Author Topic: The Spaceflight Thread  (Read 2441 times)

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Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2018, 03:11:51 PM »
That is just magic taken to a whole different level. Take the same fuel used in a kerosene lamp in the 19th century and send a rocket to Mars. Try that with solar or wind power!

I love the self landing boosters but wouldn’t it be more efficient to just use parachutes? All that extra fuel for the landing etc...

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2018, 03:24:33 PM »
I love the self landing boosters but wouldn’t it be more efficient to just use parachutes? All that extra fuel for the landing etc...

The shuttle SRBs used parachutes but then they had to have a specially designed recovery ship that would be stationed downrange somewhere near where the boosters would fall based on a ballistic trajectory. They would he subject to bad weather and unpredictable wave heights which could damage the assembly. In addition you had to recondition everything from being immersed in saltwater for hours.

The kerosene/lox rocket engines are much more complex with orders of magnitude more movingparts than the steerable nozzles of a solid rocket motor.

We had several SRB segments that were unuseable due to impact damage when parachutes failed or waves were way too high. 

If you want to have them parachute over land, then you need to get them back to Florida. Once you have fuel, rockets and stuff to do that, it is not that much more to land it. Plus, I don’t think the FAA is going to allow yu to freefall under a parachute over the Florida coast, so you would need a steerable parafoil.  NASA experimented with those for the ACRV but to my knowledge it hasn’t been done.

A rocket is pretty much an aluminum can with engines on one end. There was an ICBM accident where the skin was as punctured by dropping a wrench in the silo. They would not be able to take a landing on a hard surface unless it was extremely controlled to a soft touchdown with no dragging.

http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=254

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #62 on: February 06, 2018, 03:36:18 PM »
I agree Gravity, and remember those SRB walls are 1/2 inch thick high grade steel. Each segment formed from a single ingot and uses zero welds.

And that ICBM incident with the falling wrench that bounced off the side of the fueled missile as it fell, punctured a hole causing a fuel leak.  Unfortunately the fuel wasn't Kerosene but was Aerozine 50, a mix of Hydrazine and UDMH(Unsymmetrical Dimethylhydrazine sp???) the rockets Oxidizer called Nitrogen Tetroxide (also nasty shit) ignite spontaneously when they come into contact with each other.  Instead of mixing within the combustion chamber, the stuff went off inside the silo  It eventually exploded and blew the 740 ton missile silo door out of the way, ejected the 2nd stage of the missile(which then exploded) and the 9 megaton warhead up out of the silo causing it to land 100 feet from the front gate of the launch complex(who knows just how far the actual front gate is from the actual silo?? but I will say that the Launch Complex is contained within about 400 acres and the military isn't going to put the missile silo right next to the front gate). Initial personnel couldn't locate the warhead, therefore the event was considered a "Broken Arrow". A broken arrow a codename is when a United States nuclear weapon goes missing.
The fuel/oxidizer tanks on these(and many others) are so thin that unless they are kept pressurized with either fuel/oxidizer or if inert-pressurized with Nitrogen, these thin skinned tanks would collapse under it own weight.  The product WD-40 was invented specifically to keep tanks of these and similar missiles from corroding. (Water Displacement-formulation forty).


Titan-2 missile in its missile silo.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Damascus_Titan_missile_explosion

Nice little video explaining what happened.

Space X mission is now T + 50 minutes, or a Mission Elapsed Time (MET) of 50 minutes(as of 4:35EST).

peace
Hog

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2018, 03:44:07 PM »
Wasn't landing in salt water basically terrible for the SRB's?

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2018, 03:52:03 PM »
Wasn't landing in salt water basically terrible for the SRB's?

Pretty much. Here is an overview

https://oce.jpl.nasa.gov/practices/ops01.pdf

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #65 on: February 06, 2018, 03:56:39 PM »
Live camera feed from the Tesla

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBr2kKAHN6M&feature=youtu.be

The earth reflected in the paint is too damn cool

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2018, 04:03:49 PM »
So when does the center booster land on the barge?  I'd like to see that live.  I know they've got a camera aimed at the barge because they showed it for several seconds after the two boosters landed.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2018, 04:05:11 PM »
So when does the center booster land on the barge?  I'd like to see that live.  I know they've got a camera aimed at the barge because they showed it for several seconds after the two boosters landed.

It should have landed shortly after the other two boosters. Still no news on the SpaceX twitter.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2018, 04:05:46 PM »
SPACE

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2018, 04:07:51 PM »
So when does the center booster land on the barge?  I'd like to see that live.  I know they've got a camera aimed at the barge because they showed it for several seconds after the two boosters landed.
It would land shortly after the other outboard rockets landed, I'm hearing that it missed the target.

Starman driving his Tesla on-orbit.


peace
Hog

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2018, 04:08:08 PM »
So when does the center booster land on the barge?  I'd like to see that live.  I know they've got a camera aimed at the barge because they showed it for several seconds after the two boosters landed.

Musk keeps a tight control on his bad news. I am sure it failed to land successfully. I wish I was in some of their mishap reviews after these barge failures to try and understand why it seems to be a lot easier to successfully touchdown on land.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2018, 04:16:35 PM »
In an unrelated note - I was driving through Dickinson, TX and noticed a large building under construction. I looked it up by address and learned it is going to be a new Junior High School, specializing in STEM curriculum and they have chosen a name. Eugene Kranz Junior High.

Eugene Kranz is best remembered by the role in Apollo 13 in Mission Control. The LeadFlight Director with thevest that said “Failure is not an option”. Gene never actually said those words but he worked with that attitude. He was the Director of the Mission Operations Directorate( MOD) when I started working down here. Two of his daughters worked with me at one time. I am glad to see him honored in this manner.


Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #72 on: February 06, 2018, 04:19:15 PM »
Musk keeps a tight control on his bad news. I am sure it failed to land successfully. I wish I was in some of their mishap reviews after these barge failures to try and understand why it seems to be a lot easier to successfully touchdown on land.

Come to think of it, I did see a quick burst of fuel fumes right after that quick view of the barge.  Perhaps it exploded off target and they cut away to show two Space X talking heads who were still all giddy from the launch?

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #73 on: February 06, 2018, 04:22:54 PM »
Come to think of it, I did see a quick burst of fuel fumes right after that quick view of the barge.  Perhaps it exploded off target and they cut away to show two Space X talking heads who were still all giddy from the launch?

I know they have had some successful landings on the barge, but I think there are more failures than successes. Early failures were due to running out of fuel at the last second. Not sure what other mishaps they have had.

They try and land with minimal fuel to reduce the landing weight but I guess depending on winds, you could cut it too close.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2018, 04:39:12 PM »
Yes, they definetly cut away just before the center rocket landed.  If you fast forward to 46:46 on this video, you will see what I saw.



Edit:  Actually you can hear those two kids talking about the signal being lost, due perhaps to vibration.  That's what I get for listening to Shepard Smith. 

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #75 on: February 06, 2018, 04:47:26 PM »
In an unrelated note - I was driving through Dickinson, TX and noticed a large building under construction. I looked it up by address and learned it is going to be a new Junior High School, specializing in STEM curriculum and they have chosen a name. Eugene Kranz Junior High.

Eugene Kranz is best remembered by the role in Apollo 13 in Mission Control. The LeadFlight Director with thevest that said “Failure is not an option”. Gene never actually said those words but he worked with that attitude. He was the Director of the Mission Operations Directorate( MOD) when I started working down here. Two of his daughters worked with me at one time. I am glad to see him honored in this manner.


Nice,

Famous words from Krantz after receiving the "Houston we have a problem" call from the crew of Apollo 13.

           "Let's work the problem people, let's not make it worse by guessing."

 


3:21 of this video has the "OK Houston we've had a problem here."





peace
Hog

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #76 on: February 06, 2018, 05:35:57 PM »
In an unrelated note - I was driving through Dickinson, TX and noticed a large building under construction. I looked it up by address and learned it is going to be a new Junior High School, specializing in STEM curriculum and they have chosen a name. Eugene Kranz Junior High.

Eugene Kranz is best remembered by the role in Apollo 13 in Mission Control. The LeadFlight Director with thevest that said “Failure is not an option”. Gene never actually said those words but he worked with that attitude. He was the Director of the Mission Operations Directorate( MOD) when I started working down here. Two of his daughters worked with me at one time. I am glad to see him honored in this manner.


That's cool. The nightly news didn't mention the barge landing so I'm guessing it didn't make it. They showed the launch and the landing of the 2 engines on ground. Amazing stuff. And then the whole Starman and car which is something I never would've imagined someone ever doing.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #77 on: February 06, 2018, 05:43:36 PM »
That's cool. The nightly news didn't mention the barge landing so I'm guessing it didn't make it. They showed the launch and the landing of the 2 engines on ground. Amazing stuff. And then the whole Starman and car which is something I never would've imagined someone ever doing.

I thought I heard them say it was heading to mars. Why? It looks cool and I love the movie Heavy Metal but this just seems silly.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #78 on: February 06, 2018, 06:35:05 PM »
Another Starman pic.


Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2018, 07:07:38 PM »
When they perform an inquiry on the center stage its computer will report back:

The hatch just blew...
The hatch just blew...
The hatch just blew...
Abort, retry, fail...

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2018, 06:26:33 AM »
Pretty damn cool.  The two side boosters land simultaneously.



"Two came back to touchdown zones on the Florida coast just south of Kennedy. Their landing legs made contact with the ground virtually at the same time.

"That was epic," said Mr Musk. "That's probably the most exciting thing I've ever seen, literally."

The third booster was due to settle on a drone ship stationed several hundred kilometres out at sea. Unfortunately, it was unable to slow its descent by re-igniting sufficient engines, missed the target vessel and was destroyed as it hit the water at some 500km/h.

By then, the upper-stage of the Falcon Heavy, with its Tesla cargo, was heading on a trajectory that would hopefully take it towards Mars' orbit.

But it is the low cost - brought about through the recovery and reuse of the boosters - that Elon Musk believes will be a game-changer when allied to the new performance.

"It'll be game-over for all other heavy-lift rockets," he told reporters on Monday.

"It'll be like trying to sell an aircraft where one aircraft company has a reusable aircraft and all the other companies had aircraft that were single-use where you would parachute out at your destination and the plane would crash-land randomly somewhere. Crazy as that sounds - that's how the rocket business works.""

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42969020

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #81 on: February 07, 2018, 07:49:30 AM »
I thought I heard them say it was heading to mars. Why? It looks cool and I love the movie Heavy Metal but this just seems silly.

Proof of concept that the Falcon Heavy system can place payloads in a Martian orbit.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2018, 09:05:12 AM »
you can hear those two kids talking about the signal being lost, due perhaps to vibration.

Vibration from hitting the ocean at 500kph.

They should have the Starman visor open up to an animatronic Elvis.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2018, 09:31:04 AM »
Proof of concept that the Falcon Heavy system can place payloads in a Martian orbit.

I'm old enough to remember the Apollo launches (Though I was in bed for 11), and this had the same magnificence. The simultaneous booster landing was incredible. Amazing stuff.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #84 on: February 07, 2018, 09:55:14 AM »
 ;D





Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #85 on: February 07, 2018, 10:54:29 AM »
I'm old enough to remember the Apollo launches (Though I was in bed for 11), and this had the same magnificence. The simultaneous booster landing was incredible. Amazing stuff.
I had the same feeling. Those boosters landing was like something you’d see in a movie.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #86 on: February 07, 2018, 01:39:01 PM »
Proof of concept that the Falcon Heavy system can place payloads in a Martian orbit.

Then why not send something more useful and practical, something they may actually use there?

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #87 on: February 07, 2018, 01:46:48 PM »
It is my belief that the Roadster was sent to Ceres on purpose as a gift, and that there are a shitload of humans on Mars, waiting for the story about "'Murica's Rockets" to become so widespread, that they can then come to Earth and live openly without having to carry some ridiculous sheepdip cover story about how they went to kindergarten at Sandy Hook.

Laugh if you want. An alternative explanation for the mysterious lack of scientific progress in various fields--namely, antigravity and nuclear power--isn't any less inconceivable.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #88 on: February 07, 2018, 01:48:03 PM »
I had the same feeling. Those boosters landing was like something you’d see in a movie.

They don't call them 'stages' for nothing.

Re: The Spaceflight Thread
« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2018, 02:25:39 PM »
Radar, radar, radar...RIDER! 8)