United Breaks Guitars (and Senior citizens.)

[WOTR]

Great publicity for their airline.  I particularly love that the CEO commented that it was "an upsetting event to all of us here at United."  Yeah, probably also a little tough on the doctor who needed to see patients the next day and instead got bloodied (and probably thrown in jail) instead.

Well done United.  I cannot trust you with my guitar, or my senior citizens... Perhaps a baby or a quadriplegic should be next?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8DITlDdZzQ

[Dr. MD MD]

Great publicity for their airline.  I particularly love that the CEO commented that it was "an upsetting event to all of us here at United."  Yeah, probably also a little tough on the doctor who needed to see patients the next day and instead got bloodied (and probably thrown in jail) instead.

Well done United.  I cannot trust you with my guitar, or my senior citizens... Perhaps a baby or a quadriplegic should be next?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8DITlDdZzQ

This guy's gonna clean up in the lawsuit!  Cha-Ching!

[WOTR]

Haven't really been following it, but from what I've seen it sounds like the airline needed the space to deadhead (transport as passengers to position them for their job) their employees. Maybe they did use too much force, but once you're told to get off the plane by the crew and you refuse then this is the result (and afaik you can be arrested even if you don't resist). Maybe he was a doctor, but it's not impossible that he was trying to come up with an excuse like that in the hope of being allowed to continue his flight.

Also you don't see anyone else volunteering to go in his place.

It is their legal right.  You are not guaranteed a seat- and they did need four seats for their employees.  I'm not saying they did anything illegal, (even at that, it was not united, but the rent-a-cops who drug him off.)  I'm saying United did something very stupid.

Offering passengers $5000 to get the hell off the plane would have resulted in a lot less bad press.  You cannot buy the kind of negative press that they are presently receiving (and their CEO is not helping.)

As for the rent-a-cop, I cannot imagine looking at myself in the mirror if I tossed a 70 year old man into an armrest face first because he did not want to get off a plane...

[Taaroa]

Offering passengers $5000 to get the hell off the plane would have resulted in a lot less bad press.  You cannot buy the kind of negative press that they are presently receiving (and their CEO is not helping.)

Airline profit margins are already skin of the teeth, and paying people $5000 is not exactly appealing - especially when they have the legal right to refuse to carry someone. The most passengers can really expect (outside of the EU) is to be rebooked onto another flight and/or given accommodation, and that itself is dependent on each situation.

As for the rent-a-cop, I cannot imagine looking at myself in the mirror if I tossed a 70 year old man into an armrest face first because he did not want to get off a plane...

Here at least the federal police do it (as airports are federal land and state police don't have jurisdiction), not just random security guards. If this incident had happened here he probably would've been charged with unlawful interference with crew members for refusing an instruction, which is the same thing that covers hijackings.

[WOTR]

I think we both agree, it is their right.  I know when Westjet was going to bump me it was going to be $750 and a hotel.  I was the first in line to volunteer (I really had nowhere better to be.)

I'm just saying that they lost a lot more in very poor publicity than they would have if they had found a different way than having a senior citizen forcably removed from a flight that he paid hundreds of dollars to take. (How much do you imagine they are paying PR to try to spin this?)

It is not the legality, it is the optics.

[albrecht]

I was on a delayed flight just this weekend and there was some black guy yelling at the staff about him being "targeted because he was black" and some other ranting, etc. The attendant said "I'm done with you." And supervisor, two women, came over and talked to him. He ranted a bit and then calmed down (I noticed a cop on the periphery watching the scene.) Anyway, problem was subdued and he went back to sitting and pacing listening to whatever on over-sized headphones muttering to himself. Finally, the plane came and we all got on. Not many people on it (many gave up and left etc.) And they just gave us as much drinks as we wanted and as much peanuts and wheat thins as we wanted. Most slept but I was determined to milk them for all they got. Still hard to do being so late and so many hours at the airport. I wish I was decades younger because I could've got more than 2 G&Ts and a Bloody out of them. Got in at 4am and that sucked.
ps: I'm white and didn't feel "targeted" because there was a plane delay. Even though no bad weather and no explanation except "plane coming in was late due to maintenance issues."
some thoughts on this incident:
1) legalities vs marketing and optics (like settling a lawsuit etc, usually cheaper than fighting. Even if within your "rights" or the law, why make bad press and customer problems?)
2) why nobody else on plane would give up a spot? Especially if offered cash, first class upgrades, free flights, flying without obligation/schedule, or something?
3) what kind of doctor freaks out like this? They usually are calm under pressure and trained to be in stressful situations.
4) the air travel industry operates under such regulation (and/or deregulation,) labor issues, and tight costs (fuel fluctuations, weather, etc) that I'm always amazed that so many can stay in business- even with the limited liability imposed/agreed upon by laws and international conventions.

[Taaroa]

It is not the legality, it is the optics.

It really should be a non issue, it's just getting media play because the video is somewhat dramatic (which it wouldn't have been if the guy hadn't resisted). I think it's not really going to impact the company beyond maybe a lawsuit - people won't care or remember it in the long term and really nobody chooses or avoids an airline based on how they manhandled a guy one time.

I know when Westjet was going to bump me it was going to be $750 and a hotel

I just read that they offered $US400 and then $US800 in vouchers and a hotel before choosing people at random when no one volunteered.

[WOTR]

Bwahaha.  I'm not the only one who saw the reference.  From wikipedia:

On April 9, 2017, #unitedbreaksguitars trended on Twitter[17]. This was following the release of a video that showed United Airlines physically forcing a passenger off a plane after they overbooked the flight...

Yeah, I'm sure they really want to revisit those days of broken guitars.  I wonder if the doctor can rap? 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

[Taaroa]

3) what kind of doctor freaks out like this? They usually are calm under pressure and trained to be in stressful situations.

This mightn't be politically correct to say, but if the guy was born in China (and not just American Chinese or whatever) there is a lot of prescedent for passengers from there acting in an aggressive and disruptive manner.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbVw7entkxg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkh1KTTLuvM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-n4CCZ1vf8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M73961uIcw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycmlISlQd6A

[albrecht]

This mightn't be politically correct to say, but if the guy was born in China (and not just American Chinese or whatever) there is a lot of prescedent for passengers from there acting in an aggressive and disruptive manner.

I can see that explanation. Even when I was in school the Chinese types didn't get the idea of a line or waiting for stuff or line decorum. Here we have a phenomena where we are going to reduce our city speed limits due to incidents of deaths. Issue is, City Council won't admit, the Mexicans who don't understand crossing at zones (you might call them Zebras.) I would like to see how the "refugees" deal with Germans in this aspect! Ha. I recall waiting with them when no traffic but if no go, don't cross deals until it says cross, even an empty street- and no jay-walking.

[ItsOver]

Ha!  Freaking United.  I've refused to fly them for years.  Why?  They wouldn't know customer service if it bit them in the posterior.  The comment from their clown CEO Oscar Munoz says it all.   â€œI apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers."  "Re-accommodate?"  Someone with this attitude towards customers shouldn't even be working in a fast-food joint.   Bye, bye, United.  Enjoy your up-coming bankruptcy.

[Yorkshire pud]

The passenger was born in Vietnam, not China. Lived in the USA for twenty years. What United did isn't illegal, he broke the rules (Aircraft Captain has absolute authority on who gets on or off), but the cops or whoever hardly diffused the event. PR disaster for United.

[Yorkshire pud]

Ha!  Freaking United.  I've refused to fly them for years.  Why?  They wouldn't know customer service if it bit them in the posterior.  The comment from their clown CEO Oscar Munoz says it all.   â€œI apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers."  "Re-accommodate?"  Someone with this attitude towards customers shouldn't even be working in a fast-food joint.   Bye, bye, United.  Enjoy your up-coming bankruptcy.

Once upon a time, airlines served the customer. Now, since 9/11, they do the customers a favour by letting them get on the cattle trucks. Its the crews who get the crap, not the assholes who make the policy.

[ItsOver]

Once upon a time, airlines served the customer. Now, since 9/11, they do the customers a favour by letting them get on the cattle trucks. Its the crews who get the crap, not the assholes who make the policy.

Agree, Pud. 

[Ciardelo]

United loses $1 billion in market value after man dragged off flight

[GravitySucks]

Once upon a time, airlines served the customer. Now, since 9/11, they do the customers a favour by letting them get on the cattle trucks. Its the crews who get the crap, not the assholes who make the policy.

[Taaroa]

Once upon a time, airlines served the customer. Now, since deregulation and the advent of low cost carriers, they do the customers a favour by letting them get on the cattle trucks. Its the crews who get the crap, not the assholes who make the policy.

ftfy

[Walks_At_Night]

This mightn't be politically correct to say, but if the guy was born in China (and not just American Chinese or whatever) there is a lot of prescedent for passengers from there acting in an aggressive and disruptive manner.

I've flown to China on a number of occasions and it is always 15 hours of just pure hell.  Individually or in small groups the Chinese are a wonderful people,
any more than 5 or 6 together and they enter "China Survival" mode and it can get rather unpleasant.  Buses are worse than flights though - nothing worse
than trying to force your way onto a Bus in China



 

[Walks_At_Night]

Oh.  The subways suck too


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8rfSeGDRqg

[The King of Kings]

I wish it would have been a black or muslim woman.

The outrage would have been so much ferocious and entertaining.

The chinese don't really chimp out like the muzzies or blacks do.

[ItsOver]

I've flown to China...
any more than 5 or 6 together and they enter "China Survival" mode and it can get rather unpleasant...


Ha!  "China Survival." Time for some "China Crisis."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=765Xko2slLQ&app=desktop

[albrecht]

After my severely delayed flight the other night they gave me as many peanuts and drinks as I wanted and the stewardesses and staff even today are usually more friendly than other carriers where they often treat you, unless in business class, like you are an unwanted burden they must deal with. I don't necessary blame that (look at your average traveler these days and all of the slovenly dressing and outrage towards staff over things not in their control.)
http://www.topdogillustration.com/node/20
"For a few months, Southwest Airlines was the largest whiskey distributor in Texas and eventually the other airlines brought their prices back up."<-- not sure how TABC, or Distributors, allowed this to happen!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100000142

[Walks_At_Night]

Well maybe the Subways don't suck that bad.    I've certainly never seen anything like this on them in the PRC.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUcFwaQegEQ

*Dedicated to Miku

[Up All Night]

[Up All Night]

LA Times article puts this incident in perspective with another forced (seat) removal from a boarded passenger.

Geoff Fearns, a fare paying UA customer, was boarded onto a flight, and then forced to give up his 1st Class seat, the one he paid for, for a "more important" person.

As Fearns tells it, a United employee rushed onto the aircraft and informed him that he had to get off the plane.

“I asked why,” he told me. “They said the flight was overfull.”

“That’s when they told me they needed the seat for somebody more important who came at the last minute,” Fearns said. “They said they have a priority list and this other person was higher on the list than me.”

“I understand you might bump people because a flight is full,” Fearns said. “But they didn’t say anything at the gate. I was already in the seat. And now they were telling me I had no choice. They said they’d put me in cuffs if they had to.”

http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-united-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html

[Up All Night]

David Dao, the passenger at the center of the growing imbroglio, retained a high-powered Chicago personal injury lawyer, Thomas Demetrio.

Demetrio's practice centers on medical negligence, product liability, airplane crash and commercial litigation on behalf of plaintiffs and he has negotiated more than $1 billion in settlements, according to the firm's website.

Passenger Removed From United Airlines Flight Appreciates Support, Family Says

The lawyer for the family of Dr. David Dao, the passenger forcibly removed from a United Airlines flight, released a statement saying his family is appreciative of all the support and is focusing on his medical treatment before making any public statements.

"The family of Dr. Dao wants the world to know that they are very appreciative of the outpouring of prayers, concern and support they have received," Stephen L. Golan, one of the attorneys representing the Dao family, said in a statement, according to CNBC.

The family will not be making any public statements to the media until Dao has been released from the hospital he is undergoing treatment for his injuries, and is requesting privacy, Golan said.

Neither Golan nor Thomas Demetrio, the other lawyer representing the family, responded to request for comment from TIME.

Dao was forcibly removed from a United Airlines flight so airline employees, could be seated because they had to be in Kentucky the following day. Several videos that went viral shows Dao getting dragged through the airplane aisle by law enforcement.

United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz apologized for the incident Tuesday, acknowledging in a statement that "no one should ever be mistreated this way."

http://time.com/4735374/david-dao-family-attorney-statement-united-airllines-flight/

[Up All Night]

[Ciardelo]

United Airlines Offers Refunds as Outrage at a Violent Removal Continues

[Dr. MD MD]

If I were an enterprising lawyer right now I might be thinking class action. Some of the people on that plane seemed pretty traumatized by the event. 

[Taaroa]

David Dao, the passenger at the center of the growing imbroglio, retained a high-powered Chicago personal injury lawyer, Thomas Demetrio.

I don't think he'll win, especially with this:
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/new-video-shows-argument-that-led-to-united-airlines-passenger-being-dragged-from-plane/news-story/086a34ae08b0eb9f34beeea98a22e62b

Dr Dao is heard to say he will “make a lawsuit against United Airlines” and adamantly refuses to vacate his seat.
A police officer says to Dr Dao: “I have to drag you ... You know how this is going to end up happening, right?”
A clearly angry Dr Dao says the officer can drag him from the flight, and that he’d rather go to jail.
“You can drag me then, I don’t go. I’m staying. You’ll have to drag me,” he said.
While the officer explains to Dr Dao that not co-operating will make things “a lot harder for you”, Dr Dao interjects saying “I’d rather go to jail”.
Confused, the cop questions Dr Dao seeking to clarify what he has said.
“You’d rather go to jail that just get off the plane?” he asks.
“Yeah,” Dr Dao is heard to reply.

And here's a somewhat concise piece which does outline the aviation industry's viewpoint (ignore the 9/11 bits though imo):
https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/i-know-youre-mad-at-united-but-thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/