Russia is a threat to our democracy by uncovering how we rigged our democracy

[GravitySucks]

That's a complicated question, as you probably know, but you are using it as some kind of cynical checkmate. What sort of things would you consider worthy of being called an accomplishment? The way you phrase it  you make it seem as though foreign policy is all about trophy hunting when it's going to be much more subtle than that. Was Nixon's visit to China an accomplishment, or did it give legitimacy to a evil regime?  It depends who you ask. Also, Clinton was answerable to people above her, so you can't say that what she did was her own volition, she may have been carrying out the wishes of the president. I'm not a Clinton fan, particularly, but she would have been a tougher challenge for Putin. God knows what you are going to get with Trump. You're going to have to pull  him off Twitter first.

That's ok SV. In 18 months of campaigning, neither she or her supporters could name one either.

She seemed awfully proud of Libya and seeing Khadaffi killed. Now it is an ungoverned launching point for Italy's tourist industry.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clinton-on-qaddafi-we-came-we-saw-he-died/

[K_Dubb]

But grandad never trusted Stalin and certainly wasn't a fanboy

Actually, it's surprising how many of them were charmed by him personally -- easy to understand when he's killing Germans.  Absolute power like that has an undeniable magnetism.

What you get, reading accounts of that time, is a deep sense of moral ambiguity.  We had a pretty good idea what horrors he was perpetrating but dealt with him anyway, even using him (and the Russian people) cynically, in his (and their) view.  I honestly don't know whether this generation is capable of that discrimination.

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3y8ZXG9TqQ

[ItsOver]

I think it was Arsenic and Old Lace, unless there is some kinky version I haven't heard of. Black Lace brings back terrible memories of school discos but it happens to be one of Yorkie's favourites. He can usually be found roaring around the back streets of Doncaster with this blasting from the speakers of his moped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POv-3yIPSWc

LOL.  The ride home is a bitch.

[Lt.Uhura]

Trump has been a businessman for at least 50 years, and a politician for about 18 months.

His primary modus operandi is as a businessman, not a politician. So when your ask yourself why Trump defends his close ties to Russia, simply follow the money. But when looking for political motives within the Trump-Putin relationship, it's obvious that the wily KGB dictator Putin sees Trump as an easy tool to gain power over the U.S., and yes, manipulate our elections. Trump, however, has no fucking idea what he's doing politically.

I think most people overlook Trump's deep financial ties to Russia. Trump may be secretive about his finances to the American public, but there's a good chance Putin knows more about them than we do--and you can be sure he'll use it to his own political advantage.


Q: What about investments from Russia in Trump’s businesses?

A. There is strong evidence that Trump’s businesses have received significant funding from Russian investors. Most notably, Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. made that very claim at a real estate conference in New York in 2008, saying “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.” Donald Trump Jr. added, “we see a lot of money pouring in from Russia."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/heres-what-we-know-about-donald-trump-and-his-ties-to-russia/2016/07/29/1268b5ec-54e7-11e6-88eb-7dda4e2f2aec_story.html

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

i believe Martinez Tonight had a few Russian IP's logged on last night. 

[SredniVashtar]

What you get, reading accounts of that time, is a deep sense of moral ambiguity.  We had a pretty good idea what horrors he was perpetrating but dealt with him anyway, even using him (and the Russian people) cynically, in his (and their) view.  I honestly don't know whether this generation is capable of that discrimination.

Sydney and Beatrice Webb of the Fabian Society wrote a book about Soviet Communism called 'A New Civilisation?' When it came to be reprinted it lost the question mark.

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/emails-show-clinton-ties-to-russian-oligarch-under-investigation/article/2601514

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

https://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Russian_mission_On_Fundraising_Letter_from_John_McCain_Election_Campaign,_20_Oct_2008

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

Hey! The limeys are here! Care to meet me in the kitchen for some Arsenic and Black Lace?

Edit. Oops. Never mind. Football time!

I hope you're talking about real football and not that namby pamby, no contact allowed limey football. And when you make them those wretched little cucumber sandwiches of which they seem to be so fond, be a dear and cut the crusts off so they won't be whinging about it.

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

I hope you're talking about real football and not that namby pamby, no contact allowed limey football. And when you make them those wretched little cucumber sandwiches of which they seem to be so fond, be a dear and cut the crusts off so they won't be whinging about it.

Australian football was a mystery to me until it was given a simple analogy to me from a host family i was staying with in Perth. it was explained as a combination of football (American), basketball, rugby, and boxing. 

[SredniVashtar]

I hope you're talking about real football and not that namby pamby, no contact allowed limey football. And when you make them those wretched little cucumber sandwiches of which they seem to be so fond, be a dear and cut the crusts off so they won't be whinging about it.

If you're thinking of fucking off any time soon, then I'd just like to give the scheme my full approval. Yes, football that actually uses feet and doesn't involving dressing up like teletubbies in crash helmets. And nothing ever, ever bloody happens in that sodding game. I remember reading a study that found that anyone who likes American Football is a hopeless wanker. I'm just reporting the facts here.

Your remarks about cucumber sandwiches are beneath contempt, you burger chomping butt-muncher.

[mikuthing01]

i believe Martinez Tonight had a few Russian IP's logged on last night. 

[Lt.Uhura]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/emails-show-clinton-ties-to-russian-oligarch-under-investigation/article/2601514

Isn't Googling fun! 

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/donald-trump-russia-vladimir-putin

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

If you're thinking of fucking off any time soon, then I'd just like to give the scheme my full approval. Yes, football that actually uses feet and doesn't involving dressing up like teletubbies in crash helmets. And nothing ever, ever bloody happens in that sodding game. I remember reading a study that found that anyone who likes American Football is a hopeless wanker. I'm just reporting the facts here.

Your remarks about cucumber sandwiches are beneath contempt, you burger chomping butt-muncher.

I'd rather watch paint dry than waste a couple of the precious hours I have left to me trying not to nod off while a bunch of pansies in short pants run up and down the pitch or whatever you call it until time mercifully runs out, and the score most likely ends in a tie of nil to fucking nil. Jeez, why can't you people say "zero" like everyone else.

And I knew you'd whinge about the cucumber sandwiches. What's the matter? Did the little ladies forget to remove those dreadful crusts?

[SredniVashtar]

I'd rather watch paint dry than waste a couple of the precious hours I have left to me trying not to nod off while a bunch of pansies in short pants run up and down the pitch or whatever you call it until time mercifully runs out, and the score most likely ends in a tie of nil to fucking nil. Jeez, why can't you people say "zero" like everyone else.

And I knew you'd whinge about the cucumber sandwiches. What's the matter? Did the little ladies forget to remove those dreadful crusts?

I don't think they are going to let you anywhere near a paintbrush in that assisted living establishment of yours. You probably don't like anything anyway, unless it's another Matlock marathon, or you get a chance to throw something at a few passing schoolkids. The word 'nil' comes from the Latin for 'nothing'. Not that I'd expect you to know anything about languages, ancient or modern, you unlettered ignoramus.

A cucumber sandwich should be so thin you can see through it, and so light that it might flutter away in a strong breeze. Which means no crusts. I know this is hard to understand for someone whose idea of a fine dining experience is Wings Wednesday at One-Eyed Willie's Chicken Shack.

[Yorkshire pud]

I hold you both in deep absolute contempt, so don't expect me to split up your spat. Having to deal with Daniel and Mike with a Y is one thing, but splitting two unconvincing transvestites up is whole new barrel of haddock. One I'm not going to attempt.

[Juan]

No they didn't. They said the opposite to Bush.

Not according to Bob Woodward
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/18/woodward.book/

[Yorkshire pud]

Not according to Bob Woodward

Well according to the former head of the CIA they did. He said it on camera.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

I hold you both in deep absolute contempt, so don't expect me to split up your spat. Having to deal with Daniel and Mike with a Y is one thing, but splitting two unconvincing transvestites up is whole new barrel of haddock. One I'm not going to attempt.

Shouldn't you be off sniffing the queen or overboiling some bangers?

[Yorkshire pud]

Shouldn't you be off sniffing the queen or overboiling some bangers?

I do that anyway. You HAVE that video.

[SredniVashtar]

Shouldn't you be off sniffing the queen or overboiling some bangers?

You bloody lot, going on about the Queen all the time when we know you're just jealous. Anyway, I'd rather have a Queen then be one, you pirouetting, pansy boy snowflake ponce!

[Dr. MD MD]

Just when I think I'm done with the Politics threads they pull me back in. I feel compelled to respond to this. And to be clear, if I haven't already, I don't like Donald or Hillary. I was a Bernie supporter and voted for him in the Primary but voted for Hillary in the General because I consider Donald a sociopath, liar and dangerous.

let's assume the Russians did hack the DNC (I'm still not convinced but it makes no difference)
I'm curious what would convince you this isn't made up? The concerted effort of our combined intelligence agencies say they have a high confidence level in their findings and conclusions. They prepare a 50 page report citing this evidence and appear in front of Congress to testify to the validity of their findings. A filtered report for public consumption will be published Monday.  What more would it take to make you trust our own intelligence agencies in this matter? If you won't or can't believe them should we just disband them and go with Trump's gut?

.. all they did was essentially what Snowden did ...
In my opinion Snowden is a patriot and a hero. However if he returned to the U.S. he would be arrested. But for Russia doing "essentially" the same thing, no problem.  Snowden's intention was to reveal what he considered unethical and overreaching activities by our government. Russia's intention was to make the American people lose confidence in the democratic voting process and to sway public opinion toward Putin's candidate of choice.

Is it ok if Russia or any other country or terrorist group invades American systems private or public? Power grids, Corporate proprietary data, New York Stock Exchange, Aviation traffic control? In your opinion when does this reach the level of cyber warfare?

You know who controls the media to get what they want? Dictators. ...
Yes. Like Putin. Who Trump admires and gives an A in Leadership.  Mr. Trump who has not held a press conference since July. Which are specifically held so the free press can ask questions. Trump who called out and intimidated members of the free press at his rallies. Who generalizes the entire free press as "dishonest" and liars.

You should just raise your own army and go fight him yourself. pud will join you. He knows how to fire a gun. 

[Dr. MD MD]

Where they expose corruption, leaks are an unequivocal good.  The idea that Russia can do us a favor is disturbing only to those stuck in a white-hat/black-hat world who have forgotten the moral agility that allowed their grandfathers to make peace with Stalin.

Anybody who doesn't get a chill upon realizing that Putin preferred our current President-elect is an idiot, though.

So, he preferred someone willing to approach detente rather than a psychotic, hawkish cunt. This makes hm the new Hitler in your mind?!   

[Dr. MD MD]

No they didn't. They said the opposite to Bush.

Source?

[Dr. MD MD]

That's a complicated question, as you probably know, but you are using it as some kind of cynical checkmate. What sort of things would you consider worthy of being called an accomplishment? The way you phrase it  you make it seem as though foreign policy is all about trophy hunting when it's going to be much more subtle than that. Was Nixon's visit to China an accomplishment, or did it give legitimacy to a evil regime?  It depends who you ask. Also, Clinton was answerable to people above her, so you can't say that what she did was her own volition, she may have been carrying out the wishes of the president. I'm not a Clinton fan, particularly, but she would have been a tougher challenge for Putin. God knows what you are going to get with Trump. You're going to have to pull  him off Twitter first.

So, in other words, you got nuthin! 

[Dr. MD MD]

Trump has been a businessman for at least 50 years, and a politician for about 18 months.

His primary modus operandi is as a businessman, not a politician. So when your ask yourself why Trump defends his close ties to Russia, simply follow the money. But when looking for political motives within the Trump-Putin relationship, it's obvious that the wily KGB dictator Putin sees Trump as an easy tool to gain power over the U.S., and yes, manipulate our elections. Trump, however, has no fucking idea what he's doing politically.

I think most people overlook Trump's deep financial ties to Russia. Trump may be secretive about his finances to the American public, but there's a good chance Putin knows more about them than we do--and you can be sure he'll use it to his own political advantage.


Q: What about investments from Russia in Trump’s businesses?

A. There is strong evidence that Trump’s businesses have received significant funding from Russian investors. Most notably, Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. made that very claim at a real estate conference in New York in 2008, saying “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.” Donald Trump Jr. added, “we see a lot of money pouring in from Russia."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/heres-what-we-know-about-donald-trump-and-his-ties-to-russia/2016/07/29/1268b5ec-54e7-11e6-88eb-7dda4e2f2aec_story.html

Russia, Russia, Russia!

[Dr. MD MD]

Well according to the former head of the CIA they did. He said it on camera.

Oh yeah! Must be true then. No doubt!  :

[K_Dubb]

So, he preferred someone willing to approach detente rather than a psychotic, hawkish cunt. This makes hm the new Hitler in your mind?!   

We can only hope his peace with Russia is as productive as Hitler's.

[=Schlyder=]

what about the millions$ and millions from the Saudis, and George Soros?   I guess those millions aren't influencing anything?  LOL