Bakegab: The Bellgab Bakeshop

[albrecht]

Yeah I am referring the "classic" phenotype, to the extent such a thing exists, which goes back to the Viking era.  Viking-age skeletons were notoriously difficult to sex prior to DNA testing as they showed less dimorphism (more androgyny) than normal in facial structure, with comparatively dainty males and robust females.  A few feminist scholars got excited finding "female" graves with swords in them, thinking they found the legendary amazons of the North, but they were just gracile males.  Add that to Al-Tartushi's report that both sexes in Hedeby (around the turn of the first millennium, smack in the middle of the Viking era) wore makeup and you get a rather different picture of the guys with the axes.

I didn't get the blond hair, either, but my blond cousins are all going bald early and at an alarming rate, so I'll gladly play the hand I was dealt.

I get an ad (not here on BG but on tv) I assume it wasn't specific, though a 'smart' tv and cable box so one doesn't really know, but was surprised some drug company would have advertised because a relatively rare disease and mostly associated with those of "viking" descent. So I could see airing in markets in MN or up near you but to do nationally or here? Weird. But maybe it was targeted since technology would allow this? I've had relatives who had it but, so far, not me....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupuytren%27s_contracture
https://dupuytrens-contracture.xiaflex.com/hcp/

[K_Dubb]

I get an ad (not here on BG but on tv) I assume it wasn't specific, though a 'smart' tv and cable box so one doesn't really know, but was surprised some drug company would have advertised because a relatively rare disease and mostly associated with those of "viking" descent. So I could see airing in markets in MN or up near you but to do nationally or here? Weird. But maybe it was targeted since technology would allow this? I've had relatives who had it but, so far, not me....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupuytren%27s_contracture
https://dupuytrens-contracture.xiaflex.com/hcp/

Strange, I don't know anyone who has that.  Grandma had, and all the aunties have, pretty severe arthritis in their hands, though not my mom.  We thought it was knitting at first but the one youngest auntie who only knits a little has it worst of all.

[K_Dubb]

My personal hypothesis is that wheat and rye have two different yeasts that aren't compatible.

I was just reading about this yesterday in the Wikipedia article about rugbrød:

Sourdough is almost always used for the base dough, as commercial yeasts are unsuitable. The naturally fermented dough will develop a Lactobacillus culture in symbiotic combination with naturally present yeasts. It is essential in baking rye-based breads because the chemistry of rye flour produces an environment that is acidic. The most commonly present yeast species in the production of naturally leavened dough is Saccharomyces exiguus, which is more acid-tolerant than commercially produced S. cerevisiae, although the latter and other strains may also be present. Research has shown that when creating a naturally fermented starter, any naturally present S. cerevisiae will have died off after a few days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugbr%C3%B8d

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

We give you Shakespeare,

400 years ago

Keats,

200 years ago

Wordsworth,

200 years ago

Byron.

200 years ago.

Since that time, we have given you the concept of a government that exists to serve its citizens; Emerson, Twain; Dickinson; Faulkner; Fitzgerald; Frost, Hawthorne; Hemingway; London; Melville; Poe; Steinbeck, Thoreau; Whitman; and we bailed your asses out of two world wars.  What have you done for us lately?  Like, how to gracefully exit a political union without throwing the world economy into turmoil?  Surely not.  A Billy no-mates who grew up to be an uphill gardening slag, that's you mate.

[WOTR]

That's your cultural gift to the world. We give you Shakespeare, Keats, Wordsworth, Byron. And then you bastards piss in our faces with McDonald's and Justin Bieber. Bunch of cunts.

Yes... Finally. It was "their" fault. 

[Dr. MD MD]

Yes... Finally. It was "their" fault. 

Not so fast! Bieber is Canadian. One of your colonies, Shred. Turns out you’re the cunts after all.

[Jojo]

I get an ad (not here on BG but on tv) I assume it wasn't specific, though a 'smart' tv and cable box so one doesn't really know, but was surprised some drug company would have advertised because a relatively rare disease and mostly associated with those of "viking" descent. So I could see airing in markets in MN or up near you but to do nationally or here? Weird. But maybe it was targeted since technology would allow this? I've had relatives who had it but, so far, not me....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupuytren%27s_contracture
https://dupuytrens-contracture.xiaflex.com/hcp/

Here is a good article about contractures in the very elderly.  It mentions causes and ways to prevent them.
https://www.premierlegal.org/contractures-are-a-form-of-nursing-home-abuse-and-neglect/j

Just thinking about kneeding dough makes my hands hurt, but actually I think contractures come from lack of use.

[WOTR]

I procrastinate on feeding the poor thing and it goes the way of Art Bell.

I have to say that is the best part of this thread so far... 

Sourdough is, absolutely, dependent on the region you live in. I will try to snap a picture of the couple of pages in professor Calvel's book dedicated to sourdough starter. He maintains that producing a starter in 3 days is not too difficult if you follow the directions (he adds malt to 50 /50 wheat / rye flour as well as some salt.)

Though you can create your own (and any purchased starter would eventually revert to contain the cultures in your area of the world), there is something about starters that have a history that makes sourdough feel "right." The friends of Carl starter apparently started in 1847 Missouri. The thought of baking with King Arthur's starter or Carls starter sounds better than the starter that I whipped up three days ago...

As for rye breads, professor Calvel says that adding wheat flour and ensuring an acidic environment is necessary. "the high pentosan content of rye flour prevents the formation of a gluten network... In addition, the enzymes in remain active for a time after the starch gelatinizes during baking. These enzymes break down the starch in the bread with predictably mushy results.It is absolutely necessary to use a recipe involving a method of acidification or a sour to keep the enzymes in check... Kneading must be kept to a minimum necessary for gluten formation in order to avoid the breakdown of the small amount of gluten present." Perhaps the acid in the "levain de pate" is why I like my sour dough ryes?

[WOTR]

Not so fast! Bieber is Canadian. One of your colonies, Shred. Turns out you’re the cunts after all.

Maybe so. But it appears that we have finally managed to pass him off as an product of American culture to the rest of the world. 

[WOTR]

I was just reading about this yesterday in the Wikipedia article about rugbrød:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugbr%C3%B8d

It is interesting. Wikipedia seems to state that the sourdough is necessary because rye flour will produce an acidic environment where commercial yeasts fail to thrive. Calvel seems to say that you require a method to ensure that the rye is acidic in order to bake a good, not mushy loaf.

I understand that the two are saying the same general thing (the rye dough is acidic.) However, one seems to have it as a unintended cause making the use of different yeasts necessary, where the other says that an acidic environment needs to be the goal of baking rye bread. A chicken and egg scenario.

[Dr. MD MD]

I demand that The Bellgab Bakeshop bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding or you’re all horrible racists who should be publicly chastised and spat upon.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

I demand that The Bellgab Bakeshop bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding

Congratulations!  Who's the lucky guy?

[SredniVashtar]

Congratulations!  Who's the lucky guy?

Shit. I just posted something similar and had to remove it lest I be accused of plagiarism again.

[SredniVashtar]

400 years ago

200 years ago

200 years ago

200 years ago.

Since that time, we have given you the concept of a government that exists to serve its citizens; Emerson, Twain; Dickinson; Faulkner; Fitzgerald; Frost, Hawthorne; Hemingway; London; Melville; Poe; Steinbeck, Thoreau; Whitman; and we bailed your asses out of two world wars.  What have you done for us lately?  Like, how to gracefully exit a political union without throwing the world economy into turmoil?  Surely not.  A Billy no-mates who grew up to be an uphill gardening slag, that's you mate.

Oh, aren't you the feisty one! Sure, we can all come up with a 'concept', just as I can come up with an aircraft carrier made out of shower curtain rings and lemon meringue, but it doesn't mean it really exists. If government over there exists to serve its citizens how come you can't even manage decent healthcare?

The world war thing is getting very old, particularly as we sent you a couple of very polite thankyou notes, and even a gift voucher after the second one. If you're seriously comparing Shakespeare etc to that bunch of second and third-raters then it merely confirms my already subterranean opinion of you.

My lack of friends is just because I happen to be choosy about the company I keep. Anyway, hanging out in bars etc would cut into my precious mollusc-destroying time.

In closing, fuck you.

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

Oh, aren't you the feisty one! Sure, we can all come up with a 'concept', just as I can come up with an aircraft carrier made out of shower curtain rings and lemon meringue, but it doesn't mean it really exists. If government over there exists to serve its citizens how come you can't even manage decent healthcare?

[shrug] Okay, if you must, consider it a principle, like "all men are created equal."  Because we are human, we fail at it.  But 250 years later, the principles are still there, still revered, and we are still trying. 

Meanwhile, your queen, who is 9300 years old, has cemented a social strata in the culture of Great Britain.  That's why you guys haven't done shit lately in the world of literature.  You've got drunks (Scotland), fags with bad teeth (England), gingers that blow up shit (Northern Ireland), and the smoldering resentment of being "Oh yeah, them too" (Wales).  What happens when Boris Yeltsen yanks the UK rug out from under Brexit and the next Great Depression chugs into gear?  I can't wait until Charles becomes king.  He's going to strip the royals to the bone.  There will only be about 10 people who are in the royal class.  The rest will have to ride the fucking bus to the squash courts.  Then he's going to set it up with William to get Archie (an American citizen) elected President of the USA.  Then everyone in line in front of Archie will abdicate en masse, and Archie will be the President AND King of England at the same time.  Fuckin' A:  "Make America Great Britain Again"  That's when we will get decent health care, my swishy friend.  And bangers and toast served in every Hardee's in the south. 

If you're seriously comparing Shakespeare etc to that bunch of second and third-raters

Shakespeare, Chaucer, and Milton are the giants.  I give you a pogi point for dodging that there was no USA back then, or they would have left the fuckin UK and gone there.

My lack of friends is just because I happen to be choosy about the company I keep.

I'm sure.

In closing, fuck you.

That literally made me laugh out loud, and at my desk at work, no less.  Everyone's a little jumpy here about that fuckin "Joker" movie.  So they're all on edge right now, thanks to you, you monster.

[K_Dubb]

It is interesting. Wikipedia seems to state that the sourdough is necessary because rye flour will produce an acidic environment where commercial yeasts fail to thrive. Calvel seems to say that you require a method to ensure that the rye is acidic in order to bake a good, not mushy loaf.

I understand that the two are saying the same general thing (the rye dough is acidic.) However, one seems to have it as a unintended cause making the use of different yeasts necessary, where the other says that an acidic environment needs to be the goal of baking rye bread. A chicken and egg scenario.

It gets really confusing since I've made beautifully high and round loaves of rye bread with commercial yeast and that, when looking into what bakeries generally list as "dough improvers", you find vitamin C powder added to create an acidic environment that commercial yeast "likes".  I went searching for some answers but got sidetracked by the delightful etymology of "pumpernickel":

The philologist Johann Christoph Adelung states that the word has an origin in the Germanic vernacular where pumpern was a New High German synonym for being flatulent, and Nickel was a form of the name Nicholas, commonly associated with a goblin or devil (e.g. Old Nick, a familiar name for Satan), or more generally for a malevolent spirit or demon. Hence, pumpernickel means "devil's fart", a definition accepted by the publisher Random House, and by some English language dictionaries, including the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. The American Heritage Dictionary adds "so named from being hard to digest". A variant of this explanation is also given by the German etymological dictionary Kluge that says the word is older than its usage for the particular type of bread, and may have been used as a mocking name for a person of unrefined manners ("farting Nick") first. The change of meaning may have been caused by its use as a mocking expression for the (in the eyes of outsiders) unrefined rye bread produced by the Westphalian population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpernickel

[Dr. MD MD]

Congratulations!  Who's the lucky guy?

Your father.

[Dr. MD MD]

Shit. I just posted something similar and had to remove it lest I be accused of plagiarism again.

Don’t let that sttop you. We already know you’re derivative and unoriginal.

[SredniVashtar]

Don’t let that sttop you. We already know you’re derivative and unoriginal.

We? Are you the spokesperson on behalf of your multiple personalities? What a shame, you'd think, just going on the law of averages, that at least one wouldn't be a tedious wank-candle, but it looks like you drew the short (like your restricted stature) straw.

[WOTR]

It gets really confusing since I've made beautifully high and round loaves of rye bread with commercial yeast and that, when looking into what bakeries generally list as "dough improvers", you find vitamin C powder added to create an acidic environment that commercial yeast "likes".  I went searching for some answers but got sidetracked by the delightful etymology of "pumpernickel":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpernickel

First- the pumpernickel bit was an interesting read.

Out of curiosity- was your rye bread a mixture of flour (say 50/50 or 60/40?) Calvel says that the quality of rye bread is improved when it is made from relatively acid doughs, and that in countries that are large scale producers of rye bread generally use a natural levain without bakers yeast. However, when rye bread represents only a small portion of a countries bread output they usually find it more practical to use bakers yeast and it is best add between .2 and .4% citric acid or 1% vinegar to the dough.

This idea almost flies in the face of the wikipedia article. Bakers yeasts can be used- and it is best to add acid to the dough in order to keep the enzymes in check.

I think that the point of making it with a sour dough culture is to provide the additional acidity. If making it with bakers yeast, it is best to add some additional acid to the mix.

Either way, it would appear that the secret is to knead it as little as possible, and that the addition of regular flour helps with the gluten formation.

[Kidnostad3]

We? Are you the spokesperson on behalf of your multiple personalities? What a shame, you'd think, just going on the law of averages, that at least one wouldn't be a tedious wank-candle, but it looks like you drew the short (like your restricted stature) straw.

Who other than you would know what a "wank-candle" is without having to google it?  The range and depth of your interests and conversancy are truly impressive albeit decidedly on the freaky side.  Not to worry though--nobody's judging you here. 

[K_Dubb]

First- the pumpernickel bit was an interesting read.

Out of curiosity- was your rye bread a mixture of flour (say 50/50 or 60/40?) Calvel says that the quality of rye bread is improved when it is made from relatively acid doughs, and that in countries that are large scale producers of rye bread generally use a natural levain without bakers yeast. However, when rye bread represents only a small portion of a countries bread output they usually find it more practical to use bakers yeast and it is best add between .2 and .4% citric acid or 1% vinegar to the dough.

This idea almost flies in the face of the wikipedia article. Bakers yeasts can be used- and it is best to add acid to the dough in order to keep the enzymes in check.

I think that the point of making it with a sour dough culture is to provide the additional acidity. If making it with bakers yeast, it is best to add some additional acid to the mix.

Either way, it would appear that the secret is to knead it as little as possible, and that the addition of regular flour helps with the gluten formation.

Yes, it is a Swedish rye bread about half and half, made with orange juice (and peel) which I thought was only for flavor but from what you have uncovered must be there for an additional reason.

[Spookcat]

If I may ask a quick question: do you guys think $75-$100 is too much for a cooking class that teaches how to make goro, sandbakkeler, sirupsnipper , Berlinerkranser, strull and krumkaker, fattigman, and rosettes?
I'm curious, but not sure.

[K_Dubb]

If I may ask a quick question: do you guys think $75-$100 is too much for a cooking class that teaches how to make goro, sandbakkeler, sirupsnipper , Berlinerkranser, strull and krumkaker, fattigman, and rosettes?
I'm curious, but not sure.

I don't know what strull are (maybe somebody's family name for something else) but none of the others are difficult technique-wise and I managed just fine the first time reading a recipe; it's just that if you want to make them at home you will need special equipment which, for me, is where I'd rather put my money.  Goro, krumkaker, and rosetter each take a special iron, sandbakkelser take little tart tins, and for fattigmenn and sirupsnitter you need a tiny crimped pastry cutter (though for fattigmenn you can get a special cutter that does all the cuts at once).

Berlinerkranser are the only ones you can make without a special tool and they are super easy and delicious -- you just need to find vanilla sugar (or vanilla powder, which I use) and pearl sugar.

The only real thing to watch out for is that using an old-style long-handled iron for goro and krumkaker on a modern stovetop makes flames since the batter drips fat out constantly onto the burner.  Modern waffle-iron-style appliances were invented to prevent this.

[Kidnostad3]

If I may ask a quick question: do you guys think $75-$100 is too much for a cooking class that teaches how to make goro, sandbakkeler, sirupsnipper , Berlinerkranser, strull and krumkaker, fattigman, and rosettes?
I'm curious, but not sure.

Not too much if they also teach you how to pronounce their names in proper high German. 

[K_Dubb]

Not too much if they also teach you how to pronounce their names in proper high German.

Those are Norwegian, a language spoken long before anybody had ever heard of a German, which is why I take issue with the modern classification system.

Many of the early linguists were 19th-century Germans imbued with the new spirit of German nationalism and tended to group everything accordingly, trying to portray the new nation as a sort of European homeland with potent results in the next century where language served as a pretext for expansionist ambitions.

[Kidnostad3]

Those are Norwegian, a language spoken long before anybody had ever heard of a German, which is why I take issue with the modern classification system.

Many of the early linguists were 19th-century Germans imbued with the new spirit of German nationalism and tended to group everything accordingly, trying to portray the new nation as a sort of European homeland with potent results in the next century where language served as a pretext for expansionist ambitions.

I stand corrected.  Eratta:  "...if they teach you how to pronounce their names in proper high Norwegian."

[K_Dubb]

OK so a strull is like a krumkake but wrapped around a stick instead of a cone.  I've seen those but just thought the people didn't have the little wooden cone you use to try to keep your fingertips from burning.



The important thing to remember about Norwegian cookies is that, in an acutely status-conscious peasant society, half the point of the cookie was showing people you could afford the special tool to make them and (in an era when people still cooked over open fires) an oven to bake them in.  Thus you find old goro irons with monograms custom made by the local blacksmith, just to rub it in.  There is a hierarchy from goro with your personal stamp at the top to fattigmenn (poor men) at the bottom which could be cut and fried by any poor laborer's wife in a pot of oil over the fire.

This passive-aggressive one-upsmanship around baked goods is still seen in any gathering of old Norwegian ladies who must be the most spiteful and gossipy people on the planet and will never taste a cookie without some hazy reminiscence of somebody who could make it better.  The waffle-type cookies are pretty but, to modern tastes, aren't that great, and you find people trying various things to make them tastier, like dipping in chocolate (ugh how banal) or filling with Nutella (Eurotrash crack) or berries and whipped cream (not bad).  I just put a lot of cardamom in (that is the smell of Christmas to me) and hope for the best.

[Kidnostad3]

OK so a strull is like a krumkake but wrapped around a stick instead of a cone.  I've seen those but just thought the people didn't have the little wooden cone you use to try to keep your fingertips from burning.



The important thing to remember about Norwegian cookies is that, in an acutely status-conscious peasant society, half the point of the cookie was showing people you could afford the special tool to make them and (in an era when people still cooked over open fires) an oven to bake them in.  Thus you find old goro irons with monograms custom made by the local blacksmith, just to rub it in.  There is a hierarchy from goro with your personal stamp at the top to fattigmenn (poor men) at the bottom which could be cut and fried by any poor laborer's wife in a pot of oil over the fire.

This passive-aggressive one-upsmanship around baked goods is still seen in any gathering of old Norwegian ladies who must be the most spiteful and gossipy people on the planet and will never taste a cookie without some hazy reminiscence of somebody who could make it better.  The waffle-type cookies are pretty but, to modern tastes, aren't that great, and you find people trying various things to make them tastier, like dipping in chocolate (ugh how banal) or filling with Nutella (Eurotrash crack) or berries and whipped cream (not bad).  I just put a lot of cardamom in (that is the smell of Christmas to me) and hope for the best.

How can you say such a thing?   Have you not seen "I Remember Mama?"


https://youtu.be/5zlXPUsNaos

[K_Dubb]

How can you say such a thing?   Have you not seen "I Remember Mama?"

I have not seen it; what a cute show!  Now I want to make some hjertevafler med gjær to have with coffee and some of Shreddie's favorite brown cheese.