewed it from a safe distance, knowing I don't belong; it doesn't include me, and it never has. No matter how you care to define it, I do not identify with the local group. Planet, species, race, nation, state, religion, party, union, club, association, neighborhood, improvement committee; I have no interest in any of it. I love and treasure individuals as I meet them, I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to. So, if you read something in this book that sounds like advocacy of a particular political point of view, please reject the notion. My interest in "issues" is merely to point out how badly we're doing, not to suggest a way we might do better. Don't confuse me with those who cling to hope. I enjoy describing how things are, I have no interest in how they "ought to be." And I certainly have no interest in fixing them. I sincerely believe that if you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem. My motto: Fuck Hope! P.S. Lest you wonder, personally, I am a joyful individual with a long, happy marriage and a close and loving family. My career has turned out better than I ever dreamed, and continues to expand. I am a personal optimist but skeptic about all else. What may sound to some like anger is really nothing more than sympathetic contempt. I view my species with a combination of wonder and pity, and I root for it's destruction. And please don't confuse my point of view with cynicism; the real cynics are the ones who tell you everything's gonna be all right. P.P.S. By the way, if, by chance, you folks do manage to straighten things out and make everything better, I still don't wish to be included."

-George Carlin

Or to hear it from the man himself grab the attached file.  By the way, I wasn't trying to hijack the thread at all.  The original quote was my first thought about the idea that things were once so much better or more moral in this country.  Perhaps Carlin deserves his own thread.

[b_dubb]

there's a great essay about Waco in this book ...

ISBN-13: 978-1-56731-637-7

Waco was wholesale murder by ATF to justify their own existence (budget)

[EvB]

Onan, I am with you!


QUOTE:


it doesnt take much of a search to see USA government thuggery in the US and outside the US. The thing to remember is that it isn't liberal versus conservative but apathy versus gluttony. We in the US have allowed the exploitation of people all over the world. Anytime a foreign nation restricts their resources from us the pattern of criminality is pretty easy to see.

[Ruteger]

The United States government has only as much power over us as We the People GRANT it. We can still vote, march or refuse to pay taxes. The saying is still true that a people receive the government they deserve.

[onan]

The United States government has only as much power over us as We the People GRANT it. We can still vote, march or refuse to pay taxes. The saying is still true that a people receive the government they deserve.

In theory... but we are a people too focused on the short term, don't-let-me-think-too-much mentality. We elect people based on non-issues as opposed to real issues. We are a people that think beliefs are as relevant as facts. And god-a-mighty don't let me reconsider a position. The problem is people object to any taxes going to abortion but our government is going to spend over 721 billion in 2011 on the dept of defense. Cause that is just good sense! 3 billion is being spent on a general electric jet engine that the bush admin didnt want and the obama admin doesnt want. Yeah we grant a lot.

So yeah we do get the government we deserve. And that is a frikken shame.

[b_dubb]

the US Gov't has a standing army and a fuck ton of police who will come and ruin your life if they decide it suits their interest.  see Waco Massacre

[Ruteger]

No, I respectfully disagree. NOT in theory. That is the fail. Look at Tunisia. If enough citizens are willing to march and sacrifice, or even die for their country, I guarantee we could change America. Sadly, I think America is Rome in its decline. The people are lazy and corrupt as well as ignorant. The politicians corrupt.

In theory... but we are a people too focused on the short term, don't-let-me-think-too-much mentality. We elect people based on non-issues as opposed to real issues. We are a people that think beliefs are as relevant as facts. And god-a-mighty don't let me reconsider a position. The problem is people object to any taxes going to abortion but our government is going to spend over 721 billion in 2011 on the dept of defense. Cause that is just good sense! 3 billion is being spent on a general electric jet engine that the bush admin didnt want and the obama admin doesnt want. Yeah we grant a lot.

So yeah we do get the government we deserve. And that is a frikken shame.

[onan]

No, I respectfully disagree. NOT in theory. That is the fail. Look at Tunisia. If enough citizens are willing to march and sacrifice, or even die for their country, I guarantee we could change America. Sadly, I think America is Rome in its decline. The people are lazy and corrupt as well as ignorant. The politicians corrupt.

We may march, if the weather isn't too inclement. Sacrifce? really? do you mean that? As a total we are the least likely to sacrifice anything for any reason. Well we will go shopping to help. Americans get upset if they cant get their regular tv because there is a news flash about possible survivors somewhere... I mean we already got a show called survivor why show us more? Less than half the registered voters show up to vote and when they do it seems like its considered a football game... our side won... yay for us. Americans are too lazy, stupid, greedy, and self-involved to ever really sacrifice. As we have been told before the enemy isnt out there... its us.

[b_dubb]

do you think that other countries hate us because we send our kids to 'fat camp' and can choose to have one of twenty different types of pizzas driven to our doorsteps while whole families in third world countries STARVE? 

every time i see an ad for "Man Vs. Food" i just want to puke

[DoYouThinkItWasAngels]

The American Government is invulnerable to the mass protests like are occurring in Tunisia.

[MV/Liberace!]

The American Government is invulnerable to the mass protests like are occurring in Tunisia.

that certainly is hard for me to believe.  look how long it took for our government to get control of things in iraq.  look how volatile the situation CONTINUES to be in afghanistan, despite the superiority of our technology and the best efforts of our military.  if our government did something so egregious that it caused regular citizens to take up arms against it, i think the government would stand no chance.  keep in mind, the people taking up arms against it would be military members, policemen, firemen, teachers, public works employees, engineers, medical professionals ... basically everyone responsible for paying taxes and keeping the government going.  it's difficult to buy into the idea that ANY government could endure a sustained assault by even a fraction of its people.

[b_dubb]

well if the American people collectively - and i mean EVERYONE - decided to stop paying taxes, mortgages, credit cards, etc ... the people at the top would start collectively soil themselves.  because that is the only thing that keeps the system going.  as confidence in our system wanes we approach a place where people might no longer perceive it in the best interest to keep "playing along" with the confidence game that we know as our "economy".  but things would have to get really bad before something like this would even be possible on a mass scale

current status = kind of shitty

[MV/Liberace!]

current status = kind of shitty

agreed.

[The General]

well if the American people collectively - and i mean EVERYONE - decided to stop paying taxes, mortgages, credit cards, etc ... the people at the top would start collectively soil themselves.  because that is the only thing that keeps the system going.  as confidence in our system wanes we approach a place where people might no longer perceive it in the best interest to keep "playing along" with the confidence game that we know as our "economy".  but things would have to get really bad before something like this would even be possible on a mass scale

current status = kind of shitty

As long as people's bellies are full here in America, everyone will continue playing along. 
75% taxation?  Ok, pass the fried chicken.

[anagrammy]

Well, well, history unfolds and reveals an American government out of touch, rather than pulling strings.

A wisp of hope, in my view.  I'm encouraged that Tunesia inspired Egypt and thereby the dominoes are trembling in the rest of the mddle east.  America's ability to "stabilize the region" through imposition of our will is now in question AND I FOR ONE AM DELIGHTED.

America says it wants democracy for all nations in the world, and we are so dedicated that we will impose it by force, as long as the free will of the indigenous agree with out choice.  As Condaleeza Rice put it so eloquently, "The problem is that sometimes the people choose someone we don't like."  Yeah, like Hezbollah.

I see the Egyptian people breaking free of America.  Good for them !  Maybe we could get rid of our corrupt government once people realize the two parties are but "two wings of the same predatory bird."

Anagrammy

[b_dubb]

egypt and others ... could go from bad to worse

[anagrammy]

True, Egypt could go from bad to worse, but at least it would be their worse instead of some meddling outside interest with a fake agenda of democracy for everyone. 

Our true agenda is to control other nations' futures because our hubris tells us it's in our interest (and that's all the reason we need).  Do we really think the people who invented chess can't govern themselves without our interference?

We were caught on camera on this one.

Anagrammy

[b_dubb]

well the military is in 'control' now and that doesn't end well for the people. usually

[MV/Liberace!]

Do we really think the people who invented chess can't govern themselves without our interference?

haha

[DoYouThinkItWasAngels]

well if the American people collectively - and i mean EVERYONE - decided to stop paying taxes, mortgages, credit cards, etc ... the people at the top would start collectively soil themselves.

Yes, but that's like suggesting that all Americans could convert to Islam next week.  Yes, it is physically true, but it's not going to happen.

The American establishment (the top x% of the society?) has sufficient ideological control over the other majority such that it will never get to the point of Tunisia or Egypt.  Deep Check. Our establishment is so infinitely powerful, that it's an amusing hobby to come up with the handful of examples when it's been successfully defied to its face.