Author Topic: What is in my Father's notebook?  (Read 1577 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2018, 11:30:09 AM »
Interesting thread.

Yes! very interesting. Much appreciated Walks.

My Father was also in the Navy during WW2. Mighty Midget..close shore support before an island invasion.


Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2018, 12:23:43 PM »
Yes! very interesting. Much appreciated Walks.

My Father was also in the Navy during WW2. Mighty Midget..close shore support before an island invasion.

Then why do you want to destroy the country that he loved and fought for?!

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2018, 12:32:37 PM »
Then why do you want to destroy the country that he loved and fought for?!

Whoa...

Does he really??? :-\


Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2018, 12:37:12 PM »
Whoa...

Does he really??? :-\

Probably. This is White Crow were talking about. ;)


Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2018, 12:38:50 PM »
Probably. This is White Crow were talking about. ;)

Can you point me at the proofs of this? ???

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2018, 12:39:35 PM »
Can you point me at the proofs of this? ???

Nope.

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2018, 12:45:13 PM »
So just a gut level feeling then?

I dunno...that gets us into NPC land I fear... :-X

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2018, 12:48:04 PM »
So just a gut level feeling then?

I dunno...that gets us into NPC land I fear... :-X


Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2018, 01:02:33 PM »
That doesn't mean I think you are wrong, just need some caravan to open borders music for the sound stripe...


Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2018, 01:05:03 PM »
That doesn't mean I think you are wrong, just need some caravan to open borders music for the sound stripe...



In the past I and others have joked about WC being a serial killer. That’s why he wants to send you a hoodie. He just wants your address. We were even going to make a movie about it once before egos got too swelled.  ;)

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2018, 01:10:52 PM »
So maybe he was sanctioning for the Dating Game?

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2018, 06:01:53 PM »
Interesting thread.

Well thanks boss.  Wasn't sure how well this would be received but glad that has been some hits on it.

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2018, 06:02:27 PM »
Yes! very interesting. Much appreciated Walks.

My Father was also in the Navy during WW2. Mighty Midget..close shore support before an island invasion.

Was he at Okinawa?

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2018, 06:03:30 PM »
Wasn't sure how well this would be received

Your Dad was a hero who could do math. Cheers!

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2018, 09:40:17 PM »
Then why do you want to destroy the country that he loved and fought for?!

That sounds like a question Michael with a crazy Y would ask?

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2018, 10:16:12 PM »
Was he at Okinawa?

Yes during the battle of Okinawa they were stationed on the very outer picket ring. The kamikazes were at a very high altitude so they didn't shoot at them.

Same as your Father, he enlisted in the Navy to avoid being drafted into the Army or Marines.

He served on an Amphibious Gunboats that had a flat bottom. LCS (L) landing craft support (large) ship.  They were referred to as Mighty Midgets because they had lots of guns and rockets for their small size. 

They would go in close to shore before an island invasion and drop off Australian Frog men that would deactivate mines.

They would also go in close to shore before the invasions and blast away at Japanese positions with rockets and guns. The Japanese wouldn't return fire because they didn't want to give away their locations before the troops landed.

After the war ended they spent months working with mine sweeper in the South China Sea. The mine sweeper would snag a mine which brought it to the surface and they would machine gun the mines until they exploded.

He commission and decommissioned his LCS (L)
He was the only crew member that was on it from sea trials to scrap storage mooring.


http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/05/05idx.htm

http://www.mightymidgets.org

Re: What is in my Father's notebook? Page 2
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2018, 11:44:41 AM »
Do you have an idea what the hit/miss ratio was for these weapons?

I've not yet been able to find any firm data on Mk XV's launched from Destroyers.   For the Mark XIV launched from
American Submarines it seems to be about 40% if the boat was commanded by a top notch or maniacal skipper (depending on
your view point) like a Mush Morton

Here is a web page that discusses this.  The guy seems to know
what he is talking about but unfortunately it plays music ala 1996 when loaded so turn down the sound.

Re: What is in my Father's notebook? Page 2
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2018, 11:47:49 AM »
I've not yet been able to find any firm data on Mk XV's launched from Destroyers.   For the Mark IV launched from
American Submarines it seems to be about 40% if the boat was commanded by a top notch or maniac (depending on
your view point) like a Mush Morton

Here is a web page that discusses this.  The guy seems to know
what he is talking about but unfortunately the back plays music ala 1996 when loaded so turn down the sound.

Ugh! He should’ve at least kept the music in era. ::)

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2018, 12:13:31 PM »
Your Dad was a hero who could do math. Cheers!

Well thanks.  He would say he was no hero.  On a ship in combat all the choices already made for you, so there is nothing for it but to do your job.

Torpedomen did have help with the math - they used an analog computer called a Torpedo Director that did the calculations. 

It looked like this:


Here was the setup:



And the manual for it: https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/ddfc/index.htm

Of course if it was knocked out then they would be expected to old school it with amounts to a fancy slide rule

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2018, 12:16:43 PM »
Well thanks.  He would say he was no hero.  On a ship in combat all the choices already made for you, so there is nothing for it but to do your job.

Torpedomen did have help with the math - they used an analog computer called a Torpedo Director that did the calculations. 

It looked like this:


Here was the setup:



And the manual for it: https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/ddfc/index.htm

Of course if it was knocked out then they would be expected to old school it with amounts to a fancy slide rule


Yikes! I’m intimidated already.  :o

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2018, 12:17:49 PM »
Yes during the battle of Okinawa they were stationed on the very outer picket ring. The kamikazes were at a very high altitude so they didn't shoot at them.

Same as your Father, he enlisted in the Navy to avoid being drafted into the Army or Marines.

He served on an Amphibious Gunboats that had a flat bottom. LCS (L) landing craft support (large) ship.  They were referred to as Mighty Midgets because they had lots of guns and rockets for their small size. 

They would go in close to shore before an island invasion and drop off Australian Frog men that would deactivate mines.

They would also go in close to shore before the invasions and blast away at Japanese positions with rockets and guns. The Japanese wouldn't return fire because they didn't want to give away their locations before the troops landed.

After the war ended they spent months working with mine sweeper in the South China Sea. The mine sweeper would snag a mine which brought it to the surface and they would machine gun the mines until they exploded.

He commission and decommissioned his LCS (L)
He was the only crew member that was on it from sea trials to scrap storage mooring.


http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/05/05idx.htm

http://www.mightymidgets.org

Okinawa was the last combat my Father saw.   Thank heavens our Dad's made it through that hell! 


Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2018, 12:33:42 PM »
BTW - the guy on the right in this photo of the torpedo director was known in Navy-speak as a Talker



They ran the internal communications between the various stations of the ship and wore a rather clunky looking
headset and microphone setup.


Along with a special helmet to fit over the headphones called a Talkers Helmet  This talker looks rather happy


This talker does not:



If you poke around on the internet you'll find talker's manuals with how things were to be pronounced.  Pre-Television I would
imagine the various regional accents were stronger than now.



Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2018, 12:50:54 PM »
Speaking of Talkers, my Father's favorite war movie was The Enemy Below with Robert Mitchum as the American Destroyer Skipper and Curt Jurgens as the German U-Boat commander.   There is a scene when the Destroyer first goes to battle stations where the various Talkers
report in for there sections as manned and ready.   We would always debate whether the Magazine Talker was an uncredited Clint Eastwood or
a US Navy sailor that sort of resembled Clint.


Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #53 on: October 20, 2018, 12:56:56 PM »
Fascinating to see how much electronic evolution we've had since those days - a headset that almost covered the whole head.

And of course Morse code was mandatory at a breathtaking 40 words per minute or even more!


http://www.arrl.org/news/morse-code-at-140-wpm

During World War II when the military trained Morse code operators, they trained for 16 weeks for about 8 hours a day. But Chuck says, “The U.S. government did it wrong. They used the old E — I — S — H sequence,” which, in Chuck’s opinion, is “…the worst thing you can do. It either consciously or subconsciously gets the individuals counting elements.” He urges anyone learning code that way to “…please, please drop any code course that starts this way or uses some gimmick for memorization…especially visual aids. This is a killer for code speed. Your mind learns to go through a couple of steps before getting the conversion done, and then you later have to unlearn the sequence. The only way to make sure code sticks with you is to “tart with a regular daily schedule and stick with it. It’s the only way to succeed in a reasonable time period.” Chuck prefers the A — B — C — D sequence because “…it fairly well mixes up the patterns so that [you] don’t compare them to [similar letters].” It’s the way we all learned the alphabet in order to read.

What is in my Father's notebook? Page 4
« Reply #54 on: October 20, 2018, 09:06:42 PM »
On the top of page 4 my Father had written his first name with a little design under it.   I've redacted the name as he was no Bob or Tom.
His first name was not weird but it is not particularly common either and I carry it as well.

The top section of page 4 is a table listing Depth Charges, their sections and weights and is printed.  You will notice that there are charges
weighing about 400 pounds and others well over 700 pounds.  The heavier charges would be rolled out of racks off the stern of the ship
while the lighter ones would be shot off the sides of the ship from a mount called a K-Gun.   Torpedomen were responsible for the
Depth Charges as well.  A fleet Destroyer like those my Dad served on would carry 30 depth charges.  Later there would be smaller
Destroyer Escort ships and Frigates that were geared more towards anti-submarine warfare and they would carry more depth charges
at the expense of 5" guns and torpedoes.   The depth charges were not terribly sophisticated.  They could be set to explode at a certain
depth in the water and they just sank until that point was reached.    They could be nasty though - there was an incident ashore at Norfolk where
a depth charge exploded and then set off 23 more.  The result was 40 killed and almost 400 wounded.

They were more of a terror weapon than an outright submarine killer.   From what I have read, there was only a 3% chance of
destroying a sub with one.   If the submarines number was up and it fell inside that 3% range the results were rather horrific. 
Dad's Destroyer was credited with a partial U boat kill from depth charges they dropped in conjunction with another Destroyer
off the coast of the US.   Thread - From what Dad said it is not like the movies.  Oh there is an oil slick for sure and the debris that
are shown in the movies - clothing, mattresses and what not.  However, there are also body parts - arms, legs, lungs and intestines
- a bucket of a German's guts was sure evidence of a confirmed kill. Said bucket might very well be placed in the freezer to
confirm the kill ashore. Enough gore..................

The bottom of page 4 is written in cursive and is a section called "Screws and Nuts and Studs"  and describes how many of the various
fasteners are used in the different sections of the Torpedo.



Page 4


Top of Page 4


Bottom of Page 4



K-Gun launched Depth Charge


Stern Racked Depth Charges


US Destroyer at work

What is in my Father's notebook? Page 5
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2018, 06:31:31 PM »
Page 5 is written in cursive and it looks like Dad was moving fast to take all the information being presented down.   The first paragraph
describes the exercise head of the torpedo and how air is used to force the ballast water out at the end of the practice run.  The second paragraph
discusses the parts that comprise the middle or midship section of the torpedo.  The last paragraph discusses the "Stop & Charge valve" and
Dad had gone over some of the words that were written in pencil with black ink to clarify what was written.

Page 5



Here is a photo of a typical class or section of torpedoman under training at Newport.  No, my Father does not appear in this photo. 
Sadly, I do not have one of his class at the time he was there.  This picture was taken at graduation about a year after my Father's
time there.


What is in my Father's notebook? Page 6
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2018, 08:55:42 PM »
Page 6 is written in cursive using a pencil and the page is broken into 4 sections - labeled 1, 2, 3, 4 but not distinctly so. 
The entirety of the page is about the warhead of the torpedo.    The bottom of the page mentions the infamous Mark 6-1 Exploder
As opposed to the torpedo simply hitting the target and exploding on contact, the idea was the torpedo was supposed to pass
underneath the targeted ship, sense that it had done so and then explode.  The result would be to break the target ships back thus sinking it.  Under great secrecy as in "behind the tightest veil of secrecy the Navy had ever created" the Mark 6 exploder was developed.   Due to budget
constraints during the Depression only two live fire tests were conducted prior to the war starting.  One was successful and one was not.
GE would redesign the exploder but almost no testing was done.  To make things worse, the standard contact pistol on the exploder
did not work either.  This would get fixed in time but much hell needed to be raised with the Naval Bureau of Ordinance before
anything was done.    The following quote from a frustrated submarine Skipper is a classic:
Quote
"[Making] round trips of 8500 miles into enemy waters to gain attack positions undetected within 800 yards of enemy ships only to find that torpedoes run deep and over half the time fail to function, seems to me an undesirable method of gaining information which might be determined any morning within a few miles of a torpedo station in the presence of comparatively few hazards

Page 6


Mark 6-1 Exploder

Re: What is in my Father's notebook? Page 6
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2018, 08:59:20 PM »
Page 6 is written in cursive using a pencil and the pages is broken into 4 sections - labeled 1, 2, 3, 4 but not distinctly so. 
The entirety of the page is about the warhead of the torpedo.    The bottom of the page mentions the infamous Mark 6-1 Exploder
As opposed to the torpedo simply hitting the target and exploding on contact, the idea was the torpedo was supposed to pass
underneath the targeted ship, sense that it had done so and then explode.  The result would be to break the target ships back and sinking it.  Under great secrecy  as in "behind the tightest veil of secrecy the Navy had ever created" the Mark 6 exploder was developed.   Due to budget
constraints during the Depression only two live fire tests were conducted prior to the war starting.  One was successful and one was not.
GE would redesign the exploder but almost no testing was done.  To make things worse, the standard contact pistol on the exploder
did not work either.  This would get fixed in time but much hell needed to be raised with the Naval Bureau of Ordinance before
anything was done.    The following quote from a frustrated submarine Skipper is a classic:
Page 6


Mark 6-1 Exploder


Thyratron?! ???

Looks like a vacuum tube, probably customized in some way.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyratron

What is in my Father's notebook? Page 4 [Correction]
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2018, 09:03:36 PM »
On the page 4 post, the location of the U-Boat that I mentioned is incorrect.  It was not off the coast of the US.

Re: What is in my Father's notebook?
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2018, 09:31:08 PM »
Here is a mechanical drawing of the faulty exploder:




Here is an article that discusses this issue:
Fire One, Fire Ten: Implications of the Torpedo Scandal of World War II
https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2018/02/08/fire_one_fire_ten_implications_of_the_torpedo_scandal_of_world_war_ii_113037.html