President Donald J. Trump

[Dr. MD MD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBMWrBP6yn4

[PB the Deplorable]

Not so fast Paper Boy*  It seems your opinions aren't exactly on the pulse of the public when it comes to healthcare options in 2016.

I headed over to your Gallup Poll and found results from this year showing a majority support for a federally funded (single-payer) healthcare system. As Bernie called it, Medicare for all. And I might also point out Medicare is not free, premiums are based on income as I suggested for a single-payer system earlier.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/191504/majority-support-idea-fed-funded-healthcare-system.aspx

And speaking of Medicare...your words, not mine, of a "competent, streamlined, well-run bureaucracy." Medicare comes close. Seniors are contacted up to a year before their eligibility at age 65 and assisted through the application process. It does what it was designed to do. It is not broken, and it needs no fix.

BTW, when someone like Ryan (who enjoys a taxpayer-funded premium health care plan) threatens to cut seniors off their Medicare, he's writing his own resignation.

Well, let's see.  Gallup Polls were probably mostly honest back in 2009.  Have they joined the Fake News Dems trying to get Hilary elected and Trump discredited?  Dunno, haven't looked into it.

The 2009 poll was about people keeping what they had, vs whatever Pelosi and Obama were cooking up.  That was no contest.  To the extent ''single-payer'' is supported (before being offered something specific, before seeing any ''single payer'' details, and before the downside is explained), ObamaCare has gone as intended.  Those rats never wanted it to be successful, just a piece of crap doomed to fail so ''single-payer'' would be an easier sell down the road.

And Medicare?  When the only thing a person listens to is news from people who are dedicated to an ever growing, bigger more powerful government, then they may not realize Medicare is not fiscally sound, and is the same type of Ponzi-scheme Social Security is.  That it's working now and people like it doesn't mean it's stable

[Yorkshire pud]

We have the best healthcare in the world. 

As of 2016, not even in the top ten. England is number 6.

http://gazettereview.com/2016/04/countries-with-the-best-health-care/

It also has an infant mortality rate worse than Greece, Cuba and South Korea.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934744.html


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447691/

Lessons for the USA, dated 2003

[ItsOver]

I fully expect that with butterflies found in Japan as the story points out.

Shit.  You'd think they would have learned their lesson after screwing around with moths.

[PB the Deplorable]

As of 2016, not even in the top ten. England is number 6.

http://gazettereview.com/2016/04/countries-with-the-best-health-care/

It also has an infant mortality rate worse than Greece, Cuba and South Korea.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934744.html

Well, again, if you take out the black underclass, not to mention the 10s of millions of illiterate poor and/or unhealthy people here from the third world, the stats would be significantly different. 

We've been all through why this is, who's responsible, why it hasn't been addressed - let alone fixed, etc, and why it's more accurate to use the rest of the US in any comparisons

[Yorkshire pud]

Well, again, if you take out the black underclass the stats would be significantly better.  We've been all through why this is, why it hasn't been addressed - let alone fixed, etc, and why this skews the national stats.

You said the USA has the best healthcare, not who was or wasn't able to access what is available.

Your healthcare is and has been for many decades been for the provision of what the insurance companies, pharmacies and pharmaceutical companies can dream up between them. It isn't first and foremost for the patient, nor is it geared for medics to decide care on medical need.

Get rid of the scam of the first three, and you may have a chance of providing cover for the patient and allow the medics to do their job based on need, rather than if the insurance company deems the patient worthy.

You're welcome.

[PB the Deplorable]

You said the USA has the best healthcare, not who was or wasn't able to access what is available.

Your healthcare is and has been for many decades been for the provision of what the insurance companies, pharmacies and pharmaceutical companies can dream up between them. It isn't first and foremost for the patient, nor is it geared for medics to decide care on medical need.

Get rid of the scam of the first three, and you may have a chance of providing cover for the patient and allow the medics to do their job based on need, rather than if the insurance company deems the patient worthy.

You're welcome.

You don't know what you're talking about.  All you've heard are a few negative anecdotes, the twisted facts you've just offered repeated ad nauseam, and the Fake News folks who are hell bent on selling us a Euro-style ''single-payer'' system because that's what fits their interests and political philosophy.

That you know some Lib here who's also been convinced they want ''single-payer'' means zero.

[Dr. MD MD]

Hey, pud! You better get in line and shape up, man! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEuFrW8CUp4

[21st Century Man]

Shit.  You'd think they would have learned their lesson after screwing around with moths.

LOL.  Good one,  IO.

[akwilly]

My point is that due to the actual distance from Fukushima, any radioactivity from rain that falls in North America save for maybe Alaska will be heavily diluted due to the distance the storm must travel.  I'm not saying radiation will not reach America.  I, for one, would hesitate to eat anything that came from the northern hemisphere of the Pacific Ocean.

As to what happens to the radiation of the water molecule when it evaporates, I'm not sure.

I have not heard one instance of an alaskan salmon with any radioactivity due to the Japan thing

[21st Century Man]

I have not heard one instance of an alaskan salmon with any radioactivity due to the Japan thing

I was wondering about that.  Thank you for clarifying that situation, willy.

[Jackstar]

We have the best healthcare in the world. 

[Jackstar]

I have not heard one instance of an alaskan salmon with any radioactivity due to the Japan thing

I know I feel safer.

[(Sandman) Logan-5]

[CornyCrow]

So let's put the people like those who run the VA in charge?  Does that sound like a good idea?  Why or why not? 

Does anyone really think government bureaucrats will run things more efficiently while keeping current service and quality levels the same?  I realize it sounds great, it really does, but after 100 years of trying in various industries, various countries, under various leaders, where is the evidence government can run business more efficiently than the private sector?  I'd like to see the proof before handing over my heath care to the people running the post office and DMV.

Remember when this full-of-himself blowhard decreed ''we're the ones we've been waiting for''?  Well, he's been a remarkably lousy president - on all fronts - so apparently there's a bit more to it than ego, good intentions, and strong cheerleading section. 

Why would anyone think the next one up will really be the one we've been waiting for, agree to surrender decisions regarding our medical care to a bunch of politicians, and think we're going to get more and better for less?  What sane person who's been paying attention would agree to this?

Well, the governments in Europe certainly get better prices for drugs than private industry gives us here. 
Remember Ralph Nader and that car that would spontaneously combust that the manufacturer kept selling even though they knew it was killing people?  Auto companies, even now, do a cost benefit analysis when deciding to take a car off the market.  They are willing to tolerate (pay for) the deaths of a certain number of people because it is cheaper than retooling.  Then, if you are anywhere near a city that half a century ago had thick smog from auto pollution, you must notice now how much cleaner the air is after all those mandated pollution controls with which the government regulates the auto industry. 

[CornyCrow]

My point is that due to the actual distance from Fukushima, any radioactivity from rain that falls in North America save for maybe Alaska will be heavily diluted due to the distance the storm must travel.  I'm not saying radiation will not reach America.  I, for one, would hesitate to eat anything that came from the northern hemisphere of the Pacific Ocean.

As to what happens to the radiation of the water molecule when it evaporates, I'm not sure.

Any radiation in the environment stays, even when the molecule evaporates.  It has a long half-life.  It just gets absorbed elsewhere.  It's like when you get an xray - that radiation stays in your body for life.  If you get enough they just pile on until you get cancer.  I avoid xrays as much as possible.  If I have to get one, I will pay many times more for a state of the art dentist or teaching hospital where the equipment is newer and the rads they put out are less.  I avoid these diagnostic centers and traveling mamogram trucks because they buy OLD equipment off the used market and deliver high rads.  CAT scan give a horrendous amount of radiation.  Try to avoid them.

[CornyCrow]

But isn't that how it would end up? 

For every lousy insurance company story you have, I can show you one of government bungling, laziness, incompetence, non-responsiveness, unaccountability, and waste.  For the vast majority of treatment, it runs pretty smoothly, considering the maze you've described (and that I'm not arguing with). 

I agree it's bureaucratic, but we need less of that, not more.  Why not try some market based reform for those who have insurance and can pay for it, and assistance for those who can't, instead of Obama's ham-fisted monstrosity or some Euro-style thing I doubt would work here and that no one wants?

Aren't the main reasons costs are up is because it's so expensive to develop new drugs, the price of an education to produce a doctor is also sky-high, malpractice insurance premiums are sky-high, and our hospitals and doctor's offices are considerably better equipped than those elsewhere with up to date medical equipment?  The cost of all these things is increasing too.  I'm pretty sure insurance companies aren't earning excessive profits compared to other service industries - maybe we should look at that and see, don't they file fairly detailed financial information with the SEC?

Medical accidents are the third leading cause of death in this, a primarily corporate medical system. 

[CornyCrow]

I can do better than that.  I can show you a Gallup Poll about customer satisfaction industry wide, taken when Obama and the fascists were busy cramming ObamaCare down our throats.  Most of the country was dead set against it, with a strong majority happy with the healthcare insurance they had.  According to Gallup, late 2009:

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/23/gallup-80-satisfied-with-health-care-61-with-insurance/

In fact, in reaction to his healthcare grab, the good people of Massachusetts - Massachusetts! - elected (R) Scott Brown to replace the dead (D) Ted Kennedy, removing the Ds 60-vote filibuster-proof Senate majority.  Showing that was no fluke, the rest of the country handed the House back to the Rs as soon as they could - in the election of 2010.  These elections were clear referendums on government interference in our healthcare.  Obviously the proles weren't ready to toss out the insurance companies for the bureaucrats.

The election of 2014, when the country gave the Senate back to the Rs, and the 2016 victory this year weren't exactly revolts against the insurance companies in favor of 'single payer' either. 

So I'm not sure we're quite to the point in our country where socialism is the default and the proponents of capitalism need to be the ones proving it to keep it.  Anyway, about those competent, streamlined, well run bureaucracies I asked about... ?

Both parties knew something had to be done to cut healthcare costs.  The Republicans thought it might as well be done by a Democrat so they wouldn't be blamed for the firestorm that HAD to follow implementation. 

[CornyCrow]

I have not heard one instance of an alaskan salmon with any radioactivity due to the Japan thing

'Some fish, referred to as pelagic species, roam the open ocean and can travel across oceans. One such species is the bluefin tuna, which, in addition to being an endangered species due to overfishing, made the news recently when samples of tuna caught off southern California were found to contain radioactivity traceable to Fukushima.'

http://www.beachapedia.org/Radiation_From_Fukushima

[Juan]

Remember Ralph Nader and that car that would spontaneously combust that the manufacturer kept selling even though they knew it was killing people?

No, I don't remember, nor can I find it with a search.  What car was it?

I remember Nader mainly for the Corvair.  The earlier versions had road stability problems, in part caused by gas station attendants not understanding proper tire inflation on a rear engined car.

[Dr. MD MD]

No, I don't remember, nor can I find it with a search.  What car was it?

I remember Nader mainly for the Corvair.  The earlier versions had road stability problems, in part caused by gas station attendants not understanding proper tire inflation on a rear engined car.

I think it was the Pinto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zKNBVVrWos

[CornyCrow]

No, I don't remember, nor can I find it with a search.  What car was it?

I remember Nader mainly for the Corvair.  The earlier versions had road stability problems, in part caused by gas station attendants not understanding proper tire inflation on a rear engined car.

In 1965, Ralph Nader had brought automobile safety to the public's attention with his book Unsafe at Any Speed. Government was just beginning to regulate automobile safety in those days, but Ford had a way of getting around it. Lobbyists for Ford and other auto-makers convinced the government to delay regulations on fuel tanks for eight years.

One of the tools that Ford used to argue for the delay was a "cost-benefit analysis" of altering the fuel tanks. According to Ford's estimates, the unsafe tanks would cause 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries, and 2,100 burned vehicles each year. It calculated that it would have to pay $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury, and $700 per vehicle, for a total of $49.5 million. However, the cost of saving lives and injuries ran even higher: alterations would cost $11 per car or truck, which added up to $137 million per year. Essentially, Ford argued before the government that it would be cheaper just to let their customers burn!

Of course, the public eventually learned that the Pinto had a tendency to explode in rear-end collisions, and victims and their families sued the company. Jurors were outraged over Ford's low value of human life and awarded the victims huge settlements. However, the final shocker came when Ford actually got around to fixing the flawed gas tanks. It turns out that the "cost-benefit analysis" that Ford submitted to the government was entirely bogus: the cost of fixing each car was not $11, but merely one dollar.'

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Pinto.htm

He also went against GM:
' It was later determined that starting in early February 1966, GM sent investigators to spy on Nader and look into his personal life in an effort to discredit him.'

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/auto-safety-crusader-ralph-nader-testifies-before-congress

Here’s the list of the most dangerous cars in history:

1. Ford Pinto (1971-1980)
2. Briggs & Stratton Flyer (1915-1925)
3. Peel Trident (1966)
4. Chevrolet Corvair (1960-1963)
5. Bricklin SV-1 (1974-1976)
6. Yugo (1985)
7. Smart ForTwo (2009)
8. Ford Mustang (1984-1988)
9. Chevrolet Corvette (1984-1988)
10. Kia Rio (2009)

https://theweeklydriver.com/most-unsafe-cars-history-ford-pinto-chevrolet-corvair/

Sorry, there are more articles but the senior bus is going to pick me up soon for our weekly grocery run. 

[SredniVashtar]

Well, again, if you take out the black underclass, not to mention the 10s of millions of illiterate poor and/or unhealthy people here from the third world, the stats would be significantly different. 

When I read this I assumed you'd been huffing paint again, but on the off-chance that you might have written this sober...

I'm not going to point out how this reads, lest I be accused of 'identity politics' (top contender for 'most tedious neologism of 2016') but surely a bright guy like you can see how stupid this looks, if not vaguely sinister? It's on a par with that nonsense about 'oh, take out all the 3 million votes more that Hillary got, then she lost'.

You summed up the whole fallacy of the free market there, in a couple of deliriously piffling lines: just ignore the bits about life that are uncomfortable, or you don't want to look at, and everything's hunky dory!

[akwilly]

When I read this I assumed you'd been huffing paint again, but on the off-chance that you might have written this sober...

I'm not going to point out how this reads, lest I be accused of 'identity politics' (top contender for 'most tedious neologism of 2016') but surely a bright guy like you can see how stupid this looks, if not vaguely sinister? It's on a par with that nonsense about 'oh, take out all the  3 millions votes more that Hillary got, then she lost'.

You summed up the whole fallacy of the free market there, in a couple of deliriously piffling lines: just ignore the bits about life that are uncomfortable, or you don't want to look at, and everything's hunky dory!

an easy fix than, if you don't pay taxes then you don't get to vote....

[SredniVashtar]

an easy fix than, if you don't pay taxes then you don't get to vote....

First of all you'd have to make sure that you elected a president that paid their taxes too, but that seems to be too much to ask for in the current climate.

[PB the Deplorable]

When I read this I assumed you'd been huffing paint again, but on the off-chance that you might have written this sober...

I'm not going to point out how this reads, lest I be accused of 'identity politics' (top contender for 'most tedious neologism of 2016') but surely a bright guy like you can see how stupid this looks, if not vaguely sinister? It's on a par with that nonsense about 'oh, take out all the 3 million votes more that Hillary got, then she lost'.

You summed up the whole fallacy of the free market there, in a couple of deliriously piffling lines: just ignore the bits about life that are uncomfortable, or you don't want to look at, and everything's hunky dory!

Ok, you're right.  We have third world medical care, and we should have let the insufferable left in California and New York pick our president

[SredniVashtar]

Ok, you're right. 

You're welcome. The first one is free, but if you want anything else explained then I shall have to charge my regular consultancy rates.

[akwilly]

First of all you'd have to make sure that you elected a president that paid their taxes too, but that seems to be too much to ask for in the current climate.

good point you bastard

[Juan]

Unsafe At Any Speed was about the Corvair.  They did't explode.

The Pinto sedan version (not the hatchback or station wagon) had the gas filler in the very back of the car.  That model could catch fire in a rear end collision where the gas filler was impacted.  That's not spontaneous.

[Yorkshire pud]

You don't know what you're talking about.  All you've heard are a few negative anecdotes, the twisted facts you've just offered repeated ad nauseam, and the Fake News folks who are hell bent on selling us a Euro-style ''single-payer'' system because that's what fits their interests and political philosophy.

That you know some Lib here who's also been convinced they want ''single-payer'' means zero.

You do seem to assume things. Then you get into your usual trite rant about where and how I get my information from, but ignore the thrust of the point.

The list I posted about the top ten, had almost all European 'socialised' healthcare..
This one by Forbes, ranks the USA 11th. The UK first. The USA has for many years the most expensive health 'service' on the planet.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2014/06/16/u-s-healthcare-ranked-dead-last-compared-to-10-other-countries/

On another forum, a member is a retired top manager in the NHS. He mentioned in one thread that they (in the 80's) had a visit from his US equivalent to see how it was done. The American deligation told him privately; "whatever you do, don't follow the US model on healthcare, I wish we could have yours".

Lt Uhura stated that good health starts with the patient doing things to help themselves. The USA has the fattest population on the planet by far. The moment any politician points this out, and tries to make inroads in educating healthy lifestyles, they're jumped on as being commies for trying to tell people what to do.
Well, clearly, some do need showing, because they don't have the self will or intelligence to do it themselves. And more often than not, pass it to their equally fat children. The food and drink lobby is massive; billboards, TV, net all vying to sell more shit to make America more fat. Will they be paying for heart operations? Unlikely.