You Got Fans Micheal

[marijman]

Hey I love the streamer and thanks for keeping it going, I suggest everyone download it, too bad about shoutcast, fuck them. you know they just want the money, its a sign of how far george noory has taken coast to coast down. God I Miss Art!

[EvB]

As much as I'd like to blame George - I think it's more a sign of how copyright law - originally intended to put limits on copyright so that work entered the public domain in a reasonable amount of time and therefore contributed to further cultural creation - has now become a tool for greed and social stagnation.

 

[EvilKurisu]

Another example of Premrats keeping an eye out for little georgy snoory; I'm sure they must have thought to themselves "Shit if people can hear how good Art was/is and compare that to the remedial puppet we have in his place we gonna loose subscribers to shitlink"

I seem to remember them cracking down hard on any sites hosting even one or two Art mp3's a few years ago, and all that happened was that Art bell lovers moved underground, ie set up private Ftps, or Direct Connect hubs; they cant stop this stuff they can just be a pain in the arse.

I've spent years building up a nice collection of Art shows  (one day I might get round to archiving them ); I found ufoship about a year ago and must say I use it almost daily,in fact my girlfriend now listens every night and she never even heard of Art bell before she heard him on your site.
I salute you for your time and effort Michael  and it's rare thesedays to find someone who genuinely invests their time and money for the good of something and not just to make money ! .

I do have access a fairly decent sized web server (UK) and if theres any way I can help I would be more than happy to !

The sad thing about all this is that Premiere/Snoory is sooo far removed from the good old days when Art did Dreamland and calls weren't screened and hell the guests were good, that its embarrassing its the complete antipathy of what Art set out to do.
Art was never a corporate gimp monkey like Sonora and the way Premiere runs it's shit thesedays is beyond lame.

Many thanks Michael and I am sure it's not only myself that would be happy to do whatever we can to help keep the stream/site going !

All the best dude

[conllo]

Not trying to be agurementative, but i would bet it is George, did'nt he send a letter or email once threatening a suite if the site didn't just stop!

I could be wrong but I wouldn't past this scum bag to have pushed clear channel to do something about it!

By the way I heard of shout cast while listening to the streamer when you said you were not making any money from the stream and that you were not
doing them any harm, well on my own personal opinion the only reason I would have to visit clear channel would be to listen or find out if art bell was going to be on the air, having said that, I wont visit clear channel when I can come here and listen to art bell reruns, because as I have said time and time again and firmly believe that I would rather listen to Art bell reruns every day than even listen to one show of old Mr sucks him self

[ninjashoes]

yeah Im glad the streamer is staying up

what crazy is that the stream was my first experience listening to art bell, without it I wouldnt have even become a fan, I still havent even heard noory once

I dont think you can pen this one on Noory though, its premiere radio networks or whatever, thats the thing about pirating sometimes it hurts but othertimes it beneficial because it just exposes more people to a great thing. I mean I already bought one of Arts books because of the stream and loved it.

keep it up micheal

[EvB]

Not trying to be agurementative, but i would bet it is George, did'nt he send a letter or email once threatening a suite if the site didn't just stop!

I could be wrong but I wouldn't past this scum bag to have pushed clear channel to do something about it!

You don't strike me as argumentative.  The fact is we could both be right. This notion that "intellectual property" belongs to some individual - practically forever - has infected everyone. And I - admittedly - have a serious bug up my butt about the issue in a much broader sense than something as simple as streaming old radio shows. The legal eagles who handle artists, and in many cases the artists themselves, have allowed greed and ego to blind them to how everyone benefits from sharing creative process and product.

Take J.K. Rowling for example.  She started out just getting by (not as dirt poor as the media made her out at first, since we all love "rags to riches" stories - but far from wealthy.)  At first, she took fan fiction and other derivative works on the Harry Potter series as complementary, and a sign of her success.  No longer!  Within the past year or less, someone tried to publish an encyclopedia of the Harry Potter world and the people/things in it. Ms. Rowling had planned to do so herself. SO WHAT?  She says it's bad - AGAIN SO WHAT?!  It's an "Unofficial" lexicon.  If Rowling does finish her own, it will, presumably, be better.  THe "official" version, if you will. The contrast can only serve to increase her sales. However, instead of going to work on her own lexicon, she's spending her time in court.

Read what another fantasy author has to say on the subject here: http://www.linearpublishing.com/RhinoStory.html

and a "fan" site here:  http://www.geocities.com/sayswamp/worst.htm


An Art Bell stream can only serve to keep his brilliance in the pubic consciousness - though there is a difference.  MV isn't writing or broadcasting BASED on Art's work - he's using it in toto - however, he isn't making any money on it.  (which, BTW - where the law is concerned isn't the primary issue - though it is part of the issue) Okay, so it's not legal, (though the HP lexicon may be -- the case was supposed to be settled by now but I haven't found anything on that yet) but - DAMN!  Who is he really taking anything from?  He's not CLAIMING it's his own, he's not charging. I think the argument can be made that his stream is GOOD for Art - though admittedly not good for George since it goes hand in had with his opinion of George as, well, we all know his opinion of George.  And THAT may be more to the point where Noory is concerned.)

Yes, the situations are quite different.  Rowling and her reps are just flat out being assholes.  MV has infringed on copyright as I understand it.  But again, the whole intellectual property law arena is so out of hand I DON'T CARE.  As far as I'm concerned, the stream is civil disobedience at it's finest.

A very quick and dirty history of copyright law in the US:

Originally, it was intend to LIMIT the amount of time a creator could have exclusive right to their work.  Copyright had to be applied for, or any works were automatically in the pubic domain. The limit, when life expectancy was much shorter, was 14 years.  An author could reapply for an additionally 14 years at the end of that time.

Then, the terms were changed to 28 years plus 28, again, IF APPLIED FOR.  Still fairly reasonable as life expectancy increased, particularly since one had to apply and could choose to allow work to revert to public domain. 

Long story short - copyrights have gotten longer and longer (currently life + 70 years for an individual, 100 years for a company UNLESS the concept is reused, at which point the clock starts over - hence cheapo DVDs like Lion King 5152 which no one will ever see but Disney doesn't care.  (I don't really know how many Lion Kings there are - but you get the point) Disney KNOWS they are crap.  What they want is to maintain exclusive rights to the original as long as possible.

Add to that the fact that copyrights are now AUTOMATIC.  Once something is in a form that can be communicated to others - presuming it can be called original - it belongs to the creator.  This applies to EVERYTHING including that doodle you did on the paper napkin at your favorite breakfast joint last week, or the silly ditty you sang into your computer.  Now, the job of the US Copyright office is simply to record dates for $10 so that if you do end up in court, you have proof, which may or may not stand up in court (usually it will). 

Before his death, Sonny Bono proposed that copyright be extended FOREVER.  When it was pointed out that his proposal was unconstitutional, some congressional wag suggested "how about forever minus one day - that's a limit!"  (I don't know if they were kidding or not.)  Mary Bono - who took over Sonny's seat - has continued to press the issue with the help of deep pocket lobbyists - many of whom are funded by Disney.  Walt Disney himself made his original fortune on derivative works! (We all know about Snow White and so on, but even the original Micky Mouse (Steamboat Willy) was a contemporary parody of a Buster Keaton film called Steamboat Bill Jr.

Siiiiiiiiiiigh

/rant


Okay - I lied - one more piece of rant -- you may or may not think that Andy Warhol was brilliant.  No one can argue that he had impact on the world of art.  Today, his work would be banned as infringement. Oh PLEASE people!  WHY is, for example, the Campbell Soup logo so very famous?  HINT:  It's not the quality of their product.

Now, I'll TRY to stop . . . .

And FAIL

I forgot to mention that the original Bono bill proposal included a clause that would make the law RETROACTIVE.  The "public domain" is already dissolving before our eyes -  this woud have made it go "Poof" with a stroke of a pen.  The pubic domain has a purpose, and that purpose is to allow culture to grow.  Building upon previous works - as a complement to the original creator and as a method or creation - has been around since (human) creativity began. Without it - the rich get richer, and we all (even the "rich") become culturally poorer - in fact, BANKRUPT.

[MV/Liberace!]

evb... thanks for that post.  very insightful.  let me just say this:

although i do understand the nature of legality, i'm tired of the unnecessary complexity which is being injected into our lives on an increasing basis.  i don't believe in 90% of the premise behind copyright law unless it is applicable to a situation in which the creator of a work is being directly and immediately harmed.  as such, i do not intend to respect the demands of anybody in this case.  i'm just disgusted with what this country has become and the lack of freedom we truly have.  my wife and i plan to move back to morocco in a few years.  permanently.  god i can't wait.

[EvB]

evb... thanks for that post.  very insightful.  let me just say this:

  i don't believe in 90% of the premise behind copyright law unless it is applicable to a situation in which the creator of a work is being directly and immediately harmed.  as such, i do not intend to respect the demands of anybody in this case. 

I'm behind you.  100%

[ninjashoes]

I'm gonna start going into withdrawals if I dont get my daily dose of UFO's and shadow people

[VictoryAli]

I'm just here to show support as well. The stream is great and the commercials in between by I'm assuming Michael are dry and hilarious to me and seem to fit in with the shows well. But yeah Michael you should consider taking donations for the stream because I would throw a couple bucks your way and I'm sure many others would as well. Like give people who donated designated spaces on the stream so they could always access it. But that wouldn't be necessary for people to want to donate to you.

[MV/Liberace!]

yes, it would be possible to reserve spots for specific ip addresses on the stream for those who donate which would be a great idea.  more to come on this.  we shall not be defeated.

[PhantasticSanShiSan]

yes, it would be possible to reserve spots for specific ip addresses on the stream for those who donate which would be a great idea.  more to come on this.  we shall not be defeated.

HUZZAH!!