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The Ongoing Climate and Weather Debate including General Weather News

Started by 21st Century Man, October 22, 2016, 12:36:08 AM

ItsOver

Quote from: 21st Century Man on June 02, 2017, 02:45:01 AM
The reason he disagrees with me is he is into the chem trails and weather manipulation conspiracy theories.  I haven't ruled any of that out completely but I need more evidence.   The CO2 theory is what I claim to be bunk.  I will also add that it has been unusually cool this spring in North GA and next week they are calling for lows in the low to mid 50's.  Highly unusual for June but I'm not ready to jump on the global cooling bandwagon quite yet.

The main problem of the Paris accord is that it redistributes wealth and I simply don't want a world government body making decisions for our country.  It is a socialist/communist grab at power using the front of climate change.
I had to laugh yesterday.  I'm on the road and just happen to be in the Cape Canaveral area, so I thought I'd catch the SpaceX launch scheduled for yesterday.  Launch projections, based upon weather predictions, were around 70% for a "go" up to about an hour prior to launch time.  Ha!  The launch was scrubbed at the last minute due to unfavorable weather.  Yet, we're suppose to believe climate predictions for decades in the future.  LOL.


GravitySucks

Quote from: ItsOver on June 02, 2017, 09:56:11 AM
I had to laugh yesterday.  I'm on the road and just happen to be in the Cape Canaveral area, so I thought I'd catch the SpaceX launch scheduled for yesterday.  Launch projections, based upon weather predictions, were around 70% for a "go" up to about an hour prior to launch time.  Ha!  The launch was scrubbed at the last minute due to unfavorable weather.  Yet, we're suppose to believe climate predictions for decades in the future.  LOL.

Hope you got a chance to shop at Ron John's Cocoa Beach.

Quote from: ItsOver on June 02, 2017, 09:56:11 AM
I had to laugh yesterday.  I'm on the road and just happen to be in the Cape Canaveral area, so I thought I'd catch the SpaceX launch scheduled for yesterday.  Launch projections, based upon weather predictions, were around 70% for a "go" up to about an hour prior to launch time.  Ha!  The launch was scrubbed at the last minute due to unfavorable weather.  Yet, we're suppose to believe climate predictions for decades in the future.  LOL.

Well, at least the forecasters didn't say that there was a 95% chance like the New York Times said about the election. ;D

Thunderstorms are a bitch to predict during the summertime.

Ha,  Brazil controls 30% of the soybean market.  Only the US has a larger share.  You know how come they have such a large share of the market?  Because they cut down the rainforest.  Here we have all these "green", biodiesel cars especially in Europe and the rainforest had to be cut down to increase production of soybeans.  This must cause quite a conflict in the environmental community considering trees absorb CO2.  lol.  It really is sad though.  I hate clear-cutting and have always been against it.

GravitySucks

Quote from: 21st Century Man on June 02, 2017, 10:40:55 AM
Well, at least the forecasters didn't say that there was a 95% chance like the New York Times said about the election. ;D

Thunderstorms are a bitch to predict during the summertime.

Lightning can be real bad there, but winds and wind shear can be an issue even when the skies are clear.

I tried to see 5 shuttle launches and never got to see a launch, in spite of 9-10 different launch attempts (multiple days) 7-8 of which were scrubbed due to weather. Once we spent 3 hours sitting in the bus because the Lightning was so bad.

The launch window for that mission was 1 second long. Launches to the space station have to be timed just right to rendezvous.


Quote from: GravitySucks on June 02, 2017, 10:57:43 AM
Lightning can be real bad there, but winds and wind shear can be an issue even when the skies are clear.

I tried to see 5 shuttle launches and never got to see a launch, in spite of 9-10 different launch attempts (multiple days) 7-8 of which were scrubbed due to weather. Once we spent 3 hours sitting in the bus because the Lightning was so bad.

The launch window for that mission was 1 second long. Launches to the space station have to be timed just right to rendezvous.

Hey, GS.  I never thought about your last point before but you're right.   Must make it a bitch for mission control (or whatever they call it these days).

GravitySucks

Quote from: 21st Century Man on June 02, 2017, 11:05:37 AM
Hey, GS.  I never thought about your last point before but you're right.   Must make it a bitch for mission control (or whatever they call it these days).

The orbit for the ISS (51.6) is ideal for Russian launches but less than ideal for KSC (28.5). They have to launch towards the northeast which does not take advantage of the earth's rotation as much as if they could launch due east. The Shuttle launch windows were slightly longer for ISS missions because they had more fuel/performance and weren't trying to land the booster back after launch like Space-X does.  If I remember correctly, even then the windows were minutes, not hours.

Early in the Shuttle program, the winds had to be predicted way in advance. Sometime around 1990, NASA developed the capability to use day of launch winds updates to the flight software, but even that was done hours in advance.

I am sure that all launches use a process similar to the one described in this paper.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20110003654.pdf

I haven't kept track of how the commercial companies are sharing launch control functions with NASA but I am fairly certain NASA is still tied in for range safety. There is usually a team at Patrick AFB ready to send a self-destruct command if the rocket veers off course.

p.s. Hoagland did not invent this.

GravitySucks

Quote from: 21st Century Man on June 02, 2017, 10:57:34 AM
Ha,  Brazil controls 30% of the soybean market.  Only the US has a larger share.  You know how come they have such a large share of the market?  Because they cut down the rainforest.  Here we have all these "green", biodiesel cars especially in Europe and the rainforest had to be cut down to increase production of soybeans.  This must cause quite a conflict in the environmental community considering trees absorb CO2.  lol.  It really is sad though.  I hate clear-cutting and have always been against it.

When you add in how much CO2 is produced in the manufacturing and distribution/installation of solar panels, the overall equation is even worse. I don't think today's solar panels ever break even from just a CO2 standpoint. Green energy is not that green.

GravitySucks

Some articles about solar panels

http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/solar/solar-energy-isnt-always-as-green-as-you-think

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/green-building-news/solar-panels-near-break-even-point

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/12/the-solar-industry-has-paid-off-its-carbon-debts/510308/

It appears that the general consensus is that from a CO2 standpoint, solar panels are just now becoming carbon neutral. But if you read the IEEE article, the problem of toxic waste is still an issue.

Bottom line, the solar panel industry has been a major polluter for its entire existence. It may get better going forward as thin film products take over market share.

Gd5150

Solar, renewables, fossil fuel. It's bogus. The answer is so simple.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: GravitySucks on June 02, 2017, 12:28:17 PM
Some articles about solar panels

http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/solar/solar-energy-isnt-always-as-green-as-you-think

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/green-building-news/solar-panels-near-break-even-point

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/12/the-solar-industry-has-paid-off-its-carbon-debts/510308/

It appears that the general consensus is that from a CO2 standpoint, solar panels are just now becoming carbon neutral. But if you read the IEEE article, the problem of toxic waste is still an issue.

Bottom line, the solar panel industry has been a major polluter for its entire existence. It may get better going forward as thin film products take over market share.

In a previous life I worked for a couple of years at DuPont in the UK. And among the hundreds of conductive and dielectric pastes manufactured, we made a few that were used in solar panels. The scientist who invented them all, worked there. Mad as a box of frogs, but brilliant and very very funny.

Anyway the first batch of one if the products (before I started working there) was only 5kg, sold to Australia. In six months they were shipping about 150kg per month, every month. Might not seem a lot, but this is reduced down with thinners so it can be screen printed onto circuit boards a few microns thick.

As for making a profit, Twitter has never posted one. Aston Martin until relatively recently lost money on every car they sold, there are many comparable examples. Carbon fuels are costing more and more to find and exploit profitably. Apart from them destroying the planet.

The way forward is hydrogen power for what we now use internal combustion engines for. Batteries are a temporary stop gap.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Yorkshire Pud on June 02, 2017, 02:10:27 PM
In a previous life I worked for a couple of years at DuPont in the UK. And among the hundreds of conductive and dielectric pastes manufactured, we made a few that were used in solar panels. The scientist who invented them all, worked there. Mad as a box of frogs, but brilliant and very very funny.

Anyway the first batch of one if the products (before I started working there) was only 5kg, sold to Australia. In six months they were shipping about 150kg per month, every month. Might not seem a lot, but this is reduced down with thinners so it can be screen printed onto circuit boards a few microns thick.

As for making a profit, Twitter has never posted one. Aston Martin until relatively recently lost money on every car they sold, there are many comparable examples. Carbon fuels are costing more and more to find and exploit profitably. Apart from them destroying the planet.

The way forward is hydrogen power for what we now use internal combustion engines for. Batteries are a temporary stop gap.

If we could draw power from the amount of bullshit you post here our problems would be solved, mate.  :D


GravitySucks

Quote from: Yorkshire Pud on June 02, 2017, 02:10:27 PM
In a previous life I worked for a couple of years at DuPont in the UK. And among the hundreds of conductive and dielectric pastes manufactured, we made a few that were used in solar panels. The scientist who invented them all, worked there. Mad as a box of frogs, but brilliant and very very funny.

Anyway the first batch of one if the products (before I started working there) was only 5kg, sold to Australia. In six months they were shipping about 150kg per month, every month. Might not seem a lot, but this is reduced down with thinners so it can be screen printed onto circuit boards a few microns thick.

As for making a profit, Twitter has never posted one. Aston Martin until relatively recently lost money on every car they sold, there are many comparable examples. Carbon fuels are costing more and more to find and exploit profitably. Apart from them destroying the planet.

The way forward is hydrogen power for what we now use internal combustion engines for. Batteries are a temporary stop gap.

My post had nothing to do with profit. It all depends on your location, but solar power can pay for itself in 2-3 years. And the companies that produce them in China most likely turn a profit, even if they get government support.

It was to show that solar energy has not been the panacea that activists like to tout. If you are generating more CO2 than you reduce, you are not helping the planet. If you are creating hazardous waste and increased pollutants, you are not helping the planet. You might be making China'a air dirtier than your own, but it is not a magic wand for the planet.

Batteries are an issue in themselves with all the lead, acid, lithium, mercury and other heavy metals, al great deal of which end up in landfills. They are getting better about recycling campaigns but even that is a dirty industry that generates CO2 by using energy and creates more hazardous waste.

There is a reason that half of the solar panels are manufactured in China. It wasn't just labor. Most of those factories can be automated.  The environmental concerns were seldom addressed until recently, so it was much cheaper to comply with EPA (and other countries regulations) by shifting manufacturing to Asia.

Hydrogen fuel cells are ok for small applications, but I have not seen anything that shows that they can scale up to megawatt or gigawatt range.

Fusion is going to be the answer, hopefully augmented by smaller, distributed thorium reactors.

Keep an eye on these guys and if they ever go public, watch their IPO. Their concept is for a boron fusion reactor that could be retrofitted into existing coal/gas power plants.

https://trialphaenergy.com

Quote from: akwilly on June 02, 2017, 02:27:03 PM
My dog wishes it would warm up

Still cold there, willy?  Thought you'd be well up into the 70's now.  Maybe you are having a colder than normal spring too?

The best evidence for climate change.  I don't know about you but I'm all for it if this is the result.

A hundred years ago





Today




albrecht

Quote from: akwilly on June 02, 2017, 02:27:03 PM
My dog wishes it would warm up
How does pup like the new place? Is that a glacier in the background of the photo? I thought Al Gore Jr and Hollywood actors told us a decade ago that they will all would've have melted by now?

akwilly

Quote from: albrecht on June 02, 2017, 04:22:49 PM
How does pup like the new place? Is that a glacier in the background of the photo? I thought Al Gore Jr and Hollywood actors told us a decade ago that they will all would've have melted by now?
the move has been hard on my dog but I've seen improvement's the last couple of days. He spent a week hiding in a pile of dirty cloths and coming out at night to pee on the floor

albrecht

Quote from: akwilly on June 02, 2017, 05:15:13 PM
the move has been hard on my dog but I've seen improvement's the last couple of days. He spent a week hiding in a pile of dirty cloths and coming out at night to pee on the floor
Hopefully he will get comfortable and like the new place. We all look forward to poo-burning updates on the other thread.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 02, 2017, 03:30:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULU-D6JOpHE

This was AJ and his merry band of destitutes in 2012 in the UK. The copper on the right looks like he's stifling a giggle.


Quote from: Yorkshire Pud on June 02, 2017, 06:42:20 PM
This was AJ and his merry band of destitutes in 2012 in the UK. The copper on the right looks like he's stifling a giggle.

I know a dude that went up to Bilderberg when it was in Chantilly, VA back in 2008.  Apparently you haven't lived until you've
partied with AJ in the Hotel bar after he's had a long day of bull horning the world elite. 

albrecht

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/02/531238185/bloomberg-promises-15-million-to-help-make-up-for-u-s-withdrawal-from-climate-de
Winning, I'm getting sick of it. Taxpayers and American businesses let off from paying and some billionaire is going to foot our portion of the bill. And actual representation in that local communities or States who want to pay for it and abide by the non-binding Paris Agreement have said they are doing so. Not some top-down mandate from DC or some international body.

GravitySucks

Quote from: albrecht on June 02, 2017, 07:16:02 PM
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/02/531238185/bloomberg-promises-15-million-to-help-make-up-for-u-s-withdrawal-from-climate-de
Winning, I'm getting sick of it. Taxpayers and American businesses let off from paying and some billionaire is going to foot our portion of the bill. And actual representation in that local communities or States who want to pay for it and abide by the non-binding Paris Agreement have said they are doing so. Not some top-down mandate from DC or some international body.

I hope he goes to jail under the Logan act.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Yorkshire Pud on June 02, 2017, 06:42:20 PM
This was AJ and his merry band of destitutes in 2012 in the UK.

I wonder if the compulsive need to look down on your fellow man is a genetic thing in England related to chronic inbreeding?  ???

Hog

Quote from: ItsOver on June 02, 2017, 09:56:11 AM
I had to laugh yesterday.  I'm on the road and just happen to be in the Cape Canaveral area, so I thought I'd catch the SpaceX launch scheduled for yesterday.  Launch projections, based upon weather predictions, were around 70% for a "go" up to about an hour prior to launch time.  Ha!  The launch was scrubbed at the last minute due to unfavorable weather.  Yet, we're suppose to believe climate predictions for decades in the future.  LOL.
You are comparing weather conditions with climate predictions?  That's an issue, as they are  different.

peace
Hog 




Hog

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 02, 2017, 07:22:40 PM
I wonder if the compulsive need to look down on your fellow man is a genetic thing in England related to chronic inbreeding?  ???
Pot calling the kettle black.

peace
Hog

albrecht

Quote from: GravitySucks on June 02, 2017, 07:22:02 PM
I hope he goes to jail under the Logan act.
It would be nice but I'm not sure this would be a violation, but certainly would like to see it tried. But the Logan Act is never, basically, used to a successful conclusion. Should be used more because it is an interesting thing and over the decades apparent violations have happened and would be interesting to see how the Court sees it.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Hog on June 02, 2017, 09:31:20 PM
Pot calling the kettle black.

peace
Hog

You think that's happening in England because of chronic inbreeding too?  ???

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