Author Topic: Stupid v. Criminal  (Read 102 times)

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Stupid v. Criminal
« on: August 10, 2019, 08:47:27 AM »
BBC News - Missouri Walmart panic caused by armed man testing gun rights
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49303879


While this was incredibly stupid, how is it "terrorism?"  Assuming Missouri has open carry and he did not overtly threaten or point a gun at anyone, where is the criminal act?  YouTube is, or at least was, full of videos of idiots open carrying trying to provoke police.  Equally stupid, but again not against the law.



Re: Stupid v. Criminal
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2019, 11:30:34 AM »
BBC News - Missouri Walmart panic caused by armed man testing gun rights
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49303879


While this was incredibly stupid, how is it "terrorism?"  Assuming Missouri has open carry and he did not overtly threaten or point a gun at anyone, where is the criminal act?  YouTube is, or at least was, full of videos of idiots open carrying trying to provoke police.  Equally stupid, but again not against the law.
I don't know Missouri laws but maybe it would be criminal if Wal-Mart had posted "no carrying of weapons" and it is private property? I know some States allow open-carry, concealed carry, but also have laws in which some places are verboten, usually churches, schools, bars, but also allow private property owners, stores, etc can post if they don't want customers to carry there. 

Certainly even if legal a stupid thing and not following the spirit of the law or just common-sense.

Re: Stupid v. Criminal
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2019, 12:55:58 PM »
I don't know Missouri laws but maybe it would be criminal if Wal-Mart had posted "no carrying of weapons" and it is private property? I know some States allow open-carry, concealed carry, but also have laws in which some places are verboten, usually churches, schools, bars, but also allow private property owners, stores, etc can post if they don't want customers to carry there. 

Certainly even if legal a stupid thing and not following the spirit of the law or just common-sense.

Walmart does not post as a matter of corporate policy, so it's doubtful an individual manager in Bumfuck, MO would take it upon himself to buck corporate policy.  Even if the store was posted, in all but a few states (usual suspects....CA, NY, NJ, Mass, etc) posting of a business does not carry the force of law.  So if you enter such a business while carrying, all they can do is tell you to leave.  If you do not leave, they can call the police who can arrest you if you do not leave at that point as you will be refusing a lawful order of an officer.


Re: Stupid v. Criminal
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2019, 01:45:39 PM »
BBC News - Missouri Walmart panic caused by armed man testing gun rights
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49303879


While this was incredibly stupid, how is it "terrorism?"  Assuming Missouri has open carry and he did not overtly threaten or point a gun at anyone, where is the criminal act?  YouTube is, or at least was, full of videos of idiots open carrying trying to provoke police.  Equally stupid, but again not against the law.

I'm a staunch supporter of the right to bear arms but in today's world his actions amount to yelling fire in a crowded theater.   If I saw someone enter my local Walmart carrying a rifle slung in the "ready to rock and roll position" as he did it would definitely trigger my fight or flee instinct with who knows what result.  Is it a case of simple stupidity or does he have the intellectual wherewithal to understand the possible ramifications of his actions?  If the latter proves true and a political or ideological motive can be established, the case can be made that it was a terroristic act.  The outcome is properly decided by a judge and jury. 


Re: Stupid v. Criminal
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2019, 02:56:42 PM »
I'm a staunch supporter of the right to bear arms but in today's world his actions amount to yelling fire in a crowded theater.   If I saw someone enter my local Walmart carrying a rifle slung in the "ready to rock and roll position" as he did it would definitely trigger my fight or flee instinct with who knows what result.  Is it a case of simple stupidity or does he have the intellectual wherewithal to understand the possible ramifications of his actions?  If the latter proves true and a political or ideological motive can be established, the case can be made that it was a terroristic act.  The outcome is properly decided by a judge and jury.

Which is why I mentioned the idiots who try to provoke police with open carry.  (See compilation video below.)  While I think these guys, and the idiot in Missouri, are legally within their rights to open carry, the question of intent has to be considered.  Making a statement or trying to scare the shit out of people?  If the police and prosecutors think it's the latter, then they have a duty to arrest and prosecute.  That said, the burden of proof on the part of prosecution to prove the guy was trying to terrorize the locals would seem to be an uphill battle. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in this jury room, assuming it goes to trial.