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Live Shooters Las Vegas Several Dead at Mandalay Bay

Started by chefist, October 01, 2017, 11:27:34 PM

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: WOTR on October 10, 2017, 03:35:06 AM
Interesting (and telling) that you are happy to take the word of a single man on youtube with absolutely no proof.  I watched the entire video waiting for him to (as Jackstar would say) "show his work".  Waiting to see the software pick it out and analyze the time stamps.  Instead, I get to take his word that there are two different shooters because he put black dots up and wrote ".374 seconds" under one group and ".559 seconds" under the other.

I'm not saying that there could not be another shooter.  I'm simply saying that without knowing his motivations and who he is, I have a difficult time treating his word as gospel. If the NYT or CNN used this proof and simply wrote .559 seconds under BOTH sets of dots as proof that there was only one shooter, you would quickly dismiss it.  Yet one man on the internet tells you that he knows the trooth, and you quickly fall in line.

I think that we can pretty much rule out the Oasis apartments for the second shooter.  Hell, I live in a house and I cannot even shoot my wife in the basement without a pesky neighbour calling the police.  I think the same can go for the gas station (or we have to believe that the attendant was also in on it and they took a hell of a chance with customers.)

The construction dirt pile or sign he mentioned- maybe.  But again, you first have to decide to put all of your trust in one mans word with him NOT showing his actual analysis. If we go by the saying "question everything" it does not mean question mainstream media but believe everything else...

So, if you're challenging his numbers feel free to do some analysis of your own and show your work. Please! Show us what it's all about. No?! That's not what it's about for you, is it?  ???

=Schlyder=

 That video guy is the only one to post any kind of analysis so far. That is more than anyone else.  So let's see what the FBI/CIA/MSM present for acoustic analysis, and then comparisons can be made.  But this guy has done some timezez and gozintas, and has demonstrated his analysis and now others will have to confirm or deny his calculations.  This is what investigating is about.

Swishypants

It's snowing already in Canada isn't it. HERE COMES CRAZY SEASON!!!



WOTR

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on October 10, 2017, 04:18:04 AM
So, if you're challenging his numbers feel free to do some analysis of your own and show your work. Please! Show us what it's all about. No?! That's not what it's about for you, is it?  ???
Perhaps if you are spreading the gospel, you should do a little analysis of your own instead of doing your excellent parrot impersonation...

If he had the proof, why not post it instead of a drawing?  Yes, if it is true it is interesting.  However, writing numbers and saying "you cannot hear it with your ear, but trust me... I did the analysis" is fucking stupid.  And then I'm supposed to waste days of my time to research programs to do the analysis (shocking... He did not even bother to let us know what he used to analyze it... Just that he "ran the numbers")  The only reason you will let him away this this level of obscurity is because he is confirming your already held beliefs.

I'm guessing that is what he is relying on.  Suckers who will not confirm his analysis and just take his word for it.  If he had the proof, why not post it?  Why not actually show people?  Certainly he does not really expect any police agency to knock on his door because he has a whiteboard?  When he claims he wants to "honour the victims" then he ought to actually post the proof that would force people to look at his work instead of dots on a whiteboard, numbers, and the promise that "I used a computer program and know about math and physics."

And how gullible do you have to be to swallow it hook, line and sinker?  BTW- I ran the numbers as well and got .735 and will offer you the same proof as he offered... The word of a somebody on the internet and an audio graph.  BTW- Hoagland measured the time stamps using his accutron...   ;)


Swishypants

5.56x45's effective kill range is 400 meters out of a 20 inch barrel. Heat, elevation and wind are a factor. The practical application of the round is 250 meters in the real world. It will kill at further distances but the rule of thumb for any experienced handler of the round is 250 meters and you try and keep it to 200 if the shot really means anything to you. At 200 meters or less the round is deadly as fuck! There are lots of factors such as barrel length and bullet weight and powder loading, and a bunch of other bullshit but 200 meters is a good rule-of-thumb for all factors.

=Schlyder=



  .223/5.56 ammo has an initial velocity of approx. 3200 fps.   speed of sound is also a known.  1125.33 fps.   over 3 times the speed of sound.

if you have the sound of bullet impacts, and then the report.. you can easily calculate distance from where gun is fired.  It isn't rocket appliances.

Swishypants

Quote from: =Schlyder= on October 10, 2017, 05:19:59 AM

  .223/5.56 ammo has an initial velocity of approx. 3200 fps.   speed of sound is also a known.  1125.33 fps.   over 3 times the speed of sound.

if you have the sound of bullet impacts, and then the report.. you can easily calculate distance from where gun is fired.  It isn't rocket appliances.

A buddy of mine was shot twice with the shit in the Philippines in 1985. Two rounds across his belly from right to left at about 300 meters range through foliage in the heat. He survived. Marine RAIDER. 1st of the 9th. Fighting Islamic Terrorists. Bet no one knew we were fighting them then or that the Raiders still existed then. :)

=Schlyder=

Quote from: Swishypants on October 10, 2017, 05:14:05 AM
5.56x45's effective kill range is 400 meters out of a 20 inch barrel. Heat, elevation and wind are a factor. The practical application of the round is 250 meters in the real world. It will kill at further distances but the rule of thumb for any experienced handler of the round is 250 meters and you try and keep it to 200 if the shot really means anything to you. At 200 meters or less the round is deadly as fuck!

yes.  and they are fast as well.  I have a 5.56 rifle.  a Swiss Arms Black Special (SIG PE90/ Sig 550 (semi only)  so quite familiar with what a 5.56 round will do for ballistics

Swishypants

Quote from: =Schlyder= on October 10, 2017, 05:24:52 AM
yes.  and they are fast as well.  I have a 5.56 rifle.  a Swiss Arms Black Special (SIG PE90/ Sig 550 (semi only)  so quite familiar with what a 5.56 round will do for ballistics

They are a damn good White-tail Deer rifle at 200m or less if you can hunt in open country! The cavitation effect drops them like gang-busters.

=Schlyder=

 250 yrds ... that's 750 ft.. so 750 divided by 3200 =  0.234 seconds  ....for a 5.56 round to travel 250 yards.

Swishypants

Quote from: =Schlyder= on October 10, 2017, 05:29:27 AM
250 yrds ... that's 750 ft.. so 750 divided by 3200 =  0.234 seconds  ....for a 5.56 round to travel 250 yards.

I would suspect that most of the kills came from the 7.62x51mm rounds. It's far better suited to the range he was shooting from and to chop through that glass.

Juan

I get so frustrated with the reporters. While the sheriff has been asked about the caliber of the ammo found in the room (and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on whether they were 223 or 556) no one has asked what caliber shell casings were found, and more particularly what caliber rounds were found in the concert venue, the gas tanks, and the victims.

Swishypants

Quote from: Juan on October 10, 2017, 05:43:48 AM
I get so frustrated with the reporters. While the sheriff has been asked about the caliber of the ammo found in the room (and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on whether they were 223 or 556) no one has asked what caliber shell casings were found, and more particularly what caliber rounds were found in the concert venue, the gas tanks, and the victims.

5.56x45 would have a hell of a time killing many people at that range. 7.62x51 would do it, but would not be effective on the fuel tanks. Besides, there are chemicals in the fuel tanks to prevent a bullet from igniting it, even a tracer.  He would have needed an RPG-7 at 150 meters or less to do the Fuel Tanks.

=Schlyder=

Quote from: Swishypants on October 10, 2017, 05:32:57 AM
I would suspect that most of the kills came from the 7.62x51mm rounds. It's far better suited to the range he was shooting from and to chop through that glass.

I haven't seen any 7.62 casings laying on the floor in any photos yet though.  if he fired 1000rds of 7.62, there would be casings all over the floor.  actually there is less casing on the floor visible in photos than you would expect to see for how may rounds seem to have been fired. 

Swishypants

Quote from: =Schlyder= on October 10, 2017, 05:46:31 AM
I haven't seen any 7.62 casings laying on the floor in any photos yet though.  if he fired 1000rds of 7.62, there would be casings all over the floor.  actually there is less casing on the floor visible in photos than you would expect to see for how may rounds seem to have been fired.

1,000 rounds? That barrel would have been so red-hot you could see the bullets going down it, and it probably would have sized up before he got there.  A thousand rounds in 10 minutes? Fuck me! Must have been 7.62x91mm out of an MG-42! LOL! Fucking Omaha Beach! :)

=Schlyder=

.223 and 5.56 are pretty much identical round.  the only differences lie in the chamber of the rifle they are fired from.
a .223 chambered rifle should not use 5.56 ammo  ... whereas a 5.56 chambered rifle can use .223 ammo.

Swishypants

Quote from: =Schlyder= on October 10, 2017, 05:51:03 AM
.223 and 5.56 are pretty much identical round.  the only differences lie in the chamber of the rifle they are fired from.
a .223 chambered rifle should not use 5.56 ammo  ... whereas a 5.56 chambered rifle can use .223 ammo.

Wylde Chambers will accommodate both and most AR's are Wylde Chambered now days.

=Schlyder=

Quote from: Swishypants on October 10, 2017, 05:48:52 AM
1,000 rounds? That barrel would have been so red-hot you could see the bullets going down it, and it probably would have sized up before he got there.  A thousand rounds in 10 minutes? Fuck me! Must have been 7.62x91mm out of an MG-42! LOL! Fucking Omaha Beach! :)

I heard from some sources he fired 3000 rounds...  but I doubt that number

Swishypants

Quote from: =Schlyder= on October 10, 2017, 05:54:09 AM
I heard from some sources he fired 3000 rounds...  but I doubt that number

This guy knew just enough to be dangerous. Plenty of guys know way more. He did a good job operationally speaking but a lot of people could have done it better.

=Schlyder=

Quote from: Swishypants on October 10, 2017, 05:51:57 AM
Wylde Chambers will accommodate both and most AR's are Wylde Chambered now days.

yes.. I don't know why they even still make .223 rem and chamber rifles for it... just do it all in 5.56  and eliminate the issue altogether. 

Swishypants

Quote from: =Schlyder= on October 10, 2017, 05:56:07 AM
yes.. I don't know why they even still make .223 rem and chamber rifles for it... just do it all in 5.56  and eliminate the issue altogether.

The high-end paper-puncher nerds still love the .223. It shoots a cunt-hair flatter and further but with less velocity because of the closer tolerance of the chamber.

=Schlyder=

Quote from: Swishypants on October 10, 2017, 05:55:46 AM
This guy knew just enough to be dangerous. Plenty of guys know way more. He did a good job operationally speaking but a lot of people could have done it better.

I agree. Just perfect for a Patsy. 

Swishypants

Quote from: =Schlyder= on October 10, 2017, 06:00:05 AM
I agree. Just perfect for a Patsy.

I don't think so. Just a nut-job and an entitled prick.

=Schlyder=

Quote from: Swishypants on October 10, 2017, 05:57:13 AM
The high-end paper-puncher nerds still love the .223. It shoots a cunt-hair flatter and further but with less velocity because of the closer tolerance of the chamber.

I don't see the big enough demand by paper punchers to warrant a need for the manufacturers to make it though. That's a lot of tooling for small differences in manufacture, and results.  Just why eat all that extra cost? 

Swishypants

Quote from: =Schlyder= on October 10, 2017, 06:03:50 AM
I don't see the big enough demand by paper punchers to warrant a need for the manufacturers to make it though. That's a lot of tooling for small differences in manufacture, and results.  Just why eat all that extra cost?

Well, there are a ton of legacy rifles out there for one. The tooling is already there.

=Schlyder=

Quote from: Swishypants on October 10, 2017, 06:02:02 AM
I don't think so. Just a nut-job and an entitled prick.

yes, a nutter is also an option.   I go with a lefty, anti gun nut job, if we are doing sub genre nutters.  ;D

and there is also the FBI/CIA/DeepState scenario that has to be looked at as well.

Swishypants

Quote from: =Schlyder= on October 10, 2017, 06:09:40 AM
yes, a nutter is also an option.   I go with a lefty, anti gun nut job, if we are doing sub genre nutters.  ;D

and there is also the FBI/CIA/DeepState scenario that has to be looked at as well.

The FBI/CIA can't find it's ass with both hands. Look at Syria and Ukraine. LOL! Those agency's don't allow talent to on-board anymore. They want yes-men and controllability. Not talent.

=Schlyder=

Quote from: Swishypants on October 10, 2017, 06:04:39 AM
Well, there are a ton of legacy rifles out there for one. The tooling is already there.

yeah, I suppose with all the .223 out there already.   LOL make em roll their own. Wouldn't be the first calibre to be retired to the reloaders.  If they are true precision guys  ;)  they are building their own loads anyways.

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