Latest French Attacks: updates (in English)

[pate]

I'm not sure Putin is ready to knuckle up, even against the French

Those alleged "surrender manques" are still in NATO, at least an a titular form, oui?

[paladin1991]

The French have been kicking some serious Muslim ass in Mali and other areas within the French sphere of influence in Africa, so I think it's a given they will continue to do so after the Paris attacks.  Agree also neither the Russians nor French want a military confrontation, but Assad and/or his military could put Putin in a no win situation.

Concurr. 

The French will ramp up ops and pursue terrorists more agressively.
Neither Pierre or Ivan want to duke it out with each other.  Each has business in Syria that both want to see come to fruition.

Assad?  This may be the end for that old boy.  Bombs have fallen in the wrong places before, accidentally and on purpose.

[pate]

Que-est ce, le mot en francair pour "SeekRut"?

Desolez....

[paladin1991]

Syria has no real naval capability.  Syrian AF would be target practice for the French.  It would have to be a Russian response.  There's (reportedly) a Russian surface action group in the E Med.  It could could get very nasty if Putin is nuts enough to put a torpedo or missile into DeGaulle.  France hasn't yet asked for a NATO Art. 5 commitment and I wonder if Obama has warned Hollande not to.

Geezer, it's just me, but I think this shit in Paris caught everyone by surprise, including Putin.  He's probably deep into Assads ass right now for allowing him to be blindsided.  Even though it's an ISIS gig.
Obama giving a warning?  If you were the leader of France, what would you respond to the big O? 

[paladin1991]

Yeah, and so did Saddam.  But just as with the Iraqis in 90, ISIS has never fought a modern military with combined arms capability, mobiliity, total control of the skies, and most importantly, a logistics system that can supply them with everything they need to fight and win, for as long as it takes.  Those ISIS cowards wouldn't be killing defenseless civilians or fighting local militias, they'd be facing a first rate, professional force in a ground war they could never win.  But you are right, it's a question of political will, not military capability.

The WILL to fight and the WILL to win.  Or some can just play dead or run real fast. 

[albrecht]

I'm not sure Putin is ready to knuckle up, even against the French.  It's one thing to cut off gas in the winter and flex petro muscle, another to hand your ppl a nuclear winter because you backed a third world tyrant who can't control his own people. 
The French have their blood up. The Syrians are scared shitless that the Legion is on it's way.  The Soviets are suddenly faced with a situation that they can't control. 
So much for the chessboard.   
Who's got the popcorn?

The French get a bad rep, sometimes. They can be good with dealing with a lot of stuff, but like their "long lunches" they still have capabilities for deception and. "not knowing." And, despite, purges and crap, still have tentacles and good sorts who can deal with 'stuff.' I think some will arise, again, to take care of business; if we let them.

[paladin1991]

Well, I'm certainly not defending either of them; and believe me, I could so easily join in with these war cries. I just know that in a few weeks or months from now when all the dust settles and all the facts are in that I'd feel like duped idiot if I did. The last time I gave the US the benefit of doubt about a military mission was the gulf war and pretty soon regretted it.

Which one? 

[SciFiAuthor]

Interesting read.

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/11/three_cheers_for_putin_in_syri.html

[paladin1991]

I don't really care if they share our ideals.  But if they don't share our basic values and respect for rights, we've got a serious problem.  So far, Muslims in the US have record better than a lot of previous immigrant groups had. The risk is that we now know for a fact that ISIS has successfully infiltrated the Syrian refugee pipeline into the West. What we don't know is how many may be in the almost 5000 per day getting into Europe, and soon coming to the US.  I'm also uncomfortable with the high proportion of young unattached young males in the refugees; those dudes ought to be shipped to Cyprus and watched.

Why send them to Cyprus?  You can't sink an island.  Ship the fuckers back to Syria and let them fight and die for their country.

[paladin1991]

Well, that's what I meant by ideals...and no, they often don't but in a democracy they're free to believe whatever they want and to try to elect someone who believes the same.

'We', myself included, need to slow down and be sure of the idea that we are attempting to communicate.  We must say what we mean and mean what we say.

[bateman]

... the Paris attacks appear to have been planned in Raqqa, Syria â€" the Islamic State's de-facto capital â€" where the attackers were trained specifically for this operation and with the intention of sending them to France.

In addition to their cute pep rallies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/iraq-warned-attacks_5648c5dfe4b045bf3def8640

Graeme Wood isn't so sure though:

We may yet find that IS's leaders were simply fools, and that they ordered exactly this attack and were pleased with its results, even if their PR department wasn't quite ready to capitalize on it. But in the meantime the possibility remains that their ability to inspire got ahead of their ability to control the results of that inspiration. Along with its loud rejoicing over Paris, IS in Syria may also be quietly worrying about what comes next.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/11/isil-whos-calling-the-shots-213360

[paladin1991]

Not to mention that Germany didn't dare invade them during WWII. The reasons for that were complicated, but one part of the equation was the bloodbath that it would have been.

Very interesting that.  Have to look into whether or not there is a book about that. 

[SciFiAuthor]

Very interesting that.  Have to look into whether or not there is a book about that.

While I would take it with the standard grain of salt when dealing with Wikipedia, it's a fun read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum

[paladin1991]

While I would take it with the standard grain of salt when dealing with Wikipedia, it's a fun read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum

I'd forgotten about that! 

[Dr. MD MD]

'We', myself included, need to slow down and be sure of the idea that we are attempting to communicate.  We must say what we mean and mean what we say.

The words "values" and "ideals" are synonymous. I sometimes prefer ideals to values because values took a big hit for me during the family values era of Reagan, Bush, et al

[paladin1991]

The words "values" and "ideals" are synonymous. I sometimes prefer ideals to values because values took a big hit for me during the family values era of Reagan, Bush, et al

LOL

[ItsOver]

While I would take it with the standard grain of salt when dealing with Wikipedia, it's a fun read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum

Interesting.  I'd wondered about the situation between Nazi Germany and Switzerland.  It almost sounds as if Switzerland was something Hitler just never got around to.

[VtaGeezer]

I'll never forget my first day of French 1 in high school in suburban St. Louis. I whipped out the Missouri French on the teacher and her jaw dropped. It's not very intelligible with metropolitan French, but close enough to be recognizable and she was shocked that despite living in MO and studying French her entire life she had never heard of the dialect. At least Louis Armstrong had decent songs.

When I lived in New Orleans in the 70s, the French govt. had the idea to send a number of French teachers to So. Louisiana, equipped with red Renault Le Cars to travel the bayou roads and teach French culture to Cajuns in the mother tongue.  In a few months they were all back in France because they couldn't understand Cajuns much more than an English speaker could. Things have changed; back then Cajun patois was still the lingua franca in bayou country, but speakership has plummeted in just two generations.

[albrecht]

I'd forgotten about that!

Not to give away plans but I think some of us here need our version of 'Schweizer Reduit' considering the state of the invasion here and situation.
ps: Obama doubles-down in response to radical Muslim attacks in Paris and says we need more "refugees" at a faster rate and also continues the open-border policy on the Southern flank. And the grand "Anonymous" claims it is going to target ISIS/ISIL/SI! Ha. Yah, they were so great with their previous claim to target cartels...and they cut and run so fast people have forgotten about that claim!

[FightTheFuture]

This just in...


Caesar Obamus, in what is being characterized as a bold gesture of solidarity with our French cousins, has elected to bomb a hospital and a baby formula manufacturer.

[VtaGeezer]

It's a paradox of sorts.  Though I don't like it, Obama's right about Islamists being something Islam must solve.  But OTOH that means leaving it to the Saudis and the usual suspects in golden burnouses.  Its like asking the drug cartels to self-regulate. Cut the head off that snake. Its the only solution.

[bateman]

How Belgium became a breeding ground for international terrorists

[SciFiAuthor]

When I lived in New Orleans in the 70s, the French govt. had the idea to send a number of French teachers to So. Louisiana, equipped with red Renault Le Cars to travel the bayou roads and teach French culture to Cajuns in the mother tongue.  In a few months they were all back in France because they couldn't understand Cajuns much more than an English speaker could. Things have changed; back then Cajun patois was still the lingua franca in bayou country, but speakership has plummeted in just two generations.

Cajun is flat out its own language. Most North American French dialects are close enough that they can muddle through understanding each other due to a relation one way or another to Quebec, but not the Cajuns. I think some small groups in eastern Canada can make sense of it, but its just a really unique dialect that should be preserved.

[Eddie Coyle]

  Boston's plaster-haired, faux blue collar, genuine yuppie "mayah" just played the "We can't turn our back on Syrian Refugees" card by mentioning how his parents were immigrants from Ireland. That old canard. Content and context free.

   For fuck's sake, Marty, you were born, does that make you Pro-Life?

[SciFiAuthor]

It's a paradox of sorts.  Though I don't like it, Obama's right about Islamists being something Islam must solve.  But OTOH that means leaving it to the Saudis and the usual suspects in golden burnouses.  Its like asking the drug cartels to self-regulate. Cut the head off that snake. Its the only solution.

The big problem is that sunni moderates realize that what ISIS practices is extremely Islamic. It's the original form of the religion and they're deeply uncomfortable with that and uncertain just how to deal with it. Saudi Arabia already practices a somewhat extreme form of Islam and are not inclined to do anything until ISIS threatens Saudi Arabia itself.

[Eddie Coyle]

  "ISIS directly threatens Washington DC"

   Hell, I think they're trying to win OUR hearts and minds.

[GravitySucks]

The big problem is that sunni moderates realize that what ISIS practices is extremely Islamic. It's the original form of the religion and they're deeply uncomfortable with that and uncertain just how to deal with it. Saudi Arabia already practices a somewhat extreme form of Islam and are not inclined to do anything until ISIS threatens Saudi Arabia itself.

The Suadis are building the type of fence we should have on our southern border (and northern border if the Canadians ever get designs on the Stanley Cup or keep allowing Muslim "refugees" in).

The Saudis refuse to take any muslim refugees. That, right there, should be the storyline. If the Saudis don't trust them, we shouldn't trust them.

I imagine the next Hadj is going to be REALLY interesting.

[3OctaveFart]

The hacktivists vow to strike back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34836400/anonymous-declares-war-on-islamic-state

[Eddie Coyle]

The hacktivists vow to strike back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34836400/anonymous-declares-war-on-islamic-state

   The campaign likely ending with the first severed head with a Guy Fawkes mask. They'll retreat to outing Stormfront members.

[SciFiAuthor]

The Saudis refuse to take any muslim refugees. That, right there, should be the storyline. If the Saudis don't trust them, we shouldn't trust them.

Well, one of ISIS's stated goals is toppling the Saudi royal family. They're not going to take any chances. 

I imagine the next Hadj is going to be REALLY interesting.

Oh man. It'll be some kind of nightmare that the Saudis will try to keep hushed.