Sports Kneelers

[PB the Deplorable]

No, but he seems to be getting closer to making threats against the NFL or the players over this which would be a crime.

So, just to make clear: you have no problem with any President commenting on anything at any time?

That's too broad of a statement to say yes or no.  The president holds a unique position, with a special Constitutional role and powers, yet is also a citizen with all the rights any other citizen has.  To answer your question, I'm going to support commentary I favor, and oppose commentary I don't.  Which is not addressing their right to say it.

If it crosses a line, I'll say so.  I think some of Obama's comments on Trayvon Martin, Ferguson, Baltimore, and that idiot Harvard professor breaking into his own home crossed a line.  They were meant to light a match to the most explosive onging issue in American politics - the racial divide, that he was trying to widen.  I'm not sure Trump's comments about the NFL players and the National Anthem did - they certainly fell far short of the level of Obama's race-baiting commentary - although they certainly weren't presidential.


The answer really is to elect people of virtue.  That's obviously no longer a criteria for too many of us, and hasn't been for a very long time.  Which is why we get the elected officials we've gotten the past several decades.  Including Trump.  Much of what came out of the 60s was incredibly destructive, including the loss of an ability to wisely choose a president - in this case, a man (or woman) of virtue.

I don't believe Obama should have been trying to divide us by race in every speech, or in any speech.  But like I said, he established precedent in many undesirable ways, so apparently intentionally divisive commentary from our presidents when it suits them is now going to be with us.

[PB the Deplorable]

Are you claiming Trump didn't want or expect that part of his speech to be covered?

I really don't know. 

I'm pointing out the media has some responsibility in all this.  I think if they stuck to the issues that affect the nation, instead of spinning, attacking, burying what doesn't fit their narrative, amplifying what does, trying to groom the news, trying to pick winners and losers, trying to influence policy, and all the rest of their shenanigans - if they simply honestly reported on the events of the day and let their customers decide what to make of it - we'd be far better off as a country.

I doubt Trump's comments about the players in that speech were even in the top ten or twenty most important things he had to say that day, but it certainly was the top issue for the media.  Not only was it another reason to bash Trump, the way the speech was covered it overshadowed the rest of it and anything important was buried.  But if it wasn't that, they would have found some other thing he said, or didn't say, or used different words than what they think he should have

[Jackstar]

I don't get how you two are interpreting these events as anything more than bullshit kabuki theatre. The owners, the President, the media--it's all a manufactured puppet show.


Analyzing this as though they are real people making real decisions based on real information is the absolute height of idiocy. You two, your handlers should allow you to be ashamed of yourselves.




Look at this shit: he's already done this kind of thing before. Obvious psyop is obvious. Wise up.

[PB the Deplorable]

I don't get how you two are interpreting these events as anything more than bullshit kabuki theatre. The owners, the President, the media--it's all a manufactured puppet show.


Analyzing this as though they are real people making real decisions based on real information is the absolute height of idiocy. You two, your handlers should allow you to be ashamed of yourselves...

Are you signing up for Falkie's haunted house tour?

[Kidnostad3]

I don't get how you two are interpreting these events as anything more than bullshit kabuki theatre. The owners, the President, the media--it's all a manufactured puppet show.


Analyzing this as though they are real people making real decisions based on real information is the absolute height of idiocy. You two, your handlers should allow you to be ashamed of yourselves.




Look at this shit: he's already done this kind of thing before. Obvious psyop is obvious. Wise up.

Damn right.  Just like the Chicago Fire, the San Francisco Earth Quake and Hale Bob.  Nothing but psyops.  Fuckin' eh!

[PB the Deplorable]

Maybe there is something to the Black Lives Matter / NFL players movement out protesting the police.


Lone gunman kills 59, injures hundreds, in Las Vegas concert attack
AP Wire - Monday, October 2, 2017 - Mandelay Bay Casino - Updated one hour ago.

''Early Monday morning while the Las Vegas police were out shooting black kids, dozens of NFL players came rushing out of various strip clubs to secure the scene and locate the shooter...''


http://www.associatedpress.com/article/us-usa-lasvegas-shooting/lone-gunman-kills-59-injures-hundreds-in-concert-attack-nfl-players-rush-to-help-before-cops-arrive-idUSKCN1C70FU 

[=Schlyder=]

Maybe there is something to the Black Lives Matter / NFL players movement out protesting the police.


Lone gunman kills 59, injures hundreds, in Las Vegas concert attack
AP Wire - Monday, October 2, 2017 - Mandelay Bay Casino - Updated one hour ago.

''Early Monday morning while the Las Vegas police were out shooting black kids, dozens of NFL players came rushing out of various strip clubs to secure the scene and locate the shooter...''


http://www.associatedpress.com/article/us-usa-lasvegas-shooting/lone-gunman-kills-59-injures-hundreds-in-concert-attack-nfl-players-rush-to-help-before-cops-arrive-idUSKCN1C70FU 

LOL

[PB the Deplorable]

Last week the NFL players who hadn't been sitting, kneeling, or otherwise protesting the police during the National Anthem joined the handful that had - and who had been called SOBs by Trump - in a show of ''unity''.

This week, the majority of players decided they were uncomfortable continuing to do that, that somehow the fans and the rest of the country missed the point, and they were not happy with the reaction.  Did the rest of the players, the ones who were really doing it to protest the police all along then decide to stop as well - in the name of team ''unity''?  No.  Perhaps Trump should point that out, and ask why.


PS about the fans ''missing the point'' - I realize the players aren't generaly known to be geniuses, but are they familiar with the idea that sometimes perception is the reality?

[PB the Deplorable]

Meanwhile, on Mondy's game, played after the Las Vegas shooting, police response, and national unity, all the Redskins players at least stood, and only two Chiefs still thought it was a good idea to sit.  Really guys?

[136 or 142]

I don't get how you two are interpreting these events as anything more than bullshit kabuki theatre. The owners, the President, the media--it's all a manufactured puppet show.


Analyzing this as though they are real people making real decisions based on real information is the absolute height of idiocy. You two, your handlers should allow you to be ashamed of yourselves.

Look at this shit: he's already done this kind of thing before. Obvious psyop is obvious. Wise up.

If you're referring to me as one of the two here, I'm in total agreement with you.  I wrote here 'this is nothing more than the President attempting to deflect attention away from his failing administration and the Mueller Investigation.

I didn't post this here, but on twitter I wrote: these names won't mean anything to people here, but former Delta South independent member of the provincial legislature referred to former British Columbia Premier Christy Clark as the 'Diva of Distraction.'  And that sums up Trump as well: The Diva of Distraction.

[136 or 142]

I really don't know. 

I'm pointing out the media has some responsibility in all this.  I think if they stuck to the issues that affect the nation, instead of spinning, attacking, burying what doesn't fit their narrative, amplifying what does, trying to groom the news, trying to pick winners and losers, trying to influence policy, and all the rest of their shenanigans - if they simply honestly reported on the events of the day and let their customers decide what to make of it - we'd be far better off as a country.

I doubt Trump's comments about the players in that speech were even in the top ten or twenty most important things he had to say that day, but it certainly was the top issue for the media.  Not only was it another reason to bash Trump, the way the speech was covered it overshadowed the rest of it and anything important was buried.  But if it wasn't that, they would have found some other thing he said, or didn't say, or used different words than what they think he should have

1.So what in that speech do you think should have received coverage but didn't?

2.Ezra Klein, the guest liberal panelist on the PBS News Hour weekly political wrap agrees with you on the media coverage.  He said "Why are we even discussing this?  Did Trump pass a law on it?"

Of course, his point was that Trump wanted this covered instead of his failing administration being covered, but he agreed that the media is partly responsible for these stupid sensational discussions.  Of course, while you decry the media coverage here, you also have repeated the Trump/Republican/conservative talking points on it many times here.  So, you also are partly responsible for the media covering it in the first place.

[GravitySucks]

If you're referring to me as one of the two here, I'm in total agreement with you.  I wrote here 'this is nothing more than the President attempting to deflect attention away from his failing administration and the Mueller Investigation.

I didn't post this here, but on twitter I wrote: these names won't mean anything to people here, but former Delta South independent member of the provincial legislature referred to former British Columbia Premier Christy Clark as the 'Diva of Distraction.'  And that sums up Trump as well: The Diva of Distraction.

There is no frikking way you can limit yourself to 140 characters.

[136 or 142]

That's too broad of a statement to say yes or no.  The president holds a unique position, with a special Constitutional role and powers, yet is also a citizen with all the rights any other citizen has.  To answer your question, I'm going to support commentary I favor, and oppose commentary I don't.  Which is not addressing their right to say it.

If it crosses a line, I'll say so.  I think some of Obama's comments on Trayvon Martin, Ferguson, Baltimore, and that idiot Harvard professor breaking into his own home crossed a line.  They were meant to light a match to the most explosive onging issue in American politics - the racial divide, that he was trying to widen.  I'm not sure Trump's comments about the NFL players and the National Anthem did - they certainly fell far short of the level of Obama's race-baiting commentary - although they certainly weren't presidential.


The answer really is to elect people of virtue.  That's obviously no longer a criteria for too many of us, and hasn't been for a very long time.  Which is why we get the elected officials we've gotten the past several decades.  Including Trump.  Much of what came out of the 60s was incredibly destructive, including the loss of an ability to wisely choose a president - in this case, a man (or woman) of virtue.

I don't believe Obama should have been trying to divide us by race in every speech, or in any speech.  But like I said, he established precedent in many undesirable ways, so apparently intentionally divisive commentary from our presidents when it suits them is now going to be with us.

So, while you claim it's too broad a statement, I think it's pretty clear your answer comes down to blaming Obama (a Democrat) to excuse Trump (a Republican)  and that in all future matters you will say that Democratic Presidents should restrain themselves from commenting on societal issues with no clear role for them, while Republican Presidents should have full freedom of speech to comment as they see fit,  So, while you claim that I'm the one using black and white thinking to claim that your thinking is nothing more than "Republicans good, Democrats bad," your own comments, like your response here, shows this black and white thinking describes you perfectly.

So, again, thanks for playing.  My point has been made.  I hope this is our last conversation.

Of course, I'm aware that the Republican Party is divided and that you've been critical of the Congressional Republicans in that they haven't been supportive enough of Trump.  However, I'm also aware that when challenged by Democrats, all Republicans, including you, will come to the aid of the party, and will do so for any Republican.  If you want to respond that you're 'an independent and not a Republican', I won't respond, but will let you have that last word.

[136 or 142]

There is no frikking way you can limit yourself to 140 characters.

Multiple tweets, Comrade.  As an FSB disinformation agent, you're fully aware of how twitter works, so you're clearly just playing dumb here.

[GravitySucks]

Multiple tweets, Comrade.  As an FSB disinformation agent, you're fully aware of how twitter works, so you're clearly just playing dumb here.

Ой. Глупый, глупый мальчик. Еще раз вы путаете роль ФСБ с ролью ГРУ.

[136 or 142]

Ой. Глупый, глупый мальчик. Еще раз вы путаете роль ФСБ с ролью ГРУ.

You'd know your employer better than I would.

[Kidnostad3]

Meanwhile, on Mondy's game, played after the Las Vegas shooting, police response, and national unity, all the Redskins players at least stood, and only two Chiefs still thought it was a good idea to sit.  Really guys?

Some black lives don't matter. 

[136 or 142]

Some black lives don't matter.

You should go to Harlem.  And when they're protesting "black lives matter" you add in 'don't' at the appropriate time.

Black lives (don't) matter!
Black lives (don't) matter!

I'm probably not funny, but I amuse myself.

[GravitySucks]

You should go to Harlem.  And when they're protesting "black lives matter" you add in 'don't' at the appropriate time.

Black lives (don't) matter!
Black lives (don't) matter!

I'm probably not funny, but I amuse myself.

Just wear this on your t-shirt.

[pate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN99jshaQbY

[Zenman]

This article makes it sound like Trump ordered Pence to walk out of the Colts game earlier today. The TV news all evening made it sound like it was Pence's idea. Either way--GIVE ME AN EFFING BREAK!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/us/politics/pence-anthem-colts.html

[PB the Deplorable]

This article makes it sound like Trump ordered Pence to walk out of the Colts game earlier today. The TV news all evening made it sound like it was Pence's idea. Either way--GIVE ME AN EFFING BREAK!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/08/us/politics/pence-anthem-colts.html

One of the illiterate ballplayers accused Pence of a premeditated PR stunt.  Of course the player's actions aren't premeditated PR stunts.

Have they figured out yet that whatever they are doing, doing it during the National Anthem and flag ceremonies is what people are objecting to?  Is it really that hard to figure out, even for a football player?

[Jackstar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTCcf2_5yIw



This timeline is the best timeline.

[Zetaspeak]

This article makes it sound like Trump ordered Pence to walk out of the Colts game earlier today. The TV news all evening made it sound like it was Pence's idea. Either way--GIVE ME AN EFFING BREAK!

One of the illiterate ballplayers accused Pence of a premeditated PR stunt.  Of course the player's actions aren't premeditated PR stunts.

The players "stunt" didn't cost the tax players one single dollar. Pence stunt does. Remember Conservative, this is the type of thing you hated

Did he pay for ticket? He certainly didn't pay for his travel, what about added security personal and for the stadium for him to go to perform this meaningless stunt. After Tom Price and the question of many others in the administration abusing their privilege . Drain the swamp indeed

We aren't even talking the bitch factor. Something you complain about for weeks, go to the event anyway, the thing you complain in the first place happens at said event, leave event, cry and complain about it on social media. Come on, how old are we here. It's amazing everything the right used to mock the left for from celebrity worship to snowflakery they are now acting it out in full since Trump arrived.

Not even getting to the gong show that Trump HAS to make it about himself and Pence story of it being "spontaneously" outrage decision, Trump contradicts it by saying they talked about doing it before hand.

[PB the Deplorable]

Perhaps they do things just to trigger a few folks

[Dr. MD MD]

The players "stunt" didn't cost the tax players one single dollar. Pence stunt does. Remember Conservative, this is the type of thing you hated

Did he pay for ticket? He certainly didn't pay for his travel, what about added security personal and for the stadium for him to go to perform this meaningless stunt. After Tom Price and the question of many others in the administration abusing their privilege . Drain the swamp indeed

We aren't even talking the bitch factor. Something you complain about for weeks, go to the event anyway, the thing you complain in the first place happens at said event, leave event, cry and complain about it on social media. Come on, how old are we here. It's amazing everything the right used to mock the left for from celebrity worship to snowflakery they are now acting it out in full since Trump arrived.

Not even getting to the gong show that Trump HAS to make it about himself and Pence story of it being "spontaneously" outrage decision, Trump contradicts it by saying they talked about doing it before hand.

Funny, I don't remember you guys keeping a running tab on Barry. I guess gay, black guy's get a pass.  :

[Swishypants]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTCcf2_5yIw



This timeline is the best timeline.

JUST WOW! That is the most pathetic thing I believe I have ever seen! What a weak and damaged human being.

[Jackstar]

The players "stunt" didn't cost the tax players one single dollar.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/yp89dj/stephen-a-smith-points-out-nfls-paid-patriotism-problem


You seem woefully uneducated as to the nature of things on this planet. Seriously. Read more.

Add in the fact that the NFL received millions of taxpayer dollars from the Department of Defense and the National Guard for patriotic displays, and it puts the entire Kaepernick hullabaloo in a different light.

[albrecht]

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/yp89dj/stephen-a-smith-points-out-nfls-paid-patriotism-problem


You seem woefully uneducated as to the nature of things on this planet. Seriously. Read more.

I thought was, at least in current format, going back almost a decade, and involving other sports as well. But, considering that many get tax-breaks, anti-monopoly protection, and various assorted interesting labor and media related issues, claims in lawsuits that they are "entertainment" and "spectacle" but not sport, etc and sort of wonder why would this be a surprise? Though, I admit, thinking as I posted in another thread, every time I see the politics in football etc I laugh and think--- predictive programming- of Robert Downey Jr's quote in "Back To School."  But still like it and other sports, on the more local level especially, and appreciate that, contrary to some maybe, that certain social constructs, hazing, and even programming is needed or good? But still will debate it but, maybe, not beyond my programming, so?

[Juan]

Y.A. Tittle - the original sports kneeler dead at 90. Damn MV and his new photo display rules. You’ll have to look it up yourself.