Author Topic: Windows 10  (Read 40315 times)

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #330 on: August 17, 2016, 08:47:52 AM »
HONEST I was!  ;D

I thought you were being a smart ass about it lol

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #331 on: August 17, 2016, 08:49:07 AM »
I thought you were being a smart ass about it lol

I ALWAYS take computer problems seriously.  I have spent many hours sweating profusely over them, and like to save others the experience if I can.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #332 on: August 17, 2016, 08:50:03 AM »
I ALWAYS take computer problems seriously.  I have spent many hours sweating profusely over them.

Me too, too many to number.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #333 on: August 17, 2016, 08:53:19 AM »
Me too, too many to number.

If it wasn't for bellgab, I would have gotten rid of my computer long ago.  8)

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #334 on: August 18, 2016, 12:54:58 AM »
I use Linux Mint and concur.  It's a good distro for peeps trying to wean themselves off of Windows.  You can download the iso for a live DVD, burn it, and then boot into Linux Mint off the DVD.  It's gonna be slow, because you are running off of a DVD, but a quick and convenient way to check it out before installing it onto a disk.  The DVD will also offer you the option to install on a hard disk when/if you are ready.

i always recommend linux for regular people who plan to use a pc only for browsing the web, and i've been pretty jazzed to try the new linux mint on a machine.  i finally got around to it a couple weeks ago on a vista era toshiba laptop.  the laptop's hardware was very common at the time it was produced, so i was surprised to see how poorly mint ran on it.  multiple update packages repeatedly failed due to checksum inconsistencies, no wifi driver was natively available, and it was slooooow compared to windows on this particular machine.  i was pretty disappointed since desktop linux has traditionally been a respectable and sensible alternative for older hardware.  generally i'm sure it still is, but i ended up scrapping the whole idea in this instance because i just didn't have time to be consumed by this one customer's machine. 

i still recommend desktop linux for users who only want to browse the web on a pc, as windows brings only risks to the table in that use case, but this was a buzz kill.  i'm sure i'll end up giving it another shot on a different machine, but thus far it's 0 for 1.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #335 on: August 18, 2016, 01:22:04 AM »
i always recommend linux for regular people who plan to use a pc only for browsing the web, and i've been pretty jazzed to try the new linux mint on a machine.  i finally got around to it a couple weeks ago on a vista era toshiba laptop.  the laptop's hardware was very common at the time it was produced, so i was surprised to see how poorly mint ran on it.  multiple update packages repeatedly failed due to checksum inconsistencies, no wifi driver was natively available, and it was slooooow compared to windows on this particular machine.  i was pretty disappointed since desktop linux has traditionally been a respectable and sensible alternative for older hardware.  generally i'm sure it still is, but i ended up scrapping the whole idea in this instance because i just didn't have time to be consumed by this one customer's machine. 

Please tell me that's the laptop you sent to Falkie.

You might have had better luck with an older version of Mint. 

You do bespeak of the reason that Linux doesn't have a larger install base: While Windows has billions of dollars being put into its development, Linux is free and the resources for the development are limited (which is one reason why there is no Linux touchscreen version).  Windows will generally work out of the gate for most all features and hardware, while Linux does not.  Linux is best suited for someone who doesn't mind (or enjoys) tinkering with their box while Windows can end up being the better choice for people who just want their computer to run.

Many known problems have solutions; there is a tremendous corpus of fixes available on the Internet that will help you to overcome most any problem with your Linux install.  For those who don't have the time or interest to search for and implement those fixes, Windows 7 ::) is the better choice.

[edit]  I had heard something to the effect that Windows 10 is not compatible with Vista-era hardware.  Did you try to install W10 on that laptop and did it work?

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #336 on: August 18, 2016, 01:48:11 AM »
Disk Cleanup worked fine, all is well now.  Thanks again, Brig.  I have SSDs and cannot stand unnecessary stuff on them, especially a .old

you just educated me, because it wouldn't have occurred to me to try using disk cleanup to remove that folder. 


the windows.old folder contains the data required to facilitate a rollback to your previous version of windows.  a rollback could be necessary for lots of reasons, ranging from user preference to failed upgrades on particular machines.  the windows.old folder has probably saved microsoft countless angry phone calls and emails, heh heh.

as far as removing it...
being unaware of your solution, my first course of action would have been to boot from a linux CD and delete windows.old through that.  this is because the folder would be entirely accessible in that environment.  linux doesn't respect windows file ownership attributes and isn't bound by NTFS limitations like the length of a filename or the length of the path to a file or folder.  (yeah, i've actually had windows refuse to delete files or folders because their names or directory paths were too long.  so frustrating.)  also, from within a linux live cd environment, files/folders on the windows partition are no longer "in use" by any system process, eliminating another hurdle that can prevent deletion in windows.


by the way, opensuse is my favorite linux for manipulating/accessing files on a windows partition.  10x more stable than any ubuntu derivative.


as an aside... these are all reasons your virus scans should occasionally be done with a bootable disk (like this) or something effectively the same as a bootable disk (like this).


there's only one problem with my linux disk approach.  most modern linux distros won't allow you to access a windows 8 or windows 10 partition if that windows partition is using "fast startup" because fast startup depends on a snapshot image of windows which would be broken if linux were to modify it in any way.  linux developers have made this call in an effort to prevent people from damaging their windows install.  to get around this, you either have to first disable "quick startup" in windows and reboot it a couple times before booting the linux disk, or you have to mount the windows partition in linux as "read only."  the latter workaround is perfectly fine if your only goal is to retrieve data from the windows partition (documents/pictures/databases, etc.).


ta!

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #337 on: August 18, 2016, 01:55:02 AM »
Please tell me that's the laptop you sent to Falkie.

You might have had better luck with an older version of Mint. 
this is probably correct.

Quote
[edit]  I had heard something to the effect that Windows 10 is not compatible with Vista-era hardware.  Did you try to install W10 on that laptop and did it work?

the customer had an unused win7 retail key, so we did end up using that to install win10 on the laptop.  it ran amazingly and the customer couldn't be happier.  win10 is so buttery smooth on old hardware, particularly with an ssd as was the case with this laptop.

by the way, everybody... your win7 and win8 keys are still activating win10 installs, despite the passing of the cutoff date.  who knows why or how long this will continue...

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #338 on: August 18, 2016, 01:44:21 PM »
you just educated me, because it wouldn't have occurred to me to try using disk cleanup to remove that folder. 


the windows.old folder contains the data required to facilitate a rollback to your previous version of windows.  a rollback could be necessary for lots of reasons, ranging from user preference to failed upgrades on particular machines.  the windows.old folder has probably saved microsoft countless angry phone calls and emails, heh heh.

as far as removing it...
being unaware of your solution, my first course of action would have been to boot from a linux CD and delete windows.old through that.  this is because the folder would be entirely accessible in that environment.  linux doesn't respect windows file ownership attributes and isn't bound by NTFS limitations like the length of a filename or the length of the path to a file or folder.  (yeah, i've actually had windows refuse to delete files or folders because their names or directory paths were too long.  so frustrating.)  also, from within a linux live cd environment, files/folders on the windows partition are no longer "in use" by any system process, eliminating another hurdle that can prevent deletion in windows.


by the way, opensuse is my favorite linux for manipulating/accessing files on a windows partition.  10x more stable than any ubuntu derivative.


as an aside... these are all reasons your virus scans should occasionally be done with a bootable disk (like this) or something effectively the same as a bootable disk (like this).


there's only one problem with my linux disk approach.  most modern linux distros won't allow you to access a windows 8 or windows 10 partition if that windows partition is using "fast startup" because fast startup depends on a snapshot image of windows which would be broken if linux were to modify it in any way.  linux developers have made this call in an effort to prevent people from damaging their windows install.  to get around this, you either have to first disable "quick startup" in windows and reboot it a couple times before booting the linux disk, or you have to mount the windows partition in linux as "read only."  the latter workaround is perfectly fine if your only goal is to retrieve data from the windows partition (documents/pictures/databases, etc.).


ta!

yes I am aware of what it .old does.  My issue is why it suddenly appeared because of the anniversary update.  I used to never have issues deleting the .old without using Disk Cleanup.

opensuse rocks true.  What do you think of Mint?  i am thinking about installing that.


Yes I have frequently performed virus scans using a bootable USB.

Re: yeah, i've actually had windows refuse to delete files or folders because their names or directory paths were too long.  so frustrating.   

yes I have had the same issue.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #339 on: August 18, 2016, 01:53:49 PM »
opensuse rocks true.  What do you think of Mint?  i am thinking about installing that.

well, like i said, my recent install of the newest mint didn't go well, but it might fare better on newer hardware.  it's just a shame, though, because older hardware is supposed to be where desktop linux shines.  modern windows is more performance optimized than ever before and requires a smaller hardware footprint than ever before, so this is becoming less of a selling point for linux on the desktop.

in the past i've liked mint because it comes with many of the video/audio codecs necessary to play a wide array of content.  it even used to come with flash, but i don't know if that's still true. 

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #340 on: August 18, 2016, 02:27:18 PM »
well, like i said, my recent install of the newest mint didn't go well, but it might fare better on newer hardware.  it's just a shame, though, because older hardware is supposed to be where desktop linux shines.  modern windows is more performance optimized than ever before and requires a smaller hardware footprint than ever before, so this is becoming less of a selling point for linux on the desktop.

in the past i've liked mint because it comes with many of the video/audio codecs necessary to play a wide array of content.  it even used to come with flash, but i don't know if that's still true.

Nice, I going to install it soon to check it out, probably over the weekend. I've got the newest edition .iso on thumb drive.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #341 on: August 18, 2016, 03:07:52 PM »
yes I am aware of what it .old does.  My issue is why it suddenly appeared because of the anniversary update.  I used to never have issues deleting the .old without using Disk Cleanup.
I think the anniversary update was really a proper OS upgrade. That's the type of behavior that happens when you go from 8.1 to 10 via an upgrade. This is probably the same.

Unless... Was Micro$oft worried that the update might break things for people?

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #342 on: August 18, 2016, 05:48:09 PM »


[edit]  I had heard something to the effect that Windows 10 is not compatible with Vista-era hardware.  Did you try to install W10 on that laptop and did it work?

I ran W10 Preview during it's development days on a Vista-era laptop, and it ran nicely, but I think Vista is out of the officially upgradable chain, and you might not be able to activate it.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #343 on: August 18, 2016, 05:56:28 PM »
I think the anniversary update was really a proper OS upgrade. That's the type of behavior that happens when you go from 8.1 to 10 via an upgrade. This is probably the same.

Unless... Was Micro$oft worried that the update might break things for people?

The latter makes a lot of sense. This is the first time seeing a .old from a Windows update.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #344 on: August 18, 2016, 06:21:03 PM »

Unless... Was Micro$oft worried that the update might break things for people?

I think so. I've had two anniversary updates fail thus far, so it happens. In both cases it was resolved by installing all drivers and fully updating windows... then proceeding with the anniversary update.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #345 on: August 18, 2016, 06:51:03 PM »
my first course of action would have been to boot from a linux CD

Linux is like that girl who is always there when you need to bust a slump, takes it in the ass and cooks for you afterwards, but whom you never call on her birthday or take her nice places and generally take for granted until that time that your primary gal lets you down -- again.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #346 on: August 18, 2016, 06:52:10 PM »
by the way, everybody... your win7 and win8 keys are still activating win10 installs, despite the passing of the cutoff date.  who knows why or how long this will continue...

Last chance to take MS dick up your ass before they stop using lube, folks!

win10 is so buttery smooth on old hardware, particularly with an ssd as was the case with this laptop.

You put a hundred dollar SSD in a Vista-era laptop that is worth zilch?  Win 10 was the only move that made sense.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #347 on: August 18, 2016, 07:35:20 PM »
Linux is like that girl who is always there when you need to bust a slump, takes it in the ass and cooks for you afterwards, but whom you never call on her birthday or take her nice places and generally take for granted until that time that your primary gal lets you down -- again.
I'm running Linux (ubuntu 14.10, Steam OS, and Tiny Core) on three hard drives. I also have a Windows 10 gaming machine.

That being said, I agree with what you said. When I just want to game or check something, my windows machine is where I go. But if I feeling like being experimental with a girl that'll never spill the beans... wham!

Anyone hearing about the Win 10 controversies with degrading their non-Windows gaming experiences? It works buttery smooth for me thus far. Best Windows OS since 3.1.

Steam OS is a joke however... I had such high hopes... The drivers are atrocious and the performance is half of what it should be.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #348 on: August 18, 2016, 07:40:54 PM »
Linux is like that girl who is always there when you need to bust a slump, takes it in the ass and cooks for you afterwards, but whom you never call on her birthday or take her nice places and generally take for granted until that time that your primary gal lets you down -- again.

hahaha, well done.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #349 on: August 18, 2016, 07:45:01 PM »

You put a hundred dollar SSD in a Vista-era laptop that is worth zilch?  Win 10 was the only move that made sense.

I do what I'm paid to do. And it ran great, so it did make sense. And the drive cost $46. I'm not trying to convince you of anything here, so no need to position things as if I am.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #350 on: August 18, 2016, 09:33:30 PM »
I do what I'm paid to do. And it ran great, so it did make sense. And the drive cost $46. I'm not trying to convince you of anything here, so no need to position things as if I am.

No need to read anything into it.  I just read that part about the SSD and it was like someone told me that they installed a new set of Cinturatos on a '72 Pinto with a brown door.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #351 on: August 18, 2016, 10:42:46 PM »
No need to read anything into it.  I just read that part about the SSD and it was like someone told me that they installed a new set of Cinturatos on a '72 Pinto with a brown door.

a $46 solid state drive alone can turn an 8 year old junker pc into something totally usable.  on my work bench, i've repeatedly seen a seven year old PC and a brand new PC race to complete a round of windows updates, only to watch the seven year old PC win easily because it has an ssd and the new pc doesn't.  it's eye opening.  and many of these older machines aren't even able to take advantage of the ssd's instruction sets/sataIII, etc.  so i wouldn't hesitate to drop an ssd into most older PCs if they're clean, seem dependable, and are capable of running a modern OS.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #352 on: August 19, 2016, 01:04:59 AM »
a $46 solid state drive alone can turn an 8 year old junker pc into something totally usable.  on my work bench, i've repeatedly seen a seven year old PC and a brand new PC race to complete a round of windows updates, only to watch the seven year old PC win easily because it has an ssd and the new pc doesn't.  it's eye opening.  and many of these older machines aren't even able to take advantage of the ssd's instruction sets/sataIII, etc.  so i wouldn't hesitate to drop an ssd into most older PCs if they're clean, seem dependable, and are capable of running a modern OS.

Interesting.  Depends, of course, upon the junker having a SATA interface, unless you found a way around that too (hint hint).

 I went with an SSD in my desktop over a year ago and was able to boot into Win 7 login screen (timed from dual boot screen until the Win 7 login screen) in about 7 seconds.  I almost wept.  It's slower now, because it's no longer a fresh install, but certainly way faster than the HDD.

Thanx for putting up with me in this discussion, it has been illuminating.  I'm thinking of using a non-updated Win 10 on a dual boot with the wireless adapter shut off perpetually on the Win 10 side.  Kind of the reciprocal of how you use Linux.  You have to know the sin to recognize it, as the Vatican says about their prodigious collection of smut. 

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #353 on: August 19, 2016, 01:27:29 AM »
I'm thinking of using a non-updated Win 10 on a dual boot with the wireless adapter shut off perpetually on the Win 10 side.

i think that's a great way to go about it if you're worried about windows phoning home.  just be sure you install windows first and linux second because windows STILL does not respect the grub bootloader and will wipe it out.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #354 on: August 20, 2016, 06:57:41 AM »
I ran W10 Preview during it's development days on a Vista-era laptop, and it ran nicely, but I think Vista is out of the officially upgradable chain, and you might not be able to activate it.
Vista is an evil bastard child !  :P
;)

:D  ;D

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #355 on: August 20, 2016, 07:06:10 AM »
Interesting.  Depends, of course, upon the junker having a SATA interface, ...
Incorrect. You can still get PATA SSD's. Just an FYI.

One advantage of the old boxes is some of them have an analog switch for the NIC that can be instantly switched off in an emergency if you cruise the dark recesses of the net. ;)

Also, since approx. 2005, all windows preloaded boxes started to require dithering for the screen display, no matter what type of screen you had. Do some research into this and I think you may be shocked at why. :o

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #356 on: August 20, 2016, 08:43:48 AM »
Incorrect. You can still get PATA SSD's. Just an FYI.

Yes, but there is little difference between the RW speeds of the PATA SSD and HDD, so why bother, considering the much smaller storage capacity.

Also, since approx. 2005, all windows preloaded boxes started to require dithering for the screen display, no matter what type of screen you had. Do some research into this and I think you may be shocked at why. :o

Link or it didn't happen.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #357 on: August 20, 2016, 12:04:25 PM »
Yes, but there is little difference between the RW speeds of the PATA SSD and HDD, so why bother, considering the much smaller storage capacity.

Link or it didn't happen.
Gotta disagree with you again. I noticed a considerable difference between HDD PATA and SSD PATA on the order of 3x. Don't always trust the published specs. That's the main reason I held off getting an SSD in the first place. What a mistake.

Quote
Link or it didn't happen.
Can't find it right now, but I can tarball about 200 files dealing with security / privacy and drop them here if you want to sift through them. I'm pretty sure it's in one of them. ;) Then again, maybe I saw it somewhere online.