Today I went to the shooting range - you should too!

[HAL 9000]

No effin' way! I just attended an NRA Beginner Class this weekend at my local CA shooting range. I shot an XD 9mm. Typical beginner issues. I got the first four or five smack in the middle, didn't breath properly, didn't rest and started flinching and anticipating (I don't like loud noises) and the rest of my shots started going astray. Going to buy my very first gun soon. Springfield Armory .40! I need to purchase before Hussein takes power in November.


Communist CA makes you take a test and limits your magazine to 10 rounds.

Man, that totally sucks. Just to be clear, Springfield makes an XD series (older/less capacity) and the XD-M series. When I buy, I'm most likely also going to go the .40 S&W route - plently of stopping power and ammo is cheaper.

The .40 XD standard magazine holds 12+1, while the XD-M series is standard (staggered) with 16+1 for .40. I guess  for CA guns they put s shim in the bottom of the magaine to only hold 10? Don't know. Springfield make some very sweet pistols, and come with great cases a accessories free. Purchase now, and you'll get 3 magazines.

And for those other enthusiasts, I hope this doesn't turn into a PC/Mac - Springfield/Glock war. It's just personal preference and feel - My top three choices would be 1) Springfield XD-M 2) Smith & Wesson M&P (also sweet) 3) Glock

Though I must admit, since I'm "probably" not going to be protecting my food from mobs should Barry gets inserted elected as President again, the 9mm SA is tempting too at 19+1 rounds standard (plus ammo cheaper yet). Almost all standard issue U.S. military sidearms are 9mm (with exceptions for Special Forces and a new military contract for thousands more 1911-style .45 be purchased). The Marine Corps recently signed a $22.5 million contract with Colt for the 1911-.45s as the 9mm just does not have the stopping power of a .45.

</diatribe off>

On My Wish-list:

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[onan]

Man, that totally sucks. Just to be clear, Springfield makes an XD series (older/less capacity) and the XD-M series. When I buy, I'm most likely also going to go the .40 S&W route - plently of stopping power and ammo is cheaper.

The .40 XD standard magazine holds 12+1, while the XD-M series is standard (staggered) with 16+1 for .40. I guess  for CA guns they put s shim in the bottom of the magaine to only hold 10? Don't know. Springfield make some very sweet pistols, and come with great cases a accessories free. Purchase now, and you'll get 3 magazines.

And for those other enthusiasts, I hope this doesn't turn into a PC/Mac - Springfield/Glock war. It's just personal preference and feel - My top three choices would be 1) Springfield XD-M 2) Smith & Wesson M&P (also sweet) 3) Glock

Though I must admit, since I'm "probably" not going to be protecting my food from mobs should Barry gets inserted elected as President again, the 9mm SA is tempting too at 19+1 rounds standard (plus ammo cheaper yet). Almost all standard issue U.S. military sidearms are 9mm (with exceptions for Special Forces and a new military contract for thousands more 1911-style .45 be purchased). The Marine Corps recently signed a $22.5 million contract with Colt for the 1911-.45s as the 9mm just does not have the stopping power of a .45.

</diatribe off>

On My Wish-list:

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I think it is tough to find a "bad" gun anymore. Perhaps a few sloppy manufacturers. I have shot almost every brand out there in the last 2 years and I have not found a bad firing yet. Ok I had one stove pipe on me... a Walther PPK but I was also trying a type of glove anyhoo...

If I had to pick my favorite it would be Sig Sauer.

[HAL 9000]

I think it is tough to find a "bad" gun anymore. Perhaps a few sloppy manufacturers. If I had to pick my favorite it would be Sig Sauer.

You're right, many good weapons out there - I hereby retract my Glock nomination, and insert the  SIG Sauer P226/P228/P229 series - if they're good enough for Jack Bauer, they're good enough for me

P226 are also used by United States Navy SEALs.

[BobGrau]

The UK media is currently having one of it's regular 'should we arm the police?' flaps. What say you gunlovers? Me, I think it's a bad idea, but that's because every cop I've ever known was an asshole.

[stevesh]

I think it is tough to find a "bad" gun anymore.

I agree. I have a Hi-Point 9MM. Made in Ohio, $160 brand-new and guaranteed for life. It's a little crude and kind of slippery (polymer frame), but it's reliable and accurate.

[stevesh]

The UK media is currently having one of it's regular 'should we arm the police?' flaps. What say you gunlovers? Me, I think it's a bad idea, but that's because every cop I've ever known was an asshole.

Hard to imagine an un-armed police force in the 21st century. Most cops I've known have been assholes too, but I have to admit they didn't run around shooting people willy-nilly. They were assholes before they were cops, too.

[MV/Liberace!]

No effin' way! I just attended an NRA Beginner Class this weekend at my local CA shooting range.

wow.  you're still allowed to own a gun in california?  amazing.

[MV/Liberace!]

from 1903:

holy fuck!!

[MV/Liberace!]

I think it is tough to find a "bad" gun anymore. Perhaps a few sloppy manufacturers. I have shot almost every brand out there in the last 2 years and I have not found a bad firing yet. Ok I had one stove pipe on me... a Walther PPK but I was also trying a type of glove anyhoo...

If I had to pick my favorite it would be Sig Sauer.

my first hand gun was a sig p220-st... that being the stainless steel edition.  amazing piece of engineering.  however, i was such an idiot noob that i purchased this gun for conceal carry.  what a tool i was.  it was waaaaaaaaaaaay too heavy.  my glock .45 is much lighter, and even it is on the threshold of being too heavy for that use.

[BobGrau]

Hard to imagine an un-armed police force in the 21st century. Most cops I've known have been assholes too, but I have to admit they didn't run around shooting people willy-nilly. They were assholes before they were cops, too.

It's not so much the running around shooting that worries me, more the fact that guns can be highly effective psychological weapons without even being loaded.

Also, what do you folks think about a land where the police are armed, but the citizens aren't?

[stevesh]

 
Also, what do you folks think about a land where the police are armed, but the citizens aren't?

'Round here, we call that tyranny. An armed man is a citizen - an unarmed man is a subject.

[MV/Liberace!]

'Round here, we call that tyranny. An armed man is a citizen - an unarmed man is a subject.

that's exactly right as i see it. 


i really gut laugh when i listen to europeans mocking the typical american affinity for firearms.  i think to myself, "yeah... you guys have done a great job over the last century of demonstrating the advantages of an unarmed population."  they are fucking idiots who've learned nothing from history.  i believe an armed european population would have resulted in many saved lives in the 20th century.

[BobGrau]

We're by no means completely gunless. I've known many farmers and gamekeepers who are into guns, and have to get a license etc just like in the states. (I'm reminded particularly of my old landlord's farmer son who used to regularly 'clear' his shotgun outside my window - we didn't get on) But the average citizen doesn't have much to do with them - even the various criminal madmen I've associated with tended to prefer machetes and crossbows and so on. Never underestimate the Scottish nutter's love for the samurai sword. Again, weapons are as much about intimidation/deterent as about actually being used.

[PB the Deplorable]

It's not so much the running around shooting that worries me, more the fact that guns can be highly effective psychological weapons without even being loaded...

Exactly correct, we don't usually have to shoot these pukes when they come around looking for trouble or something to steal - just pull out a gun and they get the fuck out and don't come back.  They don't even have to see it, just rack that shotgun and they are out of your house before you can even come find them.

[ziznak]

If I had my way I'd be runnin round daily with one of these bad boys on my back... what a classic.  Of course,  I think it would be cool if everybody was allowed to run around with samurai swords and disputes were settled via duel.

[stevesh]

I've known many farmers and gamekeepers who are into guns, and have to get a license etc just like in the states.

Just for the record, no licenses are required here in the US for rifles or shotguns, the types of guns farmers and gamekeepers would likely be interested in.

[BobGrau]

Just for the record, no licenses are required here in the US for rifles or shotguns, the types of guns farmers and gamekeepers would likely be interested in.

Then you live in a fucking insane country.

[stevesh]

Then you live in a fucking insane country.

There are those here who think so, too. Thankfully, most of us think of it revere it as liberty.

[BobGrau]

There are those here who think so, too. Thankfully, most of us think of it revere it as liberty.

I hope I'm not coming across as offensive here. I support your 'right to choose' (not that my support matters), but guns need to be kept track of and gun owners need to be sensibly trained. I have the same opinion about dogs.

[stevesh]

I hope I'm not coming across as offensive here.

Not at all. We all understand that the US has some attitudes toward freedom that aren't shared by a lot of the rest of the world. Different strokes for different folks.

[PB the Deplorable]

I hope I'm not coming across as offensive here. I support your 'right to choose' (not that my support matters), but guns need to be kept track of and gun owners need to be sensibly trained. I have the same opinion about dogs.

No, not at all, just a friendly exchange of ideas. 

We look at it as we are not subjects of the govt, they work for us.  We have the right to defend ourselves and are very suspicious regarding motives of 'the government' - that is straight from the Founders.

I'm all for training, maye we should offer it as a class in school similar to Drivers Ed, or get the training off campus privately but get class credits for it.  Self defense and martial arts too.  I think any law abiding citizen should be able to buy guns and carry them around openly or concealed.  Businesses would also have the right to say a person can't bring them inside.

All licenses do is tell the govt who has guns and where they are.  I might be missing something, but of what possible use is that information, other than to one day come collect all of them?

[MV/Liberace!]

I hope I'm not coming across as offensive here. I support your 'right to choose' (not that my support matters), but guns need to be kept track of and gun owners need to be sensibly trained. I have the same opinion about dogs.

kept track of by whom?  that's where the problems begin, as i see it.  i think an armed population should be armed primarily for the purpose of overthrowing a tyrannical government.  yeah, some will call me a nutbag survivalist who should move to montana... but i consider it an observation of history.

[onan]

All licenses do is tell the govt who has guns and where they are.  I might be missing something, but of what possible use is that information, other than to one day come collect all of them?

This is a tough one for me. Like many I too find it difficult to trust the bureaucrats when it comes to gun licensing. I find it strange to license hand guns but not long guns. I do think record keeping makes it easier to recover a stolen weapon... hypothetically. I also see the number of gun deaths each year and think it is a concern to the public. I also think that the constitution is way too frikken vague in what a regulated militia is.

As to whether the government would attempt to take our guns... well anything is possible. But I do think that notion is more delusional than based in reality. the NRA has done a very good job keeping that very notion well placed in most of our faces.

Our constitution does give citizens the right to have guns. I think there is a real grey area there. I grew up around guns and when I was 9, I was hunting by myself. So I have concerns... but I have never lost any sleep worrying about our government taking our guns.

[Juan]

According to a Coast guest some months ago, registration is now unneeded.  The Global Elite have a satellite or planes or UFOs or something flying over our houses and doing something similar to a CAT scan - taking photos showing minute slices of our homes.  The device will reveal guns and other weapons, so we have no hope of hiding them.

It has to be true, it was on Coast.

[PB the Deplorable]

... but I have never lost any sleep worrying about our government taking our guns.

No, not yet.  It would be a huge undertaking and I don't think it would go well at all.

Maybe if they kept a ballistics record on each gun so they would know what gun was fired in a given crime.  But they don't even seem to use all the spy cameras they have now to solve crimes, so I don't see them using any ballistics records they would conceivably collect...

[Eddie Coyle]

I hope I'm not coming across as offensive here. I support your 'right to choose' (not that my support matters), but guns need to be kept track of and gun owners need to be sensibly trained. I have the same opinion about dogs.

             Scotland had 48 homicides by firearm between 2000-2009.

           What's wrong with you socialist fags? 48 dead by firearm is a slow month in Chicago. America, fuck yeah!

[BobGrau]

             Scotland had 48 homicides by firearm between 2000-2009.

           What's wrong with you socialist fags? 48 dead by firearm is a slow month in Chicago. America, fuck yeah!

Scotland has approximately twice the population of Chicago.

In our Land That Time Forgot, cholesterol moves faster than bullets.

[Eddie Coyle]

Scotland has approximately twice the population of Chicago.

Scotland's "rising" murder rate of nearly 100 last year, would be welcomed as a "miracle" in most urban cities in America. Cities that are 1/20 the size of Scotland's population.

           As someone who resides in an urban area, I wish the 2nd Amendment would be repealed yesterday. Not a popular view, but that's my feeling.

          The accessibility of handguns in most urban areas is horrifying. If people really knew how bad it was...

[HAL 9000]

Scotland has approximately twice the population of Chicago. In our Land That Time Forgot, cholesterol moves faster than bullets.

When will the Scots move forward into the 21st century where we have weapons that are far more efficient?
Damned hoolligans!

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I copied this from a BBC article (Dec. 2011), emphasis added by me (mostly sarcasm):

Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill said: "Every single life lost is one too many and every murder is a horrific tragedy for families, loved ones and for communities. Although the murder rate is down by 30% since 2004/05, last year saw a rise from 2009/10."

"The statistics speak for themselves - most murders are carried out indoors, under the influence of alcohol or drugs, by someone known to the victim. These senseless acts are usually carried out by men, under the influence of cheap booze and drugs."

Mr MacAskill said the Scottish government was tackling the crime statistics by putting extra officers into communities, by investing £155m in tackling alcohol misuse and by introducing its alcohol minimum pricing bill.

"We will not shirk from taking tough action on alcohol abuse and we cannot allow this mindless violence, which has devastating consequences for families and communities across Scotland, to continue," he said.

He added: "Today's figures also show that the vast majority of killings involving knives are carried out indoors by perpetrators under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and not on our streets."

"Let me be crystal clear - tackling knife crime is an absolute priority for this government and Scotland's prosecutors and courts have my backing in using the full force of the law to punish anyone who carries or uses a knife." (Uh-oh, beware Julia Child, Jacques Pépin, or Emeril Lagasse )

Responding to the statistical report, Labour's James Kelly said it was "deeply concerning" that knife deaths had increased by 74% "in the last year alone."

He added: "They now account for a greater proportion of killings in Scotland than at any point in the last decade.

"The SNP is quick to blame drink and drugs, which of course we must tackle, but that does not explain why knives, overwhelmingly, continue to be Scotland's weapon of choice.

"These statistics underline the need for the SNP government to place a renewed focus on tackling violent crime, especially knife crime, reducing reoffending and placing victims at the heart of the justice system again."

The Scottish Conservative's justice spokesman David McLetchie said it was time for a co-ordinated crackdown on knife crime.

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[ziznak]

kept track of by whom?  that's where the problems begin, as i see it.  i think an armed population should be armed primarily for the purpose of overthrowing a tyrannical government.  yeah, some will call me a nutbag survivalist who should move to montana... but i consider it an observation of history.

Didn't the right to bear arms originally stand on this fact?  Back in the good ol days of founding fathers, slave rape, and hemp everything the gubbament was held in check by the fact that the population was armed and could take the power back if needed.

I just can't wait to take my 12 gauge to Washington....
(fuck now im on a list!) 

BEST KNIFE EVER (I've had 4 of this model over the last 15 years)
http://www.crkt.com/6603N?srch_pid=165&child=165&search_id=139290

I also have a few other knives from CRKT they're my fav knife manufacturer...
I wear this one sideways on my belt if I'm going out late at night... it's originally designed as a boot knife
http://www.crkt.com/AG-Russell-Sting-One-piece-Hot-Forged-Double-Razor-Sharp-Edge?&search_id=139294 very illegal to carry fixed blade daggers though