How to Help the Egyptians

[fabucat]

As you may know, the Egyptian people are protesting for democracy.   The US MSM has really sucked at covering such an historic event.  (Maybe they think that this will give Americans ideas?)  Luckily, you can follow these events on Twitter by searching the hashtags #Egypt and #Jan25

I live in one of the few places in the US that gets Al Jazeera English on cable.  They've been doing an excellent job of covering these demos today IN REAL TIME (they totally missed the boat a few days ago, then got with the program).  You, of course, can stream Al Jazeera English on your computer. 

The Egyptian government has TOTALLY cut off the nation's internet and cell phone service. 

Self-described IT "geeks" and "nerds" from all over the world are working to help the Egyptian people get internet service, so that they can get the news out all over the world.  I know that there are some really smart IT people who are forum members here, and who might want to help Egyptians.

https://www.accessnow.org/proxy-cloud/page/join-the-cloud

P.S. Footage from Cairo looks like Washington DC, circa 1968, except that in some cases Egyptian cops are actually joining the protesters.

[The General]

Egyptian democracy is a BAD IDEA.  Egytptian democracy will most likely mean a rise to power for the Muslim Brotherhood.  More radical throwback Muslims.  We should be supporting the current government, it may not be perfect but it's better than what will happen there with an overthrow. 

This is almost an exact replay of the revolution in Iran that ousted the Shah and brought in the Ayatollah Khomeini.  The Shah was better than what followed with Islamic radicals.  And Obama is on the wrong side of this revolution, just like Carter undermined the Shah of Iran.  This is a huge mistake.  We should be supporting our friends in the government of Egypt, not the revolutionaries.

Islamic extremists gaining control of Egypt will mean that both sides of the Suez canal will be controlled by throwback Muslims.  Bad news.  How does $10 a gallon gas sound?

[RoadDog]

As you may know, the Egyptian people are protesting for democracy.   The US MSM has really sucked at covering such an historic event.  (Maybe they think that this will give Americans ideas?)  Luckily, you can follow these events on Twitter by searching the hashtags #Egypt and #Jan25

I live in one of the few places in the US that gets Al Jazeera English on cable.  They've been doing an excellent job of covering these demos today IN REAL TIME (they totally missed the boat a few days ago, then got with the program).  You, of course, can stream Al Jazeera English on your computer. 

The Egyptian government has TOTALLY cut off the nation's internet and cell phone service. 

Self-described IT "geeks" and "nerds" from all over the world are working to help the Egyptian people get internet service, so that they can get the news out all over the world.  I know that there are some really smart IT people who are forum members here, and who might want to help Egyptians.

https://www.accessnow.org/proxy-cloud/page/join-the-cloud

P.S. Footage from Cairo looks like Washington DC, circa 1968, except that in some cases Egyptian cops are actually joining the protesters.

No, Egyptian cops are one of the things these kids are protesting. It's the military which is starting to stand with the protesters. The cops are quite well known for their vicious treatment of everyone.

[The General]

The Obama administration will be remembered as the ones who 'lost' Egypt if we don't support Mubarak soon.
This is a total repeat of Carter losing Iran to radicals.  This is huge, the ramifications are going to be devastating.

[TaoOfLuxLisbon]

Egyptian democracy is a BAD IDEA.  Egytptian democracy will most likely mean a rise to power for the Muslim Brotherhood.  More radical throwback Muslims.  We should be supporting the current government, it may not be perfect but it's better than what will happen there with an overthrow. 

This is almost an exact replay of the revolution in Iran that ousted the Shah and brought in the Ayatollah Khomeini.  The Shah was better than what followed with Islamic radicals.  And Obama is on the wrong side of this revolution, just like Carter undermined the Shah of Iran.  This is a huge mistake.  We should be supporting our friends in the government of Egypt, not the revolutionaries.

Oh, you mean like how we wanted democracy in Iraq?

[The General]

Oh, you mean like how we wanted democracy in Iraq?

Exactly.  Bad Idea.   Radical Muslims don't want liberty, they want Sharia Law.

[TaoOfLuxLisbon]

Exactly.  Bad Idea.   Radical Muslims don't want liberty, they want Sharia Law.

I'm glad your consistant on the issue. Most on the right are not and still knob slob the Cheney Administration for "liberating" Iraq.

[Lena]

The Obama administration will be remembered as the ones who 'lost' Egypt if we don't support Mubarak soon.
This is a total repeat of Carter losing Iran to radicals.  This is huge, the ramifications are going to be devastating.

You know the book "Il Principe" by Niccolò Machiavelli ("The Prince").
What happens in Egypt runs according to plan - if Mubarak steps down.

US foreign policy is only run on the surface by the president or the secretary of state.
Just imagine the fate of countries depended on people like Cocaine Bill or his frigid wife Hillary or even Barry Obama, a cokehead and prone to being blackmailed by every secret service, and helpless without a teleprompter and speechwriter. Why do you think he behaves like a servant when he meets the british queen, or other royals. I guess, because he *knows* that's what he is.

CIA and MI6 already supported the Muslim Brotherhood against Nasser, and the globalist tool El Baradai has been shipped to Egypt to pose in front of Al Jazeera (british tool) cameras.
The revolution in Egypt was anticipated, probably even pushed by the IMF/globalists and various activities that lead to rising food prices in Egypt and inevitable unrest.

I guess old Mubarak was too long in power already and didn't follow 'orders' well enough anymore. So same as Saddam Hussein - they want to replace him with a new more sophisticated method of control. Al-Jazeera even 'reported' that Mubarak wants to flee to Israel, which is pretty ridiculous. They did this only to raise more anger against him obviously.

That's it in a nutshell. Meet the new boss - same as the old boss.

Maybe you heard the last Kissinger interview, where he said "this is only the first scene of the first act in a play"? He's right of course.
The US administration CAN'T speak openly in support of Mubarak, because it would put them in a bad position if he falls - which is very probable, and they want him gone anyway.

Now this tool Baradei even _demands_ Mubaraks resignation until Friday. Yeah sure, the guy represents absolutely nobody in Egypt. They just flew him in to pose for TV, right from the globalist summit in Davos/Switzerland.

ElBaradei serves on the Board of Trustees of the International Crisis Group, who on Friday issued a press release protesting the decision on behalf of Egyptian authorities to place ElBaradei under house arrest.

International Crisis Group is a shadowy NGO that enjoys an annual budget of over $15 million and is bankrolled by the likes of Carnegie, the Ford Foundation, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, as well as George Soros’ Open Society Institute. Soros himself serves as a member of the organization’s Executive Committee.

In other words, this is a major geopolitical steering group for the global elite.

By the way, Kissinger sees military men as "dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy".
PS. I am NOT a fan of his, just quoting him.

The last US President who stepped above being a servant was Kennedy, and they killed him for that.

[HAL 9000]

@ Lena et. al.

The Egyptian solution is very, very easy.

We just need to all hold hands, while singing the two songs I've attached to this post, and all will be well. We just need to "Walk Like an Egyptian," and revere "King Tut."

[attachment deleted by admin]

[attachment deleted by admin]

[sorlag]

Egyptian democracy is a BAD IDEA.  Egytptian democracy will most likely mean a rise to power for the Muslim Brotherhood.  More radical throwback Muslims.  We should be supporting the current government, it may not be perfect but it's better than what will happen there with an overthrow. 

This is almost an exact replay of the revolution in Iran that ousted the Shah and brought in the Ayatollah Khomeini.  The Shah was better than what followed with Islamic radicals.  And Obama is on the wrong side of this revolution, just like Carter undermined the Shah of Iran.  This is a huge mistake.  We should be supporting our friends in the government of Egypt, not the revolutionaries.

Islamic extremists gaining control of Egypt will mean that both sides of the Suez canal will be controlled by throwback Muslims.  Bad news.  How does $10 a gallon gas sound?

thats not true, MB is neither a terrorist organisation nor an extremist group.
we should not be supporting anybody, we should take care of our own business and leave other nations decide what is best for them, and we definitely should not be supporting dictatorships.

this has nothing to do with the revolution in Iran, which by the way, and according to all human rights watchdogs, still holds a better human rights record than the state of Israel which, according to us is a democracy and which we support with our hard earned taxpayer's cash.

Islamic extremists do not have any power in Egypt and have no chance of getting hold of power, no more than the KKK can get hold of power in the USA.

$10 a gallon sounds like we should stop relying on middle east gas, find alternatives and seriously support alternative fuel initiatives.

how does $4 a gallon sound? how does $340 a gallon sound? how does $[insert number] a gallon sound?
should we have a number above which we should sell our souls, forget our values and start killing people?
point is, that is not a valid argument, gas in Europe and Japan has been close to $10 a gallon since forever, yet none of those countries went berserk.

[The General]

thats not true, MB is neither a terrorist organisation nor an extremist group.
we should not be supporting anybody, we should take care of our own business and leave other nations decide what is best for them, and we definitely should not be supporting dictatorships.

this has nothing to do with the revolution in Iran, which by the way, and according to all human rights watchdogs, still holds a better human rights record than the state of Israel which, according to us is a democracy and which we support with our hard earned taxpayer's cash.

Islamic extremists do not have any power in Egypt and have no chance of getting hold of power, no more than the KKK can get hold of power in the USA.

$10 a gallon sounds like we should stop relying on middle east gas, find alternatives and seriously support alternative fuel initiatives.

how does $4 a gallon sound? how does $340 a gallon sound? how does $[insert number] a gallon sound?
should we have a number above which we should sell our souls, forget our values and start killing people?
point is, that is not a valid argument, gas in Europe and Japan has been close to $10 a gallon since forever, yet none of those countries went berserk.

I have no idea how to argue with someone who truly believes that Iran is superior to Israel when it comes to human rights. 

[sorlag]

I have no idea how to argue with someone who truly believes that Iran is superior to Israel when it comes to human rights.

i don't believe so, i know so, and so does everyone interested in the subject, and again: all human rights organisations reported so over and over again, compared to Iran, Israel has tarnished human rights record, this is something tangible, concrete and verifiable. Belief has nothing to do with this.

[Lena]

I have no idea how to argue with someone who truly believes that Iran is superior to Israel when it comes to human rights.

I read that in Israel marriage between Jews and non Jews, especially Palestinians is forbidden.
Christian clergy is being spit on regularly, they throw their trash at christian church entrances,
and they used white phosphorus against palestinians.
Of course they don't report this in western mainstream media often.
Israelis are deceptive, they learn to be that way from childhood on in their youth organisations.
They learn to blend into western organisations and governments while keeping their main loyalty to Israel.
You could say the US is a vassal to Israel now

Also, I am sure you know that the current situation in IRAN is a result of US "intervention".
IRAN could be a democratic Republic allied to the west today, if the US had not overthrown the
democratically elected President Mohammad Mosaddegh in '53.

Why did they overthrow him? Because BP ordered them to. Iran did not want to give their oil away "for free".
So basically the US military is the executioner and vassal of globalist corporations.
Nothing more.
I find it real comical that Americans are so proud of being in the military and "serve their country", while in reality they serve a criminal cartel of corporations, banks, and globalists, and do a disservice to their own country.

"I am an American" once got you smiles all over the Middle East, now it may get you killed, and it's the result of your own ignorance.

[The General]

i don't believe so, i know so, and so does everyone interested in the subject, and again: all human rights organisations reported so over and over again, compared to Iran, Israel has tarnished human rights record, this is something tangible, concrete and verifiable. Belief has nothing to do with this.

What human rights groups?  CAIR?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad#Human_rights

Ahmadinejad's stated long term goal is to destroy Israel.  Would you like to see that also?
If Iran nukes Israel, will you agree that it would tarnish their wonderful 'human rights' record?

[Lena]

Ahmadinejad's stated long term goal is to destroy Israel.

His goal, and that's what he really says usually is not to destroy Israel by nuking it, but to break up the governmental construct of Israel and force them to reform it, so that Palestinians get their rights, and a fair part of their own land back. You're a victim of deliberate false translations - as most Americans.

Nuking Israel wouldn't make much sense if he destroyed the Palestinians as well and their homeland in the process now, did it?

Also, a country with the highest prisoner count per capita (the USA) has no right to talk about human rights.

[The General]

Mistranslations?  Do you really believe that?  You've been fed misinformation, Lena.

Ahmedinejad on October 10, 2009
"The Zionist regime wants to establish its base upon the ruins of the civilizations of the region...
The uniform shout of the Iranian nation is forever 'Death to Israel.'..."
(Fars News Agency)

Ahmedinejad on June 3, 2007
"With God's help, the countdown button for the destruction of the Zionist regime has been pushed by the hands of the children of Lebanon and Palestine . . . By God's will, we will witness the destruction of this regime in the near future."
(Fars News Agency)

This is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg here.  If he is being mistranslated, it is by his own translators.

As for America having too many prisoners per capita, 1/3 of our federal prisoners are illegally in our country and we don't deport them.  I wish we would. 

[Lena]

both of your quotes clearly say ZIONIST REGIME.
That's what he means - the Israeli government, not to nuke them.

The only dipshits that ever nuked a country were Americans, remember?

[sorlag]

What human rights groups?  CAIR?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad#Human_rights

Ahmadinejad's stated long term goal is to destroy Israel.  Would you like to see that also?
If Iran nukes Israel, will you agree that it would tarnish their wonderful 'human rights' record?

all of them including btselem which an Israeli HR watchdog.
Ahmadi Nejad is a person, we can compare persons later maybe to someone like Ariel Sharon, but now lets stick to the subject, which is Iran as a state vs Israel as state.
Ahmadi Nejed never stated anything like that, Ahmadi Nejad was Quoting Khomeini as saying:"the occupation regime over Jerusalem should vanish from the page of time."
which is a very legitimate aspiration for such a state, especially that under UN records, Jerusalem is indeed defined as an occupied territory.

the only country in that region with Nukes is Israel, not Iran. and the only country who has ever used nukes on humans is ours.

[The General]

Considering Ahmadinejad's nuclear aspirations, sposorship of terrorism, hatred of Israel, admiration of Hitler, and denial of the Holocaust, I think it's pretty clear what he's saying.  Do you two share Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust?

And although nuking Japan was a terrible thing to do, it saved more lives than continuing the war would have.  It was a terrible choice to have been faced with, but most people agree it was justified. 

And finally, yes, let's stick to the point which is not Israel vs. Iran, it is a thread about Egypt.  Which, by the way, I am suspicious that Iran may somehow be behind this revolution in Egypt.  This did not happen over night, someone is behind it. 

[Lena]

Considering Ahmadinejad's nuclear aspirations,

I don't like Nuclear Power, but if a country wants it you have no legal ground to deny or sabotage it.

sposorship of terrorism,

like the USA? who bombed hundreds of civilians in Europe including children - CONFIRMED! with Operation Gladio?

hatred of Israel, admiration of Hitler,

Hitlier was stupid, but I don't like Israel either. It should have never been created. They stole all the palestinian land, drove them into a ghetto where they live now.

and denial of the Holocaust, I think it's pretty clear what he's saying.  Do you two share Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust?

Dogmatic beliefs are always despicable. Remember, we _knew_ the earth is the center of the universe and prosecuted people who denied it. After enough research was done, we now know it was wrong.
Researching the holocaust is being prosecuted severely in many countries, this has to stop.
The truth does not need this kind of protection, and the holocaust has been re-visioned countless times already. The 6 million number has turned out to be wrong, human body-fat soap turned out to be a lie, human skin lampshades turned out to be a lie, and there are still many questions, like why did the Soviets re-model an air-raid shelter into a makeshift gas-chamber...
So I am glad that some people still research the holocaust.

And although nuking Japan was a terrible thing to do, it saved more lives than continuing the war would have.  It was a terrible choice to have been faced with, but most people agree it was justified. 

The Japanese probably see this a bit differently, and so do I.

And finally, yes, let's stick to the point which is not Israel vs. Iran, it is a thread about Egypt.  Which, by the way, I am suspicious that Iran may somehow be behind this revolution in Egypt.  This did not happen over night, someone is behind it.

If there's somebody behind the revolution, it's the 'USA'. You just don't understand how this works, do you? Did you not read "the prince"?

[Lena]

Ahmadinejad on re-researching the facts around the Holocaust
If you actually listen to the man instead of blindly believing the bs in the media, he seems like a very intelligent and reasonable man.

[The General]

He sounds insane to me.  The holocaust is not a theory, like gravity, that needs to be tested.

[Lena]

yeah sure, and Oswald shot Kennedy, WMDs are still hiding out in Iraq, and I did not have sex with that woman no need to investigate anything.

Clinton, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman...

[sorlag]

Considering Ahmadinejad's nuclear aspirations, sposorship of terrorism, hatred of Israel, admiration of Hitler, and denial of the Holocaust, I think it's pretty clear what he's saying.  Do you two share Ahmadinejad's denial of the Holocaust?

And although nuking Japan was a terrible thing to do, it saved more lives than continuing the war would have.  It was a terrible choice to have been faced with, but most people agree it was justified. 

And finally, yes, let's stick to the point which is not Israel vs. Iran, it is a thread about Egypt.  Which, by the way, I am suspicious that Iran may somehow be behind this revolution in Egypt.  This did not happen over night, someone is behind it.

from a neutral stand point and without being biased, Iran's nuclear aspirations are justified even if they are military focused, an IDF officer lately declared that "if Iranians are not seeking nuclear weapons, then they are crazy.", we just invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, Israel invaded Libanon 5 times in the latest decades, we have a major base in SA to whom we sell high tech military gadgets almost daily,  note that SA and Iran are sworn enemies, Israel just deployed German made nuclear  submarines under the whole area, Israel never agreed to any Nuclear weapon non proliferation agreement, and never showed any interest in a nuke free Middle east, not to mention the harsh language with which we talk to Iran and which sounds more like if we actually want them to keep doing what they are doing.
so why would Iranian's or Najad not seek nuclear power? in their shoes, even Alice in wonderland would have looked for Nukes.

in the middle east region, again, only one country has Nukes and its not Iran, if we are sincere in asking Iran not to seek Nukes (no matter how arrogant this sounds considering we do have Nukes), we should start with that country first, otherwise we wouldn't make sense.

Nejad's world were mysteriously twisted on our news to become "death to Israel!", the guy also never declared  that he "Admired" Hitler nor that he was Holocaust denier, he plainly declared to CNN that claims about the Holocaust could be inflated and that he was calling for an international investigation to make things clear once and for all, that does not make him Bin laden nor Hitler nor does it make him public enemy number one.


Egyptian protests didn't come overnight, people protested against Mubarak's tyranny for two decades, (we were just tuned away) but Mubarak, with our blessing and our shielding from international scrutiny and our cash, killed any opposition and silenced any resistance either by cash or by force,  the MB members that you are suggesting is a terrorist organisation, were wrongly charged, imprisoned massively and tortured just for asking for social reform and justice, in the same prisons where Omar Suleiman, the guy who was just promoted from secret service director to VP, used to torture detainees that we couldn't torture on our land in the rendition program that occurred in the last several years.

Arabs know that, they also know because of all the above and more that we only care about Israel and that we dont give a rats arse about them, their nations or their democracy, their media happened to be more liberal and less biased than ours, it seems that they took our words and slogans that we don't follow seriously and become objective and independent, so if they don't trust us very much we should spare the world preposterous comments like: "oh its because they hate our freedom".

[RealCool Daddio]

On another note, I am LOVING the progression of Lena avatars! Thrilled with the direction they are trending!

[Bosco]

FYI   here is a link for Al Jazeera English Live stream in case you are interested.

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/2007829161423657345.html

[b_dubb]

I read that in Israel marriage between Jews and non Jews, especially Palestinians is forbidden.

to borrow a phrase from the Beastie Boys ... where'd ya get yer information from? or ... can you name your source?

few countries have a squeaky clean human rights record.  not the US.  not Israel.  not Iran.  Canada?  maybe.


i have Democracy Now on my local access cable channel.  their coverage is excellent. not limited to 3 minute bits like MSM

[Lena]

to borrow a phrase from the Beastie Boys ... where'd ya get yer information from? or ... can you name your source?


few countries have a squeaky clean human rights record.  not the US.  not Israel.  not Iran.  Canada?  maybe.

You promised not to talk to me again, and I'd appreciate if you stick to your word, cause I have no patience with bullshitters.
If you want to discuss something do it in a serious way, and don't expect me to pull out sources for you that you can easily verify yourself if you weren't such an ignorant lazy person.

[b_dubb]

You promised not to talk to me again, and I'd appreciate if you stick to your word, cause I have no patience with bullshitters.
If you want to discuss something do it in a serious way, and don't expect me to pull out sources for you that you can easily verify yourself if you weren't such an ignorant lazy person.

no i said i wasn't going to argue with you.  and mine was a serious question.  speaking of promises being kept/not kept ... you've said more than once you were going to leave the forum.  since you're keeping score


and thanks for showing your ass again.  metaphorically speaking

[MV/Liberace!]

no i said i wasn't going to argue with you.  and mine was a serious question.  speaking of promises being kept/not kept ... you've said more than once you were going to leave the forum.  since you're keeping score


and thanks for showing your ass again.  metaphorically speaking