Author be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"  (Read 8821 times)

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Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #300 on: November 23, 2017, 10:52:36 PM »

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #301 on: November 24, 2017, 12:26:08 AM »
In the grand scheme of things no medium to large intensity conflict between North Korea and South Korea + its allies is happening anytime soon(several decades)  and most likely is never happening.  A medium to large intensity conflict could possibly put China/South Korea, thus by extension all of south east Asia and possibly the rest of the world into an economic depression. For these reasons the entire world wonít permit it. What would be considered low intensity conflict in extreme circumstances could be permissible.

The Kim dynasty and North Korea as itís currently known will most likely end from military coup or ironically from a peasant revolution.

A post Kim regime NorthKorea is most likely required before a reunification with the South is plausible. The post unification Korean state will probably take at least if not longer then Germany did post Cold War to become stable and thus a player in the region and global economy.

A strong unified Korean Peninsula would only be the first step for the Korean people in their nation building, they inevitability would want to incoorporate the ethnically/historically Korean parts of what are now China. They may even be willing to goto war with China at that part in time for said disputed areas.

For all the above, itís in Chinaís Best interest to maintain the current North/South Korea status quo for as long as possible.

The Korean Peninsula is a Cold War everyone knows how will end. The only issue is that all the players involved want to put off the inevitable ending as long as possible.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #302 on: November 24, 2017, 01:34:15 AM »
In the grand scheme of things no medium to large intensity conflict between North Korea and South Korea + its allies is happening anytime soon(several decades)  and most likely is never happening.  A medium to large intensity conflict could possibly put China/South Korea, thus by extension all of south east Asia and possibly the rest of the world into an economic depression. For these reasons the entire world wonít permit it. What would be considered low intensity conflict in extreme circumstances could be permissible.

The Kim dynasty and North Korea as itís currently known will most likely end from military coup or ironically from a peasant revolution.

A post Kim regime NorthKorea is most likely required before a reunification with the South is plausible. The post unification Korean state will probably take at least if not longer then Germany did post Cold War to become stable and thus a player in the region and global economy.

A strong unified Korean Peninsula would only be the first step for the Korean people in their nation building, they inevitability would want to incoorporate the ethnically/historically Korean parts of what are now China. They may even be willing to goto war with China at that part in time for said disputed areas.

For all the above, itís in Chinaís Best interest to maintain the current North/South Korea status quo for as long as possible.

The Korean Peninsula is a Cold War everyone knows how will end. The only issue is that all the players involved want to put off the inevitable ending as long as possible.

Well, if you say so.


Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #303 on: November 24, 2017, 03:10:13 PM »


GO NEWS is a leftest propaganda machine. 

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #304 on: November 24, 2017, 03:17:09 PM »
GO NEWS is a leftest propaganda machine.
Do you really think so?  I'm beginning to wonder myself. 
I am flexible enough to change my mind when I see enough evidence to do so. ;)

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #305 on: November 24, 2017, 03:24:45 PM »
Do you really think so?  I'm beginning to wonder myself. 
I am flexible enough to change my mind when I see enough evidence to do so. ;)

Thatís my opinion.  I once subscribed to GO NEWS but unsubscribed when it seemed to me that they produce just enough ďunbiasedĒ content to maintain credibility but, in general, come down hardest on Trump and conservatives. 

New Missile Launch by North Korea
« Reply #306 on: November 28, 2017, 03:45:56 PM »
North Korea launches new ballistic missile - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-42160227

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #307 on: November 28, 2017, 07:31:43 PM »

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #308 on: November 28, 2017, 08:12:57 PM »
Is it time yet?

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight
« Reply #309 on: November 28, 2017, 09:25:34 PM »
Is it time yet?

Trump needs to stop ďexercisingĒ at them and take care of bidness.  Heís got 3 carrier BGís on station and some highly pissed off Japanese.  Itís never going to get easier and Iím thinking itís time to evacuate dependents.  How much easier would it have been 5 or 8 years ago when we were in the ďstrategic patienceĒ mode.  If he develops a deliverable warhead or, god forbid, a MIRV, the world will be stuck with the little prick for the remainder of his natural life. 

And yes, I am aware that itís going to mean people get killed.  For those of you that are aghast at the thought, would you prefer to wait for a nuclear strike on the U.S. and the inevitable massive nuclear retaliation which would kill every man woman and child in N. Korea.  That sort of pacifistic thinking is what got us into this jackpot in the first place and will be responsible for the increased number of casualties that we will now sustain.

Are we going to kick this can down the road and leave it to our children and grandchildren to deal with?  Arenít they going to have enough on their plate as it is. 


Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #311 on: November 28, 2017, 09:47:20 PM »

North Korea 'tested new long-range missile' that can reach US - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-42162462

Not so sure taunting Trump is a good idea.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #312 on: November 28, 2017, 09:53:26 PM »
In the grand scheme of things no medium to large intensity conflict between North Korea and South Korea + its allies is happening anytime soon(several decades)  and most likely is never happening.  A medium to large intensity conflict could possibly put China/South Korea, thus by extension all of south east Asia and possibly the rest of the world into an economic depression. For these reasons the entire world wonít permit it. What would be considered low intensity conflict in extreme circumstances could be permissible.

The Kim dynasty and North Korea as itís currently known will most likely end from military coup or ironically from a peasant revolution.

A post Kim regime NorthKorea is most likely required before a reunification with the South is plausible. The post unification Korean state will probably take at least if not longer then Germany did post Cold War to become stable and thus a player in the region and global economy.

A strong unified Korean Peninsula would only be the first step for the Korean people in their nation building, they inevitability would want to incoorporate the ethnically/historically Korean parts of what are now China. They may even be willing to goto war with China at that part in time for said disputed areas.

For all the above, itís in Chinaís Best interest to maintain the current North/South Korea status quo for as long as possible.

The Korean Peninsula is a Cold War everyone knows how will end. The only issue is that all the players involved want to put off the inevitable ending as long as possible.

Economics doesn't play into it.  If it did, this would have been resolved long ago.  China uses them to distract us while they steal us blind through technology ''transfer'' (military and industry), through ''trade'', stealing our jobs and our markets while we sit idly by, and as they annex the South China Sea.

China hasn't gotten the message, and due to the above isn't going to get the message.  It's time for Trump to tell them that when we remove the threat - on our own time table, and whatever that entails - they need to stand down, that we'll give them a heads up shortly after the operations begin.  That if they don't t like it, they'd better get busy in a hurry.  I had hoped he'd already delivered that message.  Perhaps he has.

It's probably in everyone's interest for North Korea to continue to be a vassel state of China.  South Korea doesn't need or want that mess, and there is no point in provoking China over it - especially if we remove Kim.  Regardless of South Korea's thoughts on the matter, we have no strategic interest there.

The real threat now is all those conventional missles supposedly poised to rain down on Seoul and the rest of the region, but it seems to me those can be taken off the launch pads the same time we annihilate the rest of their fighting capacity.  That would certainly be the top priority.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #313 on: November 28, 2017, 10:06:43 PM »
Economics doesn't play into it.  If it did, this would have been resolved long ago.  China uses them to distract us while they steal us blind through technology ''transfer'' (military and industry), through ''trade'', stealing our jobs and our markets while we sit idly by, and as they annex the South China Sea.

China hasn't gotten the message, and due to the above isn't going to get the message.  It's time for Trump to tell them that when we remove the threat - on our own time table, and whatever that entails - they need to stand down, that we'll give them a heads up shortly after the operations begin.  That if they don't t like it, they'd better get busy in a hurry.  I had hoped he'd already delivered that message.  Perhaps he has.

It's probably in everyone's interest for North Korea to continue to be a vassel state of China.  South Korea doesn't need or want that mess, and there is no point in provoking China over it - especially if we remove Kim.  Regardless of South Korea's thoughts on the matter, we have no strategic interest there.

The real threat now is all those conventional missles supposedly poised to rain down on Seoul and the rest of the region, but it seems to me those can be taken off the launch pads the same time we annihilate the rest of their fighting capacity.  That would certainly be the top priority.

I believe the problem can be greatly mitigated by a combination of highly synchronized air strikes and a whole bunch of submarine and surface ship launched TLAMs as well as a fusillade of artillery and whatever they have in the way of medium range missiles in the south.  There are anti missile systems in South Korea and ships with the Aegis Combat SYstem which has an impressive anti missile capability.  Look at the effectiveness of the IsraelI/U.S developd Iron Dome anti missile system.  If they go nuclear itís lights out in NK and there will be ďhotĒ spots for a few years in the landscape north of the 38th parallel. 



Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #314 on: November 28, 2017, 10:21:56 PM »
Let's get Ambassador Rodman over there right away!

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #315 on: November 29, 2017, 12:04:57 PM »

The real threat now is all those conventional missiles supposedly poised to rain down on Seoul and the rest of the region

It's the North's artillery you have to worry about.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #316 on: November 29, 2017, 12:08:03 PM »
It's the North's artillery you have to worry about.

Even a first strike might not neutralize that threat.  But if the South is willing to ride out that possibility of return fire, the time may well have come.   

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #317 on: November 29, 2017, 12:16:07 PM »
Even a first strike might not neutralize that threat.  But if the South is willing to ride out that possibility of return fire, the time may well have come.

I'd have to dig it up, but I've read estimates of 1 million dead in the first day of a war from artillery bombardment of Seoul and other SK cities.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #318 on: November 29, 2017, 12:22:40 PM »
Even a first strike might not neutralize that threat.  But if the South is willing to ride out that possibility of return fire, the time may well have come.

Yup, there is definitely going to be incoming in and around Soul but do you think it can be surpressed to any significant degree?  I understand that NK has a tripwire doctrine in place so taking out command, control and communications will not be as effective a measure as it was in Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom. 

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #319 on: November 29, 2017, 12:26:34 PM »
I'd have to dig it up, but I've read estimates of 1 million dead in the first day of a war from artillery bombardment of Seoul and other SK cities.

Funny thing about stats and estimates, they are often silly wild ass guesses based on 100% performance of the entities involved.  I'm sure that your numbers are accurate, to your recollection.  But that is probably worst case as well.   Degradation of the enemies abilities makes those numbers slide downwards real fast.  To be fair, degradation estimates usually begin with 100% performance and slide down fm there.

So, again, if the South says 'Lets do this' then Let's do this.  By my estimate, the NorK have already pulled the trigger.  The Japanese are chomping at the bit to finish the Fat Fucker off, and the U.S., while extremely patient, will not continue to suffer a threatening posture fm the FF either regionally or internationally.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #320 on: November 29, 2017, 12:33:51 PM »
Funny thing about stats and estimates, they are often silly wild ass guesses based on 100% performance of the entities involved.  I'm sure that your numbers are accurate, to your recollection.  But that is probably worst case as well.   Degradation of the enemies abilities makes those numbers slide downwards real fast.  To be fair, degradation estimates usually begin with 100% performance and slide down fm there.

So, again, if the South says 'Lets do this' then Let's do this.  By my estimate, the NorK have already pulled the trigger.  The Japanese are chomping at the bit to finish the Fat Fucker off, and the U.S., while extremely patient, will not continue to suffer a threatening posture fm the FF either regionally or internationally.

I agree.  Failure to do something effective at this juncture would result in literally billions of people being put in jeopardy in the outyears and be a disastrous blow to Americaís geopolitical standing.  Along these lines, I note that Iran has announced that they are deploying 2or 3 ships to the Gulf of Mexico which is no big threat but they are sticking a finger in our eye.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #321 on: November 29, 2017, 12:42:22 PM »
Yup, there is definitely going to be incoming in and around Soul but do you think it can be surpressed to any significant degree?  I understand that NK has a tripwire doctrine in place so taking out command, control and communications will not be as effective a measure as it was in Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom.

Nobody is saying that the NorKs are stupid and to underestimate them because of The Fat Fuck, would be a grievous error.  They learned that Soviet triple redundancy has a limited quality.  They have learned that a highly centralized CCC is a quick death on the battlefield. The CCC of the NorKs is not to be underestimated.  Also, the tripwire doctrine you cite can be effective, like a deadmans switch, but this is NorK.  With a long history of tightly held power/control. 
A tell on how tightly the CCC is might be their gas masks for the common troop.  Do they all come equipped with a voicemitter?  Or just the Officer and comms folk?  If they all have 'mitters, that tells me that the CCC is/might be a bit looser.
We can't think of the NorK as a 3rd world entity.  This is the Hermit Kingdom and they have the finest equipment gifted to them by the Chinese or straight out stole fm others.  They are not Iraq and they are not the Soviet Union.  Hell, even the S.U. wasn't the Soviet Union.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #322 on: November 29, 2017, 12:45:57 PM »
I agree.  Failure to do something effective at this juncture would result in literally billions of people being put in jeopardy in the outyears and be a disastrous blow to Americaís geopolitical standing. Along these lines, I note that Iran has announced that they are deploying 2or 3 ships to the Gulf of Mexico which is no big threat but they are sticking a finger in our eye.
Yeah.  Well, whatever.  Unless they have nukes in their holds and plan on making a suicide run for American harbors or oil platforms.....

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #323 on: November 29, 2017, 12:46:18 PM »
Nobody is saying that the NorKs are stupid and to underestimate them because of The Fat Fuck, would be a grievous error.  They learned that Soviet triple redundancy has a limited quality.  They have learned that a highly centralized CCC is a quick death on the battlefield. The CCC of the NorKs is not to be underestimated.  Also, the tripwire doctrine you cite can be effective, like a deadmans switch, but this is NorK.  With a long history of tightly held power/control. 
A tell on how tightly the CCC is might be their gas masks for the common troop.  Do they all come equipped with a voicemitter?  Or just the Officer and comms folk?  If they all have 'mitters, that tells me that the CCC is/might be a bit looser.
We can't think of the NorK as a 3rd world entity.  This is the Hermit Kingdom and they have the finest equipment gifted to them by the Chinese or straight out stole fm others.  They are not Iraq and they are not the Soviet Union.  Hell, even the S.U. wasn't the Soviet Union.

Good points.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #324 on: November 29, 2017, 12:54:42 PM »
... We can't think of the NorK as a 3rd world entity.  This is the Hermit Kingdom and they have the finest equipment gifted to them by the Chinese or straight out stole fm others.  They are not Iraq and they are not the Soviet Union.  Hell, even the S.U. wasn't the Soviet Union.

Is this true?  Even China still has a ways to go before they fully modernize their military.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #325 on: November 29, 2017, 12:55:53 PM »
Yeah.  Well, whatever.  Unless they have nukes in their holds and plan on making a suicide run for American harbors or oil platforms.....

Weíve always considered the Gulf to be our mare nostrum but modern diesel/energy cell submarines can stay submerged for up to 3 weeks without snorkeling, have long legs and are very quiet.   iím betting that any Iranian surface ships entering the Gulf will be accompanied by at least one and probably more submarines.  You have to wonder if the NK has shared with them the submarine launch technology that they are known to have.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #326 on: November 29, 2017, 12:57:47 PM »
Weíve always considered the Gulf to be our mare nostrum but modern diesel/energy cell submarines can stay submerged for up to 3 weeks without snorkeling, have long legs and very quiet.   iím betting that any Iranian surface ships entering the Gulf will be accompanied by at least one and probably more submarines.  You have to wonder if the NK has shard with them any of the submarine launch technology that they are known to have.

good point.  Hopefully, it will just turn out to be a good training exercise for our Navy and Coast Guard.

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #327 on: November 29, 2017, 01:04:28 PM »
Is this true?  Even China still has a ways to go before they fully modernize their military.

Fully modernize.  What does that mean exactly?  We could fully modernize our Marines if we could just get the railgun down to carbine weight. I dunno.  China is asshole buddies with NorK.  NorK gets shit fm the Chinese.  NorK steals everything it can and then utilizes that stolen tech. 

And yes, true enough, PB.  Military losses could be high.  Civilian losses could be high.  As a grunt, if I take a spear to the chest or a 9mm to the chest, I'm just as fucked.  They are as modern as they are going to get.  *cue the ominous music*

Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #328 on: November 29, 2017, 02:11:55 PM »
Weíve always considered the Gulf to be our mare nostrum but modern diesel/energy cell submarines can stay submerged for up to 3 weeks without snorkeling, have long legs and are very quiet.   iím betting that any Iranian surface ships entering the Gulf will be accompanied by at least one and probably more submarines.  You have to wonder if the NK has shared with them the submarine launch technology that they are known to have.

Another case of geopolitical expediency forming odd alliances, a fanatically religious society aligned with a doctrinal atheistic nation state.  The hard currency the NKs gains from selling technology to Iran is probably foremost in their minds, sticking it to the US is just a bonus.

A few years back the Iranians sent warships off the US east coast, from what I read they were in poor condition and unreliable. I remember the term "sitting ducks" being used.  I would be interested to see an assessment of their ability to logistically support their ships away from the Persian Gulf and land based maintenance.


Re: be "ready to fight [North Korea] tonight,"
« Reply #329 on: November 29, 2017, 02:25:53 PM »
Funny thing about stats and estimates, they are often silly wild ass guesses based on 100% performance of the entities involved.  I'm sure that your numbers are accurate, to your recollection.  But that is probably worst case as well.   Degradation of the enemies abilities makes those numbers slide downwards real fast.  To be fair, degradation estimates usually begin with 100% performance and slide down fm there.

So, again, if the South says 'Lets do this' then Let's do this.  By my estimate, the NorK have already pulled the trigger.  The Japanese are chomping at the bit to finish the Fat Fucker off, and the U.S., while extremely patient, will not continue to suffer a threatening posture fm the FF either regionally or internationally.

During the buildup to Desert Storm, Mrs. Duke (USAF civil service intensive care nurse) was part of an IPT preparing her hospital for US casualties.  The briefings they received gave predicted casualties in excess of even the dire numbers being bandied about by pundits, with discussions about working double and triple shifts and where they could store coffins and body bags.  Thankfully casualties were unexpectedly light.