BellGab.com Archive

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on April 05, 2013, 01:49:15 AM
So, explain to the audience please how many firearms have been 'taken' in the last year or so?...

I said there is a big push going on now to take them away, not that they've been overly successful.  They've pretty much already done it in all the places where the residents would accept such a thing - there isn't a lot of low hanging fruit left as far as gun grabbing goes.  But there are so many cities, counties, and states, that they can't help but be successful somewhere. 

Colorado used to be a common-sense Western State.  It's interesting, over the past maybe 20-30 years or so, the Libs have been moving to the more Conservative Western States - after fouling their own states, they move out here for more opportunity, freedom, less taxes and bureaucracy, less crime and dependency, just less overall government intrusion.  Then guess what - they start voting for the same Liberal policies they had left behind, and one by one our Western States are becoming more like the Eastern and UpperMidWestern States.  It's like a slowly spreading infection.  So just this week Colorado - Colorado!! - passed some gun grabbing laws, making 'scary looking' rifles illegal.  So keep your head up, Pud, oppression is still on the march somewhere.

But if nothing else, politicians - especially at the National level, and especially in the Senate where they have to answer to an entire state and not just a safe seat in some very Liberal area - are always focusing on the next election.  All the swing states and districts have already shown Senators and House members the door in the past when they've tried to disarm their constituents, so they are understandingly leery.  Last time they tried it was when Newt and the Rs took the House for the first time in 40 years.  Which is why the Senate won't get 50% let alone 60% for anything deemed to radical.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on April 05, 2013, 01:49:15 AM

... Furthermore can you explain if what you say is true, how there has been an increase in firearms sales within the last months since the massacre at Sandy Hook; where the NRA has been cruelly mounting a campaign on the residents by telephone and media to try and shame them into forgetting any ideas about firearms control? ...

Well, enough people simply don't trust the government, and are getting guns and ammo while they can.  Something the depositors of Cyprus have recently learned the hard way - next time they hear whispers about whatever it is - in this case stealing cash right out of bank accounts, they will empty the banks immediately whether it is really going to happen or not.  So hearing whispers of more gun laws will always cause a run on guns and ammo.

You are more informed on what the NRA is doing as far as a telephone campaign than I am, but cruel?  You are an attorney, you should know better than most that bad law is most often made during an emotional response to some event.  I would suggest movement towards limiting the option of law abiding citizens to being able to defend themselves and their families is what would be 'cruel'.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on April 05, 2013, 01:49:15 AM
...  to have a body financed by and for the benefit of the armaments industry...

The NRA is financed and organized for the benefit of gun owners and others that don't own guns but stand up and defend our Constitutional rights.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on April 05, 2013, 01:49:15 AM
... to have a body ... tell the residents that they have a moral duty to be armed is disgusting and as low as I can possibly imagine...

Yeah, you keep saying that.  Back here in the real world, there are some pretty evil preditors out there, and what we have is a moral duty to stand up for our rights against an ever growing, ever more powerful, ever more encroaching and intrusive government.  And to not relinquish the right to self defense - no matter how frightened or how pro-crime and pro-criminal the Libs are.

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George knows he has no classic shows, and likely won't.  At least not in a positive way - some of his most Noorific stuff is considered classic by some.  So he's decided anything covering the old topics is now a 'classic'. 

Either that, or 'classic' is another common word he doesn't understand the meaning of.

Quote from: Falkie2013 on April 04, 2013, 05:42:15 AM

According to Brother John F on You Tube, the Russians got inside information and pulled all their money out of Cyprus banks before the freeze.

Anyone who thinks our government won't hesitate to do the same thing if the SHTF after a collapse in Europe is naive.

Once Obamacare is fully implemented, Obama will have 14,000 IRS agents to do his bidding and work to either confiscate gold and silver or force people to register it this time unlike in 1933 when people hid it. The government learned a lesson then, they won't repeat the same mistake again.

Why do you think there is a big push now to take our guns away.

Quote from: FightTheFuture on April 04, 2013, 03:55:31 PM

We get a slight reprieve on weekends, but that nimrod still has to ruin the first Sunday of the month. Does he need the frickin` dough that badly? Does he really have to f*** up that first Sunday?


It Just pisses me off!

Ian bailed.  Art bailed.  Knapp won't help him.  He has to be nervous about getting someone good in by mistake and ending up losing the show to them.

Besides, he really doesn't have anything to do or anywhere to go once he does whatever needs doing for his other gigs.

Quote from: Morgus on April 04, 2013, 03:34:42 PM
It always bugs me when Noory runs out of questions during an interview...

They mustuh hung up. Thath schtrange, wil haftuh try an git-um back.

Quote from: NowhereInTime on April 04, 2013, 11:46:35 AM
...  How can anyone be this awful and have a national show?

How can any employee anywhere be this uninterested, this unprepared - and all the while putting their energy into getting other gigs - how does that person NOT get a serious meeting with their boss? 

If it really is just about going to break at the right time, why bother learning the trade and putting in effort?

Quote from: NooryIsADouchebag on April 04, 2013, 11:22:29 AM
...  I wonder what would happen if one of us had one of these personal chats with George and politely offered him some of the great advice found on this thread. Is it even worth a shot? Did I even just ask such a stupid question?

Send him an email.  It's so funny when he responds with something that looks like it was typed by a chimp.  His favorite responses are 'low life', 'pond scum', 'get a life'. 

He's so bad at his job and acts like he isn't that it's just hilarious. 

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on April 04, 2013, 09:37:43 AM
I knew you'd manage to blame the entire global financial ruin on Obama!...

Not at all.  First off, I don't give him that much credit - he's not as bright as people seem to want him to be (i.e., the 'smartest guy in the room'), and he certainly isn't into working very hard. 

For a President, he's quite unaccomplished.  He was less than a bit player in the whole economic collapse.  Just pointing out he was there and apparently doesn't learn from his mistakes.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on April 04, 2013, 09:37:43 AM

...The banks are/weren't governed from DC..they fell over themselves (as they did in the UK-which incidentally wasn't told by DC) to throw money at anyone, and made a great deal of money from it...

So you are unaware that the banks are the most regulated industry, and those regulations come from Washingon DC (the Fed, SEC, Treasury, Senate Banking Committee, House Finance Committee), as well as the various state governments where they operate? 

When Acorn and the other pressure groups were on the march back in the '90s, insisting the banks make home loans to the poor, people with bad credit, and on homes in bad areas that wouldn't be good colateral, they were playing to the Media (of course), but also to the various Regulators.  Back then it was still very effective to just start accusing anyone involved of 'racism'.  Well, no one wanted that, and the banks made the decission to turn down the heat and just make the loans.  Fannie May and Freddie Mac lowered their standards on which home loans they would buy, so the financial institutions made the bad loans and sold them on to Fannie and Freddie. 

Investment Banks, particularly Goldman Sachs bought some of the lousy loans for what they were worth, chopped them up and created 'mortgage backed securities', and sold them for far more than the underlying loans were worth.  The rest is history - financial institutions buy and sell emormous amounts of cash, bonds, CDs, commercial paper, SWAPS, and various types of private securites every day.  When it was learned some of it was junk, the whole system froze because no  one wanted to buy any of it until they knew exactly what they were getting in these bundles of securities, which was near impossible.

The stalling economy and people bailing on the lousy loans were what kicked off the collapse.  Something would have started it eventually.  What is really responsible, and continues to this day and has been made worse because it hasn't properly been addressed yet, is all the Debt.  Corporate debt, Federal, state, city and county debt, school district, fire district, water district, park district, waste management district debt.  Household debt, foreign debt.  The US and the world is awash in it. 

Just the Federal government debt alone has gone from $10.5 Trillion to $17 trillion under Obama, and we have nothing to show for that increase.  If federal pensions, social security, and medicare are counted, the Federal debt is somewhere above $80 Trillion, depending on who is counting.  I don't think anyone has even counted up what ObamaCare has added to that total yet.

SWAPS weren't limited to investors that owned the underlying securities like they should be (yes, a good regulation).  The thieves at Goldman have retained their positions of influence in the White House (as they have in all administrations going back decades) instead of being prosecuted.


No, Obama isn't responsible for the 2008 meltdown.  He will have played a major role in engineering the next - more catistrophic - one, though.

Remember during the post mortem of the financial collapse, the trigger was home loans that people hasd stopped making payments on when the economy stalled and home prices tapered off?

Then it was pointed out people that really had no business having these loans in the first place had gotten them because groups like Acorn - with support from their allies in the Media and in Washington DC - had put pressure on financial institutions to make the loans to low income people, people with lousy credit, and on homes in crummy neighborhoods?  It turned out even a young lawyer named Barrack Obama had been involved with Acorn on these very same issues early on?  Then when it collapsed, these culprits ran for cover and denied all of it?

Here is The Human Wrecking Ball In Chief right back at work:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/obama-administration-pushes-banks-to-make-home-loans-to-people-with-weaker-credit/2013/04/02/a8b4370c-9aef-11e2-a941-a19bce7af755_story.html

This article, the quotes, the stats, the whole feel of it is nearly exactly the same as when Acorn first started this up back in the '90s. 

I like this quote fom John Taylor, president of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition (nonprofit housing organization). “It is very difficult for people of low and moderate incomes to refinance or buy homes.”  Wow, John.  No shit.  And this is a person in charge of an organization related to housing.

Any questions on why Obama hasn't been able to get the economy back on it's feet after nearly 5 years?  Not only does he not know what he's doing, he doesn't even remember what not to do from his own experiences.

Quote from: RedMichael on April 04, 2013, 05:32:11 AM

I think Noory tried to make a point in that, since the DaVinci Code was so popular "theres gotta be sumtin der". Man I wouldn't know where to start if I was listing things that were not real/factual but very popular...based on "research" on "factual history".

That reminds me of this one:

"Bigfoot may well be an extraterrestrial, because - remember Chewbacca?"
- George Noory



Yeah, Star Wars was popular, so dere mustuh been sumpthin' dere too.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on April 04, 2013, 05:55:27 AM

If non of the above transpires before 2016, will you be back to say you were wrong?

Well, some of the above has happened and is continuing.

The Fed is artificially holding interest rates down - in effect stealing the interest income that savings deposits would ordinarily be earning. 

Due to the Fed creating money from nothing - the 'Stimulous', the bailouts, the QEs I, II, and III, the $85 million a month purchase of Federal debt, and the annual $1.5 Trillion Federal deficits, the Fed is creating significant inflation on food, energy, medicine and medical care, imports, and household goods.  With more to come.

Stealing our interest income and eroding the purchasing power of our savings is no different from accessing our bank accounts and removing funds,  The people of Cyprus may even be better off since they are only geting robbed once.

And those big fat untaxed IRAs and 401(k)s are still sitting our there like fat targets for Nancy Pelosi and Barrack Obama to steal.

Quote from: Falkie2013 on April 04, 2013, 05:42:15 AM

According to Brother John F on You Tube, the Russians got inside information and pulled all their money out of Cyprus banks before the freeze...

As did the Presidents relatives.  Apparently the Cyprus Bank had branches and subsidiary banks in London and Moscow that were NOT closed when the branches in Cyprus were.  There were also exceptions made which allowed some to withdraw money such as businesses having bills due on international purchases and contracts.

Shockingly, it looks as if this is going to fall on the middle class, farmers, and small businesses.  Like it always does.  Regardless of what politicians promise when they talk about 'getting the rich'.  That always sells, and just enough people are always going to fall for it.

One way to find out about Cyprus is to see how many bank executives and political officials end up dying in 'accidents' over the next 6 months or so.  I'm guessing the fatality rate for those people will not have a statistical difference from the usual, showing the Russians, the rich, and the connected indeed got out ahead of time.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on April 04, 2013, 02:56:44 AM

Jeeze, you really do see bogey men! I thought you were making it up. So because I (genuinely) don't like red, and blue is my favourite colour I'm a right wing bigot? Yeah..I can see how that might work. Your ingrained aversion to anything you perceive not right (as in political right) is frankly a joke. I bet you won't even sleep on the left side of a bed. The thing is (and this is the irony) your ideology about minimalism government and giving the people more of a say away from large government is socialism. But as you refuse to accept that, you'll continue with your misguided assertions.

Yeah the First Family attends a racist, America hating, Black Liberation Theology church for 20 years, then shows up on Inaugaration Day all of them wearing those colors - Red for blood and Black for the people, since you obviously don't know - and even though he plays class warfare constantly and has Carter-esque economic and foreign policies, it somehow turns out he's really a right-winger, the symbology was a coincidence, and I'm seeing a bogey man.  Sheesh.

Anyone - anyone - sitting in that church knows the meaning of those colors, even if no one else is paying attention.

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Quote from: Girlthulhu on April 04, 2013, 02:13:17 AM
Yeah, I about lost it whenever he said "Do you think it's a portal?" God, always a damn portal with this guy.

I would love to hear him try to explain what a portal even is.  I doubt he could.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on April 02, 2013, 05:08:06 AM

I've pointed this out ad infinitum when pointing out that Obama isn't left by any stretch; But it doesn't 'fit' the desire to dislike anything that has democrat in it's name, so it's ignored.

Yes you have said this on several occasions.  And you've gotten plenty of responses - definitions, examples, none of it was accepted. 

I will admit I don't know much about a Parlimentary system.  I think I know how political parties work though.  Political parties are there to expand and grow their power.  They all support Big Government and think government is the answer to just about any problem.  The people that don't believe this don't tend to have careers in government or form political parties, unless they reach the point of outrage.

I would suggest that in a Parlimentary system, with so many parties believing in Big Government and vying for power, that they all mostly fall in a small range from Left of Center to just short of extreme Leftism.  A single party rarely gets 50% of the vote, and doesn't need to, so there is no reason to appeal to voters that don't support their Big Government ideals.  There are no 'Right Wing' parties.  Parties called 'Right-Wing in Europe are really Leftist parties that want immigration stopped or reversed.

Here in the US, with only 2 parties (the 3rd parties very seldomly get anyone elected), each has to expand from it's base to try to reach around half the population.  Both parties are of course run by people that believe in Big Government.  The population here in the US still consists of A LOT of people that don't see government as the answer to every problem, and more taxes as the funding for those solutions.  Because they have to get over 50% of the vote, at least one party is going to try to cater to those people, while the the European parties don't have to get half the vote and thus all try to appeal to the same pool of Big Government voters.

So when someone like Obama comes along, he is seen by the Europeans as a typical 'Center' politician, but here in the US he is the most radical Leftist we've ever had (with apologies to Wilson, FDR, and Carter).  In Europe, all or nearly all the candidates are some variety of Leftist, while here in the US the Presidential candidates have to appeal to the center where the swing votes are.

This ObamaCare grab alone qualifies him as far Left.  It is much more than the advocated and our 'Media' has told us - people have gotten complacent about it since the worse of it hasn't gone into effect yet.  Yet.


So on the real continuum from Left to Right, Obama is very Left.  Because ALL your politicians are on one spot on the continuum and still find things to fight about, it appears to you they occupy the entire Left/Right range.  They don't.

Here is our 'non-Leftist' President at his first inauguration.  The red and black motif is not an accident.

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Quote from: morphiaflow on April 02, 2013, 08:06:39 PM
Duh. That's EXACTLY what they're "supposed" to do. And far too often that's all they HAVE done and DO.

Ultimately it's kind of like the famous (language alert) dick/pussy/asshole speech from Team America. Except that by and large, for me, American politics is much simpler. The right are bullies, the left are pussies; when the right has the power, they do what the fuck they want and make NO apologies to anyone; when the Left has the power, they usually whine and snivel and still act like pussies who know they're going to get caught by the bullies again someday--even while those selfsame bullies are trying to pass themselves off as the "victims" of the bully left. It's a vicious, ugly cycle and is a big part of the reason why regardless of where I might identify idealogically, I just want no part of, or as little as necessary. And mind you, this is not an admission of me being a "lib" or endorsing liberal politics or thinking. Honestly there are things about the left I detest just as much as on the right. But in the end, I don't FEAR the left the way I fear the right....

Oh MorfiaFlow, I don't want to get into another unpleasant exchange with you, in the past I've enjoyed your posts regarding Coast to Coast and George Noory - but do you really think the Right are the bullies and the Left aren't?  I'd say there is plenty in each party these days.

You don't hear all the name calling from the Libs?  It's been pretty loud and constant for decades now.  The Conservatives finally firing back at the same level is a fairly new phenonomen.   Decades long charges of racism - you are familiar with that, yes?  'Hitler', 'Nazi', the Rs 'hate women, children, old people', they 'want to poison the air and water', on and on.  A bunch of bigots.  You are unfamiliar with this? - my contention is it is so ingrained that people not on the receiving end of it don't even hear it anymore - even when they are the ones repeating it. 

Are you familiar with the case of Sarah Palin, and other Conservatives in the public eye?  Any bullying or piling on there? 
 

The Right gets into power and do 'what the fuck they want', and the Left just 'act like pussies' when they get in?  If that's the case, can you explain how over the decades spending just grows and grows, government just grows and grows and gets ever more intrusive, a higher and higher portion of our paychecks go to an ever wider variety of taxes - income tax, sales tax, payroll tax, property tax, extra tax on gasoline, taxes that businesses pay more and more of that they have to pass on to customers in the form of higher prices.  Regulations on business grow and grow.

Given all that, how is it the R's 'do whatever they want', and the D's 'do nothing'?  Other than the occasional reduction in Federal tax rates, it seems to me the Rs are never able to reduce any of the rest of it when they get in, but the Ds ratchet this stuff up to the next level when they get in. 

When you see policies get passed you don't like, do you pay attention to which parties are controlling the House and Senate and how the Media operates in supporting or resisting the legislation, or do you just see which party the President is in and assign blame based on that?

Quote from: McPhallus on April 03, 2013, 05:37:53 PM


I don't know that anyone in radio really cares about ads.  I've heard many ads for obviously bullshit products on just about every station I've ever listened to.  Complain if you want, but they'll sell ads to anyone willing to form over the cash.

Yes, but how many of them go out of their way to say they personally investigate every product and sponsor to make sure it's something that would be of benefit and value to the listeners, blah, blah, blah, that they don't have to take the ads if they don't want, and won't?  Then proceed to have these type of sponsors.

Just George. 

Quote from: Roy Hinkley on April 03, 2013, 01:42:23 AM
As Snoorge would say, "Ya got that right".  He is such a slimy car salesman BS'er.  Just on looks alone I would not trust a guy like Georgie.  Then once you hear him, case closed that he is such a BS'er just oozing snake oil from his very pores.  I've run across people like Georgie in life and they are just dirty and creepy.  I just can't wait to go home and shower after talking with them.  Never believe a word they say, as they only look out for their own interests, etc., etc., etc.... The worst part is when they think they are smarter than they actually are.  That can be annoying, but also fun to mess with them.

And on top of all that, he's such an odd creature.  Watch a few minutes of video, he's jerky, fidgety, strange hand gestures - he moves the same way he talks, it's all just a little bit off.

Quote from: Roy Hinkley on April 03, 2013, 01:34:16 AM
... the other night when someone called in and asked Georgie about the work at home ad.  They figure if he says something or endorses something it must be okay.  He fumbled some generic response, but didn't really answer the question...

He used to claim that he wouldn't have a sponsor if he didn't personally check it out and make sure it was something beneficial to his listeners.  Or something like that.  In his most sincere radio guy voice.

I think it's just something he decides to say that sounds good, but when a new sponsor comes on and he's doing the voice over he's just thinking about the money. 

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Quote from: WOTR on April 02, 2013, 01:40:22 AM
... On a final note, what was Leer thinking doing this?  Did he sit around thinking that he has such a reputation that he has credibility to burn so he should allow Noory to use him?  He is already on the fringe and should, perhaps, try not to make fun of himself if he expects others to take his alien implant crap seriously.

He figures anyone that still believes a word of it won't start to question any of it now, now matter what he says or does.  Same with the rest of George's regulars.

Quote from: Scully on April 02, 2013, 12:10:24 AM

I'm wit ya all the way, Pal.  It IS a tragedy that so many intellects have been twisted so badly.  Constantly amazes me that intelligence has little to do with it.  The reasons are many, I think. 

Well, when we have a border wide open, an estimated 20-30 million or more mostly poor illegal aliens in our country, tax dollars we don't have being spent on medical, schooling, housing, food stamps, welfare, jail space, all the social programs for them.  Emergency rooms closing down because they have to take everyone that shows up, then not getting paid or reimbursed, and ending up operating at a loss.  An enormous amount of crime, cartels and gangs moving in, ranches and parkland along the border getting trashed, border agents being shot. 

We have the Obama Administration suing border states that are trying to address the problem, winning the cases, then sitting back and allowing it to go on unaddressed.  We have the Obama Administration handing out guns to the the cartels - remember the Fast and Furious program? - then not tracking them, then refusing to answer qustions Congressional oversight committees have when people end up being killed by these same weapons on both sides of the border (Obama abused Executive Privilege in telling Congress to shove their investigation).   We have Phoenix as the number two kidnapping city in the world, after Mexico City. 

We don't need what has happened to Mexico with the Narco-terrorists  - a formerly beautiful, friendly, fairly safe, law abiding country - making more inroads here than it already has.

Yeah, people are going to get upset.  Very upset.  Yet I don't see anyone shooting 'all brown people at the border'.   Do you?   No.   Because it's BS. 

I don't have anythng against the people from Mexico or anywhere else in Latin America.  The people from there I know or interact with are pretty friendly.  Nearly all just want a better life.  But this is our country, and we need to take in people only as fast as we can absorb them - especially now with poor economic conditions and jobs that are scarce, we need to screen applicants for cartel and gang members. We need to know who is coming in.  The idea that anyone opposing a completely open border must be a person that just wants to shoot brown people is so fucked up that I can't even believe I have to read it and see it supported - by seemingly intelligent people.  No wonder we get people like Barrack Obama in office.


What I have seen, though, since at least the Reagan Administration, is the Democrats and Liberals calling anyone that opposes any of their policies or appointees, or challenging them on anything, Nazis, making Hitler references, calling them racists.  Routinely.  They also do the same thing when anyone else proposes policies they don't like.  It's so ingrained in the popular culture by now that people just seem to throw it into any conversation as if it's just something everyone knows and accepts as true.  I see these comments as more of the same, unless someone can site specific comments specific peole make that are truly racist, and not just policy differences.

And guess what. After 40 years of it, some people are finally starting to push back.  Want to know why the two political sides are so at each other in our society - start with this stuff.  I followed your link, Morfiaflow, and I didn't see ANY references to anyone wanting to 'shoot all brown people at the border'.  I will admit after entering those folks in the search section of the link and not finding anything like that right away, I didn't spend a huge amount of time on it.

You guys are defending that comment?  How exactly did his 'context' make it ok to accue anyone of thinking 'all brown people should be shot at the border'?   Is that really what we should be pouring into the body politic?  I hear people ask what gave the word Liberal a bad name.  Here you go.


Maybe I should have added 'The Comedy Channel feeds their own pablum back to them and they're happy to eat it up, pumping their fists in the air and saying 'Thank God SOMEONE in the media has the guts to tell the Real truth'

Quote from: morphiaflow on March 31, 2013, 02:03:28 PM
.. all brown people should be shot at the border...

Get most of your information from the sages on the Comedy Channel?

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on March 31, 2013, 10:54:04 AM

I've mentioned I have several US friends in different states and I can almost identify the differences in their speech; I couldn't though listen to a selection of voices (other than my friends) and tell you where they might be from unless there were (to my ear) obvious markers. I can tell a NY accent (narrowed down to about 1000 sq miles!), a Boston ish one..GA, FL, AL, TN, NC, SC all sound the same to me (sorry!) It's when it goes west of there I get really lost!! I might be able to identiify a CA accent, but I couldn't stake my life on it..TX I (think) I could spot. I tried to do a sort of aide memoir kind of test with a friend from UT, and would e mail YT vids where there was speech and ask where they might be from; and answer came back telling me where they were likely from and how to differentiate (I was still non the wiser!)..The odd thing is I can pretty much narrow down to within about twenty miles or so accents in my immediate area (2500 sq miles) which might seem a big area, but it isn't really...

Here is an archive of languages and accents.  This link should be their recordings of spoken English page. 

http://accent.gmu.edu/browse_language.php?function=find&language=english


They seem randomly gathered, there are several just from around the SF Bay Area, maybe they originally gathered them from anyone that would send them their recorded comment.  Anyway...


Here in Northern people tend to think we don't have accents because we speak the way they do on TV, but 'Californian' actually has a slight drawl.  I wonder if speech around the country is evolving towards that California accent due to TV and movies

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on March 31, 2013, 07:04:39 AM

I'd agree entirely; and I'd go further. We imported it from you (like the hoola hoop) so it won't come as a surprise that under Blair (ratified in parliament) anti terrorist laws were introduced, fair enough..The thing is, those same laws that any reasonable person would presume to be used against terrorists have been used by the police on lawful demonstrations and people simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time on entirely innocent business...

Before all that, we had the RICO Act - Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations - it was supposed to be an anti-mob law that ended up being abused and turned on seemingly whoever they wanted.  And when it was, those people were absolutely screwed, almost without recourse.

We can't expect to hand over large portions of our freedom, give more and more power to government supposedly to 'do good', and not have this stuff as a consequence.  It's just human nature.  It's breathtaking how much and how fast this has grown in the past 40 or 50 years.

Quote from: West of the Rockies on March 30, 2013, 08:56:55 PM
I'll disagree with you, Paperboy, in particular on that last point about Obama wanting to see our system destroyed.  I think he's got too much skin in the game now.  He's a multimillionaire, I'm sure.  He leads a lifestyle now that most of us can only imagine.  Oh, he's not as wealthy as a Romney, but I can't imagine he'd want to scrap it all in this interests of returning power to the people in the way socialism seems to suggest. 

This is a bit off-topic, but I get rather nervous anytime a politician is willing to spend a fortune in the pursuit of power.  We had a woman run for governor here in California a few years ago (Meg Whitman, former CEO of E-Bay).  She spent something like 110 MILLION of her own dollars for a position that pays, what, $250,000 a year?  I don't think she did it because of some great patriotic or humanitarian desire to do good.  I think she saw a chance to possibly fix the game from inside and make back the money later.  Sadly, the majority of our politicians are now wealthy attorneys.  They're holding the rule book and not letting us really see it.  They change the rules to suit them through such things as "signing statements" for which W really made a name for himself (with Barack following in his footsteps). 

Well, enough pontificating from me.  What the hell do I know anyway?  Have a good evening y'all.

Yeah, the people that rise to power tend to think that system is the greatest ever.  It chose them after all.  It's a shock when someone like Gorbachev turns against it.  I've wondered if Obama's ideological leanings may have turned at least ever so slightly.  His wife sure enjoys the good life vacationing all over the world.  He sure golfs a lot and they hold a lot of parties.

I live in Calif too.  Remember Michael Huffington running for Senate awhile back - another multi-multi-millionaire that spent a ton of his own money to get a Senate seat that couldn't possibly pay what he's spent.

I think these people run for the power.  They have enough money.  I'd say they run to make a real change, but Huffington and Whitman were 'Moderates', which to me means no real strongly held convictions.  They don't need high office to make more money - there have to be easier ways where they don't have to campaign, spend time in committee, talk to constituents, etc.  In addition to the power, I think for them it's also about being even more high profile - like a billionaire buying a sports team.  They're bored.