George Knapp's Bob Lazar update

[area51drone]

Of course not.  How about his lie about working at Area 51? 

How do you know this?  He did provide a W2, which from what I have seen is not proven as a fake.   People question it, but they don't know for certain it is false.   He apparently was at least a contractor working at Los Alamos.  You can't just say things are out and out lies without knowing for certain they are.

He couldn't prove he graduated from, or even attended the schools he claimed.

We already discussed this.

  He couldn't prove he was employed at or ever even set foot on the base. 

Can anyone? 

The man's sponsor and principal corroborator was a delusional lunatic who claims no aircraft crashed into the World Trade Center and Israel set off a nuke to produce the tsunami causing the Fukushima disaster. 

You, my friend, are guilty of association fallacy.  Even Bob says that Lear says crazy things and thinks he's nuts.   

[area51drone]

How are you at being polite to glowing blue floating balls of plasma in the dark?

As long as they are not your floating blue balls, I'll be as polite as ever.

[Uncle Duke]

How do you know this?  He did provide a W2, which from what I have seen is not proven as a fake.   People question it, but they don't know for certain it is false.   He apparently was at least a contractor working at Los Alamos.  You can't just say things are out and out lies without knowing for certain they are.

We already discussed this.

Can anyone? 

You, my friend, are guilty of association fallacy.  Even Bob says that Lear says crazy things and thinks he's nuts.

Los Alamos is in NM, not Nev.  Even if he worked there, how does it prove he set foot on A51?  I never heard he had a W2, who is it from?  Did it show he was being paid a salary representative of an advanced-degreed physicist? Would also be interesting to see his tax returns from the period to see what Lazar himself wrote on his 1040 as his occupation. I do remember something about a receipt or some such document Lazar had for a small amount of money from the Navy.  I think John Alexander mentioned that either in an interview or in one of his books.

Sure, he could have proved it by naming people he worked with who will confirm he was there.  I know of at least two associations of/with former A51 employees, "Roadrunners" and "Pioneers of Stealth".  Can't he find one guy who remembers him?  Or how about describing something associated with the facility only someone who's been there would know?  For example, he could have given details on the credentials needed to access the base, as well as what was needed to enter the specific area he claimed to have worked in.  I promise you he had to show those badges/passes/IDs everytime he got on a bus, went through a gate, and entered his work area. Thirty years after the fact, I can still generally describe the badge I had for getting into the Northrop B-2 facilities at Pico and Palmdale, as well as the badge/decal required to get into a remote classified test facility.  I could have described those items in great detail at the time.

The point about Lear is simply that a guy even Lazar admits is nuts isn't a credible witness on his behalf. Can you imagine a court room situation where Lear was put on the stand to corroborate someone's version of an event or confirm an alibi?   "So Mr. Lear, you stated you are 100% confident Mr. Smith was at home on the night of the murder.  Aren't you equally confident the Twins Towers were not struck by aircraft and what the world saw repeatedly on TV striking the Towers was actually holograms?  Haven't you also said you know for a fact there are thousands of humans currently lving on the Moon?"  That's not guilt of assocation, it's judging someone's credibility, even sanity, based on his own statements made over the airwaves to be heard by millions of listeners.

[Morgus]

From a quick google search on Bob Lazar W2, I found this thread link with lots of info including an image:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread804762/pg1

[area51drone]

Knapp talking about Lazar right now on Coast.

[b_dubb]

From a quick google search on Bob Lazar W2, I found this thread link with lots of info including an image:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread804762/pg1

Uhhh wow that's big money. If you're a janitor. I'd expect an engineer to make at LEAST thirty grand in '89

[area51drone]

Uhhh wow that's big money. If you're a janitor. I'd expect an engineer to make at LEAST thirty grand in '89

If you were familiar with the story, he only worked a number of days at the base.  I think only a handful - maybe 5?

Knapp just said on the radio that people were following him (knapp himself) around and phones were being bugged.

[b_dubb]

No that's a W-2 for annual income.  Maybe Lazar had a Summer job at a base somewhere

[area51drone]

No that's a W-2 for annual income.  Maybe Lazar had a Summer job at a base somewhere

See my prior post.

[area51drone]

Knapp is listing off a bunch of details about things that haven't been dis-proven against Lazar.   He also mentions that the MIT schooling issue was brought up in the initial interview, not first by Friedman.   He also says Lazar passed a polygraph.   This show is worth a listen guys.  Knapp says he has multiple witnesses before Lazar who had seen saucers at Area 51, and he would not have put the story on the air without separate verification.  I'll keep updating as interesting info comes in, but Uncle, listen to this show - many things I had not heard before.

[b_dubb]

Knapp is listing off a bunch of details about things that haven't been dis-proven against Lazar.   He also mentions that the MIT schooling issue was brought up in the initial interview, not first by Friedman.   He also says Lazar passed a polygraph.   This show is worth a listen guys.  Knapp says he has multiple witnesses before Lazar who had seen saucers at Area 51.

And nary a Paulides to be found. Fun show

[Jackstar]

"Haven't you also said you know for a fact there are thousands of humans currently lving on the Moon?"

There probably are. Certainly, neither of us is in a position to prove otherwise. Irrespective of that, it is simply bad science to imply that such a thing is "obviously" impossible--because it is not. Highly unlikely? Sure. 100% ruled out? Not hardly.

Wait, wait--was he saying humans living on the moon, or extraterrestrials?

[area51drone]

For example, he could have given details on the credentials needed to access the base, as well as what was needed to enter the specific area he claimed to have worked in.  I promise you he had to show those badges/passes/IDs everytime he got on a bus, went through a gate, and entered his work area. Thirty years after the fact, I can still generally describe the badge I had for getting into the Northrop B-2 facilities at Pico and Palmdale, as well as the badge/decal required to get into a remote classified test facility.  I could have described those items in great detail at the time.

Uncle, for such a well read guy, you either don't remember anything or you haven't read enough.   Yes, he described the badge and there was even a mock up on the website years and years ago.

The point about Lear is simply that a guy even Lazar admits is nuts isn't a credible witness on his behalf. Can you imagine a court room situation where Lear was put on the stand to corroborate someone's version of an event or confirm an alibi?   "So Mr. Lear, you stated you are 100% confident Mr. Smith was at home on the night of the murder.  Aren't you equally confident the Twins Towers were not struck by aircraft and what the world saw repeatedly on TV striking the Towers was actually holograms?  Haven't you also said you know for a fact there are thousands of humans currently lving on the Moon?"  That's not guilt of assocation, it's judging someone's credibility, even sanity, based on his own statements made over the airwaves to be heard by millions of listeners.

Well first off, Lear is not the only witness.  Secondly, just because someone is crazy does not mean everything they see and report in life is crazy as well.  Thirdly, you are discounting Bob's story because Lear is a nut.   That's association fallacy.  Look it up.

[area51drone]

Uncle, in case you don't have another source to listen to it, set it for May 26, 12am:

http://www.cjob.com/audio-on-demand/

This only goes back 10 days, so get it while you can.

[Morgus]

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/pages/bob-lazar-videos

[Uncle Duke]

Uncle, for such a well read guy, you either don't remember anything or you haven't read enough.   Yes, he described the badge and there was even a mock up on the website years and years ago.

Well first off, Lear is not the only witness.  Secondly, just because someone is crazy does not mean everything they see and report in life is crazy as well.  Thirdly, you are discounting Bob's story because Lear is a nut.   That's association fallacy.  Look it up.

My point was it would take someone who unquestionably worked at A51 at the time Lazar was alleged he was there, like one of the Roadrunners or PoS, to comfirm his description of entry credentials.  To my knowledge, that has never happened.

Also, I never said Lear was the only witness, quite the opposite actually.  As I've pointed out, classified and experimental a/c from A51 have been reported as UFOs countless times since the late 50s.  Yes, there are a handful (less than half a dozen?) people who are claimed to have been taken out to see UFOs by Lazar. To my knowledge only one of them, a friend of Lear's, has ever gone public.  Lear, however, is Lazar's primary defender and most vocal corroborator, and is, as even you have admitted, nuts.  His credibility is nil, no attorney in his right mind would put a guy like that on the stand to alibi/validate a client.  If Lazar truly believes the story he tells, he's probably sorry he ever met Lear.

Was out of town for a Memorial Day cermony, sadly didn't see your post until this evening or listen to Knapp.  I will listen to the show, however. Thanks for the Witness, Mr. Crane.

Why would anyone be surprised Knapp was being investigated. even tapped for what he was broadcasting?  At the time, the greatest advance in aerial warfare since radar was being developed/tested at A51.  Knapp was drawing attention to the facility, even thought the Lazar story was BS. The CIC takes leaks extremely seriously, even flawed ones if they lead people to look where they shouldn't be looking. Ever read about the Brits and the false radar towers stories near the coast in 1939/1940?

Did Knapp discuss the down side of Lazar, including the stuff we know now is untrue?  Would like to read the results of the lie detector test.  Also, is Knapp ready to divulge the names of those who claimed to see saucers at A51? If one of them (or more) are Roadrunners or PoS, I'll be the first to say the story might have legs...if they really worked there.

Our friend d_bubb foot-stomped my earlier question about a W-2 with a salary commenesurate with that of an advanced degreed physicist. Clearly  <$1000/year does not qualify.  Additionally, what does the ONI have to do with a USAF facility?  I worked USAF black programs for a number of years, and never had a USN rep or even liasion officer at a single meeting, test, or decision brief.  When I worked joint programs with the USN, like A-12 and JSF, the USN personnel there were aviation, not intel, types.  Would still like to see Lazar's 1040 for the period.

I also note you neglected to explain why someone who allegedly worked at LANL in New Mexico has any connection to A51?

[Jackstar]

I heard someone on the radio yesterday, say that "the unofficial motto of the CIA is 'never on paper.'" It sounded plausible, so I Googled it, but nothing came up.

So I guess it isn't true. Aww shucks, I really thought I was on to something there. Oh well. I guess I'll just mosey on along to something else.

[area51drone]

I heard someone on the radio yesterday, say that "the unofficial motto of the CIA is 'never on paper.'" It sounded plausible, so I Googled it, but nothing came up.

So I guess it isn't true. Aww shucks, I really thought I was on to something there. Oh well. I guess I'll just mosey on along to something else.

I just googled it and this thread came up.  It's on the internet so it must be true.

[area51drone]

My point was it would take someone who unquestionably worked at A51 at the time Lazar was alleged he was there, like one of the Roadrunners or PoS, to comfirm his description of entry credentials.  To my knowledge, that has never happened.

How many other area 51 employees his age are talking?   If he did work at S4, which Knapp said the existence of was independently verified, then he would only be known by the relatively very few people at S4, and perhaps one of the bus drivers.  From the story, he didn't spend much time if any at the regular part of the base.

Also, I never said Lear was the only witness, quite the opposite actually.

I don't have time to go back but I believe you thought Lear was the only witness to Lazar's UFO times.   Knapp said he brought the group out 3 weeks in a row.

however, is Lazar's primary defender and most vocal corroborator, and is, as even you have admitted, nuts.  His credibility is nil, no attorney in his right mind would put a guy like that on the stand to alibi/validate a client.

Knapp said that Lear led them to the first story anywhere in the world about the stealth fighter, so he had some credibility with his news department.   Do you not believe Lear that he was a pilot, or that he worked for the CIA?   I tend to believe him on certain things, like things he has experienced himself.   On the crazy stuff, I think he's just gullible and he's relating stories other people have told him.

Was out of town for a Memorial Day cermony, sadly didn't see your post until this evening or listen to Knapp.  I will listen to the show, however. Thanks for the Witness, Mr. Crane.

Listen to it, and if it goes beyond the 10 days that it's available, then let me know and I'll create a different time machine for you.

Why would anyone be surprised Knapp was being investigated. even tapped for what he was broadcasting?  At the time, the greatest advance in aerial warfare since radar was being developed/tested at A51.  Knapp was drawing attention to the facility, even thought the Lazar story was BS. The CIC takes leaks extremely seriously, even flawed ones if they lead people to look where they shouldn't be looking. Ever read about the Brits and the false radar towers stories near the coast in 1939/1940?

I think I read about how the Brits would create fake stuff so the Germans would bomb the wrong thing, but I don't know if that's what you're talking about.  What can anyone do about it once it's out in the open?   Supposedly they did try to run Bob off the road and I think they even shot at his car.   Knapp says "a lot of weird stuff was happening" back then.  Do you not believe him?

Did Knapp discuss the down side of Lazar, including the stuff we know now is untrue? 

Every single time I have ever heard Knapp talk about Lazar, he mention holes in his story, and usually mentions the schooling thing, as he did in this program.

Would like to read the results of the lie detector test. 

Me too, and I'm sure Jackstar would as well.

Also, is Knapp ready to divulge the names of those who claimed to see saucers at A51? If one of them (or more) are Roadrunners or PoS, I'll be the first to say the story might have legs...if they really worked there.

Any reporter who wants to be respected would not release the names.   He goes into detail about how he stalked an A51 employee, and supposedly the guy promised to have his family give Knapp a tape after he dies, detailing all he knew, that he could release.  The guy is still alive, and Knapp isn't certain he'll get the tape because other things have changed.  But he did tell Knapp stuff, which I'm sure Knapp will release in time if appropriate.  Look, if you don't believe Lear, fine.  But why so much distrust of what Knapp says?   He has always seemed extremely rational and thorough to me.

Our friend d_bubb foot-stomped my earlier question about a W-2 with a salary commenesurate with that of an advanced degreed physicist. Clearly  <$1000/year does not qualify.

I answered this already, and you keep spreading false impressions.    You're either not reading my posts or choosing to ignore them because you just don't want to believe that Lazar worked there.   I'm willing to admit that Lear is a nut, even that it's certainly within the realm of possibility that Lazar didn't work there, but jesus christ man, you just aren't willing to admit anything could be true.

Additionally, what does the ONI have to do with a USAF facility?  I worked USAF black programs for a number of years, and never had a USN rep or even liasion officer at a single meeting, test, or decision brief.    When I worked joint programs with the USN, like A-12 and JSF, the USN personnel there were aviation, not intel, types.  Would still like to see Lazar's 1040 for the period.

#1 when was the JSF ever a black program?  Maybe parts of it were, but I had a girlfriend who worked on it too.  It was never very secret.   Why should Lazar release the 1040, if he even has it anymore?   What business is it of yours what other income he may have had, and how would that help you believe his story?  If it shows the a51 w2 income added as a separate line item, which I wonder if it even would, would you even believe it was real too?  #2, regarding the ONI, straight from their own website:

We’re Readyâ€"Are you?

We’re ready to engage you in some of today’s most intriguing challenges.  ONI is looking for engineers, scientists, and technical specialists to help us better understand foreign weapon and sensor systems.

Become a weapons, ship or country expert performing analysis to protect and defend our nation’s interests.  Whether it’s an advanced jet fighter, the next generation nuclear submarine, or a newly developed cruise missile, you can help ONI identify and overcome the threats to U.S. Naval forces around the world.

Scientific & Technical Intelligence

ONI provides quality analysis to support Navy systems commands, laboratories, and warfare centers. The cost and complexity of design of modern naval systems require continued intelligence support from inception through the life cycle of those systems.

Sounds like a pretty wide net to me.    If UFO's are going underwater, then the Navy definitely has an interest.   The navy also puts up satellites and has their fingers in lot of different places.   I'm not surprised about this.

I also note you neglected to explain why someone who allegedly worked at LANL in New Mexico has any connection to A51?

Where do they find people, scientists specifically, to work at A51?   You'd think someone with prior government experience would be more likely to get such a position.   It doesn't say "yeah that's proof he was at area 51" but it does help provide some background as to why he may have been tapped for such a position.

[Uncle Duke]

How many other area 51 employees his age are talking?   If he did work at S4, which Knapp said the existence of was independently verified, then he would only be known by the relatively very few people at S4, and perhaps one of the bus drivers.  From the story, he didn't spend much time if any at the regular part of the base.

I don't have time to go back but I believe you thought Lear was the only witness to Lazar's UFO times.   Knapp said he brought the group out 3 weeks in a row.

Knapp said that Lear led them to the first story anywhere in the world about the stealth fighter, so he had some credibility with his news department.   Do you not believe Lear that he was a pilot, or that he worked for the CIA?   I tend to believe him on certain things, like things he has experienced himself.   On the crazy stuff, I think he's just gullible and he's relating stories other people have told him.

Listen to it, and if it goes beyond the 10 days that it's available, then let me know and I'll create a different time machine for you.

I think I read about how the Brits would create fake stuff so the Germans would bomb the wrong thing, but I don't know if that's what you're talking about.  What can anyone do about it once it's out in the open?   Supposedly they did try to run Bob off the road and I think they even shot at his car.   Knapp says "a lot of weird stuff was happening" back then.  Do you not believe him?
Every single time I have ever heard Knapp talk about Lazar, he mention holes in his story, and usually mentions the schooling thing, as he did in this program.

Me too, and I'm sure Jackstar would as well.

Any reporter who wants to be respected would not release the names.   He goes into detail about how he stalked an A51 employee, and supposedly the guy promised to have his family give Knapp a tape after he dies, detailing all he knew, that he could release.  The guy is still alive, and Knapp isn't certain he'll get the tape because other things have changed.  But he did tell Knapp stuff, which I'm sure Knapp will release in time if appropriate.  Look, if you don't believe Lear, fine.  But why so much distrust of what Knapp says?   He has always seemed extremely rational and thorough to me.

I answered this already, and you keep spreading false impressions.    You're either not reading my posts or choosing to ignore them because you just don't want to believe that Lazar worked there.   I'm willing to admit that Lear is a nut, even that it's certainly within the realm of possibility that Lazar didn't work there, but jesus christ man, you just aren't willing to admit anything could be true.

#1 when was the JSF ever a black program?  Maybe parts of it were, but I had a girlfriend who worked on it too.  It was never very secret.   Why should Lazar release the 1040, if he even has it anymore?   What business is it of yours what other income he may have had, and how would that help you believe his story?  If it shows the a51 w2 income added as a separate line item, which I wonder if it even would, would you even believe it was real too?  #2, regarding the ONI, straight from their own website:

Sounds like a pretty wide net to me.    If UFO's are going underwater, then the Navy definitely has an interest.   The navy also puts up satellites and has their fingers in lot of different places.   I'm not surprised about this.

Where do they find people, scientists specifically, to work at A51?   You'd think someone with prior government experience would be more likely to get such a position.   It doesn't say "yeah that's proof he was at area 51" but it does help provide some background as to why he may have been tapped for such a position.

Yes, we've established Lazar doesn't know anyone from the base.  Not surprising to me, since I don't think he ever set foot on A51.  But that wasn't the point.  I'm saying the guys who worked at A51 at the time he claims he was there could confirm whether Lazar's original description/mock-up of his entry credentials is accurate.  They don't need to know him to do that.  The Roadrunners and PoS both have websites, so it should be easy to track someone down to have a look at his orignal credentials comments. 

I know Lear was a pilot, and that he claims he worked for the CIA.  I have no reason to doubt Knapp in his claim Lear told him about the stealth fighter.  I have no reason to doubt Lear in his claim Lazar took him and a few others to the desert to see strange aerial vehicles.  I have no reason to doubt they saw and videoed strange aerial vehicles.  Doesn't change the fact Lear is delusional and not a credible witness, that no one in his right mind would put him on a stand to testify on someone's behalf. 

Do I believe Knapp made those comments about "weird stuff"?  Sure, like I said the counter-intel community takes leaks very seriously, so I can believe there were investigations being undetaken.  Phone taps?  Surveillance? Intimidation?  All possible, if not likely.  Unless Knapp was there when Lazar was supposedly run off the road and shot at, he's just repeating what Lazar told him, however.  Do I believe Lazar on these points?  Hard to say, but even if true that doesn't prove he ever set foot on the base.  Those things could just have easily happened if he was messing around with some dude's wife or had gambling debts.

I've never questioned Knapp, at least on this subject.  I think he is telling the story as he saw it, reporting what he's been told.   Also a fair point about not Knapp divulging sources, a journalist who burns sources will play hell getting others in the future.  When/if he does divulge a source, however, he needs to have proof the source is credible.  I'm sure he learned a lesson on Lazar.

I'm willing to admit Lazar presented a W-2 for a <$1000 from the USN ONI.  That tells me he worked for ONI, probably on a short-term task, most likely as casual labor.  As previously discussed, working for ONI doesn't connect Lazar to A51.  Who does Lazar claim he was working for during his time at A51?  ONI?  USAF? LANL?  And the "five day" deal makes his story even less, not more, credible in my mind.  In processing alone would have eaten up a day, maybe two.  Hard to believe he learned as much as he claims in less than a work week.

I was using JSF as an example of a joint program, not a black program. You are correct, however, in stating aspects of JSF are high classified.  The services cooperate only when forced to (like joint programs), and compete against one another for funding.  They hold close what is theirs.  If there was USN particiation in aviation black programs at A51, it would have been aviation guys from Pax, not intel types from ONI, who would have been there.  The point is moot, however, unless Lazar claims he was employed by ONI while allegedly working there. 

It would not surprise me to learn there were/are LANL types supporting black programs at A51.  Over the years I've run into a few of those guys, as well as those from Sandia, on a couple different programs.  Relative to Lazar and LANL, the question is what was his job while there?  Physicist?  Technician?  Supply clerk? That's why I'd like to see how he listed his occupation on his 1040.  And as you pointed out, having worked at LANL in any capacity doesn't tie him in with A51.

One thing I forgot to mention.  Lazar claims he got his job at A51 through Dr. Edward Teller, a world renowned physicist and key developer of the H bomb. Teller has stated he didn't know Lazar and didn't facilitate any job for him at A51. 

[area51drone]

Yes, we've established Lazar doesn't know anyone from the base.

You seem to have established that in your own mind.  I don't necessarily agree with you.  He used the pseudonym "Dennis" on the first Knapp interview, supposedly Dennis was the first name of his boss at S4.

Not surprising to me, since I don't think he ever set foot on A51.  But that wasn't the point.  I'm saying the guys who worked at A51 at the time he claims he was there could confirm whether Lazar's original description/mock-up of his entry credentials is accurate.  They don't need to know him to do that.  The Roadrunners and PoS both have websites, so it should be easy to track someone down to have a look at his orignal credentials comments. 

Good luck in finding that out.  Let me know what you find.

I know Lear was a pilot, and that he claims he worked for the CIA.  I have no reason to doubt Knapp in his claim Lear told him about the stealth fighter.  I have no reason to doubt Lear in his claim Lazar took him and a few others to the desert to see strange aerial vehicles.  I have no reason to doubt they saw and videoed strange aerial vehicles.  Doesn't change the fact Lear is delusional and not a credible witness, that no one in his right mind would put him on a stand to testify on someone's behalf. 

First off, no one is asking him to be a witness in a court of law, but clearly YOU believe him on some things, so depending on what he's talking about, a jury might believe him as well.  It would be pretty easy for an attorney to get a judge to strike questions that were irrelevant, like "did planes fly into the twin towers?"

Do I believe Knapp made those comments about "weird stuff"?  Sure, like I said the counter-intel community takes leaks very seriously, so I can believe there were investigations being undetaken.  Phone taps?  Surveillance? Intimidation?  All possible, if not likely.  Unless Knapp was there when Lazar was supposedly run off the road and shot at, he's just repeating what Lazar told him, however.  Do I believe Lazar on these points?  Hard to say, but even if true that doesn't prove he ever set foot on the base.  Those things could just have easily happened if he was messing around with some dude's wife or had gambling debts.

Perhaps, and agreed on the point about Knapp relaying what Lazar said about being run off the road.   I can't say with 100% certainty that what Lazar says is true.  I just tend to believe him.   What Knapp said on air about the other witnesses, I had not previously heard, and that just makes Lazar's story more believable in my book.  Knapp also said he talked with the people who followed Knapp himself, so who knows what all was said during those discussions.  Clearly Knapp believes Lazar.

I'm willing to admit Lazar presented a W-2 for a <$1000 from the USN ONI.  That tells me he worked for ONI, probably on a short-term task, most likely as casual labor.  As previously discussed, working for ONI doesn't connect Lazar to A51.  Who does Lazar claim he was working for during his time at A51?  ONI?  USAF? LANL?  And the "five day" deal makes his story even less, not more, credible in my mind.  In processing alone would have eaten up a day, maybe two.  Hard to believe he learned as much as he claims in less than a work week.

I don't know that it was 5 days, but yes, he said he worked for the ONI, I believe it was even on the badge.  He said that the number of days actually at S4 were small, and I don't remember how many there were.   Before he was taken there, he had a number of days where he was given menial tasks at a different location - not even on Area 51 from what I recall.   I think he said he was assuming it was while security stuff checked out.   

Haven't you read this - are you forgetting, or have you just really not listened to/read all that is out there on the subject?

If there was USN particiation in aviation black programs at A51, it would have been aviation guys from Pax, not intel types from ONI, who would have been there.  The point is moot, however, unless Lazar claims he was employed by ONI while allegedly working there. 

I think you don't know what you don't know.   Only those in the know, really know, right?

Relative to Lazar and LANL, the question is what was his job while there?  Physicist?  Technician?  Supply clerk? That's why I'd like to see how he listed his occupation on his 1040.  And as you pointed out, having worked at LANL in any capacity doesn't tie him in with A51.

Creating a jet car doesn't tie him to Area 51 either, but it helps his story that he met with Teller.    If he worked at LANL, then that would help his story as well.   I don't remember what it is he said he did.  It might have been where he was before he went to S4.

One thing I forgot to mention.  Lazar claims he got his job at A51 through Dr. Edward Teller, a world renowned physicist and key developer of the H bomb. Teller has stated he didn't know Lazar and didn't facilitate any job for him at A51.

Yes, I remember reading that.  Doesn't mean that it's the truth, either.  I think I recall that Teller actually got mad at the interviewer that asked that question and refused to answer anything else.  IF that's truly the case, then I would tend not to believe Teller because if he really didn't know him, it's more likely he would just laugh at the question and brush it aside.

[Jackstar]

I'm sure Jackstar would as well.

Nah. I'm good.


I wasn't kidding, earlier; I didn't get the Lazar hate before, and now, I totally get it. Rarely has a question been so comprehensively answered.

[Uncle Duke]

You seem to have established that in your own mind.  I don't necessarily agree with you.  He used the pseudonym "Dennis" on the first Knapp interview, supposedly Dennis was the first name of his boss at S4.

Good luck in finding that out.  Let me know what you find.

First off, no one is asking him to be a witness in a court of law, but clearly YOU believe him on some things, so depending on what he's talking about, a jury might believe him as well.  It would be pretty easy for an attorney to get a judge to strike questions that were irrelevant, like "did planes fly into the twin towers?"

Perhaps, and agreed on the point about Knapp relaying what Lazar said about being run off the road.   I can't say with 100% certainty that what Lazar says is true.  I just tend to believe him.   What Knapp said on air about the other witnesses, I had not previously heard, and that just makes Lazar's story more believable in my book.  Knapp also said he talked with the people who followed Knapp himself, so who knows what all was said during those discussions.  Clearly Knapp believes Lazar.

I don't know that it was 5 days, but yes, he said he worked for the ONI, I believe it was even on the badge.  He said that the number of days actually at S4 were small, and I don't remember how many there were.   Before he was taken there, he had a number of days where he was given menial tasks at a different location - not even on Area 51 from what I recall.   I think he said he was assuming it was while security stuff checked out.   

Haven't you read this - are you forgetting, or have you just really not listened to/read all that is out there on the subject?

I think you don't know what you don't know.   Only those in the know, really know, right?

Creating a jet car doesn't tie him to Area 51 either, but it helps his story that he met with Teller.    If he worked at LANL, then that would help his story as well.   I don't remember what it is he said he did.  It might have been where he was before he went to S4.

Yes, I remember reading that.  Doesn't mean that it's the truth, either.  I think I recall that Teller actually got mad at the interviewer that asked that question and refused to answer anything else.  IF that's truly the case, then I would tend not to believe Teller because if he really didn't know him, it's more likely he would just laugh at the question and brush it aside.

I just finished listening to the one hour segement of Kanpp's show where he talked about and played clips from interviews with Lazar.  I heard nothing new there of any significance.  Not so sure Knapp totally believes Lazar now, but clearly he's still enamored with the story.  After all, that story pretty much made Knapp's career.  I had heard him say previously he'd had others offer bits and pieces of the A51 story, and that was a factor in going public with Lazar's claims.  The bit about the guy who's going to come clean with a tape after his death is interesting and was new to me, but now sounds like it's another dead end.  "Things changed" is all the explanation we got.  That could mean anything from he sobered up to he got threatened by authorities his wife/family could lose his survivor's benfits if he went public, even in death.

I'm not the one who claimed I worked there or did the reports on Lazar's claims, so I'll leave the legwork to prove his claims to those who did.  Sounds like Lazar doesn't want to be burdened with his past, so I think we can assume he won't make any effort to get collorbation from either Roadrunners or PoS.  Knapp, on the otherhand, could do that.  He knows those guys, I think he's even had some of the Roadrunners on his show.  If he's already asked them and they supported Lazar's claims in any form or fashion, I think it's a good bet we'd have heard about it.  Maybe he doesn't want to find out.  As the expression goes, "If you can't stand the answer, don't ask the question".

Cut it any way you like, the fact remains Lear is not credible.  If you think he is, we disagree.

As I said previously, I would not be surprised if the counter-intel guys got testy during the investigation of leaks and TV broadcasts dealing with A51.  They get paid to take such things very seriously.  Knapp's comments about he himself being tapped, followed, even harassed I believe because they make sense.  The things Lazar claimed happened very well might have also, we have to take his word for it.  You do know Lazar's wife was cheating on him during this time, right?  Maybe it was her boyfriend taking shots at Lazar?

What I know/have read/have not forgotten is the guy made extraordinary claims that he was never able to prove with even ordinary evidense and those claims don't pass the smell test.  I've outlined these before, no need to list them again.  You accept what he says pretty much at face value, but we have totally different frames of reference. I worked for over 30 years (35 years if we count time as a contractor) in the business he claims to have worked in for 5 days (8 days? 2 weeks? a month?---take your pick) and I know the stuff he claims is at best highly unlikey, at worst beyond silly.  He show a total lack of understanding of how the system he claims to have supported actually works.  It's the details that trip up the wanna-bes. 

Col John Alexander says in his book he personally asked his personal friend Edward Teller about Lazar, and Teller told him he did nothing to facilitate a job for Lazar at A51.  That's good enough for me.

[area51drone]

Whatever, I'm done with this thread.  You clearly cannot be swayed even a little bit.  35 years in your "position" makes you an expert on everything done in the government, so obviously you know best and no one could possibly know more than you, especially some "joker" off the street who "could never land a job at A51".    Go tell it to Friedman, I guess.

[Jackstar]

We'll just never know. Might as well pack up and go home. :

[Uncle Duke]

Whatever, I'm done with this thread.  You clearly cannot be swayed even a little bit.  35 years in your "position" makes you an expert on everything done in the government, so obviously you know best and no one could possibly know more than you, especially some "joker" off the street who "could never land a job at A51".    Go tell it to Friedman, I guess.

Well said

[Jackstar]

I will admit to mild curiosity: if the crashed non-Earth-origin craft are not stored, or were not stored at A51, where are/were they stored? I heard about some other base, Four Corners was it? But I do not know, of course, nor am I even clear on what the rumors or theories are--this is not my area of expertise, or even, idle interest.

[area51drone]

Some people say Dugway, but who knows.   But I agree, if they weren't at Area 51, where were they?  Maybe uncle doesn't believe we have crashed craft, only that they've been witnessed aloft.

[Juan]

I will admit to mild curiosity: if the crashed non-Earth-origin craft are not stored, or were not stored at A51, where are/were they stored?

Everyone knows the parts were carried from Roswell to Wright Field (now Wright-Patterson Air Force Base) and specifically Hanger 18.

[Jackstar]

Oh, I thought there was a hangar numbered 18 at A51.

See, I'm already confused. Soooo many numbers. I gotta get all this straight before Uncle Duke shares his handwritten notes with us.

Uncle? Uncle! Why do you have your hands in your pockets like that?

Whatever, I'm done with this thread.

See Buzz, this is why the Bigfeet will not palaver with you: you have proven that you cannot be trusted, like most any other Pinkskin. It is also why you are buying all my liquor at the GabCon.