Billy Meier - Michael Horn

[Yorkshire pud]

The kinds of sensible comments that are posted on my blog include clear-thinking examples such as this:

"Michael,

I’m not understanding the skeptics arguments against this evidence…are they saying that because another person theorized this before Billy published it that Billy must have somehow contacted that person to obtain the information? Or that Billy somehow had access to obscure science journals in foreign languages? It seems that the notion of ETs providing info to Billy is simply beyond the pale for these skeptics despite the photographic, video and physical evidence that supports their existence."

What pseudonym did you attach to that piece of self aggrandising shit? You don't even make an attempt to disguise its you. 

Keep trying Mucky...

[21st Century Man]

Michael Horn,  I used to take you a bit more seriously but then I found out you spend way too much time defending Billy Meier on Bellgab.  So what if the people here don't believe you?  Move on to somewhere else where you might be taken more seriously.  Go have sex with several of your groupies.  Forget about Bellgab.

[coaster]

Horn, you found a home, bud. No one gives a shit. You are fun.
You do need to realize though, the days of ufo, meier, silly shit is over. Art is gone. The days of good, fun radio...gone. We miss it as much as you do. Drop it and move on. Life goes on. Art is not coming back. Don't spend what's left doing this silly shit bud.
Honestly. Lost cause. Go fly a fucking kite. Its fun. Reinvent yourself. What happens when Meier dies? Do you win his estate? a fake arm, three bucks and a life of bullshit?
Michael Horn. Go live guy. I think you would make more with your exercise stuff. music. do that. we would support you.
You look young. yoga. If you have pride in yourself, reinvent. not hating,
-coaster

[MichaelHorn]

Hi Coaster,

As mentioned, I do several daily "tours" of various pro/con sites, videos, forums, generously updating. I think it takes me a combined time of about an hour out of my 10-hour day.

As also mentioned, these efforts sometimes bear interesting fruit (see my post on Monday, 08:48:06 PM).

And thanks, I find that T'ai Chi is overall a much better system for overall regenerative benefits than yoga, for a number of reasons, though I've done both (and taught yoga as well). But one has to apply the principles from the so-called "classics", which even a lot of T'ai Chi teachers don't fully understand.

There's also something I refer to as...emotional T'ai Chi, which accounts for the fact that I'm impossible to insult, ridiculously persevering and actually holding no ill will towards the immature and misinformed.

Hopefully, the wise among you (okay, that is a stretch, no pun intended) will learn and benefit.

[Yorkshire pud]

I'm impossible to insult, ridiculously persevering...

Hmmm, but you have no restraint in insulting those who don't tell you what you want to hear. If prospective disciples don't fall down and worship at the feet of Meier or you, you decide (because they're not persuaded) they're stupid, immature, cowards, or just uninformed. YOU have absolutely no idea what anyone's qualifications, life experiences, courage or intelligence are, unless they state they have them;  but then you go to dismiss them anyway, because , hey how could a PhD astronomy scientist possibly know about science?

You Mr Horn are the typical bullying narcissist; you simply have no time or investment in anyone who (with very good reason), states that you and Meier are charlatans and show you up by suspending you by your own petard. You cannot accept any notion that Meier is a lying, manipulative, deluded fantasist. You because of your compliance fall into that description. You're also a manipulative con man in the most insideous way too; attempting and no doubt succeeding in charming the more vulnerable and easily led because they're in a position where they need to believe they are beng cared for by a higher being or race; you and Meier are in short running a religious cult. And like the Moonies before you, are vile but no doubt completely plausable to those who need that crutch.

Perservering? No, you're psychotic. Deeply and troublingly disturbed.

[onan]

Perservering? No, you're psychotic. Deeply and troublingly disturbed.

Persevering is often seen in mental illness, combine that with beliefs that are far fetched and an unwillingness to question said beliefs just compounds the possibility.

[MichaelHorn]

Gosh, "have no time" for the anonymous, bitter and terminally self-loathing? Heck, I would think that my efforts and accomplishments - born of perseverance, optimism and capacity - would help to inspire.

But enough about me, since repetition is a basis for learning - and there are some awfully slow learners here! - I again present our lesson for the day, week, or whatever:

Billy Meier scooped scientists by specifically foretelling the “new” finding that “traveling outside that field exposes astronauts to a virtual firehose of particles that over time can damage tissue*.*”

In this documented conversation, from 1981, the Plejaren also go into further details, which we’ll certainly also read about one day as “new discoveries”, should we not completely destroy ourselves before we get that far:

Official Contact Report 150, Saturday, October 10, 1981

Billy: …But say again, you told me at that time, during my great journey (1975), about a serious illness that should be revealed in connection with space flight. You then said something about the fact that the people of the Earth would, very soon through their space flight experiments, find out that they could not pursue this primitive kind of space flight that is pursued by them without taking severe damage. If I remember correctly, you then told me that through this primitive earthly kind of space flight, the danger of an incurable illness exists for the would-be astronauts and that all those who had flown in space capsules over the Earth’s ozone layer were already infected. You then explained that something will happen with the brains of these people.

Quetzal: …Radiations, vibrations, and the like, unprotected missiles and similar protective suits, as well as the weightlessness of interstellar space lead to health damages in the brain and in the bones of humans and many other life forms. The first reaction of severe brain injury that I mentioned, for example, leads to barely detectable brain swelling in very slight cases, which will, after some time, lead to thought and action uncertainty and then inevitably result in reaction loss, such as, for example, the sudden loss of control of a vehicle or aircraft or the appearance of total errors against all reason. However, if a human or any other life form lingers for a very long time, such as many months or years, unprotected in weightlessness in space, then the initially developing brain swelling of an inflamed form will suddenly develop in reverse sequence, by which brain atrophy then develops, as with weak-thinking and elderly people. Even the brain substance itself suffers a loss**; thus, the entire brain mass passes through this phenomenon of a pathological nature. The illness originating from these factors ignites the brain substances and the brain organs themselves, after which a new, short-termed illness factor arises, which expresses itself as a decrease of brain activity, through a kind of cerebral palsy substance, which then leads to the general shrinkage of total brain mass, which can no longer be stopped by human and medical and other similar means. If the person lingers long enough unprotected and weightlessly in space, then the brain contraction ultimately leads to the point where the person loses absolute control over himself, his thinking, and actions and life. The ultimate end, then, is insanity and death.

*CORROBORATED:

Houston, We Have Another Problem, December, 2012

“As if space travel was not already filled with enough dangers, a new study out today in the journal PLOS ONE shows that cosmic radiation â€" which would bombard astronauts on deep space missions to places like Mars â€" could accelerate the onset of Alzheimer’s disease…The study out today for the first time examines the potential impact of space radiation on neurodegeneration, in particular, the biological processes in the brain that contribute to the development of Alzheimer’s disease.”

[Yorkshire pud]

Gosh, "have no time" for the anonymous, bitter and terminally self-loathing? Heck, I would think that my efforts and accomplishments - born of perseverance, optimism and capacity - would help to inspire.

But enough about me, since repetition is a basis for learning - and there are some awfully slow learners here! - I again present our lesson for the day, week, or whatever:

Billy Meier scooped scientists by specifically foretelling the “new” finding that “traveling outside that field exposes astronauts to a virtual firehose of particles that over time can damage tissue*.*”

In this documented conversation, from 1981, the Plejaren also go into further details, which we’ll certainly also read about one day as “new discoveries”, should we not completely destroy ourselves before we get that far:

Official Contact Report 150, Saturday, October 10, 1981

Billy: …But say again, you told me at that time, during my great journey (1975), about a serious illness that should be revealed in connection with space flight. You then said something about the fact that the people of the Earth would, very soon through their space flight experiments, find out that they could not pursue this primitive kind of space flight that is pursued by them without taking severe damage. If I remember correctly, you then told me that through this primitive earthly kind of space flight, the danger of an incurable illness exists for the would-be astronauts and that all those who had flown in space capsules over the Earth’s ozone layer were already infected. You then explained that something will happen with the brains of these people.

Quetzal: …Radiations, vibrations, and the like, unprotected missiles and similar protective suits, as well as the weightlessness of interstellar space lead to health damages in the brain and in the bones of humans and many other life forms. The first reaction of severe brain injury that I mentioned, for example, leads to barely detectable brain swelling in very slight cases, which will, after some time, lead to thought and action uncertainty and then inevitably result in reaction loss, such as, for example, the sudden loss of control of a vehicle or aircraft or the appearance of total errors against all reason. However, if a human or any other life form lingers for a very long time, such as many months or years, unprotected in weightlessness in space, then the initially developing brain swelling of an inflamed form will suddenly develop in reverse sequence, by which brain atrophy then develops, as with weak-thinking and elderly people. Even the brain substance itself suffers a loss**; thus, the entire brain mass passes through this phenomenon of a pathological nature. The illness originating from these factors ignites the brain substances and the brain organs themselves, after which a new, short-termed illness factor arises, which expresses itself as a decrease of brain activity, through a kind of cerebral palsy substance, which then leads to the general shrinkage of total brain mass, which can no longer be stopped by human and medical and other similar means. If the person lingers long enough unprotected and weightlessly in space, then the brain contraction ultimately leads to the point where the person loses absolute control over himself, his thinking, and actions and life. The ultimate end, then, is insanity and death.

*CORROBORATED:

Houston, We Have Another Problem, December, 2012

“As if space travel was not already filled with enough dangers, a new study out today in the journal PLOS ONE shows that cosmic radiation â€" which would bombard astronauts on deep space missions to places like Mars â€" could accelerate the onset of Alzheimer’s disease…The study out today for the first time examines the potential impact of space radiation on neurodegeneration, in particular, the biological processes in the brain that contribute to the development of Alzheimer’s disease.”

QED.

[MH is a Liar]

Hey Michael, when was this "documented conversation" actually published?  Don't you think that is some relevant information here?

[MichaelHorn]

German, 1981. English translation:

Copyright 1982/1996 by Eduard Meier ‘free Interest Community for Borderline-and Spirit Sciences and Ufology Studies’ Semjase-Silver-Star-Center CH - 8495 Schmidruetti ZH.  No part of this work, no photos and other presented pictures, no slides, films, videos and no other publications or other materials etc. are allowed to be reproduced without express written permission of the copyright holder in any form (photo copy, microfilm or any other process), as also not for purposes of education etc. and are also not permitted to be utilized, duplicated, or distributed in the use of electronic systems.

Published by Wassermannzeit - Publisher ‘Free Interest Community’, Semjase-Silver-Star-Center, CH 8495-Hinterschmidrueti ZH.

Printed by: Printing Service, D-86165 Augsburg

[MH is a Liar]

Disregard last question, I found the answer.

http://ufoprophet.blogspot.in/2016/10/new-discovery-black-hole-found.html#axzz4MjxljZI6


New Discovery!!!  Black hole found wandering in Michael Horn's brain!!!

[MH is a Liar]

Ok, thanks for response. 

However, this is from the link I posted:

Here MH claims that Meier has published information on the negative effects of space travel for the first time in 1981 (150th contact) which however was only corroborated by scientists decades later in 2012 and 2016 (35 years later). This, according to MH, proves Meier is in contact with extraterrestrials.

Rebuttal:

When did Meier first verifiably publish this information?

Meier only published this information in Semjase Kontakt Berichte, 2nd ed. Vol. 11 in 1994 and not in 1981 as MH wanted all of us to believe. We already know too much regarding his fradulent tactics to fall for them. Even now, MH could still argue that Meier has preemptively published his information first in 1994 i.e. 18 years or 22 years before scientists confirmed it. Could it be true?

As it turns out, many papers and articles have been published about the impact of space travel on the human body and the especially the brain. Following is an excerpt from the Lawrence Journal World newspaper from June 8, 1963:

“Hallucinations, impaired judgment and permanent brain and bone damage are possible hazards of prolonged space flight scientists say.”

News article referring to other negative effects can be read here on BMUFOR.


Read more: http://ufoprophet.blogspot.com/2016/10/new-discovery-black-hole-found.html#ixzz4N0r3FtCT
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Without yet having looked deeply into the matter, considering each's trackrecord, I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess ufoprophet.blogspot is correct...

[MichaelHorn]

Let’s see if this bit of helpful instruction is…helpful

I first read the information in 1986, at Randy Winter’s office on Westwood Blvd. in L.A. He had the…1981 publication. It was in the first edition of the Prophetien. Winters probably still has it.

Now, when a new scientific report comes out reporting something as…new, it’s because they don’t consider it theoretical, speculative, “possible”, etc. And, as always, Meier’s information is specific, factual and usually encompasses even MORE, which is then often later verified as well, as is the case here.

And since - IN EVERY CASE - the skeptics CAN’T establish the MMO (means, motive and opportunity) for ANY of their idiotic claims that Meier copied ANY information that they CAN’T place with him, etc., I would advise not considering any “research”, i.e. failed debiunking attempts as anything other than cynical, selfâ€"seeking diversions.

People are free to think whatever they want but wild claims that Meier was backdating information - that I already read in the 1980s! - is absurd. They also can't ever answer why Meier is NEVER the person to draw attention to all of his prophetically accurate information...like an actual "hoaxer" would, and which would speak to the "motive" part of MMO.

Since the skeptics are really the rankest of amateurs, eschewing the absolute necessity of showing that a man, living in a remote part of Switzerland, in the pre-computer age, had access to information - not even available at the time! - just imagine if you were charged with a crime that you didn’t and COUDN’T have committed, and the necessity of showing that you had the MMO was completely disregarded by some ambitious prosecutor whose agenda didn’t prioritize the truth.

This is why those skeptics really have zero credible, credentialed supporters, thinkers, etc., just a bunch of armchair experts who also know nothing about investigation, burden of proof, preponderance of evidence, circumstantial evidence, weighing of evidence, etc. There’s nothing wrong with being skeptical…but to rely on the poorest of criticisms is to give no credence to one’s own skeptical claims.

In real simple language, Meier didn’t have any of the tools that people today do…and yet no one today even attempts to bring forward comparable claims, evidence, etc.

Just apply real, logic, testable standards and…the truth prevails.

[Yorkshire pud]

Let’s see if this bit of helpful instruction is…helpful

I first read the information in 1986, at Randy Winter’s office on Westwood Blvd. in L.A. He had the…1981 publication. It was in the first edition of the Prophetien. Winters probably still has it.

Now, when a new scientific report comes out reporting something as…new, it’s because they don’t consider it theoretical, speculative, “possible”, etc. And, as always, Meier’s information is specific, factual and usually encompasses even MORE, which is then often later verified as well, as is the case here.

And since - IN EVERY CASE - the skeptics CAN’T establish the MMO (means, motive and opportunity) for ANY of their idiotic claims that Meier copied ANY information that they CAN’T place with him, etc., I would advise not considering any “research”, i.e. failed debiunking attempts as anything other than cynical, selfâ€"seeking diversions.

People are free to think whatever they want but wild claims that Meier was backdating information - that I already read in the 1980s! -

Yeah, because you're the independent and unimpeachable source!

is absurd. They also can't ever answer why Meier is NEVER the person to draw attention to all of his prophetically accurate information...like an actual "hoaxer" would, and which would speak to the "motive" part of MMO.

He doesn't need to, you run a website to promote it! Doh!

Since the skeptics are really the rankest of amateurs, eschewing the absolute necessity of showing that a man, living in a remote part of Switzerland, in the pre-computer age, had access to information - not even available at the time! - just imagine if you were charged with a crime that you didn’t and COUDN’T have committed, and the necessity of showing that you had the MMO was completely disregarded by some ambitious prosecutor whose agenda didn’t prioritize the truth.

This is why those skeptics really have zero credible, credentialed supporters, thinkers, etc., just a bunch of armchair experts who also know nothing about investigation, burden of proof, preponderance of evidence, circumstantial evidence, weighing of evidence, etc. There’s nothing wrong with being skeptical…but to rely on the poorest of criticisms is to give no credence to one’s own skeptical claims.

Yeah, the sceptics just get hung up on bin lid spaceships, cooking foil ray guns, unclear photos, dodgy video of suspended models, plagarised book pages, television shows videotaped and sundry other obvious bullshit. If only they didn't eh?

In real simple language, Meier didn’t have any of the tools that people today do…and yet no one today even attempts to bring forward comparable claims, evidence, etc.

Just apply real, logic, testable standards and…the truth prevails.

Real logic says you and he run a cult that attempts to prey on the guillible and/or vulnerable. You and he have zero credibility and little in the way of scruples. Just present the space people on live television with their spaceships in front of an independent audience and all this can be laid to rest. When you going to do that?

[MH is a Liar]

So why do you lie about when things were published?  Whether you personally want to believe Meier had those conversations on those dates, and whether you think you read them way back when... well, that is a heckuva lot different than him actually publishing them on those dates as you continually try to pass it off as. 

If the case is true, why do continually misrepresent the evidence?  And are you going to correct your recent black hole article now that you know it is all complete nonsense?  Of course you will not.  Because, despite how breathtakingly stupid and wholly misleading that article is, your followers somehow accept it as a "corroboration" because you framed it as such.  Why let truth and accuracy get in the way of a good "corroboration" eh, Michael?  (Ugh, again despite how obviously, embarrassingly erroneous that entire blog post is... god, these figuians...man, really bottom of the barrel intellects you got over there Mikey).

People are free to think whatever they want but wild claims that Meier was backdating information - that I already read in the 1980s! - is absurd.

You disgust me.  I could demonstrate to you numerous instances of backdating.  And you know this.  I think we have already went over a few in this thread.  Yet you lie lie lie.  Really despicable stuff Michael.  Who do you think you are fooling???  No one here obviously.  No backdating...ha, what a joke.  Do you want me to provide again a handful of these examples?  No, you don't, and you'll just lie about it somehow anyway even though the proof will be staring you in the face.  Instead, I'll just post this info from the link I posted previously.  Pretty humorous, and spot-on.

A special team of neuroscientists, hurried from across the world to probe Michael Horn's (MH) imploding brain, made a stunning discovery -  the presence of a wandering black hole. They reported that many of the Michael's personality traits (rather disorders), exhibited both in online and real world, can be traced back to this malady. Some of these traits include:

Chronic fact deficiency
Truth-Intolerant
Acquired logic deficiency syndrome
Compulsive lying disorder
Histrionic personality disorder
Narcissistic personality disorder
Adult-bully syndrome
Little-man syndrome
Post-debunking denial disorder
Allergic to fact-checking
Aversion to skepticism
Stage 4 Self-deception
Messiah complex
Galileo Complex
Intellectile dysfunction
Rationalize-anything syndrome
Reason deficit hyperquack disorder
Conspiracy-tract infection*
Chronic fallacy malignancy
Science-resistant sclerosis


Read more: http://ufoprophet.blogspot.com/#ixzz4N6yY6brn
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MMO -- that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.  In fact, the link I just offered covered this.  Meier has an extensive library.   You think books and periodicals didn't exist pre-internet???  Means...books and periodicals.  Opportunity...ummm, I would assume Meier was reading and writing openly, not real difficult there.  Motive...why don't you tell us Michael?  Why do you lie about the evidence?   Well, actually, assuming you are in fact fooled by Meier, I guess you and him could have slightly different motives.  But presumably his motive is similar to all other cult leaders, e.g., fame, money, to be perceived as someone really really important. 

MMO...ha, what a damn joke.  Any other zingers for me?

[MichaelHorn]

Ah, my sad, fearful, self-loathing friend, come, step out into the light with your brilliant (copy/paste) sophistry saturated assertions, own it all in your own name!

Why not? If you’ve revealed the “hoax of the century”, step forward, receive your due, let your name and face be glorified, an inspiration to truth tellers everywhere!

Come, do that and have your convoluted, concocted claims sliced and diced and fed to you, while all see you in your naked ignorance and shame.

Confront your own impotence, it’s apparent to all anyway, but put your name and face to it, show…yourself that you’re not the angry, spiteful coward who despises their own lack of contribution, accomplishment, their failure to actually…uplift any segment of humanity.

You can bring no one down…why not try to bring yourself up, and forsake the putrid stench of your own non-evolving stagnation?

Remain not a pitiful, anonymous no-thing. Breathe the air that the open, courageous and self-heroic breathe.

Squander not the opportunity, lest your self-created vengeance overtake you before you actually…live.

[Yorkshire pud]

Ah, my sad, fearful, self-loathing friend, come, step out into the light with your brilliant (copy/paste) sophistry saturated assertions, own it all in your own name!

Why not? If you’ve revealed the “hoax of the century”, step forward, receive your due, let your name and face be glorified, an inspiration to truth tellers everywhere!

Come, do that and have your convoluted, concocted claims sliced and diced and fed to you, while all see you in your naked ignorance and shame.

Confront your own impotence, it’s apparent to all anyway, but put your name and face to it, show…yourself that you’re not the angry, spiteful coward who despises their own lack of contribution, accomplishment, their failure to actually…uplift any segment of humanity.

You can bring no one down…why not try to bring yourself up, and forsake the putrid stench of your own non-evolving stagnation?

Remain not a pitiful, anonymous no-thing. Breathe the air that the open, courageous and self-heroic breathe.

Squander not the opportunity, lest your self-created vengeance overtake you before you actually…live.

Yes yes, but when are you going to present your space friends on tv? Soon?

[MH is a Liar]

Hoax of the century?  How many followers does Billy Meier have?  Receive my due glory?  Here is what would happen if I, Mr. MH is a Liar, proudly and loudly announced to the world that 'I have debunked the Meier case!' :

... crickets...

...crickets...

From the crowd: "Dude, that thing was debunked a long time ago."

Me:  "Oh yeah, good point.  Never mind, sorry to bother you."

That would be the extent of my due glory.   What is new is how comprehensively Meier has been debunked, and how numerous your exposed lies.

Why do you keep changing the subject?   You are the one that keeps coming posting links to your word vomit.  When I mop it all up, you get mad at me for not wearing a name tag?

If you want to slice and dice my claims, go ahead, nothing is stopping you.  Here, hows about this, we'll leave your wildly contradictory and (purposefully?) misleading black hole post for now, and just slice and dice this one for me por favor:

In 1958, Meier was supposedly warned about one of his coming enemies, the "German central for ufological works."  This contact was first published in 1978.

However, in the same verse of the same contact in the 2002 edition of the publication, this enemy was named as "MUFON." 
This is discussed here: http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/prophecies-predictions-probability-calculations/analysis-of-contact-reports-1-100/#Arab-Israeli_Conflict_MUFON

Now, I know you like to to declare this as one of your "corroborations" -- Meier named MUFON before it existed!   But, you see, he did no such thing, MUFON is only mentioned in 2002.  So, are you lying when you claim this as a corroboration, or did you just not know about this discrepancy?  You just assumed that key word, "MUFON," was in the earlier texts and didn't bother to check before making an ass of yourself?

In either case, now that you definitely know, you will take this off your list of corroborations right?  (No, you won't, because if that was the protocol there would be no more list).  You will at least concede that this is evidence of backdating right?  Well, it's not even just "evidence" of it, it is a full fledged example of backdating.  And that is just one of many.  I could keep giving you more, there are apparently dozens and dozens at the website linked above.

So now, you will at least quit saying there is no evidence for backdating right?   Or are you going to slice and dice this claim for me somehow where you come out as honest and Meier comes out not as a backdater?

[SredniVashtar]

Ah, my sad, fearful, self-loathing friend, come, step out into the light with your brilliant (copy/paste) sophistry saturated assertions, own it all in your own name!

If you ever got together and did a podcast with George Senda I confidently predict the universe would explode under the weight of your combined self-regard and retardation. I know you can't help looking like a penis, but you don't also have to be such a petulant knobhead in word and deed. At some point you will arrive at the realisation that you have wasted your life pimping out a one-armed con-artist, after which you will - with any luck - blow your phallic head off.

I hope this message finds you well. As for that stuff about hiding behind fake names, I quite agree.

Regards

Scorpion de Rooftrouser

[MichaelHorn]

Re MUFON, take a moment, or a day, and carefully consider if that's...your final answer.

After all, your (er, non-existent anonymous) reputation rests on it.

So there's no misunderstanding, you're committed to and standing behind your assertion (copied/pasted) that Meier backdated it.

Are you ready to put your $100, full disclosure, hokey wager forth again?

I'm assuming you are.

I'll be back perhaps tomorrow to confirm your answer and, again, invite you to fulfill your offer, etc.

[Yorkshire pud]

Re MUFON, take a moment, or a day, and carefully consider if that's...your final answer.

After all, your (er, non-existent anonymous) reputation rests on it.

So there's no misunderstanding, you're committed to and standing behind your assertion (copied/pasted) that Meier backdated it.

Are you ready to put your $100, full disclosure, hokey wager forth again?

I'm assuming you are.

I'll be back perhaps tomorrow to confirm your answer and, again, invite you to fulfill your offer, etc.

When are you putting your spaceship friends on live television? Roughly?

[MH is a Liar]

No, the $100 not on the table.  I made that offer because I was confident you lied about writing article about '50's letters because I had asked you to produce it a dozen times to no avail.

Here, I am not quite so confident, especially considering  your response.  But, I would be really intrigued if you could demonstrate Meier really did speak of MUFON back before it's existence.  Perhaps you would begin to convince me of authenticity and I would owe you some big apologies potentially...after all, if you got the goods here, this would indeed be a really impressive feat on Meier's part.  A head scratcher for sure.

But, frankly, my hopes are not high, because this would mean BMUFOR was lying or committed a big error but it seems to be the case that those blunders usually only come from your end.  But, no, no money this time for aforementioned reason.  But I assume you don't promote Meier for the money, but because you think it is a good and worthy cause.  So, please, do share. 

[mahigitam]

Re MUFON, take a moment, or a day, and carefully consider if that's...your final answer.

After all, your (er, non-existent anonymous) reputation rests on it.

So there's no misunderstanding, you're committed to and standing behind your assertion (copied/pasted) that Meier backdated it.

Are you ready to put your $100, full disclosure, hokey wager forth again?

I'm assuming you are.

I'll be back perhaps tomorrow to confirm your answer and, again, invite you to fulfill your offer, etc.

I am ready to put my $100. Are you? Bring forward your evidence. But again I highly doubt what criteria you are going to measure your evidence with. Would it be proof beyond reasonable doubt? But then again, question arises whether you even understand what it means? Or is the proof something along the lines of your fraudulent Ice man prophetic claim? I am pretty sure that I am going to win it. So why not both of us send $100 to a middle neutral person. What do you say? Do you have anyone in your mind?

[MichaelHorn]

Okay, the fact is that Mahesh is wrong. This is from the Feb. 3, 1956 contact:

228. The UFOLOGY, already mentioned, which actually was supposed to serve in the spreading of truth, will be pressed into this direction as well and will gain worldwide meaning in this regard.

229. Like the religions themselves UFOLOGY will become a religious means of power for the malicious extraterrestrial intelligence.

230. And only during the year of 1975 it will happen, that to the most important organization, which concerns itself with the research regarding extraterrestrial space flying objects and with extraterrestrial lifeforms, the first pointers can be given of their incorrect direction.

231. Withing this globally important organization, which is located on the European continent you call Germany, several persons have already become known, who allegedly have contacts with extraterrestrial lifeforms.

232. Among these persons is also the already mentioned ‘hot dog’ salesman, originating from the area of California in America and who, within an extremely short time span, will be considered to be the most important man in matters of UFOLOGY.

And this is from the contact of Feb. 7, 1956:

70. But the fight for the truth will be very hard because you will have to fight against the lack of understanding and lack of reason of sectarian ufological groups, and so forth, who are strongly anchored in the religious and in pseudo-sciences.

71. In regard to that, take note especially of the coming worldwide organisation for ufological work, MUFON, because - along with various pathological know-it-alls and slanderers of truth - it will be your greatest adversary.

…which also includes:

75. At the beginning of the second half of the year 1975 the German ufological study community, DUIST, will lead the first strike against you.

Notice the different dates and sentence numbers.

Mahesh has indeed lied, starting with his plead for donations of money and Meier’s books, etc., to “archive” and he is creating his own destiny.

He’s also lied about tons of other prophetically accurate information. For instance, the first item that spun my head around was an article in a newspaper I read in 1988 about Lawrence Livermore Labs announcing a “new” discovery” about the specific connection between the damage to the ozone layer and atomic explosions, etc. Since I had already read the information, in 1986, in some of Meier’s 1975 Contact reports - in which it’s also mentioned that he knew about the ozone damage in the 1950s, which is indeed in the 1951 letter - it was obvious that Mahesh had an agenda other than the truth.

While he may think that my direct experience - as well as that of many other people who also read the original Contact Reports at a time when he was probably still in diapers - is superseded by his amateurish work, it simply isn’t the case. So many of the things that I called “prophetically accurate scientific information” were in those earliest translations. Let’s also remember that we only have about 1/6 of Meier’s transcripts in English.

Another of the major ones was the connection between the extraction of petroleum, gas and ores and earthquakes and, as Semjase put it, “the Earth collapses in on itself”…which we call sinkholes, etc. Future quakes will also be tied to over-built cities and large dams, as she also told Meier in 1976. I read it in 1986. No computers, no internet and all of these things were at best theoretical, or non-existent, in the minds of scientists. Since I was living in a communication center, L.A., certainly I should have come in contact with all of these things…if they were indeed known and being published openly, which they weren’t.

The list literally goes on and on and that’s why Mahesh has also rigorously avoided and tried to ridicule the very legitimate demand that he actually, credibly show the…MMO. Unfortunately the deceitful illogic of his avoidance has been somewhat contagious among people all too ready to attack Meier…for reasons still completely unknown to me.

It’s not enough, obviously, to say that “someone owns and reads books, etc.”. If one is to be credible, let alone taken seriously as a researcher, they MUST show the actual links in the chain. As I’ve said many times, people’s lives have been determined by such things, their reputations made or broken. So while the internet allows any and everyone who woke up at 3:00 in the morning with indigestion to vent their spleen because it’s so easy to do, this same ease creates damage that spreads far and wide and can be very destructive…especially when it can prevent people from being actually WARNED about devastating events that can ultimately greatly affect them and their lives.

But there are lots of clever wannabes who jump on the opportunity to mislead people for their own gain, profit, celebrity, etc. Trying to make this points to the internet generation is like trying to explain to fish that they live in water.

Another point or two, Mahesh has never actually gone to investigate - let alone confront - Meier and many of the 125+ witnesses. Why not? I’ve been there 17 times…and tried to trick Meier 4 times in 3 years to see if he was lying. And while Mahesh sits around trying to gather followers to his cult, and accuses me of all sorts of non-existent lies, resorts to attacks, caricatures, etc., he also forgets that I’m one of the 125+ plus eyewitnesses, one of the closest in fact, having been within 20’ of a monitoring craft in the mountains of Brazil. I don’t mention it often since it’s…anecdotal. Meier’s experiences and evidence aren’t. He’s taken over 1,200 clear, primarily daytime, UFO photos, films, video, etc., and yet Mahesh  - in utterly contemptible dishonesty - tries to make this the “Billy Meier Space Photo Case’, which it obviously isn’t.

So he would like to convince people that the BEST evidence the world has ever seen…is the same as no evidence.

Now it hardly matters to me since I know what my work is and I do it. But really, for the people on forums like this who actually buy into and vigorously (and viciously) promote such pathetic, inept, inaccurate, dishonest attacks, I do wonder how they’ve fallen for such stuff. Of course I do realize that these times are full of cynicism, superficiality, instant gratification, quick “answers” from the internet, etc. - and no shortage of people who want to be “famous” even just for being famous.

No one cares about your money; you had made a wager and I can always point out what was wrong there.

However, and more importantly, if you really have the integrity to even say, “Maybe I ‘m wrong”, my response is, “Okay. Now, do you have any other questions?"

[MH is a Liar]

I do have some further questions, thank you sir.

First, I don't understand why the Feb. 3 contact is relevant?

Second, all you have done is simply repeated your assertion, i.e., that Meier named MUFON back in 50's, but you have not brought any further evidence to the table.  Yes, I am aware that the contact report SAYS 1956 on it, but I am telling you there is no evidence it was distributed then.  And further, the word "MUFON" wasn't in the earliest verifiable publications of this contact, but not until the 2002 edition.  That is, this bit was inserted only in later editions and thus effectively "backdated", falsely giving a prophetic appearance.

So the question is, do you have a copyrighted item that has the word "MUFON" in it sometime before that organization was created...? This is, after all, what you have been purporting or implying, yes? 

Unlike you apparently, Mahesh actually does have the old books, so maybe he can double check what he reported at his website, and then perhaps post a photo to show that the word MUFON is indeed missing.  And, if it is missing in the early editions, but found only in the later, then you will concede this is "backdating", yes?  This is what we have been meaning by the term, I thought?   (And if he does produce this, then perhaps you are the one in need of apologizing to him for calling him a liar?)

I have questions for other parts of your post, but one thing at a time...

[MH is a Liar]

PS - I just quickly looked into your ozone bit.  A glance through the ever-helpful BMUFOR website produced this: 

Billy Meier representative Michael Horn has published an article â€" Proof beyond a reasonable doubt â€" in which he presented the following news articles as evidence of Meier/ETs advanced scientific knowledge on the effects of nuclear explosions on ozone layer:

“Corroborated: November 29, 1988, published report from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories announced this “new discovery”: ATOM BOMB TESTING TIED TO OZONE DEPLETION, 13 years after Meier had already published it..

Corroborated: Los Angeles Times, February 24, 1992: OZONE HOLE DAMAGES FOOD CHAIN, confirming the connection between the UV passing through the ozone hole and genetic mutations and damage to the food chain.”

However the following quotes from newspapers and a magazine from 1974 clearly shows that the negative effects of atom bombs/nuclear explosions on ozone layer and life was already known before Meier allegedly received information about it in 1975.

U.S. Official Warns Of Ozone Depletion From Nuclear War (New York Times, pg. 1, September 6, 1974)
(Original article issued by U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency on which the above New York Times article is based on, can be accessed here)

“The potential depletion of the ozone layer by nuclear explosions is a new, accidental discovery that arms control officials believe adds an awesome element to the destructive effects of a nuclear war”

“… perhaps it would destroy critical links of the intricate food chain of plants and animals, and thus shatter the ecological structure that permits man and animals to remain alive on this planet.”

Pentagon Replies On Peril To Ozone (New York Times, pg. 7, October 17, 1974)

“The Defense Department estimates that an all-out nuclear war would significantly deplete the protective layer of ozone in the stratosphere but not to the point of endangering the continuance of life on earth.”

“… two University of California scientists (…) contend that there was a 4 percent depletion in the ozone layer as a result of 1961-62 explosions.”

Stratospheric Pollution: Multiple Threats to Earth’s Ozone (Science, pg. 335-338, v.186, no. 4161, October 25, 1974)

“Supersonic transports, aerosol sprays, and nuclear weapons (…) are all potential sources of catalytic agents that penetrate the earth’s stratosphere and decompose the ozone that shields living things from the worst of the sun’s ultraviolet radiation (…) High intensities of this ultraviolet radiation are harmful to nearly all forms of life (…) An increased incidence of mutation has been observed in certain [plants] (…) There are also some indications that increased radiation will interfere with the growth of plankton in the ocean (…) The controversial evidence is thus that the 1961-1962 bomb tests resulted in a moderate, transient reduction of ozone.”

Now I see why you always put "new discovery" in quotes, it's because you simply deem them "new discoveries" if it suits your dishonest purpose.   Ok, I guess I can be more charitable here though, instead of conscious lies, I'll assume you were yet again just mistaken regarding the newness of the thing.  Although, on the other hand, given you have never once went back and corrected even one of the countless of your erroneous statements, maybe you don't deserve the benefit of the doubt here...

[henge0stone]

Okay, the fact is that Mahesh is wrong. This is from the Feb. 3, 1956 contact:

228. The UFOLOGY, already mentioned, which actually was supposed to serve in the spreading of truth, will be pressed into this direction as well and will gain worldwide meaning in this regard.

229. Like the religions themselves UFOLOGY will become a religious means of power for the malicious extraterrestrial intelligence.

230. And only during the year of 1975 it will happen, that to the most important organization, which concerns itself with the research regarding extraterrestrial space flying objects and with extraterrestrial lifeforms, the first pointers can be given of their incorrect direction.

231. Withing this globally important organization, which is located on the European continent you call Germany, several persons have already become known, who allegedly have contacts with extraterrestrial lifeforms.

232. Among these persons is also the already mentioned ‘hot dog’ salesman, originating from the area of California in America and who, within an extremely short time span, will be considered to be the most important man in matters of UFOLOGY.

And this is from the contact of Feb. 7, 1956:

70. But the fight for the truth will be very hard because you will have to fight against the lack of understanding and lack of reason of sectarian ufological groups, and so forth, who are strongly anchored in the religious and in pseudo-sciences.

71. In regard to that, take note especially of the coming worldwide organisation for ufological work, MUFON, because - along with various pathological know-it-alls and slanderers of truth - it will be your greatest adversary.

…which also includes:

75. At the beginning of the second half of the year 1975 the German ufological study community, DUIST, will lead the first strike against you.

Notice the different dates and sentence numbers.

Mahesh has indeed lied, starting with his plead for donations of money and Meier’s books, etc., to “archive” and he is creating his own destiny.

He’s also lied about tons of other prophetically accurate information. For instance, the first item that spun my head around was an article in a newspaper I read in 1988 about Lawrence Livermore Labs announcing a “new” discovery” about the specific connection between the damage to the ozone layer and atomic explosions, etc. Since I had already read the information, in 1986, in some of Meier’s 1975 Contact reports - in which it’s also mentioned that he knew about the ozone damage in the 1950s, which is indeed in the 1951 letter - it was obvious that Mahesh had an agenda other than the truth.

While he may think that my direct experience - as well as that of many other people who also read the original Contact Reports at a time when he was probably still in diapers - is superseded by his amateurish work, it simply isn’t the case. So many of the things that I called “prophetically accurate scientific information” were in those earliest translations. Let’s also remember that we only have about 1/6 of Meier’s transcripts in English.

Another of the major ones was the connection between the extraction of petroleum, gas and ores and earthquakes and, as Semjase put it, “the Earth collapses in on itself”…which we call sinkholes, etc. Future quakes will also be tied to over-built cities and large dams, as she also told Meier in 1976. I read it in 1986. No computers, no internet and all of these things were at best theoretical, or non-existent, in the minds of scientists. Since I was living in a communication center, L.A., certainly I should have come in contact with all of these things…if they were indeed known and being published openly, which they weren’t.

The list literally goes on and on and that’s why Mahesh has also rigorously avoided and tried to ridicule the very legitimate demand that he actually, credibly show the…MMO. Unfortunately the deceitful illogic of his avoidance has been somewhat contagious among people all too ready to attack Meier…for reasons still completely unknown to me.

It’s not enough, obviously, to say that “someone owns and reads books, etc.”. If one is to be credible, let alone taken seriously as a researcher, they MUST show the actual links in the chain. As I’ve said many times, people’s lives have been determined by such things, their reputations made or broken. So while the internet allows any and everyone who woke up at 3:00 in the morning with indigestion to vent their spleen because it’s so easy to do, this same ease creates damage that spreads far and wide and can be very destructive…especially when it can prevent people from being actually WARNED about devastating events that can ultimately greatly affect them and their lives.

But there are lots of clever wannabes who jump on the opportunity to mislead people for their own gain, profit, celebrity, etc. Trying to make this points to the internet generation is like trying to explain to fish that they live in water.

Another point or two, Mahesh has never actually gone to investigate - let alone confront - Meier and many of the 125+ witnesses. Why not? I’ve been there 17 times…and tried to trick Meier 4 times in 3 years to see if he was lying. And while Mahesh sits around trying to gather followers to his cult, and accuses me of all sorts of non-existent lies, resorts to attacks, caricatures, etc., he also forgets that I’m one of the 125+ plus eyewitnesses, one of the closest in fact, having been within 20’ of a monitoring craft in the mountains of Brazil. I don’t mention it often since it’s…anecdotal. Meier’s experiences and evidence aren’t. He’s taken over 1,200 clear, primarily daytime, UFO photos, films, video, etc., and yet Mahesh  - in utterly contemptible dishonesty - tries to make this the “Billy Meier Space Photo Case’, which it obviously isn’t.

So he would like to convince people that the BEST evidence the world has ever seen…is the same as no evidence.

Now it hardly matters to me since I know what my work is and I do it. But really, for the people on forums like this who actually buy into and vigorously (and viciously) promote such pathetic, inept, inaccurate, dishonest attacks, I do wonder how they’ve fallen for such stuff. Of course I do realize that these times are full of cynicism, superficiality, instant gratification, quick “answers” from the internet, etc. - and no shortage of people who want to be “famous” even just for being famous.

No one cares about your money; you had made a wager and I can always point out what was wrong there.

However, and more importantly, if you really have the integrity to even say, “Maybe I ‘m wrong”, my response is, “Okay. Now, do you have any other questions?"

[MichaelHorn]

Apparently thinking one is at the center of the universe, that everything must be - unlike REAL life - nice and tidy for the newly born "internet geniuses", in a body of work of more than 26,000 pages, most of which was in deed PUBLISHED, disseminated, etc., before the computer, internet, etc., is a sad characteristic for the unthinking among you, which is clearly the majority.

Crazy assertions that Meier backdated information - despite subsequent contacts (such as re the Iceman) following sequentially and the mind-numbing, conspiratorial, cynical machinations attributed to Meier simply because they foment in the mind of skeptics - is what you prefer.

Demands of proof when not a one of you actually knows anything about this complex case, are both ignorant and arrogant. If you do prefer to attribute to Meier such a complicated, mammoth effort - an effort that would be GENIUS in itself - to fool a relative handful of clumsy know-it-alls, to whom I've been more than generous with my time, then...so be it.

Meanwhile, life moves on, reality confirms and corroborates Meier - yet again - and I'll content myself to simply post updates such as this:

BillyLeaks Beats WikiLeaks by Two Years

http://theyflyblog.com/?p=4109

UFO contractee warned about Ukraine, the IS, Qatar, etc., BEFORE Assange, whistleblowers

...and let the dwindling members of skeptical cults gloat amongst themselves about how smart they are to utter doubts and challenges for the kind of "proof" they couldn't provide that they even had breakfast yesterday.

I will add that poor Mahesh would better spend his time trying to prevent ending up being one of the recipients of the utter destruction of the New Delhi area, when the Chinese destroy it, and many of you will be caught in the crossfire of either the coming US civl wars, or incinerated in the US provoked nuclear war with Russia. I don't worry about it though because in your little universe, all you have to do is press DELETE and reality itself disappears.

Then you will be truly...anonymous.

[MH is a Liar]

What???  Really?  Nothing?  After that cocksure initial response about the MUFON info, and then...nothing???  We don't need Mahesh to even post the photo, you are conceding backdating?  Weird.  What the hell did you think you would be able to collect the 100$ for?  I'm so confused.  Your sheer ineptitude is perplexing sometimes.

I mean, can't say I'm surprised, because it is 100% clear that Meier is a hoaxer and you a liar, but that big talk yesterday made me think you maybe had at least a little something up your sleeve... but no, just more distraction and misdirection huh, without conceding your mistake/lie.  What else is new...

BTW, it's not that I expect everything to be super tidy.  Its just I assume if you are going to boldly declare Meier prophetically predicted x, y, and z - and that this is proven "scientifically" or to the "legal standard of proof" etc - I assumed you would be able to show it.  Errr... seems pretty reasonable to me dontchya think?

Actually, I didn't really assume you'd be able to demonstrate it of course, because obviously I have looked into many of your lies, and not one of these claims for prophecy has checked out.  Again, I'm not demanding a perfectly flawless 26,000 pages, but if you are going to claim 200+ corroborations and cannot produce even one that is legit...well... then you're the definition of a conman and should probably adjust your rhetoric should you truly not be intending to be one.

Yes I am the "conspiratorial" one for thinking Meier backdates (after having just proved he backdates), and you are the sane and reality-based non-conspiratorial one who thinks the whole world is out to suppress his message (a message which contains claims that been debunked a gazillion times in this thread alone)...  ha.  gimme a fuckin break...You are a crack up, Horn!

Yes, yes, move along, change the subject, post link to another BS "corroboration" in the hopes that people forget that your prior BS claim was completely debunked and you were exposed as a liar yet again...(not that anyone here is being fooled by this nonsense of course).   

Ugh, I may be over this.  No fun arguing with a psychopath.  It's not very satisfying if every time you get caught in a lie/misstatement, instead of acknowledging and conceding and correcting the point, you just insult the person who successfully challenged you... (BTW, do you help run Trump's campaign per chance?)

[MichaelHorn]

New! Another amazing Hornterview:

http://www.mysteriousradio.com/live-shows/