Removal of the Confederate Flag

[11angeleyes11]

Many of the threads have very clever topics, and this may already be covered in one, but I could not wade through them all.  I did not see a clear sign from the titles this had been covered.

This has been a topic that on the face of it is just the removal of a "racist", not my words, but implied by some.  It has been a hot topic this week on some websites.  This was blogged, and I thought I would just share this.  I could link, but I like words.


OUR RIGHTS SHOULD NOT BE WAIVED BY THE REMOVAL OF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG

Posted on June 27, 2015 by The Eclectic Muse    
 

For the purposes of full disclosure, you may call me a Southern.  I live down the highway that has set up a Confederate Park, complete with a life-detailed statue of a Southern soldier and a cannon that is a remainder of the civil war.  The flag flies on a pole with a flag that flies over the interstate.  There is a banner erected to celebrate Jefferson Davis’s birthday.  I pass by it daily on my working trips, but it does not disturb me.  It is a reminder just as the Confederate Flag is itself.

Now in line with the reality television description of a Southern, I am not a redneck.  I do not have the Confederate flag for living room drapes, and I do not adorn different shades of camo daily as a sip from my moonshine still.  I am an American.  One who is deeply troubled by events that have occurred, and the rapid unthought-out response to the removal of the Confederate flag.   I am NOT a racist.  Everyone is created equal,  and should be treated equally with respect and graciousness.

What I do find alarming as an American is the response that major retailers such as Amazon and Walmart have taken by the removal of the Confederate flag and the memorabilia.  I attempted to do a Google search for confederate flag, and the filters would not allow me to access it.  Some have stated that the flag companies are going to cease to manufacture it.  Where did this originate from, this mass anti-confederate flag hysteria?  There is discussion that although not an Executive Order, it was originated from Washington.

There has even been recommendations from Senator of Kentucky, Mitch McConnell, that a statue of Jefferson Davis be removed from the Kentucky State capitol.  Now that decision is being considered by the Historic Preservation Advisory Commission 401 Wapping Street, Frankfort, Kentucky  40601.  They will be soliciting recommendations on the removal or not on the statute until July 29, 2015, and meeting shortly after that to determine the fate of the historical statute.  What this has done, is that as an American, to preserve this historical thread, you must take precious time to fight just for the maintenance of the status quo.

To me, tolerance is one of the hallmarks of the American backbone.  Our country has been a melting pot of nationalities and beliefs for centuries, that is until now.  We may not believe as one group does, but as long as that belief does not impinge or hurt another unjustly it is tolerated.  The removal of the Confederate flag and the surrounding collectables demonstrates an egregious lack of tolerance.  In fact it impinges on the individual rights of the First Amendment.

I show all due respect and condolences for losses under the Confederate flag.  I do not want one, do not own one, nor do I plans on purchasing one in the future, but there are those that do, and they as Americans should have remaining rights to do so.

Generally, a flag is a symbol of a belief or thought that is waved.  It is a symbolic means of communication.  For example, many, many Americans wear and waive the American flag on patriotic holidays.  We are demonstrating our feelings for America by the gesture of the flag.  As a means of communications, I would present, that it is protected under the First Amendment freedom of speech provisions.  To disallow the presentation and display of the flag, would be an impingement of our First Amendment rights of freedom of speech.  By disallowing the display of the Confederate flag is also impinging and infringing upon our First Amendment rights of freedom of speech.

The interpretation of the Confederate flag, as is the American flag, is in the eyes of the beholder.  One interpretation of the Confederate flag is it is a symbol to stand up for what you believe in.  If we do not do that as an American country, we are not asserting  our  strengths  as a nation.  It tends to give a socialist impression at times.  Although, on some topics we do not need to articulate that.

The Confederate flag is also a historical symbol.  It’s historical significance comes from a time in our nations’s history when we were making decisions that were wrong. It is a symbol of what not to do in the future, it is a reminder of that.  It is important. To suppress the importance of that symbol, deemphasizes the importance of never reaching a similar point in our history again.  By the recent decisions it whitewashes our history and makes our historical heritage untrue.  The flying of that flag may be offensive to some, but to others in the South it memorialize  family lineage that fought and died.  Again, tolerance is requested to those that find it offensive and tolerance is an important American value, one that is in short supply in Washington and our leaders.

Considering the issue of the offensiveness to some of the Confederate flag are we now as a nation going to remove everything that is considered offensive?  I find the issue of hunting for sport offensive.  Are we going to remove camo from online retailers and brick and mortar stores?  I think not.  I also find the idea of killing cows for hamburgers offensive.  Is Washington going to order McDonald and other burger establishments to cease and desist selling hamburgers?  Is Walmart going to stop selling beef?  Will we still be able to buy beef stew?  Personally, I do not want the leaders of our country dictating what I can and cannot purchase as an American.  It cuts into our free choices as Americans and consumers.

For retailers, the Confederate flag is a product.  Online if you do not want to see it, click past it  In a bricks and mortar store, move to the other aisle.  There are hundreds of other products.  Just because I do not want to purchase a Confederate flag, does not mean others do not want to do so.  Their right to do so should not be impeded.  It is a personal individual decision.

Finally, I do not want the federal government dictating what I may or may not buy, what I believe and how I believe as long as it is not hurting anyone.  Tolerance is a key that needs to accentuated within our diverse nation.  This reeks of   too much federalism and impinges on individual rights. This is a slippery slope, and our rights should not be waived by the removal of the Confederate flag.  Stand up for what you believe in!

[someguy]

anyone who flies the confederate flag is a traitor

[albrecht]

I agree. We shouldn't destroy momuments and parks, remove statues and memorials, not teach history or show certain movies simply to appease some wild-eyed protestors or to be politically-correct. Using their logic- and some of the more radical types have already mentioned- we should get rid of the US (and many State flags,) tear down brick-by-brick most, if not all, of the D.C. monuments, change our currency, etc. The protestors who deface, pull down, or destroy historical monuments, paintings, statues, etc should be charged with felonies in addition to incurring civil penalties.

Sure, I can understand people not wanting it flown officially from a State capitol but if the voters, or legislators, want it flown than leave it up. Though it shouldn't be above the US flag, as they won. Have a voter referendum about moving it or flying it. Or be more historically accurate and fly the actual, official Confederate flag- and not the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia which likely would confound the protestors since they don't know much about history.

Keep the statues, memorials, etc of history. But you can, as we have done, add new ones to historic places. An example there is still a statue of Cromwell, for example, outside Parliament- and he was a beheader! And they've added a statue of Nelson Mandela in Trafalgar Square- even though he had nothing to do with the UK and arguably was a terrorist (for a time) just to be politically correct. We've added statues, renamed streets, etc for MLK Jr, Cesar Chavez, and many other more modern people. Shall I deface them because Chavez has never done anything for me or my state?

Certainly a person should be able to fly whatever flag this wish on their own property and businesses should be able to sell, or not sell, whatever flag this wish. Ideally, Amazon, Ebay should still allow it but if they as businesses decide not to sell than someone else will. But the government shouldn't ban any flags, books, etc. (Amazon even sells very disturbing, and likely illegal if done in real movies/pictures, porn in book or cartoon form and they think that is fine or, I guess, free speech.)

[someguy]

you should be able to destroy any house or vehicle with a confederate flag on it as an enemy combatant and execute the occupants as traitors

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

i don't support the foreign flag of any nation being flown on state or federal buildings.

[someguy]

[Jackstar]

[Camazotz Automat]

Well, I sure as hell hope we ban the sale of The Dukes of Hazzard DVDs or at the very least go in and digitally remove/change every Confederate battle flag seen, because I'm highly offended and sensitive. I think such editing will make a big difference in racial relations for generations to come.

Generations of whining pussies who possess neither depth nor perspective nor independent thought.

"Words (symbols) hurt."

Vomit.

Then MV should delete alllllllllllllllllllll the POLITICS threads. Let's cut to the chase here and be done with it.

[someguy]

Generations of whining pussies who possess neither depth nor perspective nor independent thought.

you mean like the ones whining they can't buy a flag at wal mart?

[henge0stone]

The debate is over having the flag flown in a federal building, not to make the whole flag illegal. People are blowing this way out of proportion. Honestly I don't think the flag of a now nonexistent rebel government should be flown in a federal building. If you ask me whether or not the flag should be illegal then I would say of course not, but it shouldn't be flown on an official level in a government building.

[WildCard]

Reported. There's more things wrong with this than I can count.


I didn't know I wanted a confederate flag till they said I couldn't have one.


‘Today Is Some of the Darkest 24 Hours in Our Nation’s History’


Dark days, indeed. I has sad.

[Camazotz Automat]

‘Today Is Some of the Darkest 24 Hours in Our Nation’s History’

Dark days, indeed. I has sad.

John Titor tried to warn us.

[21st Century Man]

you should be able to destroy any house or vehicle with a confederate flag on it as an enemy combatant and execute the occupants as traitors

Stop talking like an idiot, Yank.

[21st Century Man]

Reported. There's more things wrong with this than I can count.


I didn't know I wanted a confederate flag till they said I couldn't have one.


‘Today Is Some of the Darkest 24 Hours in Our Nation’s History’


Dark days, indeed. I has sad.

I feel the same way.  I never owned a rebel flag but you know what I bought one along with some bumper stickers when this shit hit the fan.  I also bought a US flag and a Betsy Ross flag as well.  I think I'll wait til next year to fly the Rebel Flag during Confederate Memorial Day.

[someguy]

Stop talking like an idiot, Yank.

someone's mad they lost! suck it up princess

[paladin1991]

i don't support the foreign flag of any nation being flown on state or federal buildings.

Is it a foreign nation if it doesn't exist any more?

[albrecht]

Is it a foreign nation if it doesn't exist any more?

And according to Lincoln they never even really seceded so there was never a national, and hence no a national flag. For those who went to public school:
http://www.nps.gov/liho/learn/historyculture/secessiontableofcontents.htm

And the flag at issue by the wide-eyed protestors war never purported to be the National flag of the Confederacy, of which there were several during the years, but the battle flag for the Army of Northern Virginia.

[WildCard]

I feel the same way.  I never owned a rebel flag but you know what I bought one along with some bumper stickers when this shit hit the fan.  I also bought a US flag and a Betsy Ross flag as well.  I think I'll wait til next year to fly the Rebel Flag during Confederate Memorial Day.

Heh @ "shit hit the fan" details? There's Atlanta and there's the rest of Georgia, which might as well be a different country.


Next to the Rising Sun, it's most bad ass flag ever. I've thought that since I was little. I hope that doesn't make me a nazi, or worse, Japanese.

[WildCard]

For those who went to public school:
http://www.nps.gov/liho/learn/historyculture/secessiontableofcontents.htm

Ahahahaah. Hey! That's not funny!

[Quick Karl]

I believe that people should be able to fly the Confederate Flag if they want to, but I also believe that it should not be flown on any government property - after all, they lost the war.

Nevertheless, the argument that the Confederate Flag represents "southern pride" is horse shit. Everyone on Earth knows that the folks that fly that flag, or that paste it to their pickup truck, do it to express their racism - either against black folks, or against black folks and Jewish folks, or against black folks, Jewish folks, and Yankees.

It NEVER flew over any State House until 1961, and then it was flown as a huge middle finger to desegregation.

Companies and TV programs that portray that flag, do so for profit, and they hire Madison Ave bullshit artists to come up with horseshit that morons and racists can cling to, to defend displaying it.

On the upside, the controversy over the Confederate Flag (or the Battle Flag of The Army of Virginia that has been adopted by racists and segregationists, and the Dukes of Hazard, as their Confederate Flag) is that it shows just how much racism there is on both sides, in America.

It belongs in a museum, not on government property. Individuals can do as they like.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

So all the confederate flags are gone. Does that mean racism is over and everyone will stop bitching?

[Jackstar]

everyone will stop bitching?

[albrecht]

So all the confederate flags are gone. Does that mean racism is over and everyone will stop bitching?

Same with the homosexual stuff, right? They can now have their "marriage"- so will the bitching, parades, and constant Hollywood propaganda stop? Will Obama now focus on real issues that matter to the ENTIRE population, not just the <2/3% of the population, and himself for whatever personal reasons? Doubt it.

[Quick Karl]

I've said it before - I'll say it again; America needs to be divided into two separate countries, by whatever means necessary.

[Zoo]

I am grateful this is happening.. In America you can fly the flag all you want but flying it at the state capital is wrong!!1
 

[Jackstar]

Will Obama now focus on real issues that matter to the ENTIRE population, not just the <2/3% of the population, and himself for whatever personal reasons?

We know who wears the pants in that family.

[albrecht]

We know who wears the pants in that family.

I have to admit I was wondering if any of them would come out, or even pull a Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner surprise, considering all the persistent rumors over the years and his single-mindedness of efforts, ignoring the economy, wars, etc for this homo/gender/BLT issue. And considering even the more wild theories about Michelle, which are hilarious, but I find more hard to believe.
Why not: be proud, be loud! We're Queer, We're Here! and etc.

[Quick Karl]

We know who wears the pants in that family.

[11angeleyes11]

I have been following this all week.  Now, I have read somewhere that it appears that Amazon may be banning books about the Confederate Flag.  This scares me.  Flag banning and now book banning about controversial topics because Washington and the Feds say it is so?

I look upon the removal of the Confederate Flag as  a First Amendment issue, so say it may end up in court?  I did some informal research by contacting the Sourthern Poverty Law Institute for their opinion.  I have not read their formal statement, but I did speak to the public affairs department. They support this.  I also attempted to contact the ACLU in Washington, but no answer since it was Friday afternoon in Washington?  The ACLU office in the state I live in was voice mail answers, so that was as far as I got.  I did not leave a message. 

It may be me, but I sense the political winds are blowing in a new direction.

[albrecht]

I have been following this all week.  Now, I have read somewhere that it appears that Amazon may be banning books about the Confederate Flag.  This scares me.  Flag banning and now book banning about controversial topics because Washington and the Feds say it is so?

I look upon the removal of the Confederate Flag as  a First Amendment issue, so say it may end up in court?  I did some informal research by contacting the Sourthern Poverty Law Institute for their opinion.  I have not read their formal statement, but I did speak to the public affairs department. They support this.  I also attempted to contact the ACLU in Washington, but no answer since it was Friday afternoon in Washington?  The ACLU office in the state I live in was voice mail answers, so that was as far as I got.  I did not leave a message. 

It may be me, but I sense the political winds are blowing in a new direction.

You will recall, that Disney films, and others, that won awards and were beloved are not released, sold, or shown, here anymore but were, and maybe are, in foreign markets. If Uncle Remus is so bad, or many others, why "ok" to sell elsewhere?
But to your ACLU and other stuff:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/06/26/aclu-we-dont-believe-in-religious-liberty-when-it-conflicts-with-our-antidiscrimination-agenda/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/express/wp/2015/06/26/why-im-done-watching-gone-with-the-wind/?wprss=rss_local

and, just for interesting reading. Obviously a place with an ax to grind (both some of the sites below and some of the links.) There are some questions regarding the money-making machine Dees started and how he apparently treats employees (and wives- and worse) is interesting.
http://conservativerenegade.com/2015/03/the-morris-dees-divorce-papers/

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/files/morris_dees_divorce_papers.pdf (open pdf- WARNING)