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President Donald J. Trump

Started by The General, February 11, 2011, 01:33:34 AM

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 09:33:06 AM
Funny because both Mattis and Pompeo say the arrangement works...


Hmm, Compare and contrast... What does the west buy from NK? Roughly? How will sanctions materially affect the west? Then compare with Iran.. And their geographical location..

Comparing Iran with NK is chalk and cheese.

How exactly will gas and diesel prices materially affect the average North Korean; A population so starved that many are reduced to eating grass and bark? When you have nothing, taking more away doesn't exactly hurt the poor. Iran on the other hand are the gate keepers to the Straits of Hormuz. How do you think that might play out if things got loud in that area?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5olwWtDHEHw

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Metron2267 on May 10, 2018, 09:36:20 AM
No, Trump exited this because it was toothless scam that enriched the Mullas and did virtually nothing to impede Iran's nuclear threat. 

And as with most of Obama's "legacy" the aim was to weaken the USA in almost all ways possible.

Obama was America's Trojan horse and you stuttering Limey simpletons are culturally and morally in no position to do anything more than play the sycophant to his nakedly treasonous policies. Thank the Creator that you haven't the sway to do more here than mutter moronically on this board and spread your pallid disinformation.

Oil companies and coal mine owners have not been given any legal accommodation to "pollute with impunity", what a load of disinformation again.

As for the US's "oil use" from Iran, try some facts:

[url]https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTTIM_NUS-NIR_2&f=A/url]

U.S. Imports from Iran of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels per Day)
Decade   Year-0   Year-1   Year-2   Year-3   Year-4   Year-5   Year-6   Year-7   Year-8   Year-9
  1970's            223   469   280   298   535   555   304
  1980's   9   0   35   48   10   27   19   98   0   0
  1990's   0   32   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
  2000's   0   0                        

Wow.

Just freaking wow.


I said Iraq in an earlier post (Re: Gulf War 2, but can include GW1 too)... ::)   It wasn't the extraction it was the companies involved in doing it.. But the Iran issue isn't the oil per se going to the USA; (Because guess what, it isn't ALL about murica) It's the countries that do use Iranian oil in SE Asia, who have to import oil from the ME. If their costs go up, then they have to pass it on to the consumer, and yep, that will include the USA. And it will be more so if Iran decides to blockade the Straits of Hormuz. You think the average US citizen will be up for more body bags coming back from the ME? I don't.


As for the rest, you're wrong on pretty much all of it. It's good to see you back though K of K..  ;D ;D



Metron2267

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 09:33:06 AM
Funny because both Mattis and Pompeo say the arrangement works...


Hmm, Compare and contrast... What does the west buy from NK? Roughly? How will sanctions materially affect the west? Then compare with Iran.. And their geographical location..

Comparing Iran with NK is chalk and cheese.

How exactly will gas and diesel prices materially affect the average North Korean; A population so starved that many are reduced to eating grass and bark? When you have nothing, taking more away doesn't exactly hurt the poor. Iran on the other hand are the gate keepers to the Straits of Hormuz. How do you think that might play out if things got loud in that area?

You seem to have very little clue as to any of the things you're ranting about here:

[img]http://static.businessinsider.com/image/59bff98e38d20d2b008b77b9-750.jpg/img]

Allow me to enhance your quest for reality.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Metron2267 on May 10, 2018, 09:55:11 AM
You seem to have very little clue as to any of the things you're ranting about here:

[img]http://static.businessinsider.com/image/59bff98e38d20d2b008b77b9-750.jpg/img]

Allow me to enhance your quest for reality.


Not ranting. Pointing out the vast difference between Iran and NK.  ;D

Metron2267

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 09:40:37 AM

I said Iraq in an earlier post (Re: Gulf War 2, but can include GW1 too)... ::)
Quote

I'm not replying to "an earlier post" ergo you'll have to take your comeuppance on the one I've replied to.

QuoteIt wasn't the extraction it was the companies involved in doing it..
Quote

What is that supposed to mean?

QuoteBut the Iran issue isn't the oil per se going to the USA; (Because guess what, it isn't ALL about murica)
Quote

And yet you made it so, apparently unaware we haven't taken a drop from Iran since the 1970s!

QuoteIt's the countries that do use Iranian oil in SE Asia, who have to import oil from the ME. If their costs go up, then they have to pass it on to the consumer, and yep, that will include the USA. And it will be more so if Iran decides to blockade the Straits of Hormuz. You think the average US citizen will be up for more body bags coming back from the ME? I don't.
Quote

Oh I get it, so do nothing because an unstable regime has a big threat stick to use on others and indirectly on us. That cover it for you then?

And when your pumps go dry consider who you've historically gone running to for military assistance.

You're right, we might even (at long last)  take a pass on being Team 'Murica, global cop.

Wouldn't that be a fate for Jupiter, Murky and the EU to natter over


QuoteAs for the rest, you're wrong on pretty much all of it.
Quote

No, provably I am not.

QuoteIt's good to see you back though K of K..  ;D ;D

How can I be "back" when this is my initial effort here?

???

I know you lot nymshift a bit, but this is a new account.

Cheers.

Metron2267

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 09:57:29 AM

Not ranting. Pointing out the vast difference between Iran and NK.  ;D

That's called obfuscating as we both know that sanctions can and have worked to varying extents all of which are modified of course by disparate economies, rulers, and military capabilities.

Iran's in all cases are more advanced.

You simply do not wish to admit that sanctions can be effective over a broad spectrum of geopolitical parameters.


Metron2267

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 09, 2018, 09:09:37 PM

It wasn't an American deal with Iran though...It was the UN security council, plus the EH. The EU have a far bigger vested interest in Iran not having nuclear weapons than the USA. But now, its in flux. The rest of the SC and the EU will likely honour it if they can, but the alleged sanctions that Trump is going to try and impose will simply provoke Iran to say fuck you.
Quote

They were doing that anyway, no sense in enabling their shenanigans further.

QuoteThey have a population of about 80 million, and quite highly educated at that.
Quote

How does their educational level bear on any of this?

QuoteThe only countries that will suffer are ones that the USA need to be on their side; Trump doesn't understand that, nor does he care.
Quote

Ah, so now you're able to read his mind, some trick that!

QuoteI wonder what the appetite would be for US military action on Iran? I think very low, especially as Trump said that the wars that went before were wrong.

Oh I certainly hope that's still the case, let the EU sort any Iranian mischief on their own please!

Kidnostad3

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 09, 2018, 09:09:37 PM

It wasn't an American deal with Iran though...It was the UN security council, plus the EH. The EU have a far bigger vested interest in Iran not having nuclear weapons than the USA. But now, its in flux. The rest of the SC and the EU will likely honour it if they can, but the alleged sanctions that Trump is going to try and impose will simply provoke Iran to say fuck you. They have a population of about 80 million, and quite highly educated at that. The only countries that will suffer are ones that the USA need to be on their side; Trump doesn't understand that, nor does he care. I wonder what the appetite would be for US military action on Iran? I think very low, especially as Trump said that the wars that went before were wrong.

Bingo!  It was an Obama deal with Iran and other countries who couldn’t care less about U.S. interests or security and the American people had nothing to do with it.  It was a cheap hustle worthy of the cheap hustlers who engineered it and then bragged about their misrepresentations to, and manipulation of, the MSM and the people.  You know, the same sort of con job they used to foist the ACÁ on the nation.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Metron2267 on May 10, 2018, 10:15:08 AM
That's called obfuscating


No, obfuscation would be to say something such as "Sanctions work irrespective of the individual conditions, but I won't tell you what they are"

Quote
as we both know that sanctions can and have worked to varying extents all of which are modified of course by disparate economies, rulers, and military capabilities.

They work on a case by case basis depending on what the intended outcome is. Russia had sanctions put on them over their invasion of Ukraine. Flynn went and told Putin that they would be lifted (BEFORE Flynn was even appointed into government, therefore he was basically going against a government imposed order, that also excluded US company dealings with Russian banks).. There have been sanctions over many years against different countries for different reasons, but usually the country being sanctioned will hurt (and them alone) because of them. Iran is in a strategic location to make sure their hurt is spread around a little. NK can't economically hurt the west or its allies. And the only thing Russia exports is laundered money, bauxite and oil that it needs the proceeds from to keep the oligarchs happy. The very worst thing would be they shut off access to their rockets for the ISS, but that would be major shit because NASA pays well for that.

Quote
Iran's in all cases are more advanced.

You simply do not wish to admit that sanctions can be effective over a broad spectrum of geopolitical parameters.

As above.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Kidnostad3 on May 10, 2018, 10:26:11 AM
Bingo!  It was an Obama deal with Iran and other countries who couldn’t care less about U.S. interests or security and the American people had nothing to do with it.  It was a cheap hustle worthy of the cheap hustlers who engineered it and then bragged about their misrepresentations to, and manipulation of, the MSM and the people.  You know, the same sort of con job they used to foist the ACÁ on the nation.


You want the American people to hold a referendum on everything the POTUS implements? And please spare the croc tears about 'American interests' not being observed. It wasn't in the UK's, Germany's, Dutch, Hungarian, Canadian, New Zealand, Bulgarian, Portuguese, Spanish and several more countries' interest to have military personal and infrastructure deployed for G W Bush's false reason invasion on Iraq and Afghanistan.. All those countries had losses and terrible injuries. Or do you think they made up the funerals of the fallen?

Fuck your 'American Interests' bollox. Who was the first country to tell Bush that he could use whatever the UK could provide? And they did.  If the UK (And others) is supporting the Iran nuclear deal it's because they consider it to be in everyone's best interest.

starrmtn001

Well, well, well.  Look what is coming back for its last season.  I'll probably get verbal flack for this, but I'm glad.  HOC is a superbly written series and deserves a final season despite the actions of one of its actors.

https://youtu.be/oN-0mpl6Juo

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 10:39:53 AM

You want the American people to hold a referendum on everything the POTUS implements? And please spare the croc tears about 'American interests' not being observed. It wasn't in the UK's, Germany's, Dutch, Hungarian, Canadian, New Zealand, Bulgarian, Portuguese, Spanish and several more countries' interest to have military personal and infrastructure deployed for G W Bush's false reason invasion on Iraq and Afghanistan.. All those countries had losses and terrible injuries. Or do you think they made up the funerals of the fallen?

Fuck your 'American Interests' bollox. Who was the first country to tell Bush that he could use whatever the UK could provide? And they did.  If the UK (And others) is supporting the Iran nuclear deal it's because they consider it to be in everyone's best interest.

Just as Chamberlain thought he was doing the right thing for "peace in our time."  Appeasement doesn't work as we found out in 1939.  The Iran deal wasn't even a proper treaty and didn't go through the proper channels.  Obama and his cronies were usurping power he didn't have.  Case closed.  It's over.  Screw the mullahs.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: 21st Century Man on May 10, 2018, 10:50:00 AM
Just as Chamberlain thought he was doing the right thing for "peace in our time."  Appeasement doesn't work as we found out in 1939.  The Iran deal wasn't even a proper treaty and didn't go through the proper channels.  Obama and his cronies were usurping power he didn't have.  Case closed.  It's over.  Screw the mullahs.

Then don't complain, moan or otherwise bitch about the consequences. None about gas prices, none about the cost of stuff in the shops. None about soldier deployments if they're proposed, and none about the deaths of same if it happens.

And comparing now with 1939 is ridiculous. In 1939 we didn't have spy planes and spy satellites. We didn't have the ability to turn the world to glass.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 10:56:08 AM
Then don't complain, moan or otherwise bitch about the consequences. None about gas prices, none about the cost of stuff in the shops. None about soldier deployments if they're proposed, and none about the deaths of same if it happens.

And comparing now with 1939 is ridiculous. In 1939 we didn't have spy planes and spy satellites. We didn't have the ability to turn the world to glass.

So you would have brought out the white flag if Hitler had nuclear weapons? The deal was not stopping Iran from developing nuclear weapons.  It had few checks and again was not put into place properly.  Cowering in a corner and appeasing is no way to conduct diplomacy.  See North Korea. 

You may not remember the Iranian Hostage Crisis in 1979/1980 as you were in Britain but to us over here it was a big deal and we have long memories.

Metron2267

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 10:31:44 AM

No, obfuscation would be to say something such as "Sanctions work irrespective of the individual conditions, but I won't tell you what they are"
Quote

But I did tell you what they are in NK's instance and how they have been implemented and by whom and how they obviously have worked.

QuoteThey work on a case by case basis depending on what the intended outcome is. Russia had sanctions put on them over their invasion of Ukraine. Flynn went and told Putin that they would be lifted (BEFORE Flynn was even appointed into government, therefore he was basically going against a government imposed order, that also excluded US company dealings with Russian banks).. There have been sanctions over many years against different countries for different reasons, but usually the country being sanctioned will hurt (and them alone) because of them.
Quote

You just contradicted yourself by claiming they usually hurt only the sanctioned nation and then subsequently warning of all the subsidiary damage we and the EU will suffer if Iran is more sanctioned.

One side of the street, please!

QuoteIran is in a strategic location to make sure their hurt is spread around a little. NK can't economically hurt the west or its allies.
Quote

NK can do some limited economic damage to China and major military hurt to Japan, and like it or not they both are on our economic radar.

Xi knew and responded to a regional threat as if he is our ally.

Smart man.


QuoteAnd the only thing Russia exports is laundered money, bauxite and oil that it needs the proceeds from to keep the oligarchs happy.
Quote

There you go again demonstrating your ignorance.

[url]http://www.worldstopexports.com/russias-top-10-exports//url]

At the more granular four-digit Harmonized Tariff System code level, the most valuable Russian export product is crude oil followed by refined petroleum oils.
Mineral fuels including oil: US$173.3 billion (48.5% of total exports)
Iron, steel: $18.8 billion (5.3%)
Gems, precious metals: $11 billion (3.1%)
Machinery including computers: $8.5 billion (2.4%)
Wood: $7.9 billion (2.2%)
Cereals: $7.5 billion (2.1%)
Fertilizers: $7.2 billion (2%)
Aluminum: $6.7 billion (1.9%)
Copper: $4.7 billion (1.3%)
Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (1.2%)
Russia’s top 10 exports accounted for 70% of the overall value of its global shipments.
Copper was the fastest-growing among the top 10 export categories, up 42.2% from 2016 to 2017.
In second place for improving export sales was Russian cereals which was up 34.3%, led by higher international sales of wheat, barley and corn.
Close behind, Russia’s shipments of iron and steel posted the third-fastest gain in value up 32.9%.
Up 6.7%, electrical machinery and equipment posted the smallest increase among Russia’s top 10 export categories.

QuoteThe very worst thing would be they shut off access to their rockets for the ISS, but that would be major shit because NASA pays well for that.
Quote

What?

NASA is a space agency.

QuoteAs above.
Quote

Your lunacy, yes.

Do you think readers here generally see you as a consistent disinformation resource?

I know I do. :o

Metron2267

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 10:39:53 AM

Fuck your 'American Interests' bollox.

Fuck your Unfree Kingdom naysaying and personal Trump vendetta.

You're useless.

Metron2267

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 10:56:08 AM
Then don't complain, moan or otherwise bitch about the consequences. None about gas prices, none about the cost of stuff in the shops. None about soldier deployments if they're proposed, and none about the deaths of same if it happens.

And comparing now with 1939 is ridiculous. In 1939 we didn't have spy planes and spy satellites. We didn't have the ability to turn the world to glass.

Indeed, all you appeasers did was enable the genocide of millions of Jews.

As for turning the world to glass - rhetorical hyperbole.That kind of petty shoe-thumping is such a Cold War relic.

Grow up man.

Metron2267

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 10:56:08 AM
Then don't complain, moan or otherwise bitch about the consequences. None about gas prices, none about the cost of stuff in the shops. None about soldier deployments if they're proposed, and none about the deaths of same if it happens.

Sod that.

We'll do as we please and it will be a terrible trial for poor widdle you to endure, truly.

Sorry cupcake, my vote is no icing for you today.

starrmtn001

Quote from: Metron2267 on May 10, 2018, 11:17:40 AM
Sod that.

We'll do as we please and it will be a terrible trial for poor widdle you to endure, truly.

Sorry cupcake, my vote is no icing for you today.

Metron The Pud Slayer!  Welcome to the jungle, sir.  I like the cut of your blade. ;) ;D

Metron2267

Thanks for your kind welcome, rank disinformation is generally worth counteracting.

Trump isn't someone I'd have over for dinner, but he is effective at playing his game and thus far the results have been sufficient to generate a passing grade from me.

And that's all anyone can really hope for where the brer patch of politics is concerned anyway.

We survived the Trojan Horse, my wager is we'll mostly thrive with Trump at helm.

8)

Kidnostad3

Something about Stormey Daniels’ lawyer stinks to high heavan!


“...Daniels's previous lawyer advised her to stick to her agreements. In contrast, Avenatti OK'd her violating with impunity her nondisclosure agreement on “60 Minutes” despite a binding arbitration judgment against her. She has acknowledged on Twitter that she is not paying for her lawyer. So who is? And did he indemnify her against all multimillion-dollar penalties?...”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwi7t-Gx1fvaAhWSq1MKHcvLBuYQqOcBCAwwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fthehill.com%2Fopinion%2Fjudiciary%2F387088-who-is-paying-michael-avenatti&usg=AOvVaw3ogyGXowfDvF6vxyZe01lg


   


Up All Night

Quote from: StarrMountain on May 10, 2018, 10:46:34 AM
Well, well, well.  Look what is coming back for its last season.  I'll probably get verbal flack for this, but I'm glad.  HOC is a superbly written series and deserves a final season despite the actions of one of its actors.

https://youtu.be/oN-0mpl6Juo

When I see Robin Wright, I see Blade Runner 2049's Lt. Joshi:

"The BellGab Universe is built on a wall that separates Trump Supporters from Trump Haters. Tell either side there's no wall, you've bought a war. Or a slaughter."

Jackstar

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on May 10, 2018, 10:56:08 AM
We didn't have the ability to turn the world to glass.

Right, right--but weather control and anti-gravity, oh, that's just crazy-talk.


Quote from: Metron2267 on May 10, 2018, 11:13:19 AM
You're useless.

Still--superior to a Clinton presidency.

albrecht

Quote from: 21st Century Man on May 10, 2018, 10:50:00 AM
Just as Chamberlain thought he was doing the right thing for "peace in our time."  Appeasement doesn't work as we found out in 1939.  The Iran deal wasn't even a proper treaty and didn't go through the proper channels.  Obama and his cronies were usurping power he didn't have.  Case closed.  It's over.  Screw the mullahs.
"We do not think this guarantee will be binding"
-Lord Halifax

""Naturally, our guarantee does not give any help to Poland. It can be said that it was cruel to Poland, even cynical"
- UK Permanent Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs, Sir Alexander Montagu George Cadogan, OM GCMG KCB

Metron2267

Quote from: Jackstar on May 10, 2018, 02:39:53 PM
Right, right--but weather control and anti-gravity, oh, that's just crazy-talk.


Still--superior to a Clinton presidency.

By leaps and bounds, yes!

It's not difficult to imagine her getting us into a shooting war with Putin, and with this suddenly war-mongering, Deep state demo-con infestation egging her on that would have been a bridge too far, perhaps even for Bolton...

The graft, the hacking, the servile media lap dogging, it really would have been a no checks and balances state.

Frightening she is, on all levels and at all times.

I mean when a blowhard like Trump sells himself as the non-interventionist alternative and can actually make folks believe it I think that says it all.

The Hildabeast is some barely contained monster from the id, and we wouldn't have had any hope of the 3 letter agencies buffering us from something that looks very much like mass criminal insanity at all levels of the government and society.

Biden was the answer for the Dems but their ardor to destroy all things not Hillary made him even less of a possibility than Bernie, whom the DNC swiftly seal-clubbed to a bloody pulp.

No matter, for all our own national kookiness we're not banning pen knives and muriatic acid...yet... :-\

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