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Insurance Companies and End of Life
« on: February 03, 2019, 03:09:31 AM »
The law says assisted suicide is illegal here, but Big Pharma administers old people gabapentin for pain and it has suicidal side effects.  Then they get you to sign an advance directive which is basically a let-me-die order.

Then they start pumping morphine into you and it weakens you.  Meanwhile, your gabapentin is stopped and your suicidal feelings lift.  You ask for food but none is given (only Jello, for "comfort").  You ask for orange juice, but none is given because it's not in the plan.  You start to do your physical therapy exercises, but you had a stroke and speech is difficult for you.  Communication suffers because no one is trained to ask you simple yes-or-no questions and wait the several moments it takes for you to nod or shake your head.  Someone notices signs of life in you, like your wanting to eat and do your physical therapy, so they makes requests for you.  The request is denied because you signed that you wanted to die.  You weaken from lack of nutrition and too much morphine.  Someone who thinks they are helpful administers too much morphine before it's really time.  No one cares about it.  You die.

So, we don't have assisted suicide.  But, we have covert murder???  Insurance companies benefit from early deaths.  Is it our country's paradigm to get people on gabapentin to sign suicidal orders and then just start a death process?
 
Lots of mixed feelings this week.  This isn't how it's supposed to be.
1.   Gabapentin should be prohibited within a month of signing an advanced directive to die.
2.   When a patient has a stroke but no fatal condition, and wants to die, counseling should be mandatory.  The stroke loss of an arm or side of the body is a serious loss and counseling should be mandatory before end-of-life legal processes begin.
3.   When a hospice patient asks for food or orange juice, there should be a law that they get those items.  Dying or not.
4.   When a hospice patient suddenly begins doing their physical therapy (and not just to stop "bed-ache"), there should be a law that this indicates a willingness to live and so the advanced directive should need to be re-visited.
5.   When morphine is given to a hospice patient, strict supervision should occur, because some helpers over-do it to hasten death, especially if they have heard that the patient wants to die.  The syringes are counted, but the remainder in the bottles is not.  A rogue helper could fill empty syringes to give multiple doses in misguided attempt to be helpful.  Maybe the insurance companies expect them to - that could be why the remainder in bottles is not documented.

Gabapentin, Food, Excerise, Morphine and Advance Death Directives
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2019, 03:23:20 AM »
The law says assisted suicide is illegal here, but Big Pharma administers old people gabapentin for pain and it has suicidal side effects.  Then they get you to sign an advance directive which is basically a let-me-die order.

Then they start pumping morphine into you and it weakens you.  Meanwhile, your gabapentin is stopped and your suicidal feelings lift.  You ask for food but none is given (only Jello, for "comfort").  You ask for orange juice, but none is given because it's not in the plan.  You start to do your physical therapy exercises, but you had a stroke and speech is difficult for you.  Communication suffers because no one is trained to ask you simple yes-or-no questions and wait the several moments it takes for you to nod or shake your head.  Someone notices signs of life in you, like your wanting to eat and do your physical therapy, so they makes requests for you.  The request is denied because you signed that you wanted to die.  You weaken from lack of nutrition and too much morphine.  Someone who thinks they are helpful administers too much morphine before it's really time.  No one cares about it.  You die.

So, we don't have assisted suicide.  But, we have covert murder???  Insurance companies benefit from early deaths.  Is it our country's paradigm to get people on gabapentin to sign suicidal orders and then just start a death process?
 
Lots of mixed feelings this week.  This isn't how it's supposed to be. 

1.   Gabapentin should be prohibited within a month of signing an advanced directive to die.
2.   When a hospice patient asks for food or orange juice, there should be a law that they get those items.  Dying or not.
3.   When a hospice patient suddenly begins doing their physical therapy (and not just to stop "bed-ache"), there should be a law that this indicates a willingness to live and so the advanced directive should need to be re-visited.
4.   When morphine is given to a hospice patient, strict supervision should occur, because some helpers over-do it to hasten death, especially if they have heard that the patient wants to die.  The syringes are counted, but the remainder in the bottles is not.  A rogue helper could fill empty syringes to give multiple doses in misguided attempt to be helpful.  Maybe the insurance companies expect them too - that could be why the remainder in bottles is not documented.

I know you have a good heart, 14.  And Bless You for wanting " graduation" to occur in the best way possible.
Yes.  I'm at that stage in life when I have the right to consider all the alternatives. 
I mean this kindly.  If you are not as advanced as "we" are, please wait until you are.
You have a good heart, 14.  Keep up the good work.  ;) :-*

Gabapentin, Food, Excerise, Morphine and Advance Death Directives
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2019, 04:23:32 AM »
I know you have a good heart, 14.  And Bless You for wanting " graduation" to occur in the best way possible.
Yes.  I'm at that stage in life when I have the right to consider all the alternatives. 
I mean this kindly.  If you are not as advanced as "we" are, please wait until you are.
You have a good heart, 14.  Keep up the good work.  ;) :-*

Thanks, that's nice to hear.  I do have a good heart, and I hope I do because no one directly supervises care givers.  We are out there on our own, with only three days' training and no certification, and very little is well documented and nearly nothing is verified.  I wish so much that I had reported coworker drug use a couple weeks ago.  But, the patient was a stoner too and I just didn't see any harm.  Plus, the patient absolutely loved the drug using care giver.  She was her fav.  They were very, very close.  Plus, the care giver has what seems to be a very good reason for smoking pot (although it smelled like more than just pot).

But I realize now if I had reported it, that the patient might have lived longer, at a time when she was asking for food and starting to exercise in bed.  I guess when I smelled drugs on my coworker, I was like a deer in the head lights.  But now I realize the company probably would have come out right away with a saliva drug test if I had only called them on the spot.  Sigh - I just hadn't realized at the time that I should report her.  Plus with the patient being a stoner it didn't seem to matter.  But, if I had known the care giver was going to start so much morphine so soon, right after that, I would have reported her drug use so they would have let her go.

She was so enmeshed with the patient's prior suicidal desires (during gabapentin), that this care giver failed to see the signs of improvement in the patient after gabapentin.  Asking for food, wanting to exercise, smiling more - not being suicidal at all.  But the care giver is a drama queen and she and the patient had a prior suicide-type pact and this care giver wanted to fulfill all the drama.

Anyhow, company care givers come and go, random care givers - - at a time in life when patients might be better off with consistent staff and consistent shifts.

I don't like the current paradigm at all.  I've read about homeopathic hospice, sounds much better to me.  I would prefer not to die doped up, but I don't want to be in pain.  I already have two signs of dementia, although they are very subtle.  They only affect my my hand-written words and numbers so far.   However, there are many other debilitations that will probably do me in long before dementia has a chance to progress.

I just want everyone to know that you don't have to sign any advance directive  (death orders) to enter hospice.  Advance directives are entirely optional.  And, people can also come out of hospice and improve.  There is no limit on how many times a person can enter or leave hospice, although every few months a re-certification has to be signed.  Most people in hospice have a fatal condition and are expected to die within 6 months.  Very few refuse to eat, but if they intend to starve themselves, they should make their doctor aware of their right to change their mind.  Staff should be instructed to watch for signs of change and act accordingly.

I wanted to go to the store and get the lady food the day she asked for some, but this favored care giver (my lead) told me no money was in the house.  I found out later she had lied; the client actually did have a prepaid card available for groceries.  I guess she was sticking to the patients pact about starving to herself.  The patient did adore her without any variance at all.  But, it just didn't seem healthy to me.  It was like the patient might be changing her mind and improving but her favorite care giver was rigid about prior arrangements.


Gabapentin, Food, Excerise, Morphine and Advance Death Directives
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2019, 04:47:28 AM »
Thanks, that's nice to hear.  I do have a good heart, and I hope I do because no one directly supervises care givers.  We are out there on our own, with only three days' training and no certification, and very little is well documented and nearly nothing is verified.  I wish so much that I had reported coworker drug use a couple weeks ago.  But, the patient was a stoner too and I just didn't see any harm.  Plus, the patient absolutely loved the drug using care giver.  She was her fav.  They were very, very close.  Plus, the care giver has what seems to be a very good reason for smoking pot (although it smelled like more than just pot).

But I realize now if I had reported it, that the patient might have lived longer, at a time when she was asking for food and starting to exercise in bed.  I guess when I smelled drugs on my coworker, I was like a deer in the head lights.  But now I realize the company probably would have come out right away with a saliva drug test if I had only called them on the spot.  Sigh - I just hadn't realized at the time that I should report her.  Plus with the patient being a stoner it didn't seem to matter.  But, if I had known the care giver was going to start so much morphine so soon, right after that, I would have reported her drug use so they would have let her go.

She was so enmeshed with the patient's prior suicidal desires (during gabapentin), that this care giver failed to see the signs of improvement in the patient after gabapentin.  Asking for food, wanting to exercise, smiling more - not being suicidal at all.  But the care giver is a drama queen and she and the patient had a prior suicide-type pact and this care giver wanted to fulfill all the drama.

Anyhow, company care givers come and go, random care givers - - at a time in life when patients might be better off with consistent staff and consistent shifts.

I don't like the current paradigm at all.  I've read about homeopathic hospice, sounds much better to me.  I would prefer not to die doped up, but I don't want to be in pain.  I already have two signs of dementia, although they are very subtle.  They only affect my my hand-written words and numbers so far.   However, there are many other debilitations that will probably do me in long before dementia has a chance to progress.

I just want everyone to know that you don't have to sign any advance directive  (death orders) to enter hospice.  Advance directives are entirely optional.  And, people can also come out of hospice and improve.  There is no limit on how many times a person can enter or leave hospice, although every few months a re-certification has to be signed.  Most people in hospice have a fatal condition and are expected to die within 6 months.  Very few refuse to eat, but if they intend to starve themselves, they should make their doctor aware of their right to change their mind.  Staff should be instructed to watch for signs of change and act accordingly.

I wanted to go to the store and get the lady food the day she asked for some, but this favored care giver (my lead) told me no money was in the house.  I found out later she had lied; the client actually did have a prepaid card available for groceries.  I guess she was sticking to the patients pact about starving to herself.  The patient did adore her without any variance at all.  But, it just didn't seem healthy to me.  It was like the patient might be changing her mind and improving but her favorite care giver was rigid about prior arrangements.

You have a professional insight to care giving that I was totally unaware of.  Thank you for the heads-up, 14.  I will be much more aware!


Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2019, 12:58:38 PM »
 :-*  I'm no spring chick!  It's weird how you spend the first half of your life trying to get some experience behind you and feeling fat too, then you spend the last half wondering where all your collagen curves went (it wasn't "fat" after all) and feeling things went by too quickly.

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2019, 06:23:20 PM »
:-*  I'm no spring chick!  It's weird how you spend the first half of your life trying to get some experience behind you and feeling fat too, then you spend the last half wondering where all your collagen curves went (it wasn't "fat" after all) and feeling things went by too quickly.

Be honest. Youíre Sofia on Ellgab, arenít you? :)

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 07:47:03 PM »
The law says assisted suicide is illegal here, but Big Pharma administers old people gabapentin for pain and it has suicidal side effects. 

Wait wait Imma let you finish, but gabapentin had one of the greatest benefits OF ALL TIME.

I have nerve damage and the attending pain.  I was first prescribed pregabalin, which could be broadly described as a high octane version of gabapentin. 

The problem for me is that pregabalin requires a doctorís visit every prescription, every 30 days that is.  And one reason is to see if pregabalin has taken you down that foresaken path towards suicidal thoughts.  However that protocal does not suit me very well as i only alight in the usa once every six months.  I can get pregabalin in the Philippines without too much bother, but the branded version (what i get in the usa) is expensive (meds are not covered under any health plan in thd Phils), and the generic version is inconsistent in effect.  Gabapentin, by contrast, is scheduled lower on the risk chart, and the people who impersonate me in the usa can stockpile it for me when i return.

As far as side effects go, both drugs have been nothing but a blessing for me.  I can function normally, even better because of the anti-anxiety effect that they have.  Ive never had even the slighest depressive or suicidal episode with either.  Since both drugs suppress epileptic episodes, i can worry less than ever about having one.

I dont know why a doctor would prescribe gabapentin to elders on their way to the boneyard unless they are suffering some pain due to nerve damage.  You imply that suicidal thoughts are an inevitable side effect of the use of gabapentin.  Thatís wrong.  Some people, a small minority, experience that side effect, but if prescribed as required and if the patient uses it as directed, the risk is very small.  If you are suggesting that doctors are prescribing gabapentin to elders in nursing homes to push them into the grave, well, thatís just paranoid nonsense, not to mention irresponsible.

Have you ever taken gabapentin, or pregabalin?

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 09:09:19 PM »
Have you ever taken gabapentin, or pregabalin?
I took gabapentin for post-herpetic neuropathy in 2012.  However, it was only 300 mg/day, & had I continued w the neurologist we might've increased the dose.  However, my problem was only occasionally lancinating pain, & primarily numbness, paresthesias, & weakness, which it was doubtful the gabapentin would help.  So I discontinued it soon.

The neuropathy slowly improved but never went away.  Last yr. apparently due to anti-inflammatory tx for parainfluenza B, the shingles reactivated, bringing the numbness & weakness back fully, but no pain.

Unadvertised feature of herpes zoster: it can affect motor neurons, not just afferents.  Enough in my case to produce some muscle atrophy.

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2019, 10:30:19 PM »
I took gabapentin for post-herpetic neuropathy in 2012.  However, it was only 300 mg/day, & had I continued w the neurologist we might've increased the dose.  However, my problem was only occasionally lancinating pain, & primarily numbness, paresthesias, & weakness, which it was doubtful the gabapentin would help.  So I discontinued it soon.

The neuropathy slowly improved but never went away.  Last yr. apparently due to anti-inflammatory tx for parainfluenza B, the shingles reactivated, bringing the numbness & weakness back fully, but no pain.

Unadvertised feature of herpes zoster: it can affect motor neurons, not just afferents.  Enough in my case to produce some muscle atrophy.

Thats fucked up, fam.  Hope that you win that muscle trophy, you deserve it.

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 02:18:51 AM »
Be honest. Youíre Sofia on Ellgab, arenít you? :)
You've been on the turnip truck too long if you just figured that out.

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 02:34:56 AM »
Wait wait Imma let you finish, but gabapentin had one of the greatest benefits OF ALL TIME.

I have nerve damage and the attending pain.  I was first prescribed pregabalin, which could be broadly described as a high octane version of gabapentin. 

The problem for me is that pregabalin requires a doctorís visit every prescription, every 30 days that is.  And one reason is to see if pregabalin has taken you down that foresaken path towards suicidal thoughts.  However that protocal does not suit me very well as i only alight in the usa once every six months.  I can get pregabalin in the Philippines without too much bother, but the branded version (what i get in the usa) is expensive (meds are not covered under any health plan in thd Phils), and the generic version is inconsistent in effect.  Gabapentin, by contrast, is scheduled lower on the risk chart, and the people who impersonate me in the usa can stockpile it for me when i return.

As far as side effects go, both drugs have been nothing but a blessing for me.  I can function normally, even better because of the anti-anxiety effect that they have.  Ive never had even the slighest depressive or suicidal episode with either.  Since both drugs suppress epileptic episodes, i can worry less than ever about having one.

I dont know why a doctor would prescribe gabapentin to elders on their way to the boneyard unless they are suffering some pain due to nerve damage.  You imply that suicidal thoughts are an inevitable side effect of the use of gabapentin.  Thatís wrong.  Some people, a small minority, experience that side effect, but if prescribed as required and if the patient uses it as directed, the risk is very small.  If you are suggesting that doctors are prescribing gabapentin to elders in nursing homes to push them into the grave, well, thatís just paranoid nonsense, not to mention irresponsible.

Have you ever taken gabapentin, or pregabalin?
I haven't take either.  I use homeopathic Hypercurium.  But I'm glad it works for you and sorry for the inconvenience you face.  Yes I was suggesting that because that is what I saw.  But, from what you say, it could have been an anomaly.  But if even one person is morphined to death bec of a gabapentin influenced death wish...  Maybe instead of checking for suicidal thoughts every month, they could just prohibit advance directives (which are optional) and hospice when death is not imminent, within 30 days of taking gabapentin.  Like if a gabapentin client decided to do an advance directive, they could take an alternative pain killer for 30 days prior to signing it?  Leaving people like you free to do as you like each month.

I do maintain that my acquaintance was a victim of gabapentin-induced suicidal thoughts, which began to lift when it was removed during hospice.  Yet, no one noticed or cared.  She had signed off on dying and dying is what she was going to get regardless of the fact that it is perfectly okay to come out of hospice and later re-enter it if necessary.  The person who went gung ho with the morphine killed her according to her written wishes to starve herself to death, failing to notice the patient starting to exercise and ask for food.  This particular patient did not have a fatal condition, but merely wanted to starve herself, initially unhappy with grief and loss after a stroke.

When someone has a stroke and loses function of a limb, they need counseling to help them with their loss grief and their fears.  But no one recommends it.  If this woman had had counseling, she could have overcome her grief and learned to live with one hand.  Her major reason for wanting to die was that she had been a perfectionist in life and she couldn't be a perfectionist anymore bec she only could use one hand after the stroke.

Assisted suicide is illegal here, but the administration of constant morphine is a total loophole.  I feel angry about these things, but the actual person involved was one of the worst people I've ever met.  Kind of takes the sting out of my frustration.




Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 02:57:52 AM »
I haven't take either.  I use homeopathic Hypercurium.  But I'm glad it works for you and sorry for the inconvenience you face.




Code: [Select]
IT'S CALLED SPEED STICK
IT'S NOT EXPENSIVE

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 03:18:46 AM »
I haven't take either.  I use homeopathic Hypercurium.  But I'm glad it works for you and sorry for the inconvenience you face.  Yes I was suggesting that because that is what I saw.  But, from what you say, it could have been an anomaly.  But if even one person is morphined to death bec of a gabapentin influenced death wish...  Maybe instead of checking for suicidal thoughts every month, they could just prohibit advance directives (which are optional) and hospice when death is not imminent, within 30 days of taking gabapentin.  Like if a gabapentin client decided to do an advance directive, they could take an alternative pain killer for 30 days prior to signing it?  Leaving people like you free to do as you like each month.

I do maintain that my acquaintance was a victim of gabapentin-induced suicidal thoughts, which began to lift when it was removed during hospice.  Yet, no one noticed or cared.  She had signed off on dying and dying is what she was going to get regardless of the fact that it is perfectly okay to come out of hospice and later re-enter it if necessary.  The person who went gung ho with the morphine killed her according to her written wishes to starve herself to death, failing to notice the patient starting to exercise and ask for food.  This particular patient did not have a fatal condition, but merely wanted to starve herself, initially unhappy with grief and loss after a stroke.

When someone has a stroke and loses function of a limb, they need counseling to help them with their loss grief and their fears.  But no one recommends it.  If this woman had had counseling, she could have overcome her grief and learned to live with one hand.  Her major reason for wanting to die was that she had been a perfectionist in life and she couldn't be a perfectionist anymore bec she only could use one hand after the stroke.

Assisted suicide is illegal here, but the administration of constant morphine is a total loophole.  I feel angry about these things, but the actual person involved was one of the worst people I've ever met.  Kind of takes the sting out of my frustration.

What you are describing is a complicated situation that involves several different considerations.  You seem to understand it and are on the right track.  I just wanted to get it out there that gabapentin is not a dangerous drug and not a certain path to suicidal thoughts, which was not clear from your original post.  It was an anomaly, perhaps exacerbated by drug interaction and indifferent oversight.

"Worst person" you ever met.  Damn, talk about conflicted thoughts.  Glad that you are you and I'm not you.

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 03:20:32 AM »



Code: [Select]
IT'S CALLED SPEED STICK
IT'S NOT EXPENSIVE

Dude, if it was, would you be chugging it nightly rather than Thunderbird or MD20? 

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 11:57:51 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/02/05/vape-pen-kills-man-after-exploding-his-mouth/?utm_term=.430610145098

Quote
There were blood splatters and pen fragments around the car. ďIt looked like someone had shot him,Ē she said.

The Brown family huddled together at John Peter Smith Hospital after Williamís arrival. Doctors told them he needed surgery after discovering that a piece of the e-cigarette had traveled through his mouth and lodged in his neck.

But surgery would have to wait for a day or maybe even two, Alice and Steve Brown said they were told by doctors. There was no sense of urgency, the father said.

Around 4 a.m. the next day, hospital staff found William face down on the floor after a stroke, Steve Brown said he was told in a phone call. But his family struggled to find him upon arrival and later learned that he had been sent to intensive care.

William Brown died the next day, his family said.

Quote
William was an organ donor

Obvious sanctioned harvest is obvious.



would you be chugging it nightly

I typically find that under the tongue is ideal--but I've met lots of people who swear by its efficacy when ingested via the rectum. That would probably be right up your alley.

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2019, 12:13:30 AM »
right up your alley.

Har har I get it.

So, you stick medicine for dogs under your tongue?  Why not hide it in a piece of hamburger?


Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2019, 01:48:19 AM »
Hi FBI.

Consider the fact that you are still alive as confirmation that you haven't got it right.   Yet.

You're 45 and still living in your parent's garage...better step on it, Maroney.  Daylight's burning.

https://youtu.be/wL9TemWsrKs?t=1811

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2019, 01:53:40 AM »
You're 45 and still living in your parent's garage...better step on it, Maroney.



Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2019, 09:41:10 PM »
I took gabapentin for post-herpetic neuropathy in 2012.  However, it was only 300 mg/day, & had I continued w the neurologist we might've increased the dose.  However, my problem was only occasionally lancinating pain, & primarily numbness, paresthesias, & weakness, which it was doubtful the gabapentin would help.  So I discontinued it soon.

The neuropathy slowly improved but never went away.  Last yr. apparently due to anti-inflammatory tx for parainfluenza B, the shingles reactivated, bringing the numbness & weakness back fully, but no pain.

Unadvertised feature of herpes zoster: it can affect motor neurons, not just afferents.  Enough in my case to produce some muscle atrophy.
Bioron makes a little hypercurium (St. John's Wort) homeopathic pills that cures this and is compatible with all prescriptions because it's homeopathic.  I  use it for pins, needles and numbness.  It's subtle but works great when taken as directed (no food, drink, toothpaste, mouthwash, or smoking 10 minutes before and after).

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2019, 09:41:48 PM »



Code: [Select]
IT'S CALLED SPEED STICK
IT'S NOT EXPENSIVE
What are you talking about?

Insurance Companies and End of Life
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2019, 09:44:08 PM »
What you are describing is a complicated situation that involves several different considerations.  You seem to understand it and are on the right track.  I just wanted to get it out there that gabapentin is not a dangerous drug and not a certain path to suicidal thoughts, which was not clear from your original post.  It was an anomaly, perhaps exacerbated by drug interaction and indifferent oversight.

"Worst person" you ever met.  Damn, talk about conflicted thoughts.  Glad that you are you and I'm not you.
It's not an anomoly.  It's a well-documented phenomenon.  That's how I found out.

No, I have not taken it.

I'm glad you didn't suffer that side effect.  Sorry I didn't see your post earlier.

I don't know what you mean by "worst person".  No one, no one in this forum is the "worst person".  Not even Brig.