Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

[EvB]

The Christian Right basically regard Mormons as a CULT. So, while he may get more of their votes than Obama, he is no slam dunk in that regard. And I am curious ... you actually fear Christians more than Marxists, Communists and those who are biding their time to strip you of your Bill of Rights? You must be a woman who is enamored by Obama. Puzzles me how professional women can support a guy who hasn't done a damn thing for them, fabricates his former associations with women and uses them a just a bucket of voters to be massaged come voting time - while being so "afraid" of a happily married father of five who is a man of faith and a successful businessman. I think many white women find white men too white.

I agree with MV also about a revolution as a viable option. Things are not going to get better anytime soon regardless of what that Manchurian candidate we now have in office says or what Romney can even hope to pull off in four short years. People are growing very impatient. The American people are usually requiring a serious kick in the ass to ever get them to do something in force. Slow to get pissed and a bunch of determined people when they finally do.

Yes, I agree. All things have a life cycle. Ours is no different. We've had a couple of major changes of direction in our short history. Others have had many centuries and even millennia. Their changes are obvious.

Yes, some.  I'm not convinced any of those groups give a shit about our rights. And though I admit that living and working in northeast academia renders me more than a little used to philosophical Marxism, it also leaves me pretty cynical about the whole thing.  When I got my M Ed in learning technologies, and wanted to focus my thesis on the practicalities of electronic education delivery rather than theory and politics, I had to get a sponsor from outside of my department. Of the two people available to me inside my department, one was simply not interested in anything I did (IMO because she's already taken as much of my research as she could for her own publications, that lead to her tenure, and wanted to spend her time with people who were working on things she could claim primary publishing credit for) and the other said (in much fancier, more academic language) that he thought I was training as a whore for edu-business and he disproved.   Fuck 'em both.

Zircon, didn't anyone ever teach you that old saw about ASS-umptions? Be less of an ass.  Ask me a question and I'll do my best to answer. Meanwhile, fuck you too.

Now there, we agree.

[Zircon]

Yes, some.  I'm not convinced any of those groups give a shit about our rights. And though I admit that living and working in northeast academia renders me more than a little used to philosophical Marxism, it also leaves me pretty cynical about the whole thing.  When I got my M Ed in learning technologies, and wanted to focus my thesis on the practicalities of electronic education delivery rather than theory and politics, I had to get a sponsor from outside of my department. Of the two people available to me inside my department, one was simply not interested in anything I did (IMO because she's already taken as much of my research as she could for her own publications, that lead to her tenure, and wanted to spend her time with people who were working on things she could claim primary publishing credit for) and the other said (in much fancier, more academic language) that he thought I was training as a whore for edu-business and he disproved.   Fuck 'em both.

Zircon, didn't anyone ever teach you that old saw about ASS-umptions? Be less of an ass.  Ask me a question and I'll do my best to answer. Meanwhile, fuck you too.

Now there, we agree.

EvB, I agree with pretty much everything you said (in red). Perhaps you can understand why my overall view of educators in our public system isn't all that positive as our system is totally fucked. Grade inflation, outcome based results and more and more money being spent with poorer results the overwhelming outcome from coast to coast. Also, the NEA is a union and concerned about its own power. Your leader even said that educators aren't relly concerned about educating children. That is an indictment of the leadership and philosophy of the NEA and educators. Using that statement, I would be correct more often than not in ASS-uming teachers share that philosophy. If not from the onset, as most young persons are more idealistic, then climbing the ladder would suggest a gravitation towards that mindset in time.

My background is in mathematics and physics with an advanced degree in applied mathematics so I do know how to think and how to assume things. I've been told to go fuck myself before. Thanks for the compliment but your ASS-umption that I could do that was a bit too generous. Not being endowed quite that impressively I will have to settle for standard heterosexual relations - with my wife. Better luck with the next person you make that suggestion to as eventually you'll talk with someone where it will be possible.

[Ben Shockley]

Zircon, didn't anyone ever teach you that old saw about ASS-umptions? Be less of an ass.  Ask me a question and I'll do my best to answer. Meanwhile, fuck you too.

Beautifully done, EvB.   I now officially like you, for the on-target chutzpah, if not exactly the politics.
I can relate to the grad school departmental drama and pronounce you a better woman (or at least one with better emotional- and financial logistics) than me for sticking it out.   While working on a Doctorate, I ran up against intransigent (euphemism for "bigoted and hostile") faculty who screwed me near the finish line by refusing to be committee members for pre-dissertation qualifying exams.   Unlike you -- I walked.   Just disappeared from the place -- that'll show 'em!!!

Okay, who will I vote for, presidential-wise?  Well, considering that I live in the reddest of infra-red states, it really doesn't matter because it's a textbook case of a "wasted vote."   These good rednecks around here will prove their Love Of God by indulging their hate and voting for The White Guy, whatever his name is.   Seeing these Baptists have to subsume one prejudice for another though, will be a little bit of cold ironic comfort:  voting for a "damn Mormon" (who they'd otherwise probably shoot) just to get the "Kenyan Marxist - Fascist, Muslim - Zionist" outta there, you know~~

Therefore, I might just wax creative and do a write-in.   Tom Laughlin  is tickling my fancy at the moment ~~

[EvB]

Ha! Ben - I do get it! 


1) I live in Massachusetts.  We've zigged and zagged a few times, but on the whole we're so blue we're indigo. Most of the time it's safe to write in a vote as a "comment" without doing harm. BTW-  that ALSO would be a vote against Romney, and is one option i'm considering.


2) Grad school sucks.  I'm 58, so ran the gauntlet very late in life. the thing is, i took college level classes off and on, simply for the joy of it, since i was 17 years old.  It's specifically GRAD SCHOOL I despise, and so for now, have stopped with the M Ed. I now work for the woman who sponsored my thesis.  She's a researcher in computerized tutoring (primary for mathematics but we've done some other interesting things - I was one of her RAs while I did the mater's) so the potential for getting suckered into more is there.


3) I'm told ABD is the biggest academic fraternity in the US. 

[Ben Shockley]

Ha! Ben - I do get it! 

...I'm told ABD is the biggest academic fraternity in the US. 

And I didn't even have to use the term.  You truly do get it.

While we're doing the academic-history boogie -- my Master's was the proverbial piece of cake:  I was a RA at a univ-associated research center; my Prof. / "boss" was doing a funded project; I used his survey data for which I just happened to be doing the data-entry.   He and two other very sympathetic profs who I'd just happened to have for classes in my 1 year there formed my thesis committee.   The raw data sucked, but my "boss" had been the guy behind the funding and thus the limitations, so -- what could he say??   Short moral:  be drinking- / music-listening buddies with your M-level thesis committee folks and you'll do well, despite acknowledged horrendous survey data.       :

[RecoveringNoorholic]

I didn't read any of this thread except for the title, but I'm voting for Gary Johnson (I voted for Ralph Nader in '08).

"I'd rather vote for something I want and not get it than vote for something I don't want and get it." - Eugene Debs

[Ruteger]

Agust 18, 1988 GHW Bush: “Read my lips: No New Taxes” ; November 1992 - Gone.

2008 Barack Hussein Obama â€" I won't increase taxes on the middle class, November 2012 - Gone.

[Virtual]

One of the major problems (among many), is that people don't look at WHO is supporting the Presidential candidate. Who is going to be helping the President make policy? So when I look at Romney I ask myself, who will be advising him. Would that person be able to sit down and have a beer with me and relate to my issues.

Right now there seems to be very few politicians who actually care if I have a job, health insurance and can purchase basic food groups. Add in whether our environment will support human life in 50 years just as a quality of life thought. I would say there are very few QUALIFIED people in Government with the intelligence, wisdom and knowledge to make any decision. Our elected officials are not smart enough to fix these problems. At this point they are lawyers bogged down in law. Or politicians more concerned with raising money and holding onto power.

Obama made the huge mistake of surrounding himself with financial insiders instead of doing something about the countries banks we patted them on the head and said "don't do that again". But we all know that a separation between financial institutions and banks that actually help build American infrastructure is needed. Add the discredited thought that the free market will police itself (LIBOR anyone). I cringe at the past 4 years and how Obama handled the situation.

So is Romney going to be better or worse? I know he is going to be worse. His administration will bring in people who will game the system even more for corporations. Look at who is giving Romney money. These are the people who will be making policy. They were the puppeteers behind Bush Junior and they want another  eight years with Romney.

I would rather have more Obama than anymore Bush era Republican, juice and game the system for the rich policies. At least I know the Devil that is Obama. I think Romney is just more Bush but doubled down. Romney can think of his own ways to steal money from people who he can't relate to.

[ShayP]

After reading this thread, I forgot who I was going to vote for.

Naahhh...just makes me more depressed at the thought of voting. 

Nonetheless, I feel a need to vote.  I was so excited when I turned 18 and could.  I have ever since.  As I've grown and gotten older I feel like I'm wasting my time. 

I guess it's better to ask if I am going to vote rather than who I will vote for.

Pressed into it, I would vote Ron Paul.  Even then I would be uncertain.

[Harmness]

.

[Rasputin]

Libertarian, as I refuse to vote for either one of these puppets. And before anyone makes a long winded post about how I'm wasting my vote, save the bandwith please.

If just 60 percent of voting Americans did this, we might actually see some real change in Washington. But sadly, most people are stupid to vote, and will continue to try and vote themselves "bread and circusses" until things grind to a complete halt.

I have the same opinion as MV does...we deserve whats coming down the pike. Its going to take a complete failure of our Government, and all the problems that go with it to wake the average American up that something is wrong. Until then, its a puppet show put on by corporations and other money flush people who really pull the strings of the Government.

[BigDave]

Romney-Ryan and straight Republican ticket! "President" Obama will be sent back to Chicago

[RealCool Daddio]

Romney is gonna have a tough time getting elected if he keeps writing off half of the electorate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/09/17/mitt-romneys-darkest-hour/

[MV/Liberace!]

i'm voting straight libertarian.

[Eddie Coyle]

Romney is gonna have a tough time getting elected if he keeps writing off half of the electorate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/09/17/mitt-romneys-darkest-hour/

Suicide. If he'd taken out the flag, shit on it and then blew Ryan on camera...he'd have a better chance of getting elected than making these comments.

[MV/Liberace!]

If he'd taken out the flag, shit on it and then blew Ryan on camera...

So then you're saying that would harm his candidacy?

[Eddie Coyle]

So then you're saying that would harm his candidacy?

Hmmm...maybe I have to do my predictions over. He'd win CA and NY with that tactic.

[The General]

Romney is gonna have a tough time getting elected if he keeps writing off half of the electorate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/09/17/mitt-romneys-darkest-hour/

I can't say I disagree with anything he said there

[Sardondi]

Libertarian, as I refuse to vote for either one of these puppets....

I am so much closer to this. But a libertarian vote is still essentially a vote away from Romney and thus for Obama. There is a smallish community of "Liberaltarians" who came to libertarianism from the left, but not nearly as many who had been supporting Republicans.

Congressional Republicans from the last two Bush Administrations have a great deal to answer for with regard to the budget fiasco. They were essentially as piggish and wastrel as the Democrats have been for generations. But the banking and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac abortions are simply off the charts, and ensconce Democrats as the kings and queens of corrupt legislation. A pox on both their houses, both the Mitch McConnells and the Barney Franks. 

[MV/Liberace!]

But a libertarian vote is still essentially a vote away from Romney and thus for Obama.

perhaps that's true, but at some point we've got to break away from the suffocation of this two party system.  the republican/democrat bosses are depending on sentiments like the above quoted.

[PB the Deplorable]

The Libertarians are a philosophy club, not a political party.  May as well write in your dog's name for Pres.

[MV/Liberace!]

May as well write in your dog's name for Pres.

I'd rather do that than vote for the candidates presented by the Republican party for the last several elections.

[onan]

perhaps that's true, but at some point we've got to break away from the suffocation of this two party system.  the republican/democrat bosses are depending on sentiments like the above quoted.

This.

The problem I see with this however, is the lack of work by third parties when there is no election more than 4 months out. Yeah I may need to pay more attention. But any third party needs to be knocking on doors every day. Our two party system has turned into an aberration. Our distrust of the system doesn't allow us to trust anyone on the "other" side.

[stevesh]

Romney is gonna have a tough time getting elected if he keeps writing off half of the electorate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/09/17/mitt-romneys-darkest-hour/

When are we going to stop letting the press goad us into a lot of shouting and arm-waving every time a politician says something provocative at a private event to a group of his campaign contributors ? Those people attended that dinner looking (and paying) for Republican red meat, and Romney served it to them. That's what he was there for. It's not like we haven't seen Obama (and almost every other pol, ever) do exactly the same kind of thing.

Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

[Zircon]

Libertarian, as I refuse to vote for either one of these puppets. And before anyone makes a long winded post about how I'm wasting my vote, save the bandwith please.

If just 60 percent of voting Americans did this, we might actually see some real change in Washington. But sadly, most people are stupid to vote, and will continue to try and vote themselves "bread and circusses" until things grind to a complete halt.

I have the same opinion as MV does...we deserve whats coming down the pike. Its going to take a complete failure of our Government, and all the problems that go with it to wake the average American up that something is wrong. Until then, its a puppet show put on by corporations and other money flush people who really pull the strings of the Government.

Can you explain what the Libertarians stand for? By that I'm asking how their platform would manifest itself into society. I'm under the impression that it is almost an "anything goes" as long as you don't step on the rights of someone else. Might be overly simplistic but something like that.

I agree with you and MV it appears that both of these candidates are saying what their respective camps want to hear in order to garner votes. The independent vote will determine the winner - it usually does.

The situation in this country is so screwed up that neither is going to be able to deliver on his "I am the Savior" rhetoric.

The federal reserve and bankers have effectively taken over the country and for the first time is rather overtly advertised. Used to be regarded as "conspiracy theory" but we all knew it was going on. Obama is buying votes by pandering to the various groups in this country. Heard a rumor that he is planning on releasing the "Blind Sheik" after the election which is an attempt to garner the Muslim vote. He gave amnesty, lets be honest, to those 18-30 year old Mexicans. He has the gay/lesbian, black and government dependency vote. The way this economy is going that is a lot of votes.

Romney is pandering to the opposite and those numbers are shrinking. I think Obama wins reelection even with all the fallout that is being laid at his feet.

[PB the Deplorable]

I'd rather do that (write in the dog's name) than vote for the candidates presented by the Republican party for the last several elections.

How is that different from not voting at all?

[Juan]

I'm torn.  I voted for the first Libertarian candidate, John Hospers, in 1972 while all of my college classmates were voting for Socialist Workers Party candidate Linda Jeness (McGovern was too establishment.) Then worked hard on the Roger MacBride (1976) and Ed Clark (1980) campaigns.  I then went into the news business and stayed out of politics, though I continued to vote Libertarian.  What did all of that get us?  It's gotten worse and worse, from 2000 a bankrupting Republican and now a Democrat who's a Marxist.

At least I can say that none of is it my fault.

Yes, Zircon, leave folks alone as long as they're not hurting anyone else.  Certainly don't arrest them at 1:30AM for possible involvement in making a bad movie.

[BigDave]

I'm torn.  I voted for the first Libertarian candidate, John Hospers, in 1972 while all of my college classmates were voting for Socialist Workers Party candidate Linda Jeness (McGovern was too establishment.) Then worked hard on the Roger MacBride (1976) and Ed Clark (1980) campaigns.  I then went into the news business and stayed out of politics, though I continued to vote Libertarian.  What did all of that get us?  It's gotten worse and worse, from 2000 a bankrupting Republican and now a Democrat who's a Marxist.

At least I can say that none of is it my fault.

Yes, Zircon, leave folks alone as long as they're not hurting anyone else.  Certainly don't arrest them at 1:30AM for possible involvement in making a bad movie.

In 1992 I voted for US Taxpayers party candidate Howard Phillips in the Presidential Election. I couldn't stomach Bush Sr and Phillips was more conservative

[MV/Liberace!]

How is that different from not voting at all?

if i choose not to vote at all, i think that's as legitimate a choice as anything.  it's what i did in 2008, and i'm sure there are plenty of disappointed, embarrassed people reading this post who wish they also could say they abstained 4 years ago.


i've never been swept off my feet by this whole "you must vote" philosophy.  when neither candidate is to my liking, i can see no choice but to stay home.  i think this country would improve dramatically if the electorate employed this approach to voting.

[MV/Liberace!]

I couldn't stomach Bush Sr...

you weren't alone.