Author Topic: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?  (Read 2033 times)

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Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« on: October 16, 2016, 02:48:08 AM »


Explain please.  I'm not buying the temperature inversion theory.

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2016, 02:55:01 AM »


Explain please.  I'm not buying the temperature inversion theory.

it's the giant head of Bender Bending Rodriguez in profile gazing into a hand held mirror. mystery solved.... except for the giant Bender Bending Rodriguez  head sticking up out of the lake.

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2016, 03:11:34 PM »
Light and temperature definitely do some strange things.

But since that's not the answer you're looking for, it's really hard to try and explain something without understanding the context from whence it came.

To me, it looks like a faraway ship. Just any old (real) ship that's caught in the haze. Not a ghost ship, just a ship that is not reflecting enough unaffected light back to the lens.


Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2016, 03:18:23 PM »


Explain please.  I'm not buying the temperature inversion theory.
That is the theory behind this type of illusion "Fata Morgana":
https://www.wired.com/2015/01/fantastically-wrong-fata-morgana/


Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2016, 03:57:36 PM »


Explain please.  I'm not buying the temperature inversion theory.
Submarine at para-scope depth?

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2016, 04:29:56 PM »
Looks to me like an outtake from that God awful "Battleship" movie from a few years back.

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2016, 04:36:53 PM »
I saw a documentary recently that dealt with this mirage phenomenon. It is an optical illusion created by temperature inversions above the water. In the right conditions, a small vessel will look very large. It's associated with a "false horizon".

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/did-the-titanic-sink-because-of-an-optical-illusion-102040309/?no-ist

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2016, 04:47:37 PM »
Cool! 

I lived up in the U.P.  for 5 years and enjoyed it (though the Winters could be rough).   You could see some strange stuff out on Lake Superior from time to time.   I'd guess the guy was on the coast out at Shot Point and looking towards Marquette and seeing the Presque Isle Power Plant across Marquette Bay.  That would be like 20 miles off in the distance.  However, I just glanced at the video and didn't study where the guy said he was at.   If you drive through Marquette the power plant stacks are very noticeable as they are quite tall:



Driving through Marquette at night was always cool because the neon ears on the Bunny Bread factory moved back and forth.


Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2016, 06:54:36 AM »
Cool! 

I lived up in the U.P.  for 5 years and enjoyed it (though the Winters could be rough).   You could see some strange stuff out on Lake Superior from time to time.   I'd guess the guy was on the coast out at Shot Point and looking towards Marquette and seeing the Presque Isle Power Plant across Marquette Bay.  That would be like 20 miles off in the distance.  However, I just glanced at the video and didn't study where the guy said he was at.   If you drive through Marquette the power plant stacks are very noticeable as they are quite tall:



Driving through Marquette at night was always cool because the neon ears on the Bunny Bread factory moved back and forth.



I was going throw this out as a suggestion, but since there was no context as to where it was filmed I held back. It could just as easily be something around Duluth, Sault Ste. Marie, Thunder Bay, etc. The mirage doesn't even look like a sailing ship to me.

I did my five years in the yoop as well at MTU.   

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2016, 07:53:21 AM »
That is the theory behind this type of illusion "Fata Morgana":
https://www.wired.com/2015/01/fantastically-wrong-fata-morgana/

..apparently the scene-vision of fata morgana in movie "Lawrence of Arabia" is the real deal that just manifested
during the filming.
On DVD in "Directors comments" they are talking about it.

"Lawrence of Arabia" (2/8) Movie CLIP - Ali's Well (1962) HD





[attachment[/attachment]

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2016, 08:17:47 PM »
I was going throw this out as a suggestion, but since there was no context as to where it was filmed I held back. It could just as easily be something around Duluth, Sault Ste. Marie, Thunder Bay, etc. The mirage doesn't even look like a sailing ship to me.

I did my five years in the yoop as well at MTU.

Most excellent.  Always nice to run across a fellow Tech grad..............

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2016, 08:28:13 PM »
I was going throw this out as a suggestion, but since there was no context as to where it was filmed I held back. It could just as easily be something around Duluth, Sault Ste. Marie, Thunder Bay, etc. The mirage doesn't even look like a sailing ship to me.

I did my five years in the yoop as well at MTU.

A two-masted gaff-rigged vessel, with a bare mainmast for some reason?  But only if I squint.  Some old barges on the Great Lakes used that rig. 

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2016, 08:34:02 PM »
A two-masted gaff-rigged vessel, with a bare mainmast for some reason?  But only if I squint.  Some old barges on the Great Lakes used that rig.

When I saw it the other day, the first thing that came to mind was the new style boats they use in America's cup.

Then I started remembering articles about sail-assisted freighters.

Just a thought

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2016, 08:49:01 PM »
When I saw it the other day, the first thing that came to mind was the new style boats they use in America's cup.

Then I started remembering articles about sail-assisted freighters.

Just a thought

Cool!  The freighter is news to me.  That would sure look funny from a distance.


Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2016, 08:53:00 PM »
When I saw it the other day, the first thing that came to mind was the new style boats they use in America's cup.

Then I started remembering articles about sail-assisted freighters.

Just a thought

The timing is wrong but there were some big sailers out on Superior earlier in the year:

http://www.sailtraining.org/tallships/2016greatlakes/TSC2016index.php

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2016, 09:03:03 PM »
Cool!  The freighter is news to me.  That would sure look funny from a distance.

The one in this article would look strange too

http://www.skysails.info/english/skysails-marine/skysails-propulsion-for-cargo-ships/

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2016, 09:05:53 PM »
Why it must necessarily be a ghost ship or even a fancy mirage escapes me.  If it is a sailing ship, isn't it simply "hull down", seen in telephoto through haze or some heat-related distortion?  Wikipedia says hull-down distance is 12 nautical miles from mast height.  It must be considerably less from shore.

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2016, 09:09:26 PM »
The one in this article would look strange too

http://www.skysails.info/english/skysails-marine/skysails-propulsion-for-cargo-ships/

Good Lord -- a mastless spinnaker, basically a kite.  I wonder how many people it takes to hold on to that thing, or if it's mechanized.  Cool to think of ships paying that kind of attention to the wind again, though -- do they take special routes to take advantage of the trades like the clippers?

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2016, 10:54:41 PM »
Good Lord -- a mastless spinnaker, basically a kite.  I wonder how many people it takes to hold on to that thing, or if it's mechanized.  Cool to think of ships paying that kind of attention to the wind again, though -- do they take special routes to take advantage of the trades like the clippers?

I don't know what the state of technology/deployment is right now but I know that advanced composites and advanced microprocessor technologies is opening up new interest in harnassing the wind for shipping.

Some of the articles I have seen include advanced hull design to act as a sail, parasails like I posted above, actual masts/sails and even wind turbines to generate electricity for powering electric drive systems  - here are a few links.

http://www.ecomarinepower.com/en/wind-and-solar-power-for-ships

http://gcaptain.com/wind-power-return-commercial-shipping/

http://www.irena.org/DocumentDownloads/Publications/IRENA_Tech_Brief_RE_for%20Shipping_2015.pdf

http://www.magnuss.com/technologies.html

http://www.marineinsight.com/green-shipping/top-7-green-ship-concepts-using-wind-energy/

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2016, 11:07:32 PM »
I don't know what the state of technology/deployment is right now but I know that advanced composites and advanced microprocessor technologies is opening up new interest in harnassing the wind for shipping.

Some of the articles I have seen include advanced hull design to act as a sail, parasails like I posted above, actual masts/sails and even wind turbines to generate electricity for powering electric drive systems  - here are a few links.

http://www.ecomarinepower.com/en/wind-and-solar-power-for-ships

http://gcaptain.com/wind-power-return-commercial-shipping/

http://www.irena.org/DocumentDownloads/Publications/IRENA_Tech_Brief_RE_for%20Shipping_2015.pdf

http://www.magnuss.com/technologies.html

http://www.marineinsight.com/green-shipping/top-7-green-ship-concepts-using-wind-energy/

Goodness, some of those sail areas must approach the old windjammers!  And the Flettner Rotor is fascinating; would never have guessed it was that old.  Thanks!

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2019, 01:42:11 AM »
Probably not much help but a phantom Ghost Ship index and stories might be of help.
I agree - it's not a temperature inversion - but  - if you've ever sailed the Great Lakes - there is always weird, unexplainable, shit happening. If that pic was taken on an ocean or sea - totally different story.

Phantom ships:  http://fortean.wikidot.com/phantom-ships

;)

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2019, 02:16:15 AM »
Probably not much help but

You probably shouldn't make apologies in your own life, but you certainly shouldn't do it here.

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2019, 02:59:22 AM »
Cool! 

I lived up in the U.P.  for 5 years and enjoyed it (though the Winters could be rough).   You could see some strange stuff out on Lake Superior from time to time.   I'd guess the guy was on the coast out at Shot Point and looking towards Marquette and seeing the Presque Isle Power Plant across Marquette Bay.  That would be like 20 miles off in the distance.  However, I just glanced at the video and didn't study where the guy said he was at.   If you drive through Marquette the power plant stacks are very noticeable as they are quite tall:



Driving through Marquette at night was always cool because the neon ears on the Bunny Bread factory moved back and forth.



   "  It’s further reported that so-called “ghost ships” appear on these waters with some regularity.  Skeptics write them off as mirages caused by atmospheric temperatures clashing with water temperatures. 
Many seasoned mariners, however, believe the lake is home to a “ghost fleet,” made up of ships that have disappeared without a trace somewhere between Duluth, MN and Sault Ste. Marie (“The Soo”).   "

http://paranormalinvestigating.com/ghosts-lake-superior/

I've been on the big lake in a 16' canoe - by myself - more than a couple of times.
The witch of the West is real.
When the water starts turning dark, you get the fuck off the lake. If you're fool enough to stay on the lake until the waters turn black, then you might as well just bend over and kiss your ass goodbye - whether you're in a small canoe or anything that  is under 40'. Even the big vessels respect Superior. The 3 sisters will break the back of any vessel, no matter how big, or well built.
Disrespect Kitchigummi at your own peril. She never gives up her dead.

BTW Presque Isle is haunted like a muther-fuck. ( I lived in that area for over 2 years and used to go out to the park quite a bit.. Haunted - yes. But there was an energy to that place that was very peaceful - but dangerous.  Hard to explain.)   ;)

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2019, 03:02:50 AM »
You probably shouldn't make apologies in your own life, but you certainly shouldn't do it here.
Why not. Everyone has split over to that other place.  >:(

...and that wasn't an apology.

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2019, 03:10:21 AM »

I've been on the big lake in a 16' canoe - by myself - more than a couple of times.
The witch of the West is real.
When the water starts turning dark, you get the fuck off the lake.
Waters turn dark because a storm is coming?  Or does it happen on a nice, normal day as well (could you watch a weather app instead of the waters to know?)

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2019, 04:49:08 AM »
Waters turn dark because a storm is coming?  Or does it happen on a nice, normal day as well (could you watch a weather app instead of the waters to know?)
The water will tell you a good 1/2 an hour before you even get a clue by the air & sky, that a storm is coming in.
But weird shit happens. there's usually a 'feel to the air. When the water starts turning dark, the hair on the back of your neck will also stand up. It's almost an electrical thing. Find the closest island and shelter in. Storms on the big lake come in quick - real quick..
Weather apps are generally too late. Superior changes moods like a woman 'at that time'. (No offense offered, ladies.)
I honestly think there is infra-sound involved. You can feel it before you can see it. Almost like that 50 mph wind that's 60 miles away creates a turbulence that travels across the waters before you have any visual inkling that you're about to be slammed with a squall.
Superior can be a real wicked bitch.
The Great Lakes are different than any others in the world. They actually slosh. The waves travel from one side to the other, bounce back, and if the wind is just right, reinforce the next set of waves heading for the other shore. Think additive resonance. Superior is especially bad for this. The 3 sisters are a real phenomenon and are so close together, that they'll break the back of any vessel unfortunate enough to encounter them.  Imagine getting hit by three tidal waves - 20, 40, then 60 feet high, all within  10 seconds of each other. That's enough to drive any vessel under water and break it into pieces in the process.
Most people that even knew about it considered it an old wives' (or widows') tale and thought the sailors were just feeding them shit. (Naval legend - ghost story, sailors' tale.)
Science has finally caught up to what the great lakes sailors have known for hundreds of years...
https://www.twincities.com/2015/11/08/with-edmund-fitzgerald-in-mind-scientists-confirm-rogue-waves-on-lake-superior/

;)

Yeah, dark water - seek shelter fast. In other words, get the fuck to a sheltered cove - get off the water.

BTW - Door county WI used to be known as Death's Door County because of the hundreds upon hundreds of ships that went down there. They changed it to Door county to bring in the tourists. 

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2019, 10:15:33 PM »
You probably shouldn't make apologies in your own life, but you certainly shouldn't do it here.
Hang on there, Jackstar, I didn't see an apology, or a reason for one.

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2019, 10:55:32 PM »

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2019, 12:03:25 AM »
Fags & their boats.

Re: Ghost Ship or what on Lake Superior?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2019, 02:08:07 AM »
The water will tell you a good 1/2 an hour before you even get a clue by the air & sky, that a storm is coming in.
By your description I think I would just avoid the lake completely.  There has to be better places to put a canoe in the water...  ;)