Author Topic: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread  (Read 102947 times)

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Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #660 on: March 14, 2015, 02:33:12 PM »

Pools of Molten Steel and elements fused together = strong indications of the use of explosives.



No it doesn't. Explosives don't melt steel. Sustained intense heat (usually with injected oxygen) melts steel...Look up 'blast furnace'...and 'Steel making'. But you had this told you before, why do you ignore the facts about melting steel?

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #661 on: March 15, 2015, 10:56:57 AM »
Sure whatever, MV, I'll be your whipping boy. That's what I signed up for; must be what I like…

 Here's a 45 second video. Think you can handle it?



The Designer of the Twin Towers says they were meant to survive airplane impact.
The asbestos fire retardant coating was removed in the early 90's (I think) which allowed the fire from the jet fuel burn freely. The exposed steel beams heated up and weakened. Then the building collapsed.

Everyone can go home now. Bye.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #662 on: March 15, 2015, 11:18:20 AM »
O & A have really been on the forefront of debunking slot of 9/11 stuff since it happened. I enjoy Jim Norton when he takes on truthers. The way he keeps calm as he dismantles point by point their claims and asks very poignant questions often remind me of how I picture Art would be if he went against an Alex Jones type.

Are you Mike Bara? This couldn't be further from the truth but hey when you search out people who defend the MSM version of 9/11 you'll land on that smug little scumbag Norton and radio lottery winner Opie.  The only one I half way respect is Anthony and he at the very least has an open mind and changes his mind especially since he has started his new, much improved show from his house.  If they, Opie&Jimmy were really on the "forefront" they'd actually have someone on the show that knows what they are talking about instead over the phone where they can talk over them and Norton can do his douchey "what's that sweetie" comments to their face.....Oh wait when Jesse Ventura was in there Norton acted like a little child and like he does best waited until Ventura left to talk tough. It is just pathetic that anyone still believes a single word of the "official version" of 9-11 and even more sad that you truly believe anyone of those radio hacks dismantled a thing point by point.......


Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #663 on: March 15, 2015, 11:31:58 AM »
Are you Mike Bara? This couldn't be further from the truth but hey when you search out people who defend the MSM version of 9/11 you'll land on that smug little scumbag Norton and radio lottery winner Opie.  The only one I half way respect is Anthony and he at the very least has an open mind and changes his mind especially since he has started his new, much improved show from his house.  If they, Opie&Jimmy were really on the "forefront" they'd actually have someone on the show that knows what they are talking about instead over the phone where they can talk over them and Norton can do his douchey "what's that sweetie" comments to their face.....Oh wait when Jesse Ventura was in there Norton acted like a little child and like he does best waited until Ventura left to talk tough. It is just pathetic that anyone still believes a single word of the "official version" of 9-11 and even more sad that you truly believe anyone of those radio hacks dismantled a thing point by point.......

OMG, thank you Eugene for saying so. I was beginning to think I was the only one on BellGab who thinks that way. I mean how can an Art Bell fan forum not have any decent 9/11 CT's that can stand up for the Truth? Have they all been shouted down? I mean, If your information comes from Jim Norton, you're in big trouble. The guy is a talentless, establishment hack who tells offensive jokes. He's not even that funny; he's just petty and mean. Where's the truth in that?

And someone please tell me, BellGabbers, when did it became Taboo to talk about 9/11? Is this some sort of new Mainstream push to eliminate the calls for a new investigation? To make sure it's a non-issue in 2016 election cycle?  Did I missed a memo or something?


Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #664 on: March 15, 2015, 12:13:26 PM »
OMG, thank you Eugene for saying so. I was beginning to think I was the only one on BellGab who thinks that way. I mean how can an Art Bell fan forum not have any decent 9/11 CT's that can stand up for the Truth?


A change of tack isn't it? I thought you were still 'searching for the truth'? What you mean is thus: "I'm open to anything that is away from the official course of events and study. I'm pretending to be open minded, but hey, when I say that, I don't mean it. I mean anything that would find a home on Alex Jones' or David Icke's forums, and anyone who disagrees with that is a government paid employee. Probably CIA or FBI or summink"


At least you got there in the end.. And explosives that bring down buildings (Other than the kind dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki) still don't melt steel...

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #665 on: March 15, 2015, 12:15:09 PM »
 I will first point out my qualifications and then make my comment on the 3 buildings that came down on 9/11.

I am a Journeyman Welder. So I have very good knowledge of metallurgy, along with hands on experience working with all kinds of metals and the processes used in working with metals.
This includes structural welding, and working with large I beams.

  I also have worked for an industrial fireproofing company named Park-Derochie out of Edmonton, Alberta Canada.  So I also have experience/knowledge of the types of fireproofing products that were available at the time of the WTC construction.  Two products, Chartek and Pyrocrete, I have experience installing on large steel structures.  Chartek is an epoxy based product, and once that stuff gets on something, it is there forever. LOL 
   So, I do not make comment on this topic as someone with zero understanding of the science involved.  I believe I have a credible and professional knowledge base which allows me to make an informed comment. 

That said....   My comment on 9/11 is...  I do not believe the "official" story of what caused the collapses of the three buildings.   That is based on my professional experience.
 

 
     

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #666 on: March 15, 2015, 12:44:58 PM »
There are things we know about 9/11, things we think we know, things we can't know, things we don't know we don't know, and things we want to know which we have no way of knowing but one thing is for damn sure; I'll never believe a fucking thing that Rummy, Dickless Cheney, and Wolfowitz in sheep's clothing ever say, about anything.
That is all.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #667 on: March 15, 2015, 12:50:13 PM »
I will first point out my qualifications and then make my comment on the 3 buildings that came down on 9/11.

I am a Journeyman Welder. So I have very good knowledge of metallurgy, along with hands on experience working with all kinds of metals and the processes used in working with metals.
This includes structural welding, and working with large I beams.

  I also have worked for an industrial fireproofing company named Park-Derochie out of Edmonton, Alberta Canada.  So I also have experience/knowledge of the types of fireproofing products that were available at the time of the WTC construction.  Two products, Chartek and Pyrocrete, I have experience installing on large steel structures.  Chartek is an epoxy based product, and once that stuff gets on something, it is there forever. LOL 
   So, I do not make comment on this topic as someone with zero understanding of the science involved.  I believe I have a credible and professional knowledge base which allows me to make an informed comment. 

That said....   My comment on 9/11 is...  I do not believe the "official" story of what caused the collapses of the three buildings.   That is based on my professional experience.
 

 
     

You sir, are definitely being reported to MV. The only point I ever wanted to make is that thinking, professional people from all walks of life believe that explosives were involved, especially in regards to building 7.  That's all I really want MV to concede. It's not just morons and idiots who believe this. IMO, the more the MSM protests/attacks a certain group, demonizing and ridiculing them, the more we should look at what they are saying.

I mean, Tower 1 fell after being "on fire" for only one hour! One hour of jet-fueled office fires and then it gave up the ghost and fell straight down? No Way.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #668 on: March 15, 2015, 01:07:21 PM »
There are things we know about 9/11, things we think we know, things we can't know, things we don't know we don't know, and things we want to know which we have no way of knowing but one thing is for damn sure; I'll never believe a fucking thing that Rummy, Dickless Cheney, and Wolfowitz in sheep's clothing ever say, about anything.
That is all.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall for a meeting between Rumsfeld and Aldous Burbank.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #669 on: March 15, 2015, 01:08:34 PM »
There are 1000s of architects and engineers, and other tradesmen who do not support the "official" story.



 

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #670 on: March 15, 2015, 01:18:48 PM »
One only has to do a little bit of research using google  to find out what the temperature of open air burning jet fuel is.
As well as some research in Metallurgy. Types of steel, and other metals used in the buildings.  Melting point and other temperature related information.  Tensile strengths and ductility information.
  Then throw in some information on fireproofing of structural steel.  And finally some research into who designed and built the Twin Towers and what the specifications were.
   

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #671 on: March 15, 2015, 01:24:13 PM »
There are 1000s of architects and engineers, and other tradesmen who do not support the "official" story.
MV doesn't believe this. He thinks it's only idiot, Alex-Jones "Truthers," who doubt the official story. There are serious scientists who believe things other than the official CT.  The many issues presented by the evidence of that day have NOT been solved yet. There is no scientific consensus despite what journalists like O&A and Jim Norton might suggest.  We, as a society, need to take another look at 9/11. 

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #672 on: March 15, 2015, 01:36:02 PM »
MV doesn't believe this. He thinks it's only idiot, Alex-Jones "Truthers," who doubt the official story. There are serious scientists who believe things other than the official CT.  The many issues presented by the evidence of that day have NOT been solved yet. There is no scientific consensus despite what journalists like O&A and Jim Norton might suggest.  We, as a society, need to take another look at 9/11.

You believe the steel structure melted; MV says (as does the official report) that the steel structure was severely weakened by heat, the integrity of the buildings was compromised. It fell in on itself.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #673 on: March 15, 2015, 01:43:03 PM »
You believe the steel structure melted; MV says (as does the official report) that the steel structure was severely weakened by heat, the integrity of the buildings was compromised. It fell in on itself.
Whether or not pre-installed explosives were involved = whether or not David Carradine had a hooker with him when he closeted. Dude's still dead.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #674 on: March 15, 2015, 01:44:41 PM »
http://www.parkderochie.com/

  In the mid 80s when I worked for them, they worked mainly fireproofing for the Petroleum industry.  One jobsite I worked on we were replacing the fireproofing to the structural steel AFTER an explosion/fire.  A petroleum fire that burned much LONGER than one hour.  And the structure didn't fail....because the product did it's job... I know this as I was there,  replacing fireproofing onto the steel structure that was previously on fire.  A steel structure that supported very heavy pressure vessels and such,  and all the pipe and valves and other items found on an oil refinery structure.
  That is a direct experience with a fuel fire to a fireproofed steel structure that I have had,  that could be fairly compared.   

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #675 on: March 15, 2015, 01:56:16 PM »
http://www.parkderochie.com/

  In the mid 80s when I worked for them, they worked mainly fireproofing for the Petroleum industry.  One jobsite I worked on we were replacing the fireproofing to the structural steel AFTER an explosion/fire.  A petroleum fire that burned much LONGER than one hour.  And the structure didn't fail....because the product did it's job... I know this as I was there,  replacing fireproofing onto the steel structure that was previously on fire.  A steel structure that supported very heavy pressure vessels and such,  and all the pipe and valves and other items found on an oil refinery structure.
  That is a direct experience with a fuel fire to a fireproofed steel structure that I have had,  that could be fairly compared.

Can it be fairly compared? The WTC were massive concrete, steel and glass skyscrapers. The asbestos was removed,, I have no idea what fireproofing provision was made on the steel after that removal. The steel lost it's integrity because the fuel from the airliners wasn't the only thing burning...it acted as an accelerant. Being offices, there'd be carpets, wood, LOTS of paper, various solvents/chemicals.. Wall coverings, doors...lots of things to sustain a fire long enough to weaken steel.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #676 on: March 15, 2015, 02:01:09 PM »
Can it be fairly compared? The WTC were massive concrete, steel and glass skyscrapers. The asbestos was removed,, I have no idea what fireproofing provision was made on the steel after that removal. The steel lost it's integrity because the fuel from the airliners wasn't the only thing burning...it acted as an accelerant. Being offices, there'd be carpets, wood, LOTS of paper, various solvents/chemicals.. Wall coverings, doors...lots of things to sustain a fire long enough to weaken steel.

And what temperature is require to make the steel lose integrity?  And what temperature would all the office material be burning at.  That should be readily available from fire department testing.
Have you done any research?   What are your credentials, and relevant professional experience?

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #677 on: March 15, 2015, 02:20:17 PM »
And what temperature is require to make the steel lose integrity?  And what temperature would all the office material be burning at.  That should be readily available from fire department testing.
Have you done any research?   What are your credentials, and relevant professional experience?

Well, you tell me. What is the point at which the steel used in the WTC would lose enough integrity to fold in? What were the temperatures recorded? (I suspect no-one stayed around long enough to do scientific research at that point though).

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #678 on: March 15, 2015, 03:06:18 PM »
Well, you tell me. What is the point at which the steel used in the WTC would lose enough integrity to fold in? What were the temperatures recorded? (I suspect no-one stayed around long enough to do scientific research at that point though).

 Do your own research. That is the only way you will really know,  and believe what the evidence shows. Then you can make your decision on the official story. 
I have done research on that, and many other aspects,  like molten steel in the basement a month after the collapse. 
 So, my own research, coupled with my other professional qualifications, and experience,  is how I arrived at the conclusion that the official story of the cause of collapse of the 3 buildings, into their own footprints, is not believable.       

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #679 on: March 15, 2015, 03:14:18 PM »
Do your own research. That is the only way you will really know,  and believe what the evidence shows. Then you can make your decision on the official story. 
I have done research on that, and many other aspects,  like molten steel in the basement a month after the collapse. 
 So, my own research, coupled with my other professional qualifications, and experience,  is how I arrived at the conclusion that the official story of the cause of collapse of the 3 buildings, into their own footprints, is not believable.     

When you say research; what specifically? CT websites or spoken to scientists/engineers personally who have studied and submitted reports on the matter?

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #680 on: March 15, 2015, 03:22:47 PM »
I am not trying to persuade anyone into believing anything.
 I will only say to do your own proper research, and then make your own conclusion from the evidence and facts. 

 



 


Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #681 on: March 15, 2015, 03:26:15 PM »
I am not trying to persuade anyone into believing anything.
 I will only say to do your own proper research, and then make your own conclusion from the evidence and facts. 

 

All I asked was what research you had done to arrive at your conclusions. I'm supposing it's credible and professionally validated with research papers.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #682 on: March 15, 2015, 03:39:58 PM »
When you say research; what specifically? CT websites or spoken to scientists/engineers personally who have studied and submitted reports on the matter?

Research the basics... metallurgy... specs of materials... steel beam construction... fireproofing...  temperatures of things burning. ...
welding.... etc.
  Do your own independent investigating from the available evidence only. 

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #683 on: March 15, 2015, 03:44:38 PM »
Research the basics... metallurgy... specs of materials... steel beam construction... fireproofing...  temperatures of things burning. ...
welding.... etc.
  Do your own independent investigating from the available evidence only.


Oh well, I asked twice what research pertaining to the event you'd done, and you won't tell me.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #684 on: March 15, 2015, 03:54:44 PM »
All I asked was what research you had done to arrive at your conclusions. I'm supposing it's credible and professionally validated with research papers.

I told you how I arrived at my conclusion.  By my professional qualifications as a Red Seal Journeyman Welder, and my work experience with fireproofing structural steel. As well as my further research into other physical evidence that is known.  Steel specs and other information like the temperature of burning jet fuel is very easy to find, and of the sort that doesn't really require peer reviewed research papers.  LOL

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #685 on: March 15, 2015, 03:56:25 PM »

Oh well, I asked twice what research pertaining to the event you'd done, and you won't tell me.

And what are your qualifications? and what peer reviewed research have you done to support your position?

And I am not pushing any theory or asking you to believe me. I am telling you to do your own research.   I am only stating I do not believe the "official" story, and that I have actual real world experience with these materials.  More experience than you I am sure.
 

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #686 on: March 15, 2015, 04:11:20 PM »
And what are your qualifications? and what peer reviewed research have you done to support your position?

And I am not pushing any theory or asking you to believe me. I am telling you to do your own research.   I am only stating I do not believe the "official" story, and that I have actual real world experience with these materials.  More experience than you I am sure.


I don't have a position. I don't need to prove a positive. I know you stated your professional qualifications which I have no reason to doubt; but you said you'd done actual research on the WTC collapse. I just wanted to know what that might be, independent to your own experiences, backed up with evidence that other qualified engineers/scientists have done. That's all.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #687 on: March 15, 2015, 04:39:17 PM »

I don't have a position. I don't need to prove a positive. I know you stated your professional qualifications which I have no reason to doubt; but you said you'd done actual research on the WTC collapse. I just wanted to know what that might be, independent to your own experiences, backed up with evidence that other qualified engineers/scientists have done. That's all.

You mean research like this?

 https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=steel+specs&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_en-GBCA498CA498&q=steel+specs+online&gs_l=hp..1.0l2j0i22i30l3.0.0.0.6794...........0.GTorIY4XoJs#hl=en-GB&q=structural+steel+specs&revid=1719845512

and this...

http://mepetroleum.com/jet_fuel.htm


Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #688 on: March 15, 2015, 05:23:18 PM »
Don't waste keystrokes on Pud. He's just an agitator. He plays the same annoying role in many different threads.

Re: The Official BellGab.com 9/11 Thread
« Reply #689 on: March 15, 2015, 05:24:39 PM »
Don't waste keystrokes on Pud. He's just an agitator. He plays the same annoying role in many different threads.
Dude, he's not even a merican.