Live Shooters Las Vegas Several Dead at Mandalay Bay

[Dr. MD MD]

Perhaps if you are spreading the gospel, you should do a little analysis of your own instead of doing your excellent parrot impersonation...

If he had the proof, why not post it instead of a drawing?  Yes, if it is true it is interesting.  However, writing numbers and saying "you cannot hear it with your ear, but trust me... I did the analysis" is fucking stupid.  And then I'm supposed to waste days of my time to research programs to do the analysis (shocking... He did not even bother to let us know what he used to analyze it... Just that he "ran the numbers")  The only reason you will let him away this this level of obscurity is because he is confirming your already held beliefs.

I'm guessing that is what he is relying on.  Suckers who will not confirm his analysis and just take his word for it.  If he had the proof, why not post it?  Why not actually show people?  Certainly he does not really expect any police agency to knock on his door because he has a whiteboard?  When he claims he wants to "honour the victims" then he ought to actually post the proof that would force people to look at his work instead of dots on a whiteboard, numbers, and the promise that "I used a computer program and know about math and physics."

And how gullible do you have to be to swallow it hook, line and sinker?  BTW- I ran the numbers as well and got .735 and will offer you the same proof as he offered... The word of a somebody on the internet and an audio graph.  BTW- Hoagland measured the time stamps using his

Blah, blah, blah, straw men, blah, blah, blah, insults...let me know when you have something worth reading, shithead.  :

So, you say you're a practicing Jew? 

[Swishypants]

yeah, I suppose with all the .223 out there already.   LOL make em roll their own. Wouldn't be the first calibre to be retired to the reloaders.  If they are true precision guys    they are building their own loads anyways.

True, but a lot of them are like Golfers; expensive clubs but can't play for shit! LOL!

[=Schlyder=]

The FBI/CIA can't find it's ass with both hands. Look at Syria and Ukraine. LOL! Those agency's don't allow talent to on-board anymore. They want yes-men and controllability. Not talent.

well this operation was pretty sloppy, and those were rookie numbers, for the target rich environment, so to speak. LOL so that fits exactly with some alphabet agency dufuses.

[Swishypants]

Blah, blah, blah, straw men, blah, blah, blah, insults...let me know when you have something worth reading, shithead.  :

So, you say you're a practicing Jew? 

GOD DAMNIT! We were having such a lovely discussion like adults and then here comes Dr. Detroit!

[Swishypants]

well this operation was pretty sloppy, and those were rookie numbers, for the target rich environment, so to speak. LOL so that fits exactly with some alphabet agency dufuses.

The entire ordeal has been in-effective. I am going with just an entitled man-baby until I see some real information; which will likely never happen now with all the dischord in the air over it.

[Dr. MD MD]

GOD DAMNIT! We were having such a lovely discussion like adults and then here comes Dr. Detroit!

Hey, it's not my fucking job to nurse maid every obsessive compulsive on this board, you know. 

[Swishypants]

Hey, it's not my fucking job to nurse maid every obsessive compulsive on this board, you know. 

I want to make you breakfast. Eggs over easy, Beer Brats, Hash-browns, Toast with butter, Coffee, O.J.

[Juan]

well this operation was pretty sloppy, and those were rookie numbers, for the target rich environment, so to speak. LOL so that fits exactly with some alphabet agency dufuses.

There have been no reports I’ve heard of him practicing. I would think we’d know if he went to a range. There’s a lot of desert, but someone firing a bump stock would probably attract attention. A lack of practice could account for the low kill count - though distance could, too.

[=Schlyder=]

There have been no reports I’ve heard of him practicing. I would think we’d know if he went to a range. There’s a lot of desert, but someone firing a bump stock would probably attract attention. A lack of practice could account for the low kill count - though distance could, too.

There has been mentioned he went out and practiced in the desert.

[GravitySucks]

250 yrds ... that's 750 ft.. so 750 divided by 3200 =  0.234 seconds  ....for a 5.56 round to travel 250 yards.

The math is not that simple for long range. The bullet is slowing down from the instant it leaves the barrel.

[=Schlyder=]

The math is not that simple for long range. The bullet is slowing down from the instant it leaves the barrel.

http://www.barnaul.co.nz/ballistic-charts-2/5-56-x-45-55gn

OK pick your distance on the chart...  take that distance and divide it by the velocity.   

600 yards... that's 1227 fps at POI   so 1800 feet divided by 1227 fps  = 1.466     so if we take initial velocity at that distance it's    0.58    so it is between .58 seconds, and 1.4 seconds.

[GravitySucks]

http://www.barnaul.co.nz/ballistic-charts-2/5-56-x-45-55gn

OK pick your distance on the chart...  take that distance and divide it by the velocity.   

Once again, it is not that simple. That is the velocity at the point of impact. It is a calculus problem (vaguely remembering sonething about dy/dt)

So if you took the initial velocity, dividing by that would be the shortest time, dividing by the impact velocity would be the longest time, the real answer is somewhere in between.

This calculator can show you. Just select the round and range.

http://gundata.org/blog/post/308-ballistics-chart/

[=Schlyder=]

so at 600 yards you would hear the report of a gunshot approx. 3 - 4 seconds after the shot was fired, and 2-3 seconds after impact.  Roughly, using quick rough calculations.

[GravitySucks]

so at 600 yards you would hear the report of a gunshot approx. 3 - 4 seconds after the shot was fired, and 2-3 seconds after impact.  Roughly, using quick rough calculations.

And if the bullet was shot at you and was still going at least 1100fps you would hear a sonic boom (or a crack) as the bullet passed. Unless it hit you. They say you don’t hear the one that hits you.

[=Schlyder=]

Once again, it is not that simple. That is the velocity at the point of impact. It is a calculus problem (vaguely remembering sonething about dy/dt)

So if you took the initial velocity, dividing by that would be the shortest time, dividing by the impact velocity would be the longest time, the real answer is somewhere in between.

This calculator can show you. Just select the round and range.

http://gundata.org/blog/post/308-ballistics-chart/

yes it will be a formula to do that more precise... but we don't need to get that precise.  We can come up with a number that is close enough for our purposes with rough math

[=Schlyder=]

And if the bullet was shot at you and was still going at least 1100fps you would hear a sonic boom (or a crack) as the bullet passed. Unless it hit you. They say you don’t hear the one that hits you.

yes the round would still be supersonic at that range.

[starrmtn001]

One can hear the second shooter in this video.

https://youtu.be/pZsu2Oa7HQI

[WOTR]

Blah, blah, blah, straw men, blah, blah, blah, insults...let me know when you have something worth reading, shithead.  :

So, you say you're a practicing Jew? 

Also that I shot my wife in the basement and the police were called... 

[WOTR]

And if the bullet was shot at you and was still going at least 1100fps you would hear a sonic boom (or a crack) as the bullet passed. Unless it hit you. They say you don’t hear the one that hits you.

Mr. Soprano (and my wife) sure found out the hard way... 

I would be interested in the analysis comparing number of bullets hitting the concrete to the number of reports.  Right from the start I was thinking that using the last sound of a bullet hitting the concrete and comparing it to the last report could be faulty.  What if the last two bullets fired "found" their targets and were sitting in somebody's chest cavity?  Now you still have a conspiracy (there could be one shooter, but within 250 yards) and it would rule out the Mandalay bay shooter as being active...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RHvYRU2Aow

[crescent fresh]

There have been no reports I’ve heard of him practicing. I would think we’d know if he went to a range. There’s a lot of desert, but someone firing a bump stock would probably attract attention. A lack of practice could account for the low kill count - though distance could, too.

This is interesting because shooting with a bump stock does require practice it's not as simple as just putting it on and firing "full auto". It still takes finesse because you have to pull forward on the gun as you pull gun stock into your shoulder with your other hand. It goes against everything you know if your not used to it. I have bump fired using the thumb through the belt loop method and it's a pain in the ass. A bump stock is only an aid to help you bump fire easier but it don't do all the work for you this guy would have to practice with it. There is no way he just bought a bump stock and went to Las Vegas and pulled off the largest mass shooting from the 32 floor of a hotel from 400 yards away. The official story is about as believable as Sandy Hook at this point.

[Up All Night]

A buddy of mine was shot twice with the shit in the Philippines in 1985. Two rounds across his belly from right to left at about 300 meters range through foliage in the heat. He survived. Marine RAIDER. 1st of the 9th. Fighting Islamic Terrorists. Bet no one knew we were fighting them then or that the Raiders still existed then.

I knew a Marine who served in the Philippines in the 80's. His squad was looking for F. Terrorists. He told me about the 3 shot kill to insure the target was not coming back...

I think it was 2 shots to the heart and one to the head. Boom-Boom-Boom. With his side arm.

[Up All Night]

I get so frustrated with the reporters. While the sheriff has been asked about the caliber of the ammo found in the room (and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on whether they were 223 or 556) no one has asked what caliber shell casings were found, and more particularly what caliber rounds were found in the concert venue, the gas tanks, and the victims.

Exactly... I'd like to see a report on all casing found at the venue. If the American Public can handle it. I feel like out Govt. can now tell lies in the name of National Security, if exposing an Isis plot could trigger other cells, or whatever the reasoning is to obfuscate the truth is...

[Jackstar]

no one has asked what caliber shell casings were found, and more particularly what caliber rounds were found in the concert venue, the gas tanks, and the victims.

Where is the daylight photography of the killing field? There should be lots and lots of impact marks, all consistently lining up from a single source.

I would be interested in the analysis comparing number of bullets hitting the concrete to the number of reports.

Let's start with showing one. Have you seen images of bullet holes? I surely haven't. It's been over a week, hello?

I watched the entire video waiting for him to (as Jackstar would say) "show his work".

That's not what I would say, but I'll let that pass for now.

Mike HR's analysis shows plenty of work, but it doesn't show his basis for his basic assumptions:

- all shots came from the same rifle
- all shots were the same caliber
- et cetera

His mewling pleas to the FBI ("I made this spreadsheet for you in Excel, come on guys") are disingenuous disinformational bullshit at best.

Mike HR isn't a stupid man--he knows what he's doing.

I don't think so. Just a nut-job and an entitled prick.

Fake and gay.

[Jackstar]

I'd like to see a report on all casing found at the venue.

Hillary deleted the reports.

[GravitySucks]

I knew a Marine who served in the Philippines in the 80's. His squad was looking for F. Terrorists. He told me about the 3 shot kill to insure the target was not coming back...

I think it was 2 shots to the heart and one to the head. Boom-Boom-Boom.

The place I train in Pahrump, NV teach two shots to the thoracic cavity. This is fairly ease to acquire in the sight picture and one shot is usually enough if on target, two will stop most attackers. Doesn’t matter if you are shooting a handgun, rifle or shotgun.

Of course, the goal to self defense is to stop the attacker, not necessarily kill them. In the case of a determined attacker, one on PCP, or one wearing body armor, other methods are required. This is where the training dictates a shot to the head. Basically imagine a 3x5 card taped to the attackers forehead. Fairly easy to hit at 5 yards. Much more difficult at 25 yards when your life depends on it.

I do not believe combat troops are trained to shoot 2 and 1. Never heard of that when I was in the service. Seems to be a waste of ammo, especially if you are set up for select fire (3 shot burst).

I am sure they are only trained to shoot for the head if the enemy doesn’t fall from body hits (meaning they are probably wearing body armor). In a firefight you can’t afford to concentrate on a single target once you believe you have neutalized the threat. In most situations there are other bad guys shooting as well.

I will admit I have never been in combat and 95% of the training I have received is for self defense.

[Jackstar]

As an avid shooter of 30+ years, I noticed this anomaly right away, thanks to many afternoons at the range.

I refer to the supposed picture of the dead man in his room. According to Police reports, he fired on the crowd for nine to 11 minutes. Even at a mere 200 rounds a minute (a low estimate for a rifle with a bumpfire stock), that would be 1,800 to 2,200 rounds fired. So, what is missing from that picture is all the spent shell casings. There are maybe 3 or 4 dozen scattered on the floor. There should be Thousands. Piles of them. You shouldn’t be able to walk for all the casings that should be on the floor, had some one actually fired several thousand rounds from inside that room.

And where are all the empty Magazines? You know, the ones he ripped from the gun, to quickly replace with a full one? Would he not just toss them recklessly? Shouldn't there be lots of them strewn about on the floor as well? 23 guns each with a 30 round magazine only equals 690 rounds. So he would have had to do reloads. To get 2000 rounds fired, he would have had to use at least Three 30 round magazines per rifle (for a total of at least 69 magazines). That is if he even used every rifle there (if not there should be even more than 69 spent magazines). I saw no evidence anywhere in that picture of drum mags, only stick mags. Even so, there would have to be 20 spent 100 round mags, or 33 empty 60 round P-Mags. You get the point.

You can see in the picture that the broken window, with the "shooting platform" protruding (and covered by curtains) was only a few feet away from where the dead body's feet were. So this has to be where some, if not all of the shooting occurred.

Point is, there is no evidence in that picture to show, that what they claimed happened in that room, actually happened.

[Swishypants]

I knew a Marine who served in the Philippines in the 80's. His squad was looking for F. Terrorists. He told me about the 3 shot kill to insure the target was not coming back...

I think it was 2 shots to the heart and one to the head. Boom-Boom-Boom. With his side arm.

His name is Gary and he's one of the rare full-blood Navajo's. I didn't know him at the time but I've seen the scars. He's telling the truth. He was also Stevie Ray Vaughn's original drummer in High School. Huge Pantera fan. I haven't seen him in about two years now. Say hello for me if you see him. He and I did some shooting together out at "the farm."

https://youtu.be/i97OkCXwotE
SWTG-Delta.

[albrecht]

The place I train in Pahrump, NV teach two shots to the thoracic cavity. This is fairly ease to acquire in the sight picture and one shot is usually enough if on target, two will stop most attackers. Doesn’t matter if you are shooting a handgun, rifle or shotgun.

Of course, the goal to self defense is to stop the attacker, not necessarily kill them. In the case of a determined attacker, one on PCP, or one wearing body armor, other methods are required. This is where the training dictates a shot to the head. Basically imagine a 3x5 card taped to the attackers forehead. Fairly easy to hit at 5 yards. Much more difficult at 25 yards when your life depends on it.

I do not believe combat troops are trained to shoot 2 and 1. Never heard of that when I was in the service. Seems to be a waste of ammo, especially if you are set up for select fire (3 shot burst).

I am sure they are only trained to shoot for the head if the enemy doesn’t fall from body hits (meaning they are probably wearing body armor). In a firefight you can’t afford to concentrate on a single target once you believe you have neutalized the threat. In most situations there are other bad guys shooting as well.

I will admit I have never been in combat and 95% of the training I have received is for self defense.

I think Gunsite Academy teaches the so-called "Mozambique Drill" technique and wiki claims the LAPD adopted it at some point but renamed it "Failure Drill" to "avoid racial overtones."

[Swishypants]

I think Gunsite Academy teaches the so-called "Mozambique Drill" technique and wiki claims the LAPD adopted it at some point but renamed it "Failure Drill" to "avoid racial overtones."

Rhodesian SAS baby!

[GravitySucks]

I think Gunsite Academy teaches the so-called "Mozambique Drill" technique and wiki claims the LAPD adopted it at some point but renamed it "Failure Drill" to "avoid racial overtones."

That’s the way frontsight teaches it, with emphasis on “if the target is still active”. They refer to it as “Failure to stop”.