trusty bottle of acid

[Marc.Knight]

What fuuuuucked up culture carries around bottles of acid just in case they need to kill their children? 


"Pakistani parents say they killed 15-year-old daughter with acid for eyeing boy"

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/05/pakistan-parents-say-killed-15-year-old-daughter-with-acid-for-eyeing-boy/?intcmp=trending

[Eddie Coyle]

          Well, if you gonna go, man, uh, that's the way to, man
           

[Pragmier]

According to Al Jazeera the parents are jailed and charged with murder:

"[the father] beat her up and then poured acid over her with the help of his wife. She was badly burnt but they did not take her to hospital until the next morning, and she died on Wednesday."

"Honour killings are widespread in Pakistan, where scores of women are murdered every year for marriages or relationships not approved by their families."

Their culture.

[PB the Deplorable]

There are at least a couple Obama jokes in there, but I'm going to restrain myself this one time

[PB the Deplorable]

Anyway, where are the people that like to tell us no culture is 'superior' to any other?

[MV/Liberace!]

Anyway, where are the people that like to tell us no culture is 'superior' to any other?

i know.  it's infuriating.

[BobGrau]

Anyway, where are the people that like to tell us no culture is 'superior' to any other?

We're all busy torturing our own children in the name of political correctness, obviously.  :

[ziznak]

Gah... I go clicking away on a topic I think is spiked with LSD only to be reminded of the Arab propensity towards disfigurement as a form of punishment.
what a world what world...

[Blinko]

Anyway, where are the people that like to tell us no culture is 'superior' to any other?

I'll be that guy.

How do I go about doing this....

I could tell you that this story is an anecdote and therefore not a fair representation of Pakistani Culture , bear in mind they did elect a female leader ( Benazir Bhutto ) who was subsequently assassinated.

I could tell you that the parents gave way under the enormous pressure of conformity to culture surely expected by their peers , but this wont do obviously.

I'll make the comparison ,Pakistani culture vs American Culture.

First off , the american white person is the most culturally sterile being on the planet having almost no remnant of past culture that ties them to any history of their own. The american white person is essentially an agent of consumption acting on behalf of the corporate state consuming all sponsored goods , food , media , pop culture , what have you. What's amazing is at the end of it all , the american white person still feels to be an individual while simultaneously behaving like each other.The herd of independent minds.

Culture then in this context must be restricted to immoral and harmful things we do to other people domestically or abroad and how does that compare to Pakistani Honor killings. Which is supposedly worse.

The Pakistani case has already been mentioned so I'll only give american examples.

America leads the world in the murder of unborn children by far. No one else even comes close. In the name of convenience , in the name of our young women not being burdened with the consequences of their own irresponsible acts , Millions of unborn children will be murdered each year legally . This is american culture and we cant even agree that a developing life in the womb is in fact.... Life . By way of perverting language not only can we commit these heinous acts but we can feel ok about doing it.

America gave the world such wonderous organizations as the KKK and the Neo Nazi Party . And many americans today still retain the beliefs of these abominable organizations. In Fact , we have seen racism rear it's ugly head here in these forums. America was one of the last nations to abolish slavery. America only allowed equal rights for black citizens after hordes of protesters DIED during the civil rights movement. Most of you here would have referred to them the same way you refer to the occupy movement , with utter contempt. To this day we still do not have an egalitarian society.

America's leading export is DEATH We're so quick to condemn entire nations and wreak havoc on the masses when we are wronged and we justify our actions by citing the thousands of americans that were killed in 911, USS cole , Embassy bombings , Marine Barracks etc.

Estimates are  5 million dead in South East Asia in retaliation for a Gulf of Tonkin Incident that never happened.

According to various Human rights organizations, during the Clinton sanction regime alone some 500,000 children died from lack of aid , medicine, food , drinkable water , medical attention from international workers , all directly linked to the sanctions Clinton implemented in order to make Saddam more compliant in regard to his humanitarian atrocities, what a sick joke.

Madeleine Albright Defends Mass-Murder of iraqi Children (500,000 Children dead)

According to the Oxford research Bureau , some 1.6 million Iraqis  had died as of 2008 as a direct result of america's ILLEGAL invasion of Iraq. Much like Vietnam it is a war we are still not sure why we fought.But in typical american cultural fashion , who cares as long as you are still free to shove cheeseburgers in your fat face.

Who knows how many are dead in Afghanistan as we don't keep track of our own atrocities.


Then there are the innumerable cases of the american government willfully killing it's own people ,Tuskegee , the entire Nevada Test site , intentional exposure of troops to radiation during cold war testing .....


And of course the cold war itself whereby america and the soviets put the entire world at risk of annihilation while we played geo-political games.


But never mind all that , according to this article , over a four year period there were about  1957 honor killings in Pakistan over a four year period.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/health/jan-june09/pakistan_0406.html

Hell that's nearly 490 deaths per year.

Pakistan is worse

P.S.

I don't defend either culture but rather invite you to examine yourself first, it is such a hard thing to do.

We are all in this together and we are all clearly in trouble and we must all abolish these imaginary boundaries we construct for ourselves.

Culture , Nationalism , Race are among these boundaries.

[Blinko]

on a side note.

I may be in love with the former Pakistani Prime Minister's niece Fatima.



Author, Activist , Beautiful , intelligent and very interesting.

Fatima Bhutto

Fatima Bhutto

[Blinko]

Seems I was way off about the death tally arrived at by the Oxford research bureau as of 2008 in Iraq.


It wasn't 1.6 million but rather 1.3 million so maybe I'm wrong on all accounts then


at about the 3:50 mark you can hear someone who actually gives a shit put his reputation on the line in public by stating it's 1.3 million deaths

of course this will be dismissed because some lesser people here will offer ad hominems to dismiss the facts by refuting the messenger.

A messenger who is credentialed beyond the wildest dreams of anyone reading this but don't let that stop you from blindly adhering to ridiculous party axioms that you WRONGLY assume apply to you for some absurd reason. And in doing so you can continue waving your america is great fuck Pakistan banner because after all someone died from an acid attack.

This is all a consequence of POOR american education at all levels including the collegiate system of indoctrination that ripped you off.


Chomsky on why Iraq is missing from 2008 debates-1/4

[ziznak]

on a side note.

I may be in love with the former Pakistani Prime Minister's niece Fatima.

It would most certainly not be acid I throw on her face fersuuure!...  <rimshot!>

I'm a bit torn on the abortion thing... I think women who have had multiple abortions are the most reviled cunts to have ever existed and I personally feel disgusted by abortion as birthcontrol.  So in my personal life a past abortion is normally a total deal breaker / now I think you're a horrible human being type of factor.  On the other hand, if these horrible people weren't taking the time to murder their unborn children then we'd have a totally different problem... damned if ya do damned if ya don't much??

Anyway, I'm tired of being told that white America is the root of all evil... But I'll be one of the first to step up and say white people are most likely the root of ALL evil.  It's not just the honkeys that have lost their roots though... most American's these days lack cultural ties... America is the arrogant spoiled little fat kid of the world... I wouldn't have it any other way though.  We have freedom and naturally as human beings we have ABUSEd the shit out it.  wtf did we think was going to happen.  200 years in and our country is full of overly self involved pricks who get mad at the bum we had to step over cause it fucked up our twitter rhythm... me me me.

[Blinko]

It would most certainly not be acid I throw on her face fersuuure!...  <rimshot!>

I'm a bit torn on the abortion thing... I think women who have had multiple abortions are the most reviled cunts to have ever existed and I personally feel disgusted by abortion as birthcontrol.  So in my personal life a past abortion is normally a total deal breaker / now I think you're a horrible human being type of factor.  On the other hand, if these horrible people weren't taking the time to murder their unborn children then we'd have a totally different problem... damned if ya do damned if ya don't much??

Anyway, I'm tired of being told that white America is the root of all evil... But I'll be one of the first to step up and say white people are most likely the root of ALL evil.  It's not just the honkeys that have lost their roots though... most American's these days lack cultural ties... America is the arrogant spoiled little fat kid of the world... I wouldn't have it any other way though.  We have freedom and naturally as human beings we have ABUSEd the shit out it.  wtf did we think was going to happen.  200 years in and our country is full of overly self involved pricks who get mad at the bum we had to step over cause it fucked up our twitter rhythm... me me me.

interesting response ziznak.

Abortion is a tough issue , but it's a clear example of a cultural problem we have. People do use it as birth control and in my opinion , children die because of it.

I wont pinpoint anyone as the root of evil , but the obvious fact here is : America is the lone super power and as such our actions have the most dire effects ,the greatest impact,  like the ones I mentioned.

The culturally neutered american white person is a side note, but an important one. We're defending culture here and the way I see it , many americans have none aside from Honey Boo Boo , monster truck pulls, and country music.

Huge swaths of this nation are culturally vapid

and before anyone goes defending country music or shit TV , know that I'm not defining culture as HIGH ART or sophistication in any way.

The prosaic definition leaves many americans lacking, it is the way of a people and more often than not I see the WAY of many american people as nothing more than a culture of consumerism and a reflex reflection of media indoctrination.

That's not culture, that's a perverse state for anyone to find themselves in and america has generations suffering through this as we speak.

[PB the Deplorable]

One objective measure would be what decisions people actually make - like, say, when they take the huge and desperate step to leave one culture (and a profession, extended family and friends) and move somewhere else, somewhere where they may not even speak the language or know a single other person.  How many Americans are moving their families permanently to Pakistan to become Pakistanis,  and how many Pakistani families are moving to the West - even with all those KKKers and Neo-Nazis lurking everywhere?

For that matter, how many African-American families - clearly the most abused people ever to walk the earth, to hear the media and the Libs talk about it - how many of them are leaving the US for anywhere else, even other prosperous English speaking Western countries?



And abortion?  Really?  Usually anyone opposed is shunned as a Neanderthal laying in wait to repress women, now it's used as evidence that America is backwards?

[Blinko]

One objective measure would be what decisions people actually make - like, say, when they take the huge and desperate step to leave one culture (and a profession, extended family and friends) and move somewhere else, somewhere where they may not even speak the language or know a single other person.  How many Americans are moving their families permanently to Pakistan to become Pakistanis,  and how many Pakistani families are moving to the West - even with all those KKKers and Neo-Nazis lurking everywhere?

For that matter, how many African-American families - clearly the most abused people ever to walk the earth, to hear the media and the Libs talk about it - how many of them are leaving the US for anywhere else, even other prosperous English speaking Western countries?



And abortion?  Really?  Usually anyone opposed is shunned as a Neanderthal laying in wait to repress women, now it's used as evidence that America is backwards?

America does not have KKK and Neo Nazis lurking everywhere.

And Pakistan does not have acid throwing baby murderers lurking everywhere.

I did not use the term " backwards" at any point.

However you can clearly see that american culture sanctions the murder of unborn children. That is a fact.

and as stated in the original post , Pakistan observes a culture where children may be murdered in honor killings.

I gave the examples, choose for yourself which is worse. That was the question.

[Blinko]

and I havent even mentioned drone strikes

But that is besides the point.

Fatima Bhutto ,

Yes or No

[ziznak]

unless you're blind I'm pretty sure we'd all have to say helllllllz yah.

[Blinko]

unless you're blind I'm pretty sure we'd all have to say helllllllz yah.

Mmmmmhhmmmmm

[ziznak]

lol look at him go!
here's the youtube equivalent of your typical American
Tweeting Mah Twitter (REMIX) #tweetingmytwitter

[PB the Deplorable]

... I gave the examples, choose for yourself which is worse. That was the question.

I'm going to go with randomly killing 12 year old girls is worse.  Stonings, forced burkas, cutting off hands, beheadings, forced marriages of children, acid pouring, the list goes on.  How about the treatment of gays?  Non-Moslems?  Most people think the West has moved forward since the time of the Spanish Inquisitions and other horrors.  The Moslems haven't.   And I'm finding out some people here wouldn't agree that we have either - that we've just moved, what, sideways?   Downwards?

Only in in a few twisted places like Chomskyland is this even a question.  I notice even he chooses to live here though.  And manages to live quite nicely while smearing us.  Lets see him go to Pakistan, put out some critical writings there (if he can think of anything) and see how he does.

[PB the Deplorable]

... This is all a consequence of POOR american education at all levels including the collegiate system of indoctrination that ripped you off...

A more accurate comment would be that there are some of us that managed to get through school while avoiding being indoctrinated by the Left. 

But you are right about the poor education system and the attempts at indoctrination.  Look who runs the schools - Democrat teachers unions and their politician cronies.  Between 90 and 95% of college professors are Democrats or even further to the Left - if it was the other way around there would be denunciations in the streets and accusations of blacklisting.

So who do you think is doing the indoctrinating, and what is it that they are teaching?  It sure isn't American 'superiority' as it seems like you are claiming.

[Blinko]

I'm going to go with randomly killing 12 year old girls is worse.  Stonings, forced burkas, cutting off hands, beheadings, forced marriages of children, acid pouring, the list goes on.  How about the treatment of gays?  Non-Moslems?  Most people think the West has moved forward since the time of the Spanish Inquisitions and other horrors.  The Moslems haven't.   And I'm finding out some people here wouldn't agree that we have either - that we've just moved, what, sideways?   Downwards?

Only in in a few twisted places like Chomskyland is this even a question.  I notice even he chooses to live here though.  And manages to live quite nicely while smearing us.  Lets see him go to Pakistan, put out some critical writings there (if he can think of anything) and see how he does.

Pakistan does not force people to wear burkas.

Stonings? a means of capital punishment . We have had this also the electric chair , lethal injection , firing squad , hanging.

I have no idea how they treat gays ,but I know americans dont treat them well. There are hate crime murders in america you know.

I think child marriage bad , I also think American institutions like the Catholic church supporting a system of child rape at epidemic levels is bad.

Cutting off heads and hands? Anecdotes. We have some also , like cannibalistic face eaters and throat slashing nannys.None of these examples are the norm, none happen regularly.

Abortion happens regularly though , over a million a year.

And war happens pretty regularly also , and we kills millions each time we do it though we are not sure why we do it.

So which is worse and why.

Pakistan is worse because they treat their own people bad? so do we

Pakistan is worse because they kill people in horrific ways? so do we

The only real difference is we do these things in greater numbers.

The indoctrination system I refer to is the one that doesn't really teach you to think but just to accept the status quo , accept what you are being told as truth...To accept authority as truth.

I don't think  you are seeing my leftist ideology here I think I'm taking up an argument and trying to be logical about it.

[The General]

Pakistan is worse because they treat their own people bad? so do we

Pakistan is worse because they kill people in horrific ways? so do we

The only real difference is we do these things in greater numbers.

You confuse justice with tyranny, my friend.  That is a sad, sad thing.

[PB the Deplorable]

You confuse justice with tyranny, my friend.  That is a sad, sad thing.

The Left is very very good at parsing and declaring distinctions and differences when there are none on the one hand, and lumping together seemingly similar but not truly comparable items - then declaring them equal, on the other.  Depending on when it suits them. 

The Corrupt Media puts on a clinic every single day, the Chomsky's provide the 'intellectual' support.

The biggest laugh on this thread is the abortion example - it's good when the Left says it's good, its bad when the Left says it's bad - depending on what argument they want to make.  Then for good measure we're told we are the ones who can't think and have been indoctrinated.  Welcome to Obama's Brave New World.

[Pragmier]

The right to choose = good. Choosing abortion = tragic. Not mutually exclusive anymore than freedom of speech means agreement with all views. That's just an opinion; if you feel it's murder I respect that too. What I do find perplexing is the pro life/anti contraception/pro death penalty position.

[PB the Deplorable]

... What I do find perplexing is the pro life/anti contraception/pro death penalty position.

This is exactly what I was talking about people lumping unrelated and dissimilar things together.

Why is it so hard to believe someone can be against aborting babies, yet have no problem with executing violent criminals?   I don't get what it is that you don't get.

Here's another one:  I would do just about anything I could to avoid a fight out if I were out somewhere, but I would have no problem killing someone breaking into my house.

[coaster]

Cutting off heads and hands? Anecdotes. We have some also , like cannibalistic face eaters and throat slashing nannys.

Dumbest comparison ever.

[onan]

All facts are not equal and some positions do not have a valid counter position.

As so often happens in this forum, some are unwilling to look at the darker side of the US. Does that make all the citizenry corrupt? I guess it depends on a point of view. I doubt relatives of the more than 100,000 dead in Iraq would have difficulty finding all US Americans culpable. I know I wouldn't.

But, and this is surely an American biased point, I cannot see how anyone does not find the restrictive perhaps barbaric family structure in Pakistan, Afghanistan, et. al. to be a much worse society than ours.

That doesn't excuse the barbarity we in the US silently and perhaps unknowingly allow to happen while we sit and watch America's Got Talent.

[Pragmier]

The position that all life is sacred, and therefore all killing wrong, is logically more unassailable. My 'perplexed' (maybe not a good word) comment is in relation to those that oppose abortion on the grounds of the sanctity of life while supporting executions. By making the distinction, we are judging who does and does not deserve to die. Can we really be sure, given the fallability of human beings and our legal system specifically, that only guilty persons are executed? In the US do poor defendants have the same chance as the wealthy? Once someone is convicted and imprisoned for life, they are no longer a threat to society so the question becomes why kill them? I only see a few of reasons: it's expensive to house them, revenge, or deterrence. Deterrence has been argued all over the place and studies often give conflicting conclusions. I've read the average convict can spend 10-15 years on death row. But accepting death penalties save lives, we still have to consider the prior point that some, however few, innocent people may be wrongly executed. So now we decide - is it worth killing some of these erroneously to deter? You may say 'yes', I may disagree, I don't think it can be proved right or wrong.

To sum up in a perfect world: 1. We'd never convict innocent people 2. Executions always deter/save lives 3. Punishment is handed out equitably. I'm not convinced we're there yet. I hope that makes some sense.

PS I am not talking about killing in self-defense or of those that still have the potential to do harm. Of note: of the top 10 countries that had documented executions in 2010, US was the only democracy.

[Blinko]

Dumbest comparison ever.

it is a dumb comparison

and it's also a dumb argument. It's an argument that I think is meaningless.

arguing that one culture is superior to another is like arguing that green is a superior color to blue.

Pakistan does bad things
America does bad things

Does one country tally more points in the bad column than the other? I dont think so ,they are both just bad in their own way and good in their own way.

I prefer american culture. I am glad I don't live in any arab or muslim state.

I also prefer green over blue

Are we better than Pakistanis? is our way of life superior to theirs? That was the argument. I don't think anyone can win this argument.

But I do enjoy engaging you all in the discussion.